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Juror says Zimmerman went "above and beyond" and has "learned a good lesson"

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MThanded said:
I wanted to see the replies to your post. I wasn't insinuating anything about your post.
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Do you have an answer though? Let's go through the facts...

1. It was raining, and dark outside
2. Holy shit do those houses all look alike
3. Even GZ couln't determine where the fuck he was
4. He was new to the neighborhood

If I knew where I lived and someone was following me, I'd make a straight beeline there. I don't think TM doubled back to confront GZ, I think he accidentally doubled back because he couldn't get a bearing on where the fuck he was because of points 1-4 above and because you don't exactly think clearly when you're stressed out (someone creepy following you).
 
kirblar said:
If a man with a gun is stalking me, running away is not an option if a confrontation arises. I keep seeing the same terrible logic that school administators use when kids react to bullies over and over in these threads.
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If Trayvon Martin saw that Zimmerman had a gun and knew that the neighborhood had a recent crime spree, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to go on the offensive, especially if he was afraid. I'm not sure about whether or not Zimmerman clearly stated who he was in a calm and civil manner, but if he's a dude with a gun following a young man in the rain THAT LIVES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, how do you think that the young man that lives in the neighborhood is going to react?

Zimmerman is responsible for Martin's death...it seems pretty obvious to anyone.

Also, if it were a black man killing a young man, this trial wouldn't even have made the news. He would have been in jail quicker than the media could even get there, sentenced and fucked for life.
 
The way the Jury Decided its as if it was a Rape case and the Jury decided to judge the Rape victim for wearing skimpy clothes rather than judging the rapist for Raping the victim
 
kirblar said:
If a man with a gun is stalking me, running away is not an option if a confrontation arises. I keep seeing the same terrible logic that school administators use when kids react to bullies over and over in these threads.
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What confrontation arose before the fight though? Seems to me like Martin could've ran.

Not saying it's not Zimmerman's fault though, he should have gotten manslaughter.
 
Polari said:
Apart from the pro-gun stuff, what exactly is wrong with this?

From my read she's saying:

1. She didn't believe race was a factor, but rather Zimmerman was simply acting in his role as Neighbourhood Watch. Regardless of your personal interpretation, this seems like a fair view to have based on the evidence available.

2. Zimmerman was overzealous and holds some responsibility for what occurred. This however, doesn't carry comment on who she believes initiated the violence. This is a key point where self-defence is concerned: who took the first swing? The truth is none of us know. If I think a guy is following me, do I then have the right to turn around and punch him? Is that self-defence? Does he have a right to punch me back? Is that also self-defence?

3. That both of them hold some responsibility for what evolved. I also don't see this as particularly controversial. If cooler heads had prevailed on both sides this tragedy wouldn't have happened. Is anyone going to argue against that?
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I'll have a crack at 3.

I think both of them were responsible for the situation they got themselves into,” she added. “I think they each could have made the decision to walk away.
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Why didn't Zim walk away when ordered to by police?

Also point 2 is filled with hypocrisy.


Zim is partially at fault.
Irrelevant because what matters to B37 is who initiated violence.
You emphasize the previous sentence is important and shouldn't be ignored.
You then state since no one saw it besides the 2 parties we can't make a decision either way.
[hypocrisy starts here]
You start asking a hypothetical about what you, and by extension us, would do in their shoes. This hypothetical already assumes Trayvon attacked first in your own words even though you stated earlier Zimmerman could've been the attacker.
 
wildfire said:
I'll have a crack at 3.



Why didn't Zim walk away when ordered to by police?

Also point 2 is filled with hypocrisy.


Zim is partially at fault.
Irrelevant because what matters to B37 is who initiated violence.
You emphasize the previous sentence is important and shouldn't be ignored.
You then state since no one saw it besides the 2 parties we can't make a decision either way.
[hypocrisy starts here]
You start asking a hypothetical about what you, and by extension us, would do in their shoes. This hypothetical already assumes Trayvon attacked first in your own words even though you stated earlier Zimmerman could've been the attacker.
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He wasn't ordered by the police to do anything. People seem to keep forgetting this.
 
