Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS: Info Collection - Dojo, Mega Man and Trailer! 2014!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
peanutbutterlatte
Member
No, he knows full well what he meant to say.
Samurai_Heart
Member
That Melee stream was interesting but Smash Bros without the items makes me sad XD the essence of Smash for me is chaos lol
It isn't really Smash Bros. without items. This is particularly true in Melee, which had a very well-designed set of items. The Melee items added a staggering amount of depth to the gameplay. Beating up an enemy is one thing, beating up an enemy while remembering the exact position of the mine they placed forty seconds ago is a lot more complicated.
My biggest gripe about Brawl isn't that they slowed down the combat, got rid of wave-dashing, or anything like that. My biggest complaint was that it simply had a worse selection of stages and items than Melee. The items in Brawl were two random, they tended to be either overpowered or useless, and on top of that, they lacked sufficient visual distinction. Items in Brawl were not as fun.
I liked the stream more when oddball characters duked it out. That Dr. Mario mirror match during the pools was amazing, and that DK vs Fox match was fun to watch as well. Otherwise, I skipped most matches which only had Marths, Sheiks and space animals in them.
Watching them playing in generic stages most of the time made me think about how good a stage hazard toggle would be in smash 4, if only to give more variety to the game.
That said, I still think the N64 Metroid stage hasn't been topped by its successors. Brinstar Depths was kind of fun (too bad the lava at the bottom was merely decorative), but the other stage sucked, and Brawl's stages were kind of boring as well. It'd be great if we could get all stages from previous Smash games back, or at least a better selection than the ones we got in the previous titles. Saffron City should be in there somewhere, if only because the game needs more asymetrical stages rather than just countless Battlefield variations.
EDIT: @SkyOdin: Yeah, I think the Melee items were more balanced as well. I often find myself removing way too many items from the game simply because they're way too powerful or boring compared to the rest (ie: fans, soccer balls, bumpers and dragoon parts). I still remember when Adventure mode enemies could pop out of crates very rarely... that was one strange but fun feature (I think the spawn percentages were abysmally low, though).
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
A stage hazard toggle would be brilliant. Wow.
Shadow Hog
Member
Was rather disappointed with that final round. Boo Fox.
MisterLuffy
Member
Yeah, I wanted Wobbles to win.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I'd prefer hazards that weren't bloody stupid, personally.
Wobbles has that chain grab, but really nothing else. Couldn't guard the edge or maintain stage control at all. I was rooting for him too though. Now that he and Armada are both retired, Hungrybox is really the only person to root for that doesn't main a Star Fox character.
I know a lot of people want Mewtwo to return, but what if, along with Mewtwo's return, Genesect becomes the Gen V representative? He would be a great character if you think about it.
One of his moves could be somewhat similar to Fox' side B or Pikachu's up b. And for those moves he goes into that flying saucer mode to do them. I just think Genesect would be cool as a newcomer for Pokemon. He's a Steel Bug after all, and Mewtwo's Rival now.
One of his moves could be somewhat similar to Fox' side B or Pikachu's up b. And for those moves he goes into that flying saucer mode to do them. I just think Genesect would be cool as a newcomer for Pokemon. He's a Steel Bug after all, and Mewtwo's Rival now.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
Genesect's going to be a Poké Ball summon -- I'm sure of it. He arrived too late to properly represent Black/White in a playable capacity. I still think Zoroark's more likely than people give it credit for. Pokémon is big enough to warrant two new characters, and it would be bizarre for Sakurai to gloss over an entire generation that sold tens of millions of copies. At the very least, I think Zoroark might be planned in the way that Plusle & Minun were slated for Brawl.
Case and point, spear pillar.
I loved that stage right up until they flipped it upside down or sideways. Ever since then I dreaded going back to that stage...
Hey guys, what if the Wii U game gets a Wara Wara Plaza stage while the 3DS game gets Swapnote stage???
Can't imagine how the Swapnote one would work. Can you elaborate?
dryuriev7777
Member
So the next Pokemon Stadium stage, what type themes should it have? The first Stadium stage had grass, water, fire, and rock and the second Stadium had electric, flying, ground, and ice.
