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[astraycat]

A. Because that's not what people are used to and that would still make used game sales and rentals nigh impossible.
B. Because there wasn't originally going to be on-disc licensing period.

I mis-worded it. What I meant to say that it would require new, additional engineering to change their disc process. It seems much easier to make their software ignore the on-disc licensing.

To address (A) I'm not sure I understand. What I was saying that instead of engineering a physical on-disc licensing solution in the first place (back when they were on the DRM trail), they could have just gone with the tried and true key-in-the-box solution. Hell, they could have made it a QR code for the Kinnect to scan. It seems like a lot less work than some sort of physically-based solution.

 

[Bornstellar]

Damn, dude:



That is AFTER they clarified on:


So to do "the things Microsoft described today" (just in case you missed it, that was reversing DRM), it requires a Day 1 patch. The better question is... how many times do you need it repeated before you understand it?

Here's GAF's entire discussion on this in thread form:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596751

Now quit being so shilly.

Spoiler

Badum-Tsh

It will be required for playing the console period, but it will not set some timer to infinite has many people seem to think. And I would like to think that most people would be above accusing others of being shills, but whatever float your boat. Yeah, I'm doing an internship here, that certainly doesn't mean I like everything they do.

I mis-worded it. What I meant to say that it would require new, additional engineering to change their disc process. It seems much easier to make their software ignore the on-disc licensing.

To address (A) I'm not sure I understand. What I was saying that instead of engineering a physical on-disc licensing solution in the first place (back when they were on the DRM trail), they could have just gone with the tried and true key-in-the-box solution. Hell, they could have made it a QR code for the Kinnect to scan. It seems like a lot less work than some sort of physically-based solution.

Like I said, there never was an on-disc licensing solution previously. Who's to say it wasn't going to be a key in the box?

 

[Hooflung128]

Incredibly unprofessional of them.

They just lost thier reputation on by resorting to fanboy bullshit.

Should they dismiss the fact that drm was being pushed, regardless of 180?
Should they dismiss the "subject to change" button ms loves to flaunt?
Should they dismiss the fact the system is 100 dollars more with an accessory many do not want?
Should they dismiss the fact that it has been years since MS has actually delivered a single god damn franchise game that wasnt mediocre to god damn awful?
Should they dismiss the fact that ms, in their profound gamer utopia was ready to cut off American soldiers from dt gaming?
Should they dismiss the fact that tv is something no one asked for yet is a core design feature? A feature that only works in 'merica?
Should they dismiss the fact that every first party game shown at their show is not system seller material?

I mean come the fuck on dude. I got the 360 man, on my second one in fact, with a bucket load of games. I have two original xboxes and a well fleshed out library for it too. But Microsoft might as well cut their right leg off in this console race for next gen. Should media outlets spin what we've seen over the course of April to e3 in a positive light towards the Xbox brand? I thought it was supposed to be about the games man.... Right...?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It will be required for playing the console period, but it will not set some timer to infinite has many people seem to think. And I would like to think that most people would be above accusing others of being shills, but whatever float your boat. Yeah, I'm doing an internship here, that certainly doesn't mean I like everything they do.



Like I said, there never was an on-disc licensing solution previously. Who's to say it wasn't going to be a key in the box?

Are you interning as an engineer on the Xbox One or something?

How do you know the software update isn't removing the call-home requirement?

More importantly, why does it matter what the original intentions of the patch were when the end result is the same?

 

[Jack_AG]

It will be required for playing the console period, but it will not set some timer to infinite has many people seem to think.

Reply to what I am telling you. Don't spin your BS failing argument because of a "timer". Nobody knows the exact method to disable online requirements - other people were merely guessing. I even mentioned this to you earlier and you STILL ignored it and went on your crusade defending what you THINK (more like wish) MS said.

Here I am, linking you shit straight from the horse's mouth you are saying isn't happening.

