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[Tacitus_]

Theory? It seems like common sense. What would you do if a guy came up to you and got in your face with a gun, and you knew you could overpower him and disable him to possibly save your own life?

But did he approach with a gun out?

 

[DarkKyo]

I get this image of the jury going "we're so not racist, we didn't even discuss race".

-"But, it might actually be important to this case?"
"Well, we don't see race the way normal people do"

 

[MThanded]

But did he approach with a gun out?

The truth of the matter is we don't know. However, I think the prosecution should have really hammered in how getting the gun out of the holster while being mounted and pinned at the torso seems extremely hard and very unlikely.

 

[Omegasquash]

But did he approach with a gun out?

I'm not sure how relevant having a gun holstered or not is. I get nervous whenever people that aren't clear bank security or proper law enforcement officers are armed. Why are they armed?

If it was dark and rainy and Martin could identify that there was a holster on a hip, it's really easy to see how he could have gone into a fight/flight. Especially in a neighborhood that had a recent series of crimes take place.

 

[DragonSworne]

The truth of the matter is we don't know. However, I think the prosecution should have really hammered in how getting the gun out of the holster while being mounted and pinned at the torso seems extremely hard and very unlikely.

Not if he trained in MMA. That's super easy to do.

 

[GungHo]

I'm unsure of the "good lesson" learned by all this beyond "feel free to frighten people and grease them if it turns out that you aren't as big a bad ass as you hoped".

COOPER: Why do you think George Zimmerman found Trayvon Martin suspicious then?

JUROR: Because he was cutting through the back, it was raining. He said he was looking in houses as he was walking down the road. Kind of just not having a purpose to where he was going. He was stopping and starting. But I mean, that’s George’s rendition of it, but I think the situation where Trayvon got into him being late at night, dark at night, raining, and anybody would think anybody walking down the road stopping and turning and looking, if that’s exactly what happened, is suspicious. And George said that he didn’t recognize who he was.

I've said this elsewhere, but I can't get over the fact that they're on a first name basis.

Official Neighborhood Watch guidelines forbid carrying firearms.

He wasn't affiliated with NNWP.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Hasn't this case been discussed ad nauseam in the relevant thread? Why bring it here and restart the whole cycle?

Lets talk more B37.

 

[CornBurrito]

I find this person to be quite revolting.

Even worse is that she has worked for a chiropractor for 16 years. I guess being easily fooled by charlatans just comes naturally to her.

 

[Keri]

I've said this elsewhere, but I can't get over the fact that they're on a first name basis.

She calls Trayvon Martin just Trayvon, as well. Personally, I think it's a little weird to use first names, but she's using first names for everyone.

 

[BigDaddyFatSack]

This is a clear cut self-defense case. People need to stop letting their emotions get in the way imho.

 

[Blue Submarine No. 6]

I'm glad I live in Canada. The justice system in the USA makes me sick.

.

 

[MThanded]

I'm not sure how relevant having a gun holstered or not is. I get nervous whenever people that aren't clear bank security or proper law enforcement officers are armed. Why are they armed?

If it was dark and rainy and Martin could identify that there was a holster on a hip, it's really easy to see how he could have gone into a fight/flight. Especially in a neighborhood that had a recent series of crimes take place.

It wasnt on the hip it was internal holster

He says in the walkthrough it was holstered in the back. The question I have is how would TM know the gun is there it was concealed. He claims that trayvon grabbed for it even thought he was pinned on the ground. How would he himself grab the gun while being pinned down.

Edit: This is off-topic and can be moved to the other case thread but I just wanted to clear up the holster situation because it was relevant to this post.

 

[Future PhaZe]

The truth of the matter is we don't know. However, I think the prosecution should have really hammered in how getting the gun out of the holster while being mounted and pinned at the torso seems extremely hard and very unlikely.

He told them to try it during their deliberations and they'd see that it wasn't possible.

Look, the prosecution could have hammered home the more salient points of the case a lot better, but the evidence was there. Whether or not they wanted to view it in the light most favorable of the state seems unlikely given the verdict, given that this was clearly a jury that went by the letter of the law and only that. Otherwise I believe the circumstantial evidence was more than strong enough given manslaughter was on the table.

