Nintendo of America not allowing SSBM to be streamed at EVO [Up: Decision Reversed]

*le child casually browsing internet*

*a wild mom appears*

Mom: "You don't have permission to casually browse internet"

Le Child: "I can browse internet pls?"

Mom: "Yes"

Le Child: "Ok!"

VS.

*le child casually browsing internet*

*wild mom appears*

Mom: "You can't casually browse internet"

Le child: "Ok..."


You guys can't be serious if you don't know the difference...

The problem here is that there are multiple interpretations of the phrasing "We’ve just been informed by Nintendo of America Inc. that we do not have permission to broadcast Super Smash Bros. Melee" floating around in the thread.

The stance you're taking, as I understand it, is that Nintendo could have said something along the lines of 'You do not have permission to Stream Smash Bros. without first filing an agreement" or maybe even "If it's not too much trouble, could you sign this agreement to stream our game, pretty please? If not, I'm really sorry, but I'm afraid we can't let you stream it." and that this was translated as 'We don't have permission, can't stream, sorry guys.'

The stance it seems most other people are taking is that Nintendo said "You don't have permission to stream our game."

You're accusing people of making assumptions (and by extension, accusing them of being wrong) when you yourself are making an assumption. I don't feel like you have successfully debunked the second camp of thought here by just arguing semantics.

I think there's a pretty convincing reasons to side with the second camp, myself.

- If Nintendo approached EVO and asked them to file a form or cooperate in some way, it doesn't seem very likely that the EVO folks would respond by saying "Nintendo told us we don't have permission, so we're not going to stream it. We've changed our schedule accordingly" and then sign the papers, return them, and say "Nevermind! Nintendo changed their mind." Possible? I guess. Likely? Questionable. You can give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt on this since we don't know the exact specifics, but most people are siding with the much more transparent side not mired in the legal jungle of an international corporation (EVO), rather than making the assumption that they're full of shit.

- Nintendo has a history of being weird about this. MLG Ran into a problem with it in the past, where Nintendo wouldn't allow them to stream Smash Bros. Brawl tournaments, if I recall correctly. Plenty of folks in this thread have already brought up their weird relationship with let's plays and the like. Their own website specifically mentions that they do not grant permission for use of their properties:
While we are grateful for all the requests for permission to use Nintendo properties, we are not able to grant such requests. We receive thousands of requests and we do not have adequate staffing to review them all. Therefore, our general policy is to decline requests for permission for the use of Nintendo properties.

Although we are not able to grant permission, use of Nintendo's properties without formal permission by Nintendo may still be allowed under the relevant laws of the particular jurisdiction involved. Thus, we encourage you to seek your own legal counsel if you have any questions about whether your particular proposed use is permitted without Nintendo's authorization. Nintendo cannot provide legal advice.

So when they say 'You don't have Permission', and the underlying tone is 'Our general policy is to decline requests for permission', things don't look promising. I included the second paragraph for transparency, but I don't really think it applies.

I feel a bit like you're saying "You can't assume anything, so I'm going to assume the positive," which isn't a very conductive argument if you genuinely want to have a debate about it.
 
Well if the game people play is Melee, then they are not practicing on Wii U and 3DS. People will buy used Melee Copy and play the game there, which reduce the sales for the Wii U version. Even more when Sakurai said that he do not want an another Melee, in term of competition, with Wii U and 3DS.

Haven't played/really followed Smash games, just thinking of publicity/rep for the reminder of getting taken a bit seriously. So my thinking could very well be flawed.

The new game pretty much a buy for sure based on how much friends love em.
 
The problem here is that you are also making assumptions.
Everybody is making assumptions, the difference is that I acknowledge my assumptions as honest guesses. I don't pretend to know what happened behind the scenes.

Going by this, it's really pretty clear that Nintendo gave them an ultimatum (do not stream or we will enact penalties) rather than a "heads up".
I didn't think Nintendo was giving them a heads up either, but at the same time I don't think Nintendo pulled the Melee stream with the intentions of keeping it that way. I don't believe that it was an absolute basically.

