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[PK Gaming]

Haha, they keep on moving that balance curve to be more and more geared for casual play.

If you're so bad at TF2 you have a problem with dead ringer spies then I dont know what to say. You just have to approach the situation differently than a normal watch, so the class is still grossly underpowered once you learn the tricks to a DR spy.

That's not the only issue with the DR. A staggering amount of spies are eschewing the other watches for the DR, that's a serious problem. The DR doesn't outright overshadow the other spy watches, but its ease of use/cheese factor makes it a blatantly better choice for most players, and that's not something valve wants to encourage.

In other words, it's a crutch for most players.

 

[Servizio]

It's funny, when the Dead Ringer and the Cloak and Dagger were fist released I recall people making fun of the CnD as the "newb" item. Of course, there have been quite a few balance changes for both items since then, including ones that made the DR a lot easier to use. I can't quite recall their specifics though.

Ah well, I used to be good with the default watch before they ever introduced the new ones. Have to learn how to use it again.

 

[Anson225]

I am a happy man. Thanks Valve.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

If there's any Korean text anywhere, I swear to god...

 

[Uriah]

Haven't played since last a year. I'll have to try some matches and see what's changed.

 

[Lotto]

MvM updates didn't last long for me. I hope to get back into this a bit! It's been awhile.

 

[wetflame]

Pre-HL3 patch.

All patches are Pre-HL3 patches. And they always will be.

 

[Senator Soufflé]

It'll be interesting to see how they buff some of the weapons you hardly ever see. I don't think I've ever seen a Short Circuit actually used before.

 

[Clawww]

That's not the only issue with the DR. A staggering amount of spies are eschewing the other watches for the DR, that's a serious problem. The DR doesn't outright overshadow the other spy watches, but its ease of use/cheese factor makes it a blatantly better choice for most players, and that's not something valve wants to encourage.

In other words, it's a crutch for most players.

the numbers fucking speak for themselves

if 80% of users are rocking the DR, then something's up, and I'm down with Valve making some adjustments to promote more diverse loadouts

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Haha, they keep on moving that balance curve to be more and more geared for casual play.

If you're so bad at TF2 you have a problem with dead ringer spies then I dont know what to say. You just have to approach the situation differently than a normal watch, so the class is still grossly underpowered once you learn the tricks to a DR spy.

You don't play against good spies then; simple as that. It's not a matter of a problem with them, it's the exploitable nature of the item if you're running around trying to destroy a spy and he's more or less laughing at you cause you can't do shit. I've seen really good DR spies turn the tide of battle and camp the shit out of areas with escape routes and lots of metal.

Doubt this will do much for the dwindling player counts though.

 

[Archie]

You don't play against good spies then; simple as that. It's not a matter of a problem with them, it's the exploitable nature of the item if you're running around trying to destroy a spy and he's more or less laughing at you cause you can't do shit. I've seen really good DR spies turn the tide of battle and camp the shit out of areas with escape routes and lots of metal.

Doubt this will do much for the dwindling player counts though.

What dwindling player counts? It's been stable for the past year, outside of event spikes.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

What dwindling player counts? It's been stable for the past year, outside of event spikes.

Majority of people I play with have moved on to dota2.

 

[BeesEight]

You don't play against good spies then; simple as that. It's not a matter of a problem with them, it's the exploitable nature of the item if you're running around trying to destroy a spy and he's more or less laughing at you cause you can't do shit. I've seen really good DR spies turn the tide of battle and camp the shit out of areas with escape routes and lots of metal.

Doubt this will do much for the dwindling player counts though.

What are your pyros doing?

Good spies don't run that silliness because it's easily countered by good play.

Have spies really been dominating the game since I've stopped playing? From what I can tell, there was nothing new added to them since the Halloween update and spies were still worse than good demoman/scout/soldier then. I'm guessing this is more at a casual level?

 

[88random]

80% Spies use the Dead Ringer

And I thought the percentage is even higher. Every spy uses that shit.

 

[Chronoja]

Quick, someone convince them that the loch n' load's stupid looking reload animation is overpowered and they might fix it!

Honestly though, I'm glad to see for once they are going to look backwards instead of mindlessly rampaging forwards adding more and more stuff, and consequently more and more problems to the game. They've just saddled themselves with a more difficult task in balancing now but for once they are actually going to try. Good luck to them, no doubt they'll piss off a lot of people already happy Dead Ringing as an invincible spy or whatever.

