Super Mario 3D World for Wii U
- Thread starter Darklord
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Freezie KO
Banned
It's not a port, but it's a direct sequel. Those of us hoping for something actually new (not just with "new" in the title) are going to be disappointed.
You use the word "return" three times in a list of features designed to show the game isn't a rehash. And you could've used it two more times if that's how you chose to describe the multiplayer and SMB2 characters.
But look at the other stuff you're trumpeting. 60 FPS? Is that what passes as a gameplay innovation these days? I'd rather have a more original game in 30FPS.
The optional 4 player mode that is entirely useless to a large swath of 3D Mario players (made moreso because Nintendo can't figure out how to put it online)?
4 different characters? Wow. It's like I was playing SMB2 only yesterday.
A new suit? Sure. It adds some new mechanics, but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as differentiation goes. No previous 3D Mario debuting on a console had to point out a new suit so you'd know it wasn't port.
This is a paltry list of gameplay tweaks. Not the brand new, mind-blowing Mario game that we're used to seeing on a new home console. The question shouldn't be why we're disappointed, the question should be why aren't you? Shouldn't this series have higher standards than "it's got a new suit"?
Did we know all Mario Galaxy's features at this point? Why is it alright to state a game is unimaginative/rehash at this point when we know practically nothing
Freezie KO
Banned
It's the first 3D Mario to debut on a home console that is a direct sequel. We know a lot about the core gameplay mechanics, the level design, (boxy but more vertical), Mario's moves, etc.
It's daft to say we know "practically nothing." Nobody saw Galaxy 2 or NSMBU and said, "We have no clue how this will play!"
Yet unlike the previous game, it features Mario carrying things that aren't shells. It features moves we've never heard of. Gameplay of previous games have also never been much of a change. Galaxy was still the same, just with planetary bodies and a camera that doesn't follow behind Mario all the time creating an illusion of difference.
Thrillhouse
Member
Why co-op? It doesn't even make sense in a Mario game? There are no obstacles in Mario games that benefit from being more than one player, quite the contrary actually, you will only get in each other's way.
The main problem is that a lot of people is saying that, because it is a sequel to 3D Land, it's a reash/small budget/uninteresting game
This is a game Nintendo is putting effort and new elements in, also if it's following 3D Land core mechanics. And it's quite safe (already judging from the demo) that some of the previous mechanics will be enanched in this 3D World episode.
Plus, other people are ditching it asking for Galaxy3, accusing this to be a reash while it's the "second" episode, rather than a third one (following Galaxy brand); and that they are also confusing the Galaxy scale and scope in terms of level size, calling it epic and explorative, while Galaxy was the first step into a more streamlined structure of levels (that was even more underlined in Galaxy 2, and 3D Land)
so I think that everyone is free to say his opinion, and of course those looking for an open world Mario will be disappointed, as the ones looking for something totally new.
Considering how Sunshin was open world and new, and how I didn't like it, while Galaxy 2 was a sequel and streamlined and I loved it a lot, I'm happy about this approach.
I think that the most important thing is not to indicate this game as a mediocre game just because it's not the Mario someone wanted (as DKCTropical Freeze is not a "low budget game", because it's not Metroid)
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Why on earth do people think some fictional "open world" Mario would be better than a series of tightly focused closed off levels?
Well, opinions. Probably based on the "wow" factor Mario64 had.
To me, as I stated before, a more streamlined structure like the one introduced by Galaxy (and enphasized by Galaxy 2 and 3D Land) is better. I like it more.
Freezie KO
Banned
Mario could carry springs, boxes, and more in previous games. There's the cat suit, and what other new moves?
Galaxy wasn't the same at all. The simple addition of the twirl added new combat and new platforming options by giving you a second jump, essentally. The game introduced the "disconnected worlds" theme, gravity mechanics were new, sling stars, dynamic shifts between 2D and 3D, several new suits, and more.
