Team Fortress 2 receiving large balance update (and new maps) in upcoming patch.
- Thread starter Archie
- Start date
I wouldn't recommend jumping in right away. TF2 is held together with paper and spit at this point, an update like this will probably break it for a bit.
I'm really surprised and impressed that they're doing this. My interest in TF2 decreased along with the degree of thought and craftsmanship put into the post-Engineer updates.
Honestly, I thought that the game's numerous polish and balance issues would never be looked at seriously again. This might be enough to bring me back in.
Honestly, I thought that the game's numerous polish and balance issues would never be looked at seriously again. This might be enough to bring me back in.
-MD-
Member
Explain. I play daily and have no issues. Game is fine.
Angry Fork
Member
All it takes is literally 3 seconds for a spy to sap, then shoot with pistol, blow it up and run off. It's a cunt move that engies can't fight against. Sometimes people don't come out of the spawn soon enough to get rid of the spy. Not a legitimate tactic at all, just as bad as demos sticky jumping to spawn. When I play spy I make it a point to never do that because I know how much of a bitch move it is, because I play engy a lot too and know it's impossible to combat.
yeah indeed
beastworship
Neo Member
pyro blast should be reduced to compensate for continual spy neutering, i'd say one or two blows until it's empty. this way you need to use a skilled blast or two instead of spamming with up to ten plus ammo to burn.
Schweinehund
Member
I usually used DR because all the other watches are god awful. You can't decloak behind enemies without them hearing you, and spy checking is way too easy.
Sir Abacus
Member
I've had spies that run in and just sit on the fucking turret and just continually sap it under fire of three guys. This piece of shit needs to be nerfed into the ground and nerfed hard.
Thankfully a good majority of the spies are skilless dipshits so I can set down the now useless TPs as sap bait in the accessways to my turret, get some warning, get the shotgun hit and start their 6.5 second cooldown before they actually get near the sentry.
Or I just play medic because fuck playing eng having to deal with this shit.
Put immune to fire while cloaked and immune to fire for 5 seconds while disguised on the watch if you have to. Anything is better than invulnerable tanks.
CountAntonius
Member
Great support.
NihonTiger90
Member
Wait, those are Scorpio's maps, NX? Holy fuck, I haven't heard from him in forever.
Man, do the people who say that this update will "break an already broken game even further" even play the game anymore? Or even have it installed? Game plays fine and I barely see any reasons to complain about game balance at the moment.
Hell, I rock stock weapons and I STILL get top 3 on the scoreboard when it comes to pubs, and that's not even on kills.
Hell, I rock stock weapons and I STILL get top 3 on the scoreboard when it comes to pubs, and that's not even on kills.
beastworship
Neo Member
nah, i'll take the reduce pyro blow/blast. it perpetuates the class as low skill because it is and that spam is very unbalanced particularly in tighter corridor levels like 2fort.
-MD-
Member
Luckily for you Titanfall looks like Call of Duty so skill will likely be optional.
Angry Fork
Member
I don't understand why Valve can't just make teleporter entrances invincible? What's the point of making them so vulnerable? It breaks the game for everyone when an engy can't defend the teleporter entrance and the rest of the team has to walk a long way just because of 1 annoying spy.
Sir Abacus
Member
I don't know why we can't just put them inside spawn. Problem solved.
I disagree. Don't want to make this a Titanfall thread, so I will just respond once.
Just adding the vertical element of Titanfall will add in another layer of depth alone. Then you add in fast Titans, different soldier options to deflect damage or cloak, and non-ADS gameplay, you have already raised the skill ceiling immensely.
Will it be as much as TF2 or CS? Probably not, but the gameplay certainly looks compelling to me.
NOTE: I'm trying to get whether ADS is required or not confirmed via developers on Twitter, GAF, or their forums. I will report back when I know for sure.
There are a couple times in the trailer where the player fires from the hip and the shots don't go out in a random vector. On top of that, it feels like forcing ADS would restrict the type of gamplay they are trying to create.
beastworship
Neo Member
engi can defend an entrance by wrenching the exit, it repairs both ends. as a matter of fact a spy can stand sapping an entrance for the entire match without destroying it if the engi is doing the exit at the same time, the spy would need to start shooting/knifing it, which the engi can also repair faster then damage is given. no need to further castrate the spy class, it's without a doubt the highest finesse/artisan in the game as is.
-MD-
Member
Well for one it would make matches about 80% shorter as everyone would guard the exit and the rest of the team would teleport to the end of the map instantly throughout the entire match.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Both are, yup! I think he started working on both of them in 2011, so it's been a while.
beastworship
Neo Member
the only thing it will ultimately affect is blocking. it's a handy strategy for intel capture, standing in a doorway while a team mate runs through and sacrificing so the runner can gain some extra seconds of get away. now it sounds like that won't work, which is unfortunate since it's a thoughtful strategy and not much of an exploit. so long as metal/dispensers replenish, the spy will remain a comedic nuisance to the uninitiated.
Angry Fork
Member
The bolded isn't true, saps will eventually destroy a tele within like 10 seconds even if you're constantly wrenching it. While it's likely someone will spawn by then and take out the spy, it isn't guaranteed, and an engineer needs that time to be able to defend his sentry/dispenser.
Making entrances invincible (or allow them built in spawn) wouldn't castrate spies, they can do everything they want everywhere else (including tele exits). It would only castrate shitty asshole players who can't win legitimately so they rush to an entrance to camp. I don't know how players who do this don't feel bad while doing it, like it's such an easy shitty thing to do it's almost a win button unless your team is really really awful.