Polari said:
Uh... so what exactly are you going to do if faced with this scenario then?
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Attack the gun wielding stalker before they can draw down on you. It's the only sensible option left in that scenario. Running will just get you shot in the back by some wackjob.
 
All I got from this was, "That nigger had no business walking around. It's unfortunate but shit happens. Oh well, Zimmerman learned a lesson."
 
kirblar said:
If a man with a gun is stalking me, running away is not an option if a confrontation arises. I keep seeing the same terrible logic that school administators use when kids react to bullies over and over in these threads.
Click to expand...
If a man with a gun is following you to murder you and is perfectly fine with shooting you as you flee, why hasn't he shot you yet? probably because flight is still a strong option on the table and pretending to be jackie chan will just get you killed.
 
CharlieDigital said:
So you are saying that you wouldn't feel your life in danger on a dark, rainy night with a stranger tailing you?
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If someone is simply following me? No, absolutely not. I would feel concerned, but to jump to the conclusion that your life is in danger is an unreasonable overreaction.
 
Omegasquash said:
A young man is dead, but Zimmerman learned his lesson. WTF is that?
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The adult in the situation really fucking goofed and it cost someone their life and nothing happened to him....to me the adult is responsible for the generation coming up why would an adult follow and not immediately ask Trayvon from the car he was following him in " excuse me im neighborhood watch, there have been x amt of vandalism going on here , ive been keeping my eye out for them ive never seen you before do you live here" . And its over, even if trayvon is disrespectful and tells him to eat shit, you report that to the police and let them investigate. Its not like anything he was worried about Martin was doing, even if it was theft/ vandalism or whatever was worth more than his life. So yes after you feel something is strange and call the police you sit down since you're scared to approach a child straight up and say hey this is the situation. If you have a gun and are following a teen you are not built to confront people any other adult knows that teenagers are still children upstairs , many grow a lot but they are still growing up mentally and emotionally in the mind, and they are under the protection of the adults they live around. He fucked up.

I dont even know half the teens in my neighborhood but they're kids , they are under my protection , they could come to me for help , and i can approach and talk to them in a position of authority and as an adult geezus. This guy called the cops and followed him in his car...really? Martins texts alone make Zimmerman seems suspect , for a kid to notice the same guy following him is pretty creepy. He lacks the ability to see beyond his immediate frame of time , Zimmerman seems ....delayed mentally. You got the guy cased his close description, police on the way, theres 3 streets in your little community...too much. I dont think he is a demon murderer but he is an apathetic moron with a gun and for the life he took he should have to make amends.
 
wildfire said:
I'll have a crack at 3.

Why didn't Zim walk away when ordered to by police?

Also point 2 is filled with hypocrisy.


Zim is partially at fault.
Irrelevant because what matters to B37 is who initiated violence.
You emphasize the previous sentence is important and shouldn't be ignored.
You then state since no one saw it besides the 2 parties we can't make a decision either way.
[hypocrisy starts here]
You start asking a hypothetical about what you, and by extension us, would do in their shoes. This hypothetical already assumes Trayvon attacked first in your own words even though you stated earlier Zimmerman could've been the attacker.
Click to expand...

Yes, good point.
 
I still don't quite understand how/why the jury was only 6 people. Did that have to do with the size of the voting/selection pool in Sanford or something?
 
I heard that shit yesterday and had to change the channel. Chicks actually believed every word that fucking dude said. I still can't fathom how that 6 mostly white females was supposed to be a jury of their peers and the State cosigned that shit. It was doomed from the jump.
 
Polari said:
1. She didn't believe race was a factor, but rather Zimmerman was simply acting in his role as Neighbourhood Watch. Regardless of your personal interpretation, this seems like a fair view to have based on the evidence available.
Click to expand...