Drop the shovel and go home, man. Stop digging. You're done. Even AFTER a clarification MS still says the patch is to enable offline play but added some fluff BS because "oh... Oh yeah... It really is meant for other stuff we had planned all along"

Riiiiiiight.

 

[astraycat]

Like I said, there never was an on-disc licensing solution previously. Who's to say it wasn't going to be a key in the box?

Nevermind, you've completely lost me.

Your original quote was this:

False - this is due to a required day one patch which has no bearing on the DRM policies of the system. Like I said, previously licenses were assigned to users for all game purchases. Now, disc based purchases have licenses tied to the disc. That is NOT a software change. That is a very real, and very hard physical change to what gets written on the disc, and how the system must respond to a disc.

What I assumed was that you assumed that the original method (licenses were assigned to all users) was that there was some physically based method on disc, which would require a physical change for removal.

A license is not a physical thing. It's a software construct. Both of those methods you mentioned are completely implemented in software -- there would be no change required to the disc itself. What do you imagine would change on the disc?

 

[Jack_AG]

Are you interning as an engineer on the Xbox One or something?

How do you know the software update isn't removing the call-home requirement?

More importantly, why does it matter what the original intentions of the patch were when the end result is the same?

It is to remove the call home. I linked it earlier but dudebro intern doesn't care for facts.

 

[kaching]

False - this is due to a required day one patch which has no bearing on the DRM policies of the system. Like I said, previously licenses were assigned to users for all game purchases. Now, disc based purchases have licenses tied to the disc. That is NOT a software change. That is a very real, and very hard physical change to what gets written on the disc, and how the system must respond to a disc.

They can still choose to write whatever the hell they want on the disc and alter how the system responds to that info at any time.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

This long ass thread is probably one of the reasons Edge had this cover.

 

[aceldama]

It was in an interview, they refused (yes refused) to confirm that the policies wouldn't change back.

That is a pathetic assumption, just to think that because they are protecting their future business options, they have an underhanded plan all along. They would be stupid to guarantee something like that for the future, and it doesn't speak to the company at all.

I am not saying it won't happen, but you are a lot closer to implying it WILL happen.

 

[Biker19]

I don't recall you shitting on Sony because $599 and Blu-ray trojan horse. Why is that?

Prices of consoles can always be lowered. DRM/Anti-used games is an entirely different thing.

So, let's get this straight.

-Microsoft announces a console that locks your games to their online service. They can only be played if you're online.
-They try to kill the used games market.
-They force a camera that most don't want, don't care and that is constantly on.
-They overprice the console a full 100 dollars/euros than it's superior competitor.
-They insult gamers everywhere with every single piece of PR.

They made the most cowardly U-turn after sseing how badly the xbone pre-orders were, remove most of the draconian features, but also remove most of the benefits that it was supposed to have.

And you want to support this company? You want to give money to this company?


When GAME PUBLICATIONS are looking for YOUR RIGHTS, you condemn them?

You want to defend the company that branded their entire userbase a thief?

So glad that somebody woke up & isn't completely under Microsoft's spell.

 

[borghe]

They can still choose to write whatever the hell they want on the disc and alter how the system responds to that info at any time.

Oh hell.. I promise you the actual file format for both systems' discs an binaries has LONG been locked in stone. Not only do I promise that the DRM tech is still present on XBONE discs, but I don't even blame them for that (well aside from wanting it in the first place). They probably don't even have the feasible ability at this point to remove it from the disc/binary format. Hence the patch needed to get around it.

I won't even play the "they can turn it on whenever" card here, because that's seriously outside of what I'm getting at. Even I MS never turns DRM on for the entire gen, it almost certainly will be on every disc shipped. That's usually not something that can be changed like 6 months before release.. And like 2-3 months before production. If even that long.

 

[Jhriad]

You mean embrace, extend and extinguish?

I had never heard of this before. At least in reference to it being a policy inside Microsoft. Fucking gross.