Along the lines of Pictochat from Brawl
Ghost would be cool. They could do some disappearing platforms or something.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Yup. Brawl's items simply weren't fun or satisfying to use. The only times I've ever played against friends w/o items was in Brawl.
I'd love to see some high level matches using items. If there was a way to control item spawning so that the players knew when and where certain items would appear, that could keep randomization to a minimum
I've been hoping for this for a while
The fan was completely broken in Brawl. How did they let that slip?
lol seriously It's the most useless item in the entire series. I forgot it even existed until now.
lol seriously It's the most useless item in the entire series. I forgot it even existed until now.
It could be useful by making it so coming in contact with the smoke causes damage.
Now that's a good item!
Smoke ball might be cool if it filled more area and actually made it hard to see. Could lead to funny moments. In Brawl it was laughably useless though.
Lip's Stick already does that.
Thanks, mate!
This is a good 'un too, in the silly category of items. Could lead to glorious snapshots too.
I don't mean that if you come in contact with the smoke you become "poisoned" or anything. I was thinking something more in the lines of 64's Koffing. And if you're in control of the Smoke Ball, you could throw it at your rivals, tossing damage around.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Speaking of stages, is there anyone that actually likes huge stages like New Pork City, 75m, or Hyrule Temple? I feel like both 1v1 competitive and FFA casual types hate those stages.
Hyrule Temple's an absolute classic between me and my friends, but 75m does little for us, and we actively hate New Pork City.
It's not just that it's too huge for its own good, the layout is as uninteresting and disorganized as it gets. Stage Builder vibes there.
On the subject of stages, this is something which I'm sure, has been discussed plenty, but it always struck me as odd how Sakurai seemed to love the --- ___ --- template for Brawl stages' layouts, and did little in the way of Melee's crazy Brinstar Depths, Big Blue or Poké Floats. Especially because of his more casual approach to Brawl.
Hyrule temple is actually fun for 4 way and 1 vs 1 in that bottom section lol while the other 2 sucks horribly for any kind of battle. Pork is too absurdly big and 75m had too many small platforms IMO.
Love Hyrule Temple.
spyroflame0487
Member
Wara Wara plaza could have you fighting in the middle with Miis (randomly selected ones from both your own console as well as random ones in general or used from other players playing the game would be awesome) in the background. If they had to have a stage hazard on it like Pictochat, they could have giant icons for some of the games that are on the Wii U appear above and then spin, possibly falling down. And to not lose that bit of 4th wall breaking, they could have the icon for smash come down...maybe even release a Smash Ball.
Swapnote would be cool...maybe Nikki would appear or little notes would fly in occasionally and you can grab them and throw them/ they'd hit all players. It'd be also cool if they imported your own swap notes to appear and they'd be drawn in the background. *Yes..that means you probably should delete all your lewd swapnotes*
If not Swapnote, the Streetpass Plaza would be awesome. With that new update we got, they've got a fountain and everything perfect for a stage. Puzzle pieces could fly in/dropped by the birds, which would hit players, or Find Mii stuff could appear (Ie, Dark Emperor, Dark Lord could appear, do some sort of roaring attack/spew fire. You'd see your Mii King in the background fighting with the dogs/cats/rabbits against him, and he'd occasionally fly closer to the stage and attack the players)
There's so many fun things they could do with 3DS stages..hopefully they'll show off some more of them in the near future.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I think 75m is pretty fun (I hope it returns actually), but New Pork City was just awful. Such a good concept, but the stage was so sparse and disorganized. Too much empty space.
Hyrule Temple is amazing, my second favorite level.
New Pork City is awful all around.
Spring-Loaded
Member
yeah, NPC was bad. Something Temple is amazing though. Most of the stage gets used during fights and the central area was pure chaos.
They should have a "Mushroomy Kingdom"-esque version of 75m where the backdrop is a cityscape and the girders are actually attached to the frame of a building
DICKS AHOY
Banned
75M and the temple are excellent stages, New Pork City is nearly unplayable shit which spoils Mother 3's ending to the international fanbase. Shame since I like the music and it looks nice.
