Edge #256: Why PS4 is your next console (Shots fired, post-DRM 180)

Jhriad said:
From my perspective it's not that I believe they'll put this stuff back in (in this coming generation at least) but rather that I simply don't trust them not to pull other bullshit later. In addition I think they lost the right to my money when they attempted to force a loss of my right of ownership. Maybe over the course of a few years and good behavior they can win me over, not entirely unlikely, but for now I'll be happy sticking to the other systems and my PC.
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This strikes me as completely reasonable.

Jack_AG said:
Timer has nothing to do with it... which I stated earlier. I'm not speculating on HOW the online-check-in is removed AT ALL. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm commenting on how he continues to SPIN what Marc Whitten said about the Day 1 patch enabling you to play your games OFFLINE.
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So, uh, what exactly is your issue here? I'm kind of lost. I thought you believed that the patch will just set some timer to infinity, ready for them to switch back to 24 hours at some later date. But actually you just think the fact that there's a day one patch to remove DRM is a smoking gun that they'll reactivate it at some later date? I don't see the logical implication here but I guess you're welcome to believe that.
 
BlastProcessing said:
I think we can safely assume that they saw what was on display at E3; so i think we can safely assume that they saw the performance of Sonys exclusives, and yes, I believe they saw Titanfall. We can assume that they held both controllers and made some judgements there. We can also assume that they spoke with developers. First party, third party, and indies and got a good feel for their opinions on both machines.

They probably also know about the prices of the consoles. They probably saw how even though Microsoft is packing a Kinect in, they didn't show any software to justify it. They saw the difference in executive availability between the companies for interviews. They took this information and came to a conclusion that they felt confident enough to lead with.

I don't think you need to own the console before you can express an opinion on it. I don't think games need to come out before you can have things to say about them, this is something you agreed with when you said that Sony's games performed underwhelmingly.

I think a even a highschool newspaper reader should be ashamed to judge an article solely by its headline. Edge has made a bold claim and now it is up to them to back it up with content. This is not an uncommon, or scummy thing in journalism.
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I agree that you are making a lot of assumptions, as is Edge. I am not judging the article, I am judging the publication. To make the statement which was made by edge without either product available to review is bad journalism. See consumer reports if you would like an idea of how a respectable publication handles such proclamations.
 
Jack_AG said:
Timer has nothing to do with it... which I stated earlier. I'm not speculating on HOW the online-check-in is removed AT ALL. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm commenting on how he continues to SPIN what Marc Whitten said about the Day 1 patch enabling you to play your games OFFLINE.
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What in the world is wrong with a day 1 patch? Why even bother spatting about that?
 
What the hell, I can make my own choices

Just give me the fucking facts, games journalism

(AKA, sensationalist headline)
 
Bornstellar said:
...

I'm saying it would be bloody moronic for a company to need to patch in a change in software that it can make right now.

Therefore - it ISN'T because some timer needs to be set from 24 hours to infinite.
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Why do you assume it can be done now? There may have already been an image sent to manufacturing -- they're not about to speed another image through QA for something that can be solved in the day one patch.
 
Clockwork5 said:
I agree that you are making a lot of assumptions, as is Edge. I am not judging the article, I am judging the publication. To make the statement which was made by edge without either product available to review is bad journalism. See consumer reports if you would like an idea of how a respectable publication handles such proclamations.
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Good thing Edge specifically stated "WHY PS4 IS FOR YOU RIGHT NOW"


Laff.
 
Bornstellar said:
...

I'm saying it would be bloody moronic for a company to need to patch in a change in software that it can make right now.

Therefore - it ISN'T because some timer needs to be set from 24 hours to infinite.
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Here's my reply the FIRST TIME YOU SAID THIS:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67812921&postcount=1916

I've already gone over this with you, ffs.

You are purposefully being ignorant and to that I say, good night. You are refusing to read anything I've written, constantly spinning what MS and even YOU say and now you are blatantly repeating yourself when I have already gone over this with you, SMH.
 