No way, in pubs it's almost impossible to get the team to care about the tele entrance, so they definitely don't give a shit about the exit if there's a level 3 protecting it. People don't seem to care much about protecting engineers in general. Sometimes teams play as teams but not enough. And it's much worse if you're not using a mic as half the people in servers don't seem to understand how to read text.
One person being able to hinder an entire team by rushing to enemy spawn is just way too easy right now and shouldn't be allowed.
Wolf Akela
Member
It's a legit tactic. Spy takes quite a while to destroy something that is constantly repaired. During all that time any teammate can respawn and blow him up. If you had 2 Engies he flatout cannot kill your teleporter. That's 1 enemy Spy being useless while your 2 Engies are still on the frontline.
Uh no, they can't sap camp under fire. They can't do anything while cloaked.
beastworship
Neo Member
well from my experience the engi can knock off the sapper with ease, the problem is running out of metal to repair it. if they had a source of metal then it would be a never ending cycle of sap/repair. most the time a team mate will be in proximity of the entrance to fend off the spy anyway. but if they wanted to allow in spawn deployment i wouldn't be against it...i don't enjoy running from one end to the other and anytime i play spy which is mostly what i play i tend to be a friendly troll spy instigating action chases and poster worthy knife kills.
Sir Abacus
Member
You sure? Because I was in ctf_sawmill tonight and a spy was sitting on top of my sentry killing it while me and two pyros were laying into him.
Wolf Akela
Member
It definitely isn't the case. You can easily try it. You can keep sapping something until it breaks unless there are 2 people repairing it.
Seriously, it's not a broken tactic because you're a sitting duck while doing it, and you're right next to the respawn area. The only relatively safe place to do this is on Goldrush Stage C. Spies can just equip IW, stand on the white wall, keep sapping from there, then cloak whenever someone is around. Spies can also stand on top of the chain-link fences, which is less obvious. Anyone with some experience will just sweep the area with a Pyro. Spy dead, takes 10-15 seconds to respawn, takes another 20 seconds to get back. In that time Pyro's been fighting.
Only thing you can use while cloaked is the disguise kit.
You used to be able to taunt kill while cloaked but they patched it out years ago. There was a brief period where DR Spies jumped in front of sentry nests then taunted.
beastworship
Neo Member
i never thought it was an issue either, i don't bother with them and just teleport through to the exit where real mayhem can occur, the only reason to do the entrance is to gain attention and have people chase you which is also pretty entertaining...for the spy, other classes not so much, hence the continual degradation of spy attributes.
phosphor112
Banned
Sigh... they shoulda fixed this shit years ago. -__-
There was also a thing with the normal cloak where you could uncloak-taunt-recloak really fast, and if you did it right you could kill a sentry or engineer that way. I miss it.
I wish I could be surprised at this, but I'm not.
Haven't really played much in the last year, but I have 1200 hours to the game, half of this just on the spy.
Have two kits I switch between: the default one, and the Saharan spy set with the DR. It can be strong in certain situations, but one pyro nullifies it really.
Not sure what they're doing balance wise anymore. DR was a great way to get past choke points on maps with 32 players that are only supposed to have 24. Even Blizz balance realizes you should fix the root of why players do what they do instead of nerfing based on numbers. Seems backwards to me.
Wow lot of antispy stuff in this page. They have low health, and their JOB is to ruin an engie's day. Go to their spawn, sap tele and telefrag the engie, shooting engie stuff with thei revolver, all great.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I really really want Halo to adopt the TF2 model. Jealous of you guys.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Haha, they keep on moving that balance curve to be more and more geared for casual play.
If you're so bad at TF2 you have a problem with dead ringer spies then I dont know what to say. You just have to approach the situation differently than a normal watch, so the class is still grossly underpowered once you learn the tricks to a DR spy.
If you're so bad at TF2 you have a problem with dead ringer spies then I dont know what to say. You just have to approach the situation differently than a normal watch, so the class is still grossly underpowered once you learn the tricks to a DR spy.
Either way, if you play against a team that communicates, you become irrelevant as a spy. You simply cannot beat a team that actually cares about spy checking and has experience against spies. It's the class that gets borderline crippled against decent players. Just my opinion from experience, though. I usually just switch to medic if I'm up against good players.
Grinchy
Banned
It's an unnecessary annoyance and most people are likely glad that something's finally being done about it.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The problem isn't that the Dead Ringer actually tricks people, it's just that it gives the spy 9 seconds of god-mode to run behind your team, and nobody can do anything about it without one person dedicated to watching for the spy that everyone already knows is there.
Kuro!
I can understand your gripes, but I want to point out that the shotgun does 50% more damage at point blank than the Pomson and has the near the same potential damage at long range (unfortunately, the fact that it has a pellet spread means it'll always do less). Distant random crits is more or less an issue with almost every projectile weapon.
Kuro!
weapons that need nerf:
-gunslinger: should not have 100% health upon deployment if damaged during building phase
-wrangler: dmg reduction is ridiculous, can waste an entire uber taking down a sentry
-dead ringer: dmg reduction is too high, can block ubers
-phlog: dmg reduction is too high, why does valve do this?
-pomson: broken weapon, needs to be re-worked
-beggar's bazooka: reload speed is twice as fast as a regular RL; another broken weapon
-escape plan: doesn't need to exist, giving the second most mobile class another cheap way to get away from a fight
-gunslinger: should not have 100% health upon deployment if damaged during building phase
-wrangler: dmg reduction is ridiculous, can waste an entire uber taking down a sentry
-dead ringer: dmg reduction is too high, can block ubers
-phlog: dmg reduction is too high, why does valve do this?
-pomson: broken weapon, needs to be re-worked
-beggar's bazooka: reload speed is twice as fast as a regular RL; another broken weapon
-escape plan: doesn't need to exist, giving the second most mobile class another cheap way to get away from a fight