I only speak for myself, not people. "Rehash" is in degrees. This game is not a port. But as a direct sequel, it's the least interesting 3D Mario to ever debut on a home console. If you told me I'd be disappointed in the mainline 3D Mario before E3, I would've been shocked.
I'm not asking for Galaxy 3 (although I would've preferred it to this). I wanted something new. I don't know if they could've made open world work. I wasn't asking for anything specific except for "it feels new". That's their job to figure out how to get that done. But this definitely doesn't feel new to me.
I don't think the game will be "mediocre" either. It'll be fun. But I held this series to a higher standard than simply "fun." 3D Mario used to be something special. Now it's not. Now it's like 2D Mario.
And if we're digressing to Retro, my personal preference was:
something new > DKC > Metroid
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Okay, so are we talking about a series of open worlds? A hub? Because Super Mario Galaxy 2 proved that's entirely superfluous. I'm not asking you, as you've said you've preferred the structure. I just detest the idea that an open world is some untraveled method of innovation, because we have plenty open world games out there that are just boring with nothing to do inside the space. It's not an automatic "Wow" factor.
Dion Blaster
Member
I loved Galaxy, but what was great at all about sling stars? They're essentially a version of that teleporting box in 3D Land that takes more time, and that you have to shake to activate.
Also, did anyone attempt to long jump in the demos? Did it go further than the long jumps in 3D Land? Or is it being phased out in favor of simply running and jumping a la 2D Mario? I could see them doing that since long jump is the signature move (imo) of 3D Mario, and they want to add more 2D elements into the core of the game.
Also, did anyone attempt to long jump in the demos? Did it go further than the long jumps in 3D Land? Or is it being phased out in favor of simply running and jumping a la 2D Mario? I could see them doing that since long jump is the signature move (imo) of 3D Mario, and they want to add more 2D elements into the core of the game.
Because it's not more of the same kind of Mario people have been playing for 15 years
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Neither is 3D World.
Well, it's funny because 3D World is guilty to be "the same" and "not the same" at...the same time! ;p
Freezie KO
Banned
When I talk about liking "sling stars", I mean the blue ones that you can drag Mario with using the pointer. They were used well in The Perfect Run, and I feel they still have untapped potential (much like Yoshi's pointer-based tongue).
I don't mean the orange shaking stars. Maybe I'm using the wrong term for the different stars.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I guess people say it looks like a glorified 3DS game. And I really wish it was a 3DS game, because I want to play 3D World and I don't want to shell out for a Wii U
D.Lo
Member
Not just yourself, but this is a common argument in this thread by defenders.
What you're really saying here is that you're basing your judgement on hope, whereas those who say it looks very dissapointing are basing their judgement on evidence.
"It will probably get a lot better" is no defence for what we've already been shown.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
This is NeoG... you get it. It's a trope I more commonly thought of with Zelda fans in mind to be honest. But people said similar things about 3D Land if memory serves.
Please...
It's not that the ones who like it are delusional while the ones who dislike it are right.
A lot of people is saying that we already saw new elements, good level design, bigger levels than the 3DLand ones, new suit, new exploration mechanics, new gameplay
mechanics. And those people are liking those things.
Other are sayng that yes, there are those things, but it's too similar to 3DLand, who cares about multiplayer, it's not open world. And are not liking those things.
Exactly how I feel, down to the letter.
...because people were expecting it to be the AAA top tier blockbuster Mario that pushes the system technically, justifies the system and excites the core..like Mario Galaxy.
..but it's not. It seems like a very safe, low budget HD game..
..and once again they don't even go that litttle bit further to throw a bone to their core ...
...and have online multiplayer.
I'd have played Wii Sports, Nintendoland and new Super Mario Bros 10 times as much with an online mode.
It doesn't bode well for the future either..I won't be surprised if Wii Sports U is once again offline only.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
People verbally masturbate with this phrase so much that I've forgotten it's meaning entirely. Please elaborate, how are they not throwing a bone to their precious hardcore audience?