Journalism journalism journalism journalism journalists etc etc

Games press/media aren't journalists. It's as simple as that. Even the games press themselves will tell you they're not journos. The closest we have are places like Gamasutra and a few other individuals out there. EDGE isn't the Times or the Journal it's a hobbyist/enthusiast mag. Jeff Gerstmann isn't Walter Cronkite and the sooner some of you realize that the media you depend on for "unbiased" and "objective" news are anything but. (Not saying this article has any particular bias other than the splashy front page though)

 

[kaching]

Oh hell.. I promise you the actual file format for both systems' discs an binaries has LONG been locked in stone. Not only do I promise that the DRM tech is still present on XBONE discs, but I don't even blame them for that (well aside from wanting it in the first place). They probably don't even have the feasible ability at this point to remove it from the disc/binary format. Hence the patch needed to get around it.

I won't even play the "they can turn it on whenever" card here, because that's seriously outside of what I'm getting at. Even I MS never turns DRM on for the entire gen, it almost certainly will be on every disc shipped. That's usually not something that can be changed like 6 months before release.. And like 2-3 months before production. If even that long.

Yeah, I'm not saying they're changing anything on the disc, just that what's there is there and can be ignored without having to change the disc file structure and content. And I agree that that probably doesn't mean they're going to turn it back on at some point.

 

[Bornstellar]

Are you interning as an engineer on the Xbox One or something?

How do you know the software update isn't removing the call-home requirement?

More importantly, why does it matter what the original intentions of the patch were when the end result is the same?

Nope, I'm on Windows (whoopee!), but this was one of the things Phil clarified. The end result may be the same, but the difference is that Microsoft would have to do release a new console to change these policies after they ship with what they are doing now.

Reply to what I am telling you. Don't spin your BS failing argument because of a "timer". Nobody knows the exact method to disable online requirements - other people were merely guessing. I even mentioned this to you earlier and you STILL ignored it and went on your crusade defending what you THINK (more like wish) MS said.

Here I am, linking you shit straight from the horse's mouth you are saying isn't happening.

Drop the shovel and go home, man. Stop digging. You're done. Even AFTER a clarification MS still says the patch is to enable offline play but added some fluff BS because "oh... Oh yeah... It really is meant for other stuff we had planned all along"

Riiiiiiight.

Straight from the horses mouth = Kotaku's (mis)interpretation.

...

Riiiiiiight.

Nevermind, you've completely lost me.

Your original quote was this:



What I assumed was that you assumed that the original method (licenses were assigned to all users) was that there was some physically based method on disc, which would require a physical change for removal.

A license is not a physical thing. It's a software construct. Both of those methods you mentioned are completely implemented in software -- there would be no change required to the disc itself. What do you imagine would change on the disc?

Sorry, should be a little more clear. When I'm referring to is actually precisely the opposite. They are now going to have to add info to every printed disc (license info) with the policy change. And a license is a software construct, but once it's printed to a disc, that data is set in stone and becomes "physical". The disc itself must store license data that wasn't previously planned for ("physical") while the Xbox One now needs to verify against the disc's stored license if a disc is put in the drive (software).

They can still choose to write whatever the hell they want on the disc and alter how the system responds to that info at any time.

This is true, however, trying to do something "fancy" gets into intractable territory really quickly. MS simply doesn't have the time or consumer goodwill to try anything of the sort.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Nope, I'm on Windows (whoopee!), but this was one of the things Phil clarified. The end result may be the same, but the difference is that Microsoft would have to do release a new console to change these policies after they ship with what they are doing now.



Straight from the horses mouth = Kotaku's (mis)interpretation.

...

Riiiiiiight.



.

How do you misinterpret a quote? They translating from Swahili?

 

[Iacobellis]

The market is going that way though. It's going to go all-digital eventually and DRM is gonna exist as a result in some form. Microsoft just took a bigger step than they should have. I think Microsoft could have gone all-digital, but they would have had to design a system where DRM wasn't intrusive - in other words, online authentication wasn't something they should have done.