It isn't a fair view to have, the reasons Zimmerman believed that Trayvon was one of the burglars are because he looked suspicious and because he thought he was black. He calls the police stating he sees a kid acting suspiciously when asked about the race he thinks that he's black. He drew connected the dots and came to the conclusion that Trayvon must have been the one who burgled their neighbours, how is it not about race?
 
Meier said:
I still don't quite understand how/why the jury was only 6 people. Did that have to do with the size of the voting/selection pool in Sanford or something?
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12 jurors are required only for capital cases when the death penalty is being considered (in Florida)
 
I really don't understand what is so "shocking" about any of this .. At the end of the day the jury had only one question to ask themselves. Did Zimmerman have any fear for his life when he pulled the trigger. The conclusion they came to was "yes" he was in fear for his life. It doesn't matter who profiled who, who was doing or saying what, or who started what. Nothing else matters at that point. That is the way the "stand your ground" law works. Who cares what a juror said, or what her children are doing. The law is what it is. End of story.

Yeah I don't care about that law myself and if you want that law changed (if your state upholds it) Then make yourself heard to change it.
 
Pandaman said:
If a man with a gun is following you to murder you and is perfectly fine with shooting you as you flee, why hasn't he shot you yet? probably because flight is still a strong option on the table and pretending to be jackie chan will just get you killed.
Click to expand...

I think he was kidding.

Well, I hope.
 
BrokenEchelon said:
He wasn't ordered by the police to do anything. People seem to keep forgetting this.
Click to expand...

You're right it wasn't an order but the dispatcher said they needed him to stop following the kid.

The dispatcher failed to say it as a command but it was clear that from their perspective he shouldn't be following the kid in the first place and creating a more complex scenario.

Maninthemirror said:
she said in the interview that All but one juror thought it was GZ
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Well this helps reveal the prevailing sentiment of the jury and why half of them gave up on pushing for a conviction.
 
Meier said:
I still don't quite understand how/why the jury was only 6 people. Did that have to do with the size of the voting/selection pool in Sanford or something?
Click to expand...
Only murder 1 gets 12. Sanford wasn't pooled or you would have seen way more minorities and men on the jury.
 
Gold_Loot said:
I really don't understand what is so "shocking" about any of this .. At the end of the day the jury had only one question to ask themselves. Did Zimmerman have any fear for his life when he pulled the trigger. The conclusion they came to was "yes" he was in fear for his life. It doesn't matter who profiled who, who was doing or saying what, or who started what. Nothing else matters at that point. That is the way the "stand your ground" law works. Who cares what a juror said, or what her children are doing. The law is what it is. End of story.

Yeah I don't care about that law myself and if you want that law changed (if your state upholds it) Then make yourself heard to change it.
Click to expand...

So if I who look like an Arab go in with a full beard in Sanford to a local park and a white guy feels I am a threat to him because of the way I look, dressed and all and he has a gun and shoots me on the basis that he thought I was an imminent threat to him and his children, I die and he gets acquitted?
 
wildfire said:
You're right it wasn't an order but the dispatcher said they needed him to stop following the kid.

The dispatcher failed to say it as a command but it was clear that from their perspective he shouldn't be following the kid in the first place and creating a more complex scenario.
Click to expand...

Didn't the dispatcher say "We don't need you to do that?"

Either way, the problem with constantly claiming that the police (the dispatcher is a civilian) ordered GZ to do something which he disobeyed is a misrepresentation of the truth. Using it as an argument muddles whatever other points you're making by essentially using a falsehood as part of your argument.

He should have listened to the dispatcher, but it's pretty obvious to me what he was thinking: "If I stay here, the fucker will get away, if I wait for the cops, the fucker will get away, I need to do something"

Again, not judging his actions, just viewing the situation objectively.
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
It isn't a fair view to have, the reasons Zimmerman believed that Trayvon was one of the burglars are because he looked suspicious and because he thought he was black. He calls the police stating he sees a kid acting suspiciously when asked about the race he thinks that he's black. He drew connected the dots and came to the conclusion that Trayvon must have been the one who burgled their neighbours, how is it not about race?
Click to expand...