I respect opinion, but once again this is the kind of comment I can't understand.
because it's not structured as you want, it's a cheap HD port of a 3ds game.
aaaaall right.
what about no?
it it built on Wii U hardware using its technology. It's not that because it's a sequel, they are using 3DS engine...the high resolution screen are simply very good, it's not that because of the lack of realistic texture, is another world compared to MarioKart8 (that everyone is loving for that, imho)
they already showed a lot of new elements developed from zero
they already showed use for the gamepad that at least is on par with Galaxy use of remote controller
they are developing a proper multiplayer aspect for the game, unlike galaxy (that had just that useless pointer-control for P2), but it's not online so even if it's way more articulated and complex compared to galaxy, it's somehow less important
..because they are not including online multiplayer. As an adult without children I find it damn hard to get anyone else to actively want to play a Mario platformer offline. I can just about get them to play Mario Kart now and again..and maybe Wii Sports/Nintendland at a party a few times a year....but that's about it
If it had online multiplayer I'd get vastly more use out of the game. Same with all these games that Nintendo puts no effort into putting online. I'd still be playting Wii Sports Resort today if they'd had online sword fighting tournaments.
Nintendo are putting more effort into getting their 3DS games online than the Wii U.
I didn't say it was a cheap HD port...I said it seems like a safe, low budget game...based on first impressions...and first impressions count.
Freezie KO
Banned
It really disappoints me that I will never get to play Pikmin 3's multiplayer mode. I miss college.
What I hope Nintendo is doing is that, this game (3D World) may have had its roots as a 3DS sequel, then (quickly?) ported to or rebuilt for Wii U for extra power to/or to accomplish certain things (4-player Co-Op) plus to fill in that "3D Mario" gap, then next year release the "Galaxy 3 / Mario 64 2 (3?)" that will feature the traditional feeling of the past 3D Mario games post 64.
I really want a game similar to Galaxy 1 where there is a hub world (hopefully as big or bigger than Sunshine's) and individual levels like the Galaxy series + the many missions per stage as Super Mario 64.
Would be great in my opinion. But is that something that is currently happening? Is 3D World the once per generation 3D Mario game for Wii U? (even though Galaxy 2 broke that trend) Maybe. But who knows.
I really want a game similar to Galaxy 1 where there is a hub world (hopefully as big or bigger than Sunshine's) and individual levels like the Galaxy series + the many missions per stage as Super Mario 64.
Would be great in my opinion. But is that something that is currently happening? Is 3D World the once per generation 3D Mario game for Wii U? (even though Galaxy 2 broke that trend) Maybe. But who knows.
Would be great in my opinion. But is that something that is currently happening? Is 3D World the once per generation 3D Mario game for Wii U? (even though Galaxy 2 broke that trend) Maybe. But who knows.
I think there will be two considering that like Galaxy, SM3DW is coming in the first year(ish) of the system's life (and will be an absolutely amazing game in it's own right). The next game will be a more traditional single-player 3D Mario... except it won't be traditional at all! The hub world, will be THE world. A huge, lush open-world, with the mushroom kingdom right in the middle. The game design will be something between OOT and Mario 64. 120 stars spread throughout the world, light RPG elements, epic bosses, locales and seamless landscapes full of platforming bliss and adventure. Mario will collect items and power-ups that will be permanently added to his quest inventory, among them will be the Warp Whistle that eliminates any worry of travel becoming tedious. Toot on the whistle and (♫ do do dooo - do do doo ♫
a whirlwind appears and engulfs Mario, the world map pops up and you choose where you want to go. The game will be directed by Yoshiaki Koizumi and will be called Super Mario Adventure. It releases in November of 2015.Those are pull stars. Sling stars are the ones that sling you. Pull stars were the least interesting part of Galaxy, imo. They were new, yeah, but pointing at each one wasn't as engaging as some normal Mario gameplay could have been.