Sony's PS3 had a lot of problems - complexity in its design, the price tag, and the hubris of Sony itself. I would say that Sony, at that time, was in just as big of a predicament as Microsoft is in now.

Also, it should be noted that the Xbox One no longer has any DRM so that's at least removed - the biggest problem for Microsoft will be its price + weaker specs.

Not close. For one, Kutaragi didn't leave Sony until after the PS3's launch.

 

[inner-G]

I'm a moron, I read the thread title and fished through to read 'post #180', lol

 

[Boss Man]

The patch is allowing you to play the console offline. Since you can't currently play it offline, you have to go online to get this patch first.

Microsoft: You can play the console offline.

Oh, so I'm going to buy it and play offline, grea-

Microsoft: Well, first you have to go online for a patch. Unrelated though.

Oh okay, that's cool. Wait, if it's unrelated then why do I have to go online for a patch before I can play any game? If there's no DRM (since you aren't removing it), why can't I just go straight into a game without any connection?

Microsoft: Shh...

 

[Zeth]

Magazine covers - how do they work?

Interested to read the feature, I guess. Have a feeling it's a sensational cover for the sake of it though. I mean, it's doing it's job alright.

 

[astraycat]

Sorry, should be a little more clear. When I'm referring to is actually precisely the opposite. They are now going to have to add info to every printed disc (license info) with the policy change. And a license is a software construct, but once it's printed to a disc, that data is set in stone and becomes "physical". The disc itself must store license data that wasn't previously planned for ("physical") while the Xbox One now needs to verify against the disc's stored license if a disc is put in the drive (software).

What would they have to add? Copy protection? I'm sure that was already there, regardless of any other sort of DRM. It's not as if Microsoft wasn't going to have some sort of disc verification in the first place.

 

[Jhriad]

Sorry, should be a little more clear. When I'm referring to is actually precisely the opposite. They are now going to have to add info to every printed disc (license info) with the policy change. And a license is a software construct, but once it's printed to a disc, that data is set in stone and becomes "physical". The disc itself must store license data that wasn't previously planned for ("physical") while the Xbox One now needs to verify against the disc's stored license if a disc is put in the drive (software).

Is the argument here that they can't reinstate the check in because of this licensing structure (which would be nonsense) or what? Lost the thread of this conversation a while back.

 

[Bornstellar]

How do you misinterpret a quote? They translating from Swahili?

Care to provide the quote in question?

 

[FranXico]

The patch is allowing you to play the console offline. Since you can't currently play it offline, you have to go online to get this patch first.

Microsoft: You can play the console offline.

Oh, so I'm going to buy it and play offline, grea-

Microsoft: Well, first you have to go online for a patch. Unrelated though.

Oh okay, that's cool. Wait, if it's unrelated then why do I have to go online for a patch before I can play any game? If there's no DRM (since you aren't removing it), why can't I just go straight into a game without any connection?

Microsoft: Shh...

I can't wait until people without internet connection try to use their brand new X1, because MS "said that it didn't need internet any more".

 

[Wynnebeck]

How do you misinterpret a quote? They translating from Swahili?

I'm more confused how you can be working as an intern at Microsoft and still get the interpretation wrong. It's plain as day.

 

[twobear]

The patch is allowing you to play the console offline. Since you can't currently play it offline, you have to go online to get this patch first.

Microsoft: You can play the console offline.

Oh, so I'm going to buy it and play offline, grea-

Microsoft: Well, first you have to go online for a patch. Unrelated though.

Oh okay, that's cool. Wait, if it's unrelated then why do I have to go online for a patch before I can play any game? If there's no DRM (since you aren't removing it), why can't I just go straight into a game without any connection?

Microsoft: Shh...

I don't get this, are people trying to spin the day one patch as a conspiracy theory 'they're watching you they'll steal your kids' kind of thing? Lol if so.

 

[G_Berry]

I can't wait until people without internet connection try to use their brand new X1, because MS "said that it didn't need internet any more".