It's important to note that no evidence supported Zimmermans version of the events other than the part about Trayvon being on top of him. Almost everything else revealed was contradictory to prior statements made by himself or seem unlikely given his history and the fact that he initiated it with his profiling.

 

[.GqueB.]

But did he approach with a gun out?

Every new thread is a chance to reiterate our points and argue with new people.

With that said: I'm not even sure Zimmerman actually shot Martin.

 

[MisterNegative]

This is stupid.

So if I approach you armed(bonus points for ignoring law enforcement ordering against it), verbally or physically instigate an altercation, you're telling me im right in shooting you if I happen to start losing the fight?

You don't really believe this you?

Zimmerman was advised by police to stop not ordered but i agree with you. What scares me about this case is the fact that soo many people are okay with ZIM's actions that night and don't see TM as the victim.

ZIM poorly (and racially IMO) profiled him as a criminal when he had NO EVIDENCE OR REASON
ZIM followed him
ZIM ignored police advice
ZIM had the fucking weapon
ZIM got out of the car and chased him.

Why do people think that all of these things are okay to do without expecting some kind of response ?

and yet somehow people actually believe ZIM didn't start the confrontation. As if ignoring the police wasn't an obvious enough sign ZIM had intentions to confront TM but wait there is more. The transcript to the police "Those fucking punks, they always get away" How does this NOT suggest ZIM had intentions of a confrontation based of a racial profile ? Oh people really want to believe when he said "Those" and "they" he was referring to those darn kids who always wear hoodies ? Like really ?

I can still see people focusing more on what TM should/shouldn't have done that night. Fuck that noise, ZIM shouldn't follow and chase people while armed without a reason based of shitty profiling or because he hasn't seen a person before. Non of this would of happened otherwise.

I just dunno anymore.

This is a clear cut self-defense case.

If this is clear cut self defence then the law needs to be revised. I shouldn't be able to follow, chase and possibly provoke someone to the point a conflict arises and then shoot that person because I am losing the fight that my previous actions have instigated and then see no consequences.

 

[iamshadowlark]

This is a clear cut self-defense trial. People need to stop letting their emotions get in the way imho.

The last thing the case is, is clear cut.

 

[remist]

I'm not sure how relevant having a gun holstered or not is. I get nervous whenever people that aren't clear bank security or proper law enforcement officers are armed. Why are they armed?

If it was dark and rainy and Martin could identify that there was a holster on a hip, it's really easy to see how he could have gone into a fight/flight. Especially in a neighborhood that had a recent series of crimes take place.

It was an inside the waistband holster. I highly doubt anyone could have spotted it in a dark and rainy environment.

 

[wildfire]

I've said this elsewhere, but I can't get over the fact that they're on a first name basis.

I'm guessing you're not American. We are very informal.

 

[ironcreed]

 

[inm8num2]

My only reaction to Juror B37.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1-xGuEkdLw

 

[BigDaddyFatSack]

The last thing the case is, is clear cut.

I've been following the case closely since the beginning and it is very clear that Zimmerman is not guilty. I live in Sanford, FL.

Most of you have been lured in by our national news stations when they spinned this trial heavily in a way to elicit angry response from the public. I don't blame them. That's how they make money.

 

[kirblar]

I'm guessing you're not American. We are very informal.

It's still very weird, actually, even if you are American.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

So, basically, anyone being cautious at night is suspicious. Hell, I look over my shoulder even during the day.

Also he was on the phone. I know when I'm talking on the phone I make odd paces or stop doing what I'm doing (maybe walking) to really dig into the conversation. Like when people twirl the phone cord on their fingers on a corded house phone in a relaxed position.

 

[MisterNegative]

I've been following the case closely since the beginning and it is very clear that Zimmerman is not guilty. I live in Sanford, FL.
.

Please explain this. How is it clear ?

 

[Zoe]

It's still very weird, actually, even if you are American.

I personally can't bring myself to use first names for people I don't know, but there were lots of people using them in the previous threads.

 

[Eidan]

Didn't Rachel Jeantel say that she heard Martin yelling for Zimmerman to get off of him? With that in mind, why is it that people are so certain that Martin began the physical altercation?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Zimmerman was advised by police to stop not ordered but i agree with you. What scares me about this case is the fact that soo many people are okay with ZIM's actions that night and don't see TM as the victim.