 

[Sex]

I've never used the Dead Ringer. I picked the Cloak & Dagger and stick to it for life.

 

[DaciaJC]

How do you all feel about Sentries?

The game would be ten times better if they were wholly removed. Bullshit gadgets which don't require a modicum of skill to use.

Disclaimer: yes, I'm a Scout player.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

At roughly 80%, the equip rate for the Dead Ringer is staggeringly high. Given the many other items available in this category

That's a pretty loose interpretation of the word "many"
There are 2 other watches. That's not really "many"


We need a new watch so badly

 

[BeesEight]

The game would be ten times better if they were wholly removed. Bullshit gadgets which don't require a modicum of skill to use.

Disclaimer: yes, I'm a Scout player.

I'd rather the Demoman removed.

Engineer still seems like the weakest class to me. I have no idea what you could do to balance them for high skill play without making a huge brick wall for beginners to slam against, though.

Also, run Bonk! Now even the class the Engineer hard counters can completely neuter them.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Six years after release and still getting major updates. I'm really happy they're going about with this because I thought they were more or less done with these major changes and were content with keeping TF2 the way it is. I wouldn't mind a retooling of a good chunk of the alternative weapons, and their wording on the blog post has me excited for that.

Dead Ringer needed changing, which might come as a hard blow to some Spy mains who wouldn't conceive using anything else; playing on poor maps with servers that break the player count shouldn't be a defense for its use. It's just annoying to have to encounter lazy Spy players who don't even bother trying to hide the fact that they're using it feign away and run off with what is effectively god mode. The proposed change is brilliant as it doesn't hinder the DR's intended use, but requires more thought from the Spy as to his movement and hiding his use of it better.

 

[Meia]

Six years after release and still getting major updates. I'm really happy they're going about with this because I thought they were more or less done with these major changes and were content with keeping TF2 the way it is. I wouldn't mind a retooling of a good chunk of the alternative weapons, and their wording on the blog post has me excited for that.

Dead Ringer needed changing, which might come as a hard blow to some Spy mains who wouldn't conceive using anything else; playing on poor maps with servers that break the player count shouldn't be a defense for its use. It's just annoying to have to encounter lazy Spy players who don't even bother trying to hide the fact that they're using it feign away and run off with what is effectively god mode. The proposed change is brilliant as it doesn't hinder the DR's intended use, but requires more thought from the Spy as to his movement and hiding his use of it better.

The change may NOT effect me much, as for the most part I'm not using it at full health, but acting like I just got killed. Then again, I'm the type of spy that plays the part of the other team quite well, so I don't neglect disguises. Amazing to me how many spies with the DR don't try walking backwards to get past enemy lines, only pulling out the watch once they see the disguise has failed. If you act like a spy(always facing the enemy team), no shit you're going to be seen.


Though I'm also someone that has played spy so long I watched tons of youtube vids to get good at it. I know they excel at misdirection.


The only problem with this nerf really is the DR invisible time was already much shorter than the regular spy watches. Now if you're suddenly being hit more after, if you lose another 2 seconds of invisibility, it makes the watch practically worthless. Can hope they remove the loud buzzing when you decloak to counter this, but I doubt it. Sadly most players don't see this, they're just annoyed at spies and want nerfs. Sadly, good spies SHOULD be annoying you. The only time I get annoyed at with spies is when they're on my team and being bad, so my effectiveness greatly goes down as one.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Amazing to me how many spies with the DR don't try walking backwards to get past enemy lines, only pulling out the watch once they see the disguise has failed.

Try fake reloading while backpedalling, or disguise as Medic with melee out and spam Spy.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Move Those Votes Up!

Three weeks ago, we introduced an item import tool that lets item creators locally verify that their items meet a set of technical and performance standards. This helps item creators ensure that anything they create is more likely to be game-ready; and it also helps the community as a whole, by giving the TF2 team more time to devote to other aspects of the game.

Since we released the tool, this verification process (which grants items a “Gold Star”) has led to over 900 Gold Star Workshop submissions. We've been blown away by the speed and quality of the TF2 community's response.

Thanks to this verification system, we've been able to select a whopping 64 Gold Star items for this coming update. But how do we decide which to ship? Below, we've run this classy-looking Medic coat through a set of questions we ask when reviewing submissions. We hope this will give item creators and everyone voting in the Workshop a bit more insight into our decision-making process.