I doubt that would be many people to be honest.

 

[Jhriad]

I don't get this, are people trying to spin the day one patch as a conspiracy theory 'they're watching you they'll still your kids' kind of thing? Lol if so.

A product of people not understanding how far out these systems have to go into production to guarantee a large enough stockpile for the holiday launch.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Care to provide the quote in question?

You've already quoted it like 5 times in this thread. Lol. Pretty sure Benny told ya.

 

[Bornstellar]

Is the argument here that they can't reinstate the check in because of this licensing structure (which would be nonsense) or what? Lost the thread of this conversation a while back.

More or less. From what I understand, previously, licensing was only tied to a user, now it may also be tied to a disc, and that disc will be designed to work in any and all conditions (for example, on consoles that are perpetually offline following the initial system update). I'm sure if they really wanted to redesign the system they had planned for this case and then anger hordes or people (again), they could put the effort in to do so. Somehow, I don't see that happening.

You've already quoted it like 5 times in this thread. Lol. Pretty sure Benny told ya.

If it's this one...

Microsoft clarifies that the planned day-one Xbox One update, which Whitten told me, will "complete some of the software that won’t be there"—is actually not a result of today's DRM policy change. Rather, it was always planned and will be simply be required for playing off-line, among other things. Not a patch, they say. But, yes, your new Xbox console would have to connect online once in order to do the things Microsoft described today. And then you can keep it offline and play games without re-connecting to the Internet forever.

Then it is a misinterpretation. Let me break it down as far as I understand:
Some people say - day one required setup sets a timer to INFINITE which can then be later be set back to 24 hours.
What I'm saying - day one required setup was planned for other reasons, doesn't set any timer values.

Marc Whitten is the VP of Live, champ. Kotaku wrote about it. Again... The VP of Xbox Live... Said the Bone would require a Day 1 patch for offline play.

How are you not banned yet for your tirade against facts and corporate shilling?

See above. I'm saying from what I understand and what I've been told, it doesn't change some system level timer. It is required for ANY play, offline or on. But please, continue your mudslinging.

 

[Jack_AG]

Straight from the horses mouth = Kotaku's (mis)interpretation.

...

Riiiiiiight.

Marc Whitten is the VP of Live, champ. Kotaku wrote about it. Again... The VP of Xbox Live... Said the Bone would require a Day 1 patch for offline play.

How are you not banned yet for your tirade against facts and corporate shilling?

 

[CouldBeWorse]

Marc Whitten is the VP of Live, champ. Kotaku talked to the man and wrote about it. Again... The VP of Xbox Live... Said the Bone would require a Day 1 patch for offline play.

How are you not banned yet for your tirade against facts and corporate shilling?

He was clear about his affiliation. I'm not sure why you're calling for a ban.

 

[Jhriad]

Marc Whitten is the VP of Live, champ. Kotaku wrote about it. Again... The VP of Xbox Live... Said the Bone would require a Day 1 patch for offline play.

Doesn't seem like he's arguing that the patch won't be required for offline play just that the patch was already planned for other reasons and that the offline play bit is being pushed into the same update.

 

[Jack_AG]

He was clear about his affiliation. I'm not sure why you're calling for a ban.

Because he is arguing against facts plain and simple. The boy refuses to accept what is right in front of him. Also, affiliation is fine, purposefully skewing facts to try to make your employer look better is OK to you?

The guy is delusional and is spreading misinformation.

 

[Bornstellar]

Because he is arguing against facts plain and simple. The boy refuses to accept what is right in front of him. Also, affiliation is fine, purposefully skewing facts to try to make your employer look better is OK to you?

The guy is delusional and is spreading misinformation.

You care to outline what facts I'm skewing? And employer or no, I don't care about trying to make my employer look better. I do care about FUD.

 

[Phire Phox]

PS4 is not my next console. Xbox one all the way!!!!

 

[Jacobi]

Do they mention the NSA in their article?