Assuming veteran stages come back the same way there was one for each of the original ten franchises in Brawl, what would people want? Personally:
Delfino Plaza
Great Ocean
Poke Floats
Halberd
75M
Yoshi's Island (SNES version from Brawl)
Brinstar Depths
Venom
Port Town
Fourside
NeonZ
Member
A stage hazard toggle has already been confirmed to been confirmed to not happen. Sakurai even mentioned the Playstation game while mentioning that and there was a topic here about it.
"Brawl was aimed at casuals" was something that Sakurai only started saying years after the game's launch. Interviews leading to the launch, and even during the launch period have quotes from him talking about how Smash Bros isn't going alongside Nintendo's casual direction in order to stand out better, but will focus on a more traditional gamer, to be a different kind of content compared to the other things Nintendo was doing at the time, etc. It was even his explanation for not including Miis. He even highlighted the higher difficulty in single player Intense mode.
The idea that Brawl was aimed at casuals seems to be pretty much Sakurai trying to save face to online communities.
"Brawl was aimed at casuals" was something that Sakurai only started saying years after the game's launch. Interviews leading to the launch, and even during the launch period have quotes from him talking about how Smash Bros isn't going alongside Nintendo's casual direction in order to stand out better, but will focus on a more traditional gamer, to be a different kind of content compared to the other things Nintendo was doing at the time, etc. It was even his explanation for not including Miis. He even highlighted the higher difficulty in single player Intense mode.
The idea that Brawl was aimed at casuals seems to be pretty much Sakurai trying to save face to online communities.
So why tripping?
Until you combine it with Snake's final smash, that is. He gets right in front of the camera, so the smoke obscures nearly everything while you shoot your twelve grenades. That's just about the only use I can think of for it.
I'd love to see a new version of Brinstar Depths where the lower area has lava over it so you can't get stuck in a lower platform until Kraid happens to tilt the stage again.
I agree that Hyrule Temple was a fun stage, but New Pork City's blast zones are way too far away from most platforms. 75m feels to me like a stage of absolute trolling... honestly, why did all platforms have to be one-way only? I only end up choosing it online when I feel like making everybody feel miserable.
Mushroomy Kingdom was another of the stages I honestly never managed to wrap my head around. Being forced to stay on the move isn't fun when you're slower than your opponent, and the auto-scrolling facilitates very cheap deaths (ie: throwing opponents to the left)... I'd much rather have SSB64 or Melee's stages than Brawl's, and Delfino Plaza didn't feel that interesting compared to the other ones, either.
Man, the tin foil hat theories of gamers. I'm pretty sure Sakurai doesn't give two shakes about online communities enough to lie about his purposes for creating the game. If what you're saying is true. The first comment is obviously in comparison to the casual friendly games Nintendo was popular for at the time. And his latest comments details the comparison between Brawl and what he calls (and has always called) the hardcore Melee.
I think most developers care about their legacy and how they're remembered. Sakurai especially since his whole breaking off from Nintendo and forming Project Sora seemed to be a pride thing, wanting to create a big name for himself, etc. I don't think that theory is completely impossible. He might've looked back on his work and felt like he made some obvious mistakes. It's common for people to re-write their mistakes post-release. They don't have to admit they messed up.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
No clue why they went with regular Brinstar when you already had Norfair with a nearly identical theme and layout. The revolving stage idea was cool as hell.
NeonZ
Member
Although you're correct about his comparison with the Wii series titles in that quote, he also compared Brawl to Melee. Here are some quotes from the Iwata Asks about Brawl:
Note especially the last one, which is actually comparing it to Melee directly. Sakurai never said anything about Melee being too complex and Brawl being made to simplify it until years after Brawl's release. The only times he references Brawl being casual and accessible, he talks about the Smash Bros series in general, not Brawl specifically being made more casual.
Sakurai seems very connected to gaming trends and systems (remember how he showcased having every system in the old Sora HQ?). I don't think someone like that would have no online presence. So, I think it's very possible that online reactions could have caused him to change his position regarding those games.