A classy medic coat and 63 other items, what more could we ask for

 

[sn00zer]

Lastly, Is your item Darth Vader's helmet? Because we don't own Star Wars. Here's a comprehensive list of other things we don't own: Everything that's not TF. Luckily, Darth Vader doesn't dress like a foppish 18th century rogue*, so this item's in the clear.

lol

 

[Rickenslacker]

That's a lotta items.

There's one in particular I'm hoping makes it in.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

That's a lotta items.

There's one in particular I'm hoping makes it in.

Is it the Falconer Punch? Because the Falconer Punch getting in would make someone very happy.

 

[blitzcloud]

Yet another Dr Enforcicle nerf.

I'm not sure nerfing DR was even a good idea. If anything, Spies need a general buff. DR was used because a lot of times it's the only viable watch.

cloak and dagger is ALWAYS an option. I can wait. and when they least expect it, BAM.

 

[Proven]

Move Those Votes Up!

A classy medic coat and 63 other items, what more could we ask for

I'd wear that coat every year on my birthday.

 

[NewGame]

CTRL/CMD+F "Vanilla launch mode" No Results Found.

They can balance all they want, and that's nice and all but the game kinda died for me with all the class updates and too many people wanting those instead of a balanced class-based game with defined roles.

This. This so hard. Disable all hats.

 

[rar]

tf2 sucks, scorpio sucks at tf2, scorpio sucks at making maps for tf2, scorpio sucks at dota, etc

 

[sleepykyo]

80% Spies use the Dead Ringer

God damn.

It was the most unpleasant surprise that I was greeted with upon revisiting TF2.

It's the only thing that allows spies to ignore damage that would kill a heavy. Not going to lie, as a horrible spy the dead ringer was my favorite watch. No other watch gives spies as much of a second chance upon discovery or the ability to face tank a solider/demo into blowing themselves up.

 

[Meia]

cloak and dagger is ALWAYS an option. I can wait. and when they least expect it, BAM.

Never cared for it, honestly. I get the usage of it, being able to hide in plain sight and wait for an opening is neat, but I find myself waiting TOO long to do much of anything. Even knowing that crouch walking greatly extends the distance you can go before you have to stop, I was never a fan of it. Rather use the regular watch and pac-man all the random metal pickups. This also really screws up engies in the area too.


Spies just need to learn how to play correctly, really. Even though a lot of the vids are outdated mechanically, omfgninja's tutorial vids really put it into my head the correct mindset to play the class in. Problem is the DR made a "dumber" playstyle valid, so who knows, maybe this will be a great improvement in the game for me if less people play spy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d87QCn_cafI Best vids ever.

 

[KarmaCow]

Does this item fit well within the TF universe? It might seem at first glance that the TF universe is pretty flexible—flexible enough, anyway, to accommodate a Victorian-era aristocrat costume for the Medic. However, there are limits. Photo-realistic items or overly cartoony items are just two examples of art styles that probably won't mesh with the TF2niverse.

I thought they gave up all pretense of a coherent style a while go.

 

[blitzcloud]

Never cared for it, honestly. I get the usage of it, being able to hide in plain sight and wait for an opening is neat, but I find myself waiting TOO long to do much of anything. Even knowing that crouch walking greatly extends the distance you can go before you have to stop, I was never a fan of it. Rather use the regular watch and pac-man all the random metal pickups. This also really screws up engies in the area too.


Spies just need to learn how to play correctly, really. Even though a lot of the vids are outdated mechanically, omfgninja's tutorial vids really put it into my head the correct mindset to play the class in. Problem is the DR made a "dumber" playstyle valid, so who knows, maybe this will be a great improvement in the game for me if less people play spy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d87QCn_cafI Best vids ever.

If you play a spy the way I do, it's essentially the biggest challenge. You infiltrate their defenses and attack from the shadows, predict their movements and sync with their bullets to decloak. The spy-cicle is clearly a need nowadays. It gives too much of a trace, but it's a nice spycheck lifesave.

 

[krameriffic]

Majority of people I play with have moved on to dota2.

Fascinating. Irrelevant in the face of the statistical fact that the player counts are stable, not dwindling, but fascinating nonetheless.