Despite my relatively high enthusiasm for Super Mario 3D World when it comes to its gameplay (compared to many on Gaf at least) I also can't shake the feeling that they should have released this for the 3DS as a direct sequel Super Mario 3D Land instead.
That would have offered a more consistent Mario experience on that platform while opening them up for something entirly fresh for the Wii U, maybe a game that - in the tradition of Super Mario 64 - would define the Wii U gamepad experience when it comes to controls, and/or that had a fresh new art style etc.
Nevertheless, as said, I feel hopeful that the game will turn out fine, especially after hearing one of the EAD members say that this game to him feels like a culmination of all the 3D mario games.
On a sidenote: I also wonder to what degree our sentiments would have been different if the game would offer an over the shoulder type of camera setting during single player (which it might in the final version, who knows). Would this make us see the game in a more positive light, or is it the very design of the world itself that feels less epic to us (i.e. the floating obstacle courses instead of a fully realized Mushroom Kingdom - which for me is certainly a reason for my decreased enthusiasm)?
That would have offered a more consistent Mario experience on that platform while opening them up for something entirly fresh for the Wii U, maybe a game that - in the tradition of Super Mario 64 - would define the Wii U gamepad experience when it comes to controls, and/or that had a fresh new art style etc.
Nevertheless, as said, I feel hopeful that the game will turn out fine, especially after hearing one of the EAD members say that this game to him feels like a culmination of all the 3D mario games.
On a sidenote: I also wonder to what degree our sentiments would have been different if the game would offer an over the shoulder type of camera setting during single player (which it might in the final version, who knows). Would this make us see the game in a more positive light, or is it the very design of the world itself that feels less epic to us (i.e. the floating obstacle courses instead of a fully realized Mushroom Kingdom - which for me is certainly a reason for my decreased enthusiasm)?
GAF A60-Rim A
Banned
Just a question, but doesn't your scenario suggest THREE 3D Mario games? What's to stop there being a third game in reality - a novel Wii U experience?
So instead of:
SM3DL (2011, 3DS)
SM3DW (2013, 3DS)
SMU (2015, Wii U)
It's:
SM3DL (2011, 3DS)
SM3DW (2013, Wii U)
SMU (2015, Wii U)
I know patience is not common on GAF, but let's give Nintendo some slack here - maybe they're trying to make their Super Mario Universe console experience more accessible and worth the investment, with the bridge titles leading up to it.
GAF is not the general population.
That's why he said "here".
This game just looks fun to play and that's all that matters.
Instead of spheres, it's cubes. Big deal. From the few levels we saw I see as much creativity in level design as Super Mario Galaxy. It's just not as visually arresting. The cat suit looks like one of the best power-ups in recent memory altering fundamentally the gameplay, transparent pipes seem very fun and 4 players 3D platformer has never been attempted before. Who cares about epic stuff. The only flaws in SM3DL were the difficulty level and levels recycling. Other than that it was genuinely as entertaining as the Super Mario Galaxy series.
In EAD Tokyo we trust.
Instead of spheres, it's cubes. Big deal. From the few levels we saw I see as much creativity in level design as Super Mario Galaxy. It's just not as visually arresting. The cat suit looks like one of the best power-ups in recent memory altering fundamentally the gameplay, transparent pipes seem very fun and 4 players 3D platformer has never been attempted before. Who cares about epic stuff. The only flaws in SM3DL were the difficulty level and levels recycling. Other than that it was genuinely as entertaining as the Super Mario Galaxy series.
In EAD Tokyo we trust.
What he's getting at is that it IS relatively 'safe', because the general public loved SM3DL and bought it in droves, so producing a sequel to that is 'safe', something familiar to the general public, that they liked.
A completely different Mario with a unique theme/setting like Sunshine or Galaxy might not appeal to those that bought SM3DL.
It is new. And old. It is a Mario Best of. Certainly not a Mario Land rehash, which was the point of the member I was responding to. The facts I gave show it as it is.