What's to say it wasn't because he was a hoodie-wearing teenager rather than a black hoodie-wearing teenager?
 
cdkee said:
These jurors are ridiculous. Where do they find these people. I even read that one has signed a book deal, profiting from Martin's death, smh.
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This is the same juror, and the publisher rescinded the offer almost immediately after this interview aired.
 
Maninthemirror said:
So if I who look like an Arab go in with a full beard in Sanford to a local park and a white guy feels I am a threat to him because of the way I look, dressed and all and he has a gun and shoots me on the basis that he thought I was an imminent threat to him and his children, I die and he gets acquitted?
Click to expand...


Yes
 
It doesn't seem hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman caused the death of an innocent, underage civilian after initiating a confrontation whilst carrying a gun.

Were I on the jury, I wouldn't have called for murder, but I most certainly would have gone for manslaughter and not settled on anything less than involuntary manslaughter.
 
Maninthemirror said:
So if I who look like an Arab go in with a full beard in Sanford to a local park and a white guy feels I am a threat to him because of the way I look, dressed and all and he has a gun and shoots me on the basis that he thought I was an imminent threat to him and his children, I die and he gets acquitted?
Click to expand...

No sweetie, I think you need to look up how the law itself is written and read about it.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
I find myself more upset at this juror than Zimmernan
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She should just shut up at this point...the way she puts phrases together isn't very coherent and makes her out to be a complete moron.

I think in cases like this people who disagree with the verdict won't like to hear what a juror has to say on this matter but she's really digging herself a hole.
 
kirblar said:
He wasn't. Not sure why our reaction would be shocking to you.
Click to expand...

Well, you're gonna get yourself DEFINITELY killed instead of slim chance killed for starters. Heard the expression "don't bring a knife to gun fight"? Definitely don't bring your hands.
 
Holy Crap said:
I heard that shit yesterday and had to change the channel. Chicks actually believed every word that fucking dude said. I still can't fathom how that 6 mostly white females was supposed to be a jury of their peers and the State cosigned that shit. It was doomed from the jump.
Click to expand...

This woman actually said that she believed there were fabrications and exaggerations in the Zimmerman's story.
 
DonasaurusRex said:
The adult in the situation really fucking goofed and it cost someone their life and nothing happened to him....to me the adult is responsible for the generation coming up why would an adult follow and not immediately ask Trayvon from the car he was following him in " excuse me im neighborhood watch, there have been x amt of vandalism going on here , ive been keeping my eye out for them ive never seen you before do you live here" . And its over, even if trayvon is disrespectful and tells him to eat shit, you report that to the police and let them investigate. Its not like anything he was worried about Martin was doing, even if it was theft/ vandalism or whatever was worth more than his life. So yes after you feel something is strange and call the police you sit down since you're scared to approach a child straight up and say hey this is the situation. If you have a gun and are following a teen you are not built to confront people any other adult knows that teenagers are still children upstairs , many grow a lot but they are still growing up mentally and emotionally in the mind, and they are under the protection of the adults they live around. He fucked up.

I dont even know half the teens in my neighborhood but they're kids , they are under my protection , they could come to me for help , and i can approach and talk to them in a position of authority and as an adult geezus. This guy called the cops and followed him in his car...really? Martins texts alone make Zimmerman seems suspect , for a kid to notice the same guy following him is pretty creepy. He lacks the ability to see beyond his immediate frame of time , Zimmerman seems ....delayed mentally. You got the guy cased his close description, police on the way, theres 3 streets in your little community...too much. I dont think he is a demon murderer but he is an apathetic moron with a gun and for the life he took he should have to make amends.
Click to expand...
Zimmerman was a wannabe cop that kept (correctly) being denied the opportunity to be one based on his history.
 
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