Who cares how it's done as long as it is done(as long as you can actually connect to the net, meaning, have the ability to do so).

Any software patch can be reversed as long as it is only a software patch, but it would be stupid to do so.
 
There are some straight up bitter fanboys up in here. Look I was really sad to see Sony fuck up last gen but I supported MS and Nintendo because they were doing the right things (at least initially). You need to let go of your brand loyalty and stop supporting bad business decisions. It will improve things for all gamers when you do.
 
astraycat said:
Why do you assume it can be done now? There may have already been an image sent to manufacturing -- they're not about to speed another image through QA for something that can be solved in the day one patch.
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See, now this is a good point. So yes, I guess you could say they'll roll the changes over the day one setup/patch since it was already planned. However, my assumption is currently based off of the fact that AFAIK we haven't heard that the Xbox One has gone to manufacturing yet.

EDIT: The point I'm really trying to make is that due to the changes that need to be made on how the system handles physical media, reverting back to the original policies after launch seems nigh impossible.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Also, all this is over the cover, which while deliberately sensationalistic will be greatly elaborated on in the actual content of the issue. People who may find the cover objectionable may (or as likely, not) have a different view of the actual content. Edge usually does a pretty great job at spelling out their reasoning for calls like this in a way that is much less one-dimensional than conveyed a cover. I'm looking forward to the issue for that reason. Hopefully the article goes online.
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Ghaleon I didn't know you were made a mod. Nice my man. Nice
 
Clockwork5 said:
I agree that you are making a lot of assumptions, as is Edge. I am not judging the article, I am judging the publication. To make the statement which was made by edge without either product available to review is bad journalism. See consumer reports if you would like an idea of how a respectable publication handles such proclamations.
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This is actually a hilarious statement if you know anything about the history of Consumer Reports. They are pussies for a good reason. Back in the day, they wrote a negative review of a Bose speaker system and Bose sued them. They settled out of court and to this day Consumer Reports doesn't review Bose product anymore. They also are careful not to say anything openly negative about products they review to avoid being sued again.
 
SeanR1221 said:
Man, I can't even read half these posts without getting disappointed. The console wars really bring out the worst in people.

There's the Microsoft fans getting all upset about this article and the Sony fans gloating that this article was written. In the big scheme of things, who cares. The vast majority of the people that will buy either system world wide don't know and don't care what Edge is or what they have to say.

Can't some of you guys try and get a long a little better? Remember, you play games to have fun. Remember fun? Both systems are gonna be great and both will have great exclusive games and features. Lets all have a group hug.
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While I agree with you, this is also all of the fun of the console wars. You shouldn't really expect anything different. It's great to see the explosion of activity on NeoGAF and all the crazy discussions, good or bad.
 
crazygambit said:
Of course they could. They just have to do it slowly. You can do anything to people as long as you do it slowly.

Look at Sony. They took out BC, Linux support and are now charging for online play, but since they did it in a span of 7 years it has been largely ignored. They could follow PS+ approach if they really, really wanted to bring DRM back. Instead of just taking stuff away immediately like they did now, they could start making digital more and more convenient, until the point they could bring back "digital version discs" to use in the digital ecosystem that now is so much better than physical copies. Those benefits could be anything really. In PS+ case it was free games and discounts, which to be fair makes paying for online very painless, since it's already such great value, but they got you to pay for online and like it. Who's to say they can't do the same for DRM given enough time?
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There's nothing wrong with this if the incentive is there, though, and I imagine that is the route MS will take now. It's a bit foolish to think they are going to flick a DRM switch like some tin foil hat owners here are claiming.
 
GopherD said:
Twenty games from Sony first party in the first year. We've seen five.
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I've seen you claiming this before, are these all retail games or we can expect a lot of PSN titles?

Regardless of Sony's considerable large first party studios, 20 games in a years seems a lot. I always thought this number included second party, Sony published titles too.

Even EA doesn't release that much different games in a year anymore.

I hope you're right, but I'm a little skeptic.
 
JJD said:
I've seen you claiming this before, are these all retail games or we can expect a lot of PSN titles?