I can hardly believe I'm reading this. Listen people, 60fps, multiplayer support and having 4 different jumping characteristics (and new: different running speed) is nothing, because no matter how awesome this last feature is, it was partly done in another 2D game 20 years ago.
New suits have always been anticipated and discussed in Mario games. This one happens to be more ambitious than previous ones. Of course we shall discuss it.
It has all Mario Galaxy move sets + a new running boost + ability to grab and throw things. It has more move sets than any previous 3D Mario game, with 4 different jumping mechanics. It extends camera control to new heights. This is your definition of paltry gameplay tweaks?
Being among the top 10 posters in a >3000 posts thread for a game you have no interest in is weird enough. Your belief the whole internet thinks like you ("we're disappointed) is weird again. But the palm goes to your question about how people can be excited about this Mario. How can this be?!? Seriously.
4 levels preview, a full list of new features already unveiled. Reread the post you responded to, your narrative is erronous.
Spieler Eins
Member
Because before this mess, this series has been more than ,,well at least it's gonna be fun''. Alongside that, it brought gameplay innovation and demonstrated what a new system is capable of. Sunshine was rushed, but still at least try to live up to the series' legacy. Now on their first HD hardware we get some souped up version of a ~1 year old 3DS game. And some multiplayer thrown in, clearly only because it has already worked with NSMB. This is some Call of Duty level of shit.
It's even worse, because outside of W101, Nintendo will not deliver a single game in the whole first year of the WiiU, that doesn't feel like it couldn't have been possible on previous hardware. This game is not only lacklustre on it's own, but also demonstrates the incompetence of the higher ups handling this console in general and foreshadows a grim future for the whole system. (If that wasn't already obvious enough after last year, but after this E3 it's pretty much confirmed)
Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but just in case: what I meant was that they could have developed 3D World for the 3DS and a new 3D Mario game exclusively for Wii U. Preferably doing the Wii U game first and 3DS game second (maybe as a cherry on top of the 3DS pie towards the end of its active lifecycle).
I'm not trying to sound impatient by any means, and I still look forward to playing 3D World for sure. It's only that in the current situation in which the Wii U needs fresh new gameplay experiences to sell people on it, the decision to first release a fourth New Mario Bros. game and then follow that up with a game that, to many (but not me personally per se), seems very much like 3D Land, is possibly not the best idea. People do happen to look to the Mario series to carry the Nintendo brand into the future, so ANY game that they make will be scrutinized from top to bottom. In that sense, there is indeed no safe choice, not even if they had announced a revolutionairy open world 3D platformer or something.
As in other cases though: I will await final judgement until I can try out the game itself and will remain cautiously optimistic about it in the mean time. In addition I will also continue to look forward to their next Mario project, on Wii U or elsewhere, regardless of how innovative/fun this latest game turns out to be.
Edit:
So to put my original preference of releasing 3D World for 3DS in a list:
SM3DL (2011, 3DS)
SMU (2013/2014, Wii U)
SM3DW (2014/2015, 3DS)
(I do wonder though if Nintendo really is developing an even more ambitious Wii U Mario game apart from 3D World. Not that I wouldn't be interested, but isn't that just a form of wishful thinking from the people that were disappointed in 3D World?)
it could be risky in the general population, too.
it risks cannibalizing itself with the 3DS title, 3D Land. personally, i don't think nintendo has any risk whatsoever going up against the PS4/XB1. i think their biggest competition is themselves. they need to show why customers should purchase a Wii U over a 3DS. why purchase 3D World over 3D Land. why purchase DK:TF over DK:R 3D? why purchase NSMB:U over NSMB:2? for the average person, these games are going to look very familiar. add in things like Pokemon and Animal Crossing and it's very clear what the best value proposition is. the Wii and DS were two completely different beasts which had much different hit games. 3DS and Wii U? not so much at first glance, especially since it is so hard to communicate the value of the tablet controller. it requires a deeper understanding of the two platforms then most people who haven't bought them will take the time to understand.
the greatest asset the wii u has? the 4/5-player local multiplayer. they've gone and rooted the greatest difference their game has to its competition in a specific social behavior. nintendo needs people to visit each others houses to play games to get the full effect - that is a risky phenomenon. i don't personally see many of my friends visiting each others houses. thanks to stuff like facebook and smartphones, people tend to meet more out and about. it could play in reverse as well, with those technologies increasing the phenomenon. who knows, but it is certainly not safe. anyone calling these games safe doesn't understand what safe means.