 

[Jack_AG]

Doesn't seem like he's arguing that the patch won't be required for offline play just that the patch was already planned for other reasons and that the offline play bit is being pushed into the same update.

Oh really?
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=67809076

 

[twobear]

I agree. I think microsoft would be pretty much insane to flip this again this gen. But, at the same time, I totally understand why people don't trust them. Microsoft dug their own grave there.

This. What the hell kind of alien planet do people think they live on where Microsoft would see their pre-orders tank, and then think 'we'll remove the DRM...and then add it back on later! no-one will be any the wiser! bwa ha ha ha!'.

I assume these people also believe Microsoft's campus in Redmond looks a lot like that weird castle on the moon that the bad guys in Power Rangers lived in?

Doesn't seem like he's arguing that the patch won't be required for offline play just that the patch was already planned for other reasons and that the offline play bit is being pushed into the same update.

Also this. I don't see what the argument is about here, the guy being attacked isn't saying that the day-one patch isn't removing DRM, only that it isn't leaving the whole system in place and only changing a timer? Not really sure what the argument is about.

 

[Jack_AG]

You care to outline what facts I'm skewing? And employer or no, I don't care about trying to make my employer look better. I do care about FUD.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=67809076

"How many times does this need to be repeated? The patch won't enable 24 hours offline."

This was AFTER I had linked an earlier article in reply to your misinformation which you ignored and continued on your quest to muddy up the waters.

Is it really THIS hard for you to follow along? I don't mean to get personal - but damn, dude. That's what I've been on you about this whole time. Stop spreading bullshit and call it like it is.

 

[Bornstellar]

Oh really?
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=67809076

How many times does this need to be repeated? The patch won't enable 24 hours offline. They only mention that you will need to connect ONCE for that patch because I assume they will be developing the OS level stuff until the very end, giving them as much time as possible to get things as polished as possible. The DRM reversal is not only a software change, but also represents a major shift in the way discs are printed.

While I'm sure I could have done a better job explaining this, it shouldn't take so much effort to understand.

Yes, you need to go online once to setup the box in order to go offline.

No, this is not because 24 hour checks need to be disabled.

We good?

EDIT: Here's what Marc Whitten said -

Microsoft clarifies that the planned day-one Xbox One update "is actually not a result of today's DRM policy change. Rather, it was always planned and will be simply be required for playing off-line, among other things."

 

[Thaumaturgic Tomato]

Eff Kinect and all it stands for. I play in full recline on a couch, with only my head slightly angled upward for ultimate, immobile comfort. All that I move are my thumbs and index fingers.

That is what gaming is. Relaxation. Sitting down and catching my breath after spending all week in the real world.

Motion controls, especially Kinect, are the opposite of relaxation. The less moving, the better. Fully reclined gaming is where it has been and always will be.

Eff waving my arm when moving my thumb 0.5cm will do the exact same thing on screen.
It's not immersion. The same action happens on screen, whether a button push triggers it or making armpit farts in front of Kinect. Either will make your character do an armpit fart (or change the TV channel!).

Eff you, effing Kinect.

 

[twobear]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=67809076

"How many times does this need to be repeated? The patch won't enable 24 hours offline."

This was AFTER I had linked an earlier article in reply to your misinformation which you ignored and continued on your quest to muddy up the waters.

Is it really THIS hard for you to follow along? I don't mean to get personal - but damn, dude. That's what I've been on you about this whole time. Stop spreading bullshit and call it like it is.

I'm pretty sure you're attacking him over a misunderstanding? He's saying that the patch that removes DRM isn't just setting some timer to infinity. He says in the exact same post:

The DRM reversal is not only a software change, but also represents a major shift in the way discs are printed.

Not only a software change.

 

[spectyre]

This. What the hell kind of alien planet do people think they live on where Microsoft would see their pre-orders tank, and then think 'we'll remove the DRM...and then add it back on later! no-one will be any the wiser! bwa ha ha ha!'.