ZIM poorly (and racially IMO) profiled him as a criminal when he had NO EVIDENCE OR REASON
ZIM followed him
ZIM ignored police advice
ZIM had the fucking weapon
ZIM got out of the car and chased him.

Why do people think that all of these things are okay to do without expecting some kind of response ?

and yet somehow people actually believe ZIM didn't start the confrontation. As if ignoring the police wasn't an obvious enough sign ZIM had intentions to confront TM but wait there is more. The transcript to the police "Those fucking punks, they always get away" How does this NOT suggest ZIM had intentions of a confrontation based of a racial profile ? Oh people really want to believe when he said "Those" and "they" he was referring to those darn kids who always wear hoodies ? Like really ?

I can still see people focusing more on what TM should/shouldn't have done that night. Fuck that noise, ZIM shouldn't follow and chase people while armed without a reason based of shitty profiling or because he hasn't seen a person before. Non of this would of happened otherwise.

I just dunno anymore.

Thus the jurors comments that he went Above and Beyond. Dude was trying to be a hero and stop a rash of crimes that were committed by young black men. But none of what you posted matters in this trial. The only thing that matters is that GZ claimed that Martin attacked him, and there is not nearly enough evidence to support the opposite.

 

[Omegasquash]

It wasnt on the hip it was internal holster

He says in the walkthrough it was holstered in the back. The question I have is how would TM know the gun is there it was concealed. He claims that trayvon grabbed for it even thought he was pinned on the ground. How would he himself grab the gun while being pinned down.

Edit: This is off-topic and can be moved to the other case thread but I just wanted to clear up the holster situation because it was relevant to this post.

Much appreciated, and thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[User Name Here]

Because it sounds like opting for suicide to keep yourself from dying.

Nevermind the assumption that you are indeed being stalked, nevermind the assumption that if you were the stalker means bodily harm. Let's assume you're being followed by jack the ripper dressed as jason vorhees. At what point does attacking someone with a weapon become a good idea? are you cornered or what?

Hell, even the responses given betray the problem with the scenario. Luchashaq suggests attacking them before they can draw, which calls into question just how threatening they're being or how likely they are to shoot a fleeing target if they haven't even drawn a weapon. Attacking that person seems like a really good way to get them to draw though.

Yeah, I'd call it preemptive defense.

 

[MThanded]

Didn't Rachel Jeantel say that she heard Martin yelling for Zimmerman to get off of him? With that in mind, why is it that people are so certain that Martin began the physical altercation?

Defense showed an animation in closing arguments claiming that TM cold clocked him right at the T intersection. I think that the defense wanted that to be what everyone believed. Even thought there was no evidence of this.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I get this image of the jury going "we're so not racist, we didn't even discuss race".

-"But, it might actually be important to this case?"
"Well, we don't see race the way normal people do"

The jury instructions didn't say anything about race, so why would the jury discuss it?

I agree, morally and ethically, what George Zimmerman did was wrong in racial profiling Trayvon and following him purely based on his race. But that issue wasn't in front of the jury. They were instructed on the murder charge and lesser includeds, along with the self defense claim.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Wow

Blood boiling stuff
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...mmerman-juror-b37s-first-interview/?mobile=wp

 

[iamshadowlark]

I've been following the case closely since the beginning and it is very clear that Zimmerman is not guilty. I live in Sanford, FL.

Most of you have been lured in by our national news stations when they spinned this trial heavily in a way to elicit angry response from the public. I don't blame them. That's how they make money.

This post is has such a retarded ass tone but I'll bite.

I don't give a fuck if you lived on the same street as Zimmerman, if you weren't there you don't know anything more than the rest of us. It's pretty clear that there's not enough evidence to convict GZ of murder. That still tells us nothing of the actual incident and there's just as little evidence to say that GZ didn't murder Martin.

 

[{PleaseUnderstand}]

“I think both of them were responsible for the situation they got themselves into,” she added. “I think they each could have made the decision to walk away.”



Wut? I don't...wow. I guess I won't ever go for Skittles in a light rain.

Yep cause that's all that happened. A going adult getting skittles in the rain and got shot. You are just as bad as the jurors.

 

[Eidan]

Wow

Blood boiling stuff
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...mmerman-juror-b37s-first-interview/?mobile=wp

Fuck humans.