Appealing to the masses and trying to push more consoles is a much smarter decision than trying to create a grand 3D Mario for the core. I can only hope this turns out like Call Of Duty because despite the rehashing and regurgitating, it satiates it's fans and it's very successful.
If you aren't excited about the game, that is fine - but I think that is a really BIG step to insinuate that they have no idea what the best games are to develop for the system.
EAD Tokyo is setting the agenda, I believe, and everything they have touched has been great. There will probably be tons of things and ideas that never would have fit into the 3DS game, but even if it could have been an uglier Wii game - so what? This is only the second iteration on a theme two years later (much like Galaxy 2) and no where near "some Call of Duty level of shit."
Simmer down now...
Spieler Eins
Member
It would just make things worse, really. Because if this was the case, EAD Tokyo will solely be the Mario team forever. And it further confirms the ridiculous angst Iwata and his friends have, if they couldn't even finally grant a single wish of their fans and turn this dumb cat mechanic into a new character, if a ,,real'' Mario is in development anyway and the rest of the lineup already consists of lazy looking safe bets all over the place too.
But it's on new hardware and certainly not tailored to the WiiU like Mario64 was to the N64, or Galaxy to the Wii, etc if they just recycle the 3D Land concept. I don't see how it would have had the same amount of poor reception if 3D World came to the 3DS.
They already pissed off their core fans with this launch window fiasco, a shitty VC relaunch and more. The casuals didn't bite for karaoke, Brain Training 3D or NSMBU. So who do they have left, if they keep rehashing what non-gamers/casuals once enjoyed instead of catering to some more dedicated gamers in at least a couple of games? Instead of copying the same shit from the previous gen (Or 3D Land, because finally some NSMB fans in Japan were attracted by it), they should at least try something new for the ,,casuals'' too - I mean, do even hobby gamers understand why anyone would need that fucking 100$ controller?
3DS isn't doing phenomenal like the DS, but considering they are now delivering what fans would expect from a good Nintendo, it at least does okay. WiiU will never get there, if they continue like this. (Not to mention if they keep their shitty marketing in which the only proper WiiU projects like W101 and X are ignored, but that's a different topic)
Isn't that like saying NSMB Wii was risky? It looks similar to the DS game, so why buy it? Obviously, NSMBW was a pretty safe game, and it sold a heap, leading to two more 'safe' sequels. That's what Nintendo is doing with the Wii U. Making sequels to successful games. Mario Kart, DKC, 3D World, they're all sequels to very popular games that offer a slight twist, but don't stray far from the formula. Whether you think that's a good business strategy or not, it's 'playing it safe', in that they're not changing it up too much.
by the time NSMB: Wii released, both the DS console and the Wii console had already reached their climax in sales. it didn't really change much. the two consoles were in completely different environments with completely different system sellers.
you wanted a Wii? you got your Smash Brothers, Mario Galaxy, and Wii Sports.
you wanted a DS? you got your Pokemon, NSMB, and Nintendogs
now the lines are being blurred. both platforms are getting the same games now. even Smash Brothers is coming to both platforms. it isn't the same business move they've done before. they're cannibalizing themselves. you mean risky in a creative sense. they aren't being very risky in a creative sense at all, which is risky in a business sense. that's the part that i'm talking about here.
Ah ok, gotcha. I kinda agree actually. They need a 'system seller.' Something to make the console stand out, to give people a reason to buy it. I'm not sure 3D World will do that, since it's so similar to 3D Land. But I guess we'll see in December.