Regardless of Sony's considerable large first party studios, 20 games in a years seems a lot. I always thought this number included second party, Sony published titles too.

Even EA doesn't release that much different games in a year anymore.

I hope you're right, but I'm a little skeptic.
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The Gopher doesn't lie. He's legit
 
FINALBOSS said:
Good thing Edge specifically stated "WHY PS4 IS FOR YOU RIGHT NOW"
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I can buy a PS4 right now? Awesome!

Where are the reviews of the launch games so I can decide what to buy? Can you point me to the walkthroughs of the final interfaces and services? I'm curious about those, too.

I really hope the article is more interesting than the cover.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
This is actually a hilarious statement if you know anything about the history of Consumer Reports. They are pussies for a good reason. Back in the day, they wrote a negative review of a Bose speaker system and Bose sued them. They settled out of court and to this day Consumer Reports doesn't review Bose product anymore. They also are careful not to say anything openly negative about products they review to avoid being sued again.
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They were sued by Bose and as a publication which does not paricipate in any form of advertising was not financially equipped to deal with future suits. They stopped reviewing Bose for a period, but Google it dude. They have plenty negative to say about shitty products, and are more respected in terms of integrity than almost any other publication available for purchase.
 
The cover design is great! Put SCE logo together.
64e7655fjw1e69f0pgc09j20ga0dgdhe.jpg
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Crimson_Gold said:
Oh OK.

I actually asked the same question earlier in the thread. Haven't heard anything yet.
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As I said I hope it's true, but I can't see it happening without some second party titles and smaller digital titles.

Maybe he is talking about exclusives in general. 20 exclusives in the first year, first and second party since I don't believe first party alone can push that many titles and Sony isn't willing to pay big bucks for third party exclusives anymore.
 
Bornstellar said:
While I'm sure I could have done a better job explaining this, it shouldn't take so much effort to understand.

Yes, you need to go online once to setup the box in order to go offline.

No, this is not because 24 hour checks need to be disabled.

We good?

EDIT: Here's what Marc Whitten said -
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Oh man, you're trying to prove your incorrect assumption with a quote from MS that directly goes against your claim.

Look at what is said. "[The day one patch] will be simply be required for playing off-line, among other things." Whitten aka MS are clearly saying the patch is needed to remove the online requirements.

Without the patch, you can't play offline. Hence the 24 hour check system in the firmware is being updated in this day one patch to allow for offline usage.
 
JJD said:
As I said I hope it's true, but I can't see it happening without some second party titles and smaller digital titles.

Maybe he is talking about exclusives in general. 20 exclusives in the first year, first and second party since I don't believe first party alone can push that many titles and Sony isn't willing to pay big bucks for third party exclusives anymore.
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Sony also does a lot of partnership titles like we saw with Demon's Souls, Quantic Dream games and Soul Sacrifice. The Order is the only one right now that would fall into that category, but i'm sure that they have more. Sony Japan in particular likes going that route.
 
I really don't see myself buying a console again, not because of money but because of time. Really with wife and job, I spend my free time on PC, I choose wisely.

Gotta say thou, I've feel tempted to buy a PS4, SONY seems to be touching the right notes with this one, Good for them. I like SONY way more than I like Microsoft.

Microsoft its just such an unappealing company: greedy, monopolistic, stubborn and just.. like ugghh..
 
NullPointer said:
The day one patch may have been planned from the beginning.

In which case you're both right.
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As I understand it, MS had counted on every system being required to go online to function. And so they scheduled their OS development on that basis, so they could finalize closer to launch and well into manufacturing. The reality of that schedule means they still need the update day 1 despite the DRM reversal.
 
GhaleonEB said:
As I understand it, MS had counted on every system being required to go online to function. And so they scheduled their OS development on that basis, so they could finalize closer to launch and well into manufacturing. The reality of that schedule means they still need the update day 1 despite the DRM reversal.
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Exactly.

Wii U had a day one patch.

PS4 will almost certainly have a day one patch.