 

[MThanded]

I've been following the case closely since the beginning and it is very clear that Zimmerman is not guilty. I live in Sanford, FL.

Most of you have been lured in by our national news stations when they spinned this trial heavily in a way to elicit angry response from the public. I don't blame them. That's how they make money.

I stayed away from major news stations for almost all of the trial. I actually watched the stream on WFTV your local news station daily. Does that give me enough clout to lengthen the legs of my horse too?

 

[Eidan]

Yep cause that's all that happened. A going adult getting skittles in the rain and got shot. You are just as bad as the jurors.

A going adult? What are you talking about?

 

[{PleaseUnderstand}]

Fuck humans.

That article is drivel. They both made mistakes, which they did is saying tray on was responsible for his murder? Fuck humans? I hope you get this upset with every murder that occurs.

 

[MisterNegative]

Thus the jurors comments that he went Above and Beyond. Dude was trying to be a hero and stop a rash of crimes that were committed by young black men. But none of what you posted matters in this trial. The only thing that matters is that GZ claimed that Martin attacked him, and there is not nearly enough evidence to support the opposite.

The outcome of the trial doesn't affect me as much as the people coming up with weak BS reasons to defend ZIM and act like TM wasn't a victim. He was a victim of poor and racial profiling and that led to his death.

 

[{PleaseUnderstand}]

A going adult? What are you talking about?

Auto correct. Young adult. Which is what he was. Not a 12 yr old kid as portrayed by the media.

 

[Eidan]

That article is drivel. They both made mistakes, which they did is saying tray on was responsible for his murder? Fuck humans? I hope you get this upset with every murder that occurs.

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're trying to say. Your typing is the equivalent of a person speaking with food in their mouth.

 

[BigDaddyFatSack]

This post is has such a retarded ass tone but I'll bite.

I don't give a fuck if you lived on the same street as Zimmerman, if you weren't there you don't know anything more than the rest of us. It's pretty clear that there's not enough evidence to convict GZ of murder. That still tells us nothing of the actual incident and there's just as little evidence to say that GZ didn't murder Martin.

^ Angry retard produced by national news corp. alert.

 

[{PleaseUnderstand}]

I'm really having trouble understanding what you're trying to say. Your typing is the equivalent of a person speaking with food in their mouth.

Use or powers of deduction. Auto correct on the cell. They did both make mistakes. That's not saying he is responsible for his own murder. That article is shit.

 

[Tacitus_]

Every new thread is a chance to reiterate our points and argue with new people.

With that said: I'm not even sure Zimmerman actually shot Martin.

I'm sorry if this has been discussed a lot before, I didn't have much interest in the case before the verdict. I was just trying to refute the "waving gun in his face" line. The whole thing seems so muddled that stating such things so matter-of-factly seemed wrong.

 

[Eidan]

Auto correct. Young adult. Which is what he was. Not a 12 yr old kid as portrayed by the media.

He was a minor. A kid. Just days removed from 16. What point are you trying to make by calling him a "young adult"?

 

[maximum360]

Even worse is that she has worked for a chiropractor for 16 years. I guess being easily fooled by charlatans just comes naturally to her.

Ouch.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Use or powers of deduction. Auto correct on the cell. They did both make mistakes. That's not saying he is responsible for his own murder. That article is shit.

So you are saying TM was responsible for getting shot ?

 

[Kinyou]

- Her husband is an attorney and has a CCW.

Anyone else wonder how often she pulled the "My husband is an attorney and he would say...." during the jury meetings?

 

[casmith07]

Absolutely abhorrent.

Self defense does not give you the right to kill another human being, even if the other guy initiated your ass-kicking.

Force must be met with equal or lesser reasonable force. Period.

 

[ironcreed]

Wow

Blood boiling stuff
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...mmerman-juror-b37s-first-interview/?mobile=wp

Yes, she feels sorry for the guy who profiled and stalked Travon with a gun under false assumption, thereby, bringing suspicion upon himself. How about the innocent kid being followed home for no reason who got murdered because maybe he felt like he needed to defend himself from the stranger that was pursuing him?

I'm sorry, Travon is the only one I can logically feel sorry for in this situation. Zimmerman was being a profiling, wannabe cop douche, and ended up killing a kid that he had no business casing out to begin with. This shit truly boggles the mind.