You're accusing people of making assumptions (and by extension, accusing them of being wrong) when you yourself are making an assumption.
Hold on now, don't get it twisted. What I am accusing people of is taking their assumptions as fact. I, however, don't claim to know anything. I am simply arguing the POSSIBILITY that the people taking their assumptions as fact are wrong. I am arguing that this situation is very grey and nobody should be taking it as black and white.
 
Everybody is making assumptions, the difference is that I acknowledge my assumptions as honest guesses. I don't pretend to know what happened behind the scenes.


I didn't think Nintendo was giving them a heads up either, but at the same time I don't think Nintendo pulled the Melee stream with the intentions of keeping it that way. I don't believe that it was an absolute basically.

You dont really change a schedule if its not serious. Its the backlash that made Nintendo backpedal.
 
I feel like alternate realities are being spawned in front of my eyes.
 
Everybody is making assumptions, the difference is that I acknowledge my assumptions as honest guesses. I don't pretend to know what happened behind the scenes.


I didn't think Nintendo was giving them a heads up either, but at the same time I don't think Nintendo pulled the Melee stream with the intentions of keeping it that way. I don't believe that it was an absolute basically.

Of course from the basis I see that you took Nintendo not intentionally wanting to keep it that way all the time, using the term permission, you made a guess at business debates.

In my opinion, I think the permission would be applied to multiple years instead, longer term, and for whatever reason Nintendo would have pulled permission this year, in coming years they (EVO) may have permission to stream again at Nintendo's consent. I don't think you can apply the permission argument to just one year and make the assumptions based upon a shorter scale of time.

I think Nintendo were trying to impose a longer term policy here , due to the fact they used the word permission, if we are arguing semantics.

Of course I am now making assumptions upon assumptions :P
 
Hold on now, don't get it twisted. What I am accusing people of is taking their assumptions as fact. I, however, don't claim to know anything. I am simply arguing the POSSIBILITY that the people taking their assumptions as fact are wrong. I am arguing that this situation is very grey and nobody should be taking it as black and white.

Fair enough, I guess. The question becomes, do you have a good reason to believe another possibility? If you're just suggesting scenarios that might exist because, hey, we don't know 100% of the story, I think that's a bit disingenuous, especially given that people are definitely supporting why they are interpreting the situation the way they are.

It's possible that Aliens possessed someone at Nintendo HQ long enough to send the EVO Folks a nasty e-mail saying they can't stream SSBM. Nobody is bringing that angle up, however.
 
Of course from the basis I see that you took Nintendo not intentionally wanting to keep it that way all the time, using the term permission, you made a guess at business debates.

In my opinion, I think the permission would be applied to multiple years instead, longer term, and for whatever reason Nintendo would have pulled permission this year, in coming years they (EVO) may have permission to stream again at Nintendo's consent. I don't think you can apply the permission argument to just one year and make the assumptions based upon a shorter scale of time.

I think Nintendo were trying to impose a longer term policy here , due to the fact they used the word permission, if we are arguing semantics.

Of course I am now making assumptions upon assumptions :P
Anything is possible. You could be right, I could be right, most people in this thread could very well be right. The point I'm trying make is that this situation is grey, and I wish people would stop taking it as black and white and believing that black (In this situation black would mean Nintendo took away the EVO stream for control reasons I guess) is the only possibility. It is grey.
 
Fair enough, I guess. The question becomes, do you have a good reason to believe another possibility? If you're just suggesting scenarios that might exist because, hey, we don't know 100% of the story, I think that's a bit disingenuous, especially given that people are definitely supporting why they are interpreting the situation the way they are.

It's possible that Aliens possessed someone at Nintendo HQ long enough to send the EVO Folks a nasty e-mail saying they can't stream SSBM. Nobody is bringing that angle up, however.

Nah man, reverse lizardmen sprayed the building with chem trails. Visit Nintendotruth.net man.
 
Anything is possible. You could be right, I could be right, most people in this thread could very well be right. The point I'm trying make is that this situation is grey, and I wish people would stop taking it as black and white and believing that black (In this situation black would mean Nintendo took away the EVO stream for control reasons I guess) is the only possibility. It is grey.