I want them working up to the last minute to provide the beat possible interface.
 
TheWesker said:
The day one patch could also be put on launch game discs if they felt like it too.
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They'd likely press the discs well before the day one patch was ready, but they could begin including the most recent update on all post-launch games for the rest of the system's life. That's a better solution than requiring all systems to be online even once.
 
Boken said:
What the hell, I can make my own choices

Just give me the fucking facts, games journalism

(AKA, sensationalist headline)
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I kinda like the way this reads. For gaming-related publications, I like the more entertaining opinionated slant Edge sometimes takes.

Syria: I'll take just the facts. Gaming: I love the passionate heritage of nerds defending their home team.
 
I can get behind the balls to make that cover. MS need to be beaten old school. All bloody like. Competition is good for the long run.
 
nofi said:
Presume it's all vastly outdated now, what with Microsoft's reversal on DRM and so on.
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yeah I'm really curious if they take the reversal into account in this edition. If they don't then that's horribly unprofessional of them to misinform people. There are still people out there who think the xbox one can't be used without an internet check in ever 24 hours.
 
What a fuckin great magazine cover. The PS4 will not STOP. What a great show we have before us. The drama will be unlike anything we've seen in the gistory of video games. We've already experienced so much!

The battle will ultimately be decided by the games.
 
godelsmetric said:
This. What the hell kind of alien planet do people think they live on where Microsoft would see their pre-orders tank, and then think 'we'll remove the DRM...and then add it back on later! no-one will be any the wiser! bwa ha ha ha!'.

I assume these people also believe Microsoft's campus in Redmond looks a lot like that weird castle on the moon that the bad guys in Power Rangers lived in?


Also this. I don't see what the argument is about here, the guy being attacked isn't saying that the day-one patch isn't removing DRM, only that it isn't leaving the whole system in place and only changing a timer? Not really sure what the argument is about.
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I for one minute do not think ms cannot do a per patch update to alleviate bs that wii u owners complained about. In fact several thousand wii u's were bricked because of update errors. Ms would be fools to not iron this per launch. They don't need any more debacles. Also... The bone4U gen is going to last at least until 2020 so I have zero faith in ms not keeping their hand off the drm trigger after 4 years.
 
Edge will definitely get a lot of traffic on their site and sell a lot of copies with this issue for sure. Another plus is this will make MS be more competitive despite all their blunders. Edge should mention the price also, this is a huge factor favoring the PS4 being $100 less than the Xbox one.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Sony also does a lot of partnership titles like we saw with Demon's Souls, Quantic Dream games and Soul Sacrifice. The Order is the only one right now that would fall into that category, but i'm sure that they have more. Sony Japan in particular likes going that route.
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Sony's got a lot of studios, and yet they're promising 20 games in addition to whatever they're finishing up on the Vita and PS3 front, so if this all comes together it would be quite impressive.

I don't think 20 titles is really far-fetched though... we know five already, let's assume Planetside 2 and DCU are included too so that's 7, plus a hypothetical 13 that could include:

The Last Guardian
Sony Santa Monica New IP
Guerilla Games New IP
Naughty Dog New IP / Uncharted 4 / Unkarted (take your pick)
A Playstation CAMP game (Tokyo Jungle 2 BELIEVE)
GT6 Up-Port
Super Stardust Spiritual Successor (confirmed IIRC?)
Housemarque New IP (confirmed IIRC?)
MLB The Show 14
Something from Sony Bend
Something from Team Siren
Something from Team London
DEMON SOULS 2 / New Collaboration with FROM

Probably nothing from Quantic or Media Molecule in the next year, and probably not a new Ratchet game unless the movie is coming next year. Did I miss any studios? I wouldn't be surprised to see some smaller games coming out of Japan, Sony's always done well with that stuff with CAMP and with the indie game support they're showing I wonder if we'll get some good Japanese titles out of that as well. Maybe Level 5 is developing a game for Sony as well, as we know they're working on PS4?

Not a bad first year lineup although a lot of wishful thinking in there.
 
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