I assume these people also believe Microsoft's campus in Redmond looks a lot like that weird castle on the moon that the bad guys in Power Rangers lived in?

I would agree with you 100 percent but the PR disaster that has come out of MS since May makes me question whether or not they live on the moon.

 

[Jack_AG]

While I'm sure I could have done a better job explaining this, it shouldn't take so much effort to understand.

Yes, you need to go online in order to go offline.

No, this is not because 24 hour checks need to be disabled.

We good?

No. There was no effort needed to understand. You stated it would not enable an offline mode which the VP of Xbox Live SAID it would.

I corrected you multiple times and you keep on insisting that's not the case. Now you are saying that it isn't because of the 24 hour check-in that needs to be disabled... but... IS because of the 24 hour check-in?

Yes, you need to go online in order to go offline.

No, this is not because 24 hour checks need to be disabled.

Holy hell this is amazing! I didn't even edit these back to back - this is exactly as you typed it!

 

[Jhriad]

This. What the hell kind of alien planet do people think they live on where Microsoft would see their pre-orders tank, and then think 'we'll remove the DRM...and then add it back on later! no-one will be any the wiser! bwa ha ha ha!'.

I assume these people also believe Microsoft's campus in Redmond looks a lot like that weird castle on the moon that the bad guys in Power Rangers lived in?

From my perspective it's not that I believe they'll put this stuff back in (in this coming generation at least) but rather that I simply don't trust them not to pull other bullshit later. Whether that's abandoning the core again for Kinect games or whatever else they've lost my trust. In addition I think they lost the right to my money when they attempted to force a loss of my right of ownership. Maybe over the course of a few years and good behavior they can win me over, not entirely unlikely, but for now I'll be happy sticking to the other systems and my PC.

 

[NullPointer]

Oh really?
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=67809076

The day one patch may have been planned from the beginning.

In which case you're both right.

 

[SeanR1221]

Man, I can't even read half these posts without getting disappointed. The console wars really bring out the worst in people.

There's the Microsoft fans getting all upset about this article and the Sony fans gloating that this article was written. In the big scheme of things, who cares. The vast majority of the people that will buy either system world wide don't know and don't care what Edge is or what they have to say.

Can't some of you guys try and get a long a little better? Remember, you play games to have fun. Remember fun? Both systems are gonna be great and both will have great exclusive games and features. Lets all have a group hug.

 

[Jack_AG]

I'm pretty sure you're attacking him over a misunderstanding? He's saying that the patch that removes DRM isn't just setting some timer to infinity. He says in the exact same post:



Not only a software change.

Timer has nothing to do with it... which I stated earlier. I'm not speculating on HOW the online-check-in is removed AT ALL. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm commenting on how he continues to SPIN what Marc Whitten said about the Day 1 patch enabling you to play your games OFFLINE.

 

[Bornstellar]

No. There was no effort needed to understand. You stated it would not enable an offline mode which the VP of Xbox Live SAID it would.

I corrected you multiple times and you keep on insisting that's not the case. Now you are saying that it isn't because of the 24 hour check-in that needs to be disabled... but... IS because of the 24 hour check-in?



Holy hell this is amazing! I didn't even edit these back to back - this is exactly as you typed it!

...

I'm saying it would be bloody moronic for a company to need to patch in a change in software that it can make right now.

Therefore - it ISN'T because some timer needs to be set from 24 hours to infinite.

Timer has nothing to do with it... which I stated earlier. I'm not speculating on HOW the online-check-in is removed AT ALL. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm commenting on how he continues to SPIN what Marc Whitten said about the Day 1 patch enabling you to play your games OFFLINE.

Holy hell dude, even I don't know what I'm supposed to be spinning anymore. Here's the original quote I responded to:

The original intent of the patch was to enable 24 hours offline. Now it will be set to forever as zomg says.

I'm saying, (as Marc Whiten has already said) that the above statement is false in the sense that it refers to some system level timer. So the supposed timer has everything to do with it.