Gah seems you're banned, and we were just getting to the bottom of it.

Bytheway, I enjoyed your discussion, no matter the distaste from my initial impressions and to others in this thread.
 
Gah seems you're banned, and we were just getting to the bottom of it.

Bytheway, I enjoyed your discussion, no matter the distaste from my initial impressions and to others in this thread.
I think we got to the bottom of it a long time ago. The guy was living in an alternate reality and talking to us through a tiny opening between dimensions that only allowed him to post on NeoGAF.
 
Gah seems you're banned, and we were just getting to the bottom of it.

Bytheway, I enjoyed your discussion, no matter the distaste from my initial impressions and to others in this thread.

Yeah, the hostility and unwillingness for them to explain their stance toward the beginning was a bit much, but they were willing to argue toward the end.

Also, I'm interested in language and such so having an unusual interpretation (to me, at least) of common words/phrases made me curious.
 
The problem here is that there are multiple interpretations of the phrasing "We’ve just been informed by Nintendo of America Inc. that we do not have permission to broadcast Super Smash Bros. Melee" floating around in the thread.

The stance you're taking, as I understand it, is that Nintendo could have said something along the lines of 'You do not have permission to Stream Smash Bros. without first filing an agreement" or maybe even "If it's not too much trouble, could you sign this agreement to stream our game, pretty please? If not, I'm really sorry, but I'm afraid we can't let you stream it." and that this was translated as 'We don't have permission, can't stream, sorry guys.'

The stance it seems most other people are taking is that Nintendo said "You don't have permission to stream our game."

You're accusing people of making assumptions (and by extension, accusing them of being wrong) when you yourself are making an assumption. I don't feel like you have successfully debunked the second camp of thought here by just arguing semantics.

I think there's a pretty convincing reasons to side with the second camp, myself.

- If Nintendo approached EVO and asked them to file a form or cooperate in some way, it doesn't seem very likely that the EVO folks would respond by saying "Nintendo told us we don't have permission, so we're not going to stream it. We've changed our schedule accordingly" and then sign the papers, return them, and say "Nevermind! Nintendo changed their mind." Possible? I guess. Likely? Questionable. You can give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt on this since we don't know the exact specifics, but most people are siding with the much more transparent side not mired in the legal jungle of an international corporation (EVO), rather than making the assumption that they're full of shit.

- Nintendo has a history of being weird about this. MLG Ran into a problem with it in the past, where Nintendo wouldn't allow them to stream Smash Bros. Brawl tournaments, if I recall correctly. Plenty of folks in this thread have already brought up their weird relationship with let's plays and the like. Their own website specifically mentions that they do not grant permission for use of their properties:


So when they say 'You don't have Permission', and the underlying tone is 'Our general policy is to decline requests for permission', things don't look promising. I included the second paragraph for transparency, but I don't really think it applies.

I feel a bit like you're saying "You can't assume anything, so I'm going to assume the positive," which isn't a very conductive argument if you genuinely want to have a debate about it.
Very well said.

Nintendo reminds me of Disney where they send cease and desist letters to anybody that may have possibly used, or thought about using, their IPs. I remember a couple years ago when they sued a kindergarten for painting Mickey on the wall. I guess my point is these companies only make money because of their characters and IPs so they tend to be incredibly protective of them. Shoot (a cease and desist letter) first and ask questions later. My guess is EVO showed up on their radar and Nintendo's first reaction was "no" like they tell the other hundred thousand people who want to use their IPs for something. My other guess is that they saw how it was becoming a PR nightmare with gamers raising a lot of money for cancer prevention and being smacked down by Nintendo, and so reversed their decision. I'm sure there was no thought involved when they said no, but they were forced to consider it and came to the correct decision. I'm not surprised about them saying no originally, but I'm pretty darn surprised they reversed their decision. The power of the Internet I suppose.
 
As a french guy, every misused le is like a stab in my gut.
tumblr_m9syoqrpVb1rrpsd7.gif

But just to be sure, since I saw some websites with double update.
They can or cannot stream Melee?

You poor soul.