 

[BobTheSpy]

Am I the only spy who uses the stock watch? I prefer it!

 

[Grief.exe]

What dwindling player counts? It's been stable for the past year, outside of event spikes.

Majority of people I play with have moved on to dota2.

How is that a legitimate argument?

 

[Grinchy]

Am I the only spy who uses the stock watch? I prefer it!

Not the only one. There are at least 10 other people who still know how to actually play spy.

 

[Proven]

I thought they gave up all pretense of a coherent style a while go.

Surprisingly, most items do fit in the style. You could say it's subjunctive though. For example, the above Medic picture fits well in my opinion.

 

[Meia]

Not the only one. There are at least 10 other people who still know how to actually play spy.

It's tricky. I stick with the default kit for the most part(I do use the Tycho watch instead of the default spy watch just for it's look, has the same functionality), but I use a DR kit under situations where I'd have to switch to a different class otherwise.


It's why I question this 80%, and where they pulled it out from. Is it comparable to the 15% of the battalion thing, and that they're saying 80% of the spies use the item at points, not that they always have the equipped? Because if that's the case, yeah no crap, the DR functions like a lot of the other weapons should have all along for classes: A sidegrade you'd use in certain situations, or more if you like the playstyle. To me, the DR already has this status. But because I have it in one of the four loadouts, I guess they consider that I'm one of the 80%. Well no crap, there's only 3 different items for that loadout, and I'd be shocked if the cloak and dagger wasn't similar to the soldier's battalion item to begin with in terms of use.


Where are they actually getting this item use thing from anyway? 15% for the battalion is a low number, and I know that the item needs to be helped(soldier is my second most class played), but it's also in a slot that has like 7 other items, so even the most used % is going to be lower naturally. 80% DR is way less worse than it sounds given that.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Not the only one. There are at least 10 other people who still know how to actually play spy.

10? Let's not oversell it into double digit figures, Grinchy

 

[TheRedSnifit]

The only problem with this nerf really is the DR invisible time was already much shorter than the regular spy watches. Now if you're suddenly being hit more after, if you lose another 2 seconds of invisibility, it makes the watch practically worthless. Can hope they remove the loud buzzing when you decloak to counter this, but I doubt it. Sadly most players don't see this, they're just annoyed at spies and want nerfs. Sadly, good spies SHOULD be annoying you. The only time I get annoyed at with spies is when they're on my team and being bad, so my effectiveness greatly goes down as one.

This isn't a problem at all. A spy cloaked with the Dead Ringer takes virtually no damage, and is essentially unstoppable unless you're a Pyro. At least with the patch Spies will have to use some thinking.

I still find it ironic how DR spies claim the Cloak and Dagger is "for noobs".

EDIT: And let's not pretend that C&D and the stock Watch are somehow infeasible. The only problem with them is that they require strategy to use, which is why so many Spies ignore them.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

I'm honestly surprised still play TF2.
I just find it to be boring after 500 hours.

 

[gotoadgo]

I'm honestly surprised still play TF2.
I just find it to be boring after 500 hours.

It's like any online game, the better the community you're a part of the better the game is and the longer it lasts for you. I had made quite a few friends and played with them a lot in this game and it never got boring.

 

[Chinner]

I'm honestly surprised still play TF2.
I just find it to be boring after 500 hours.

1000 hours + and still happy bro

 

[Rickenslacker]

Is it the Falconer Punch? Because the Falconer Punch getting in would make someone very happy.

I'd love to see your concept art for that one. Though I was eyeballing the Shortest Straw.

 

[Wolf Akela]

I'd love to see your concept art for that one. Though I was eyeballing the Shortest Straw.

I'm personally disappointed The Motherly Father isn't gold-starred.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'd love to see your concept art for that one. Though I was eyeballing the Shortest Straw.

There isn't any, I just threw out the idea with a picture of a glove and got added as a contributor.

 

[Sigismundo]

I'm personally disappointed The Motherly Father isn't gold-starred.

This is still one of the lowest points of humanity.

 

[danmaku]

Surprisingly, most items do fit in the style. You could say it's subjunctive though. For example, the above Medic picture fits well in my opinion.

I'd say the Deus Ex items are really stretching the definition of "coherent style". They look way too high tech for the TF2 universe (compare them to the robots of MvM mode). Other than that, I can't think of any other item that feels out of place.