If Macklemore could write a song that fights against homo-phobia, I'm sure we can get one to raise awareness against francophonic slurs. Call it, "Same Language"

Seriously though. After we as society can collectively stop using 'gay' as slander against one another, we really need to stop using 'le' if the rest of our text/conversation isn't also in French.

I'd like to say though that it seems Triforce posted on Twitter about the interview he got with Reggie and his views on the competitive fighting game scene and it will be with that place you Go to for Nintendo news.
 
No fucking way.

Apparently so! It was their legal department, however. Mr.Wizard stated that he was in talks with some folks in Nintendo weeks/months ago and got approval from them already. Mr.Wizard also said they obviously avoided the legal department but as you can see, they couldn't quite dodge them it seems.

Thank fucking GOD it did not happen at all. Had Nintendo gotten their way and had the whole tournament canceled, can you imagine how much bigger the outrage would have been?
 
Yea, it also clarified that EVO didn't try to get into touch with anyone and that it was the legal department that got a hold of them to shut it down.

Can't rewind it 'cause it's a live stream, but didn't Mr. Wizard say he did talk to people at Nintendo, just not the legal department, since he was afraid they would shut it down immediately ('cause they probably would've).
 
Can't rewind it 'cause it's a live stream, but didn't Mr. Wizard say he did talk to people at Nintendo, just not the legal department, since he was afraid they would shut it down immediately ('cause they probably would've).

he didn't clarify, left it very ambiguous. lots of smaller people at nintendo that obviously have no say in anything whatsoever that are pretty easy to get a hold of.

Wait, does he mean EVO or the SMASH part of EVO? Either way, that would have been horrible.

smash part
 
Whoa.......... Just dropped in to see the news really quick and ran into one of the weirdest GAF threads in a while.

Anything is possible. You could be right, I could be right, most people in this thread could very well be right. The point I'm trying make is that this situation is grey, and I wish people would stop taking it as black and white and believing that black (In this situation black would mean Nintendo took away the EVO stream for control reasons I guess) is the only possibility. It is grey.
Why go round and round endlessly about assumptions, though? That's how you get banned.

We have years of Nintendo's past behavior that strongly shows this is a cease and decist. That's my assumption.
 
Either way, legal department confirmed to be dumb.

yea no surprise there, a bunch of people who shouldn't and don't understand gaming nor social media. nintendo really needs to step it up with the marketing outreach. it's almost embarrassing how many opportunities for positive press they're missing out on by being so oblivious.
 
Do nintendo even have community people in their employ like capcom and other companies do like s.kill? It would go a LONG way to avoiding boneheaded mistakes like this that antagonize their biggest supporters.
 
*le child casually browsing internet*

*a wild mom appears*

Mom: "You don't have permission to casually browse internet"

Le Child: "I can browse internet pls?"

Mom: "Yes"

Le Child: "Ok!"

VS.

*le child casually browsing internet*

*wild mom appears*

Mom: "You can't casually browse internet"

Le child: "Ok..."


You guys can't be serious if you don't know the difference...

did you just seriously do this?
 
Do nintendo even have community people in their employ like capcom and other companies do like s.kill? It would go a LONG way to avoiding boneheaded mistakes like this that antagonize their biggest supporters.

There was that one fellow on Twitter, @Sempuukyaku, who says he has some connections way, way up there and acts as Nintendo street representative in Seattle. He was very vocal in getting people to call Nintendo Customer service with regards to the incident before they pulled the U-turn
 
Do nintendo even have community people in their employ like capcom and other companies do like s.kill? It would go a LONG way to avoiding boneheaded mistakes like this that antagonize their biggest supporters.

That's what I'm wondering, I can't believe Nintendo doesn't have community managers to deal with these non-issues. You can't let the legal department decides what's ok and what's not.
 
Okay, so just the Smash portion.

Still...holy fuck no wonder those Nintendo ninja lawyers are so notorious. They must be tweaking 24/7 just to have a small reason to pounce.

It wasn't just Smash part. Nintendo wanted to shut down the entire event, Nintendo settled on just not allowing Smash to be streamed.
 
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