Whipped Spartan
Member
even if they launch with 10 guys. If they can get out one new character a month or something that would be cool too. They mentioned season pass in comments of full game purchase.
Killer Instinct coming to Xbox One
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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i HeaR MusiC
Member
That's kind of unrealistic to expect 10-12 characters when we have 3 so far with 4 months left before launch.
And I can't really see this game bombing being the ONLY next gen fighter.
Not only that. It's going to be the flagship for the DD games of the next gen, MS is going to push this beyond believe
Very cool, I really like that they put counter breakers in, the game definitely needed it.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
Hmm, if it is 8 characters then that leaves...One more character that we don't know? Jago, Saberwolf, and Glacius we've seen, Thunder has been teased, and Fulgore, Cinder and Spinal have been confirmed by a dev (right?). 10 characters would be nice for launch, that way we could get Combo, Orchid, and a new character.
.la1n
Member
I would think having Orchid ready would be something they are planning. Having an all male cast at the launch of a fighter just doesn't seem right.
Poker Face
Member
I don't think it's unrealistic to ask for 10 characters. I just feel like a lot of people would be underwhelmed if some of the cast is not there.
I'm only talking hypothetically about the game's success.
Excluding boss characters, there are only 10 in the first game, and an additional 3 in KI2, making 13 total. I don't think it's asking too much to see that before Evo, but I'd definitely like to see a few new characters as well.
While I agree that the game doesn't need a large cast to be good, in order to get decent turnouts at tournaments, it needs a bit of mainstream love. I don't know if it will get that with a very small launch roster. A low launch price could sway some people, but would those people support the game at tournaments?
KI will already have a tough time just being an X1 exclusive, especially if no other next-gen fighters are available before Evo 2014 (which seems likely). I really would just like to see the game do well in the tournament scene. Maybe not Capcom levels of success, but at least Injustice/MK levels.
I don't think anyone has really sat down to optimize combo hits yet. OMG It's Andre hit 112 (might have been 116) with Jago at Evo, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't optimized.
Based on my play time at E3 and Evo, I don't see significant differences in the general structure of how each character executes combos. Sabre would follow the same process as Jago. The only question would be how much KV do their manuals/Around the World/Rabid Bites add.
Without knowing the KV on Manuals and the like, I know that Heavy Auto-Doubles result in less KV output than Medium or Light Auto-Doubles. Using the basic formula of Opener, Auto-Double, Linker, Auto-Double, etc., I'm estimating 26-30 hits with Sabre, with full meter (two Shadow Linkers) and a wall bounce Ender. Use an Instinct Cancel after the wall bounce, then you can get another 16-20 hits, plus *maybe* another Shadow Linker if you can build meter fast enough. At the low end that's 42 hits, at the high end it's 55... all without an Ultra.
Also, Sabre does have the hardest time against Glacius. There's no "technically" about it. I'd go as far as to say it's a 10-0 match-up, although I know some people would disagree with me on that. I don't think his moves look the same though. Perhaps you're just looking at Ragged Edge, which has three variations that have nearly identical animations, or his Auto-Doubles? When I look at his move list, it's pretty varied. Ragged Edge, Eclipse, Hamstring, and Jumping Slash all look very different. I'd say only Eclipse and Running Uppercut look similar, but even they're noticeably different animations.
On paper that sounds good, but I don't think it works in practice. As of the Evo build, even if you can't read the Auto-Doubles, you can just break the Linkers with a 50% chance of success. And his damage in combos comes from the rabid bites, which you're not going to land unless someone misses a breaker.
Also, with the recovery on his cross-up dash, no frame advantage, minimal invincibility, extreme risk due to unsafe attacks, and how much the Shadow Counter hurts him, Sabrewulf doesn't have much in the way of rush down. I'd say Jago is a far better rush down character at this point.
Having played against several solid Glacius players at Evo (including one of the devs), then watching Rich and that same dev go at it in the Sabre/Glacius match, Sabre has more to worry about than just hail.
Jago can punish F+MK (that long poke), but Sabrewulf can't unless he's already close. Unfortunately, you can't get in with Sabre's dash because it has too much recovery. I got hit during recovery every single time I tried. You have to hope the Glacius player makes a mistake, or move in very slowly.
Once you're in, if Glacius has meter, you can't use Ragged Edge. Everything else he has is unsafe, so your only real option is to go with his overhead/low mix-up (Jumping Slash or Hamstring). If Glacius blocks correctly, you're punished and will probably end up back at full screen. If he blocks wrong, he still has the option to use a Breaker to escape damage.
It's definitely an uphill battle for Sabre, but I've been told changes are coming from him so we'll see how he ends up in the next build. I might be at PAX, so I'm looking forward to playing again and trying out Thunder.
.la1n
Member
Great write up Dogg, glad we have more than one guy here on GAF able to give us the technical ins and outs from hands on experience. Unfortunate that Sabre has a hard time getting in on Glacius but hopefully something the devs are well aware of and working on. Having a low character count is one thing but having a low unbalanced character count is another.
too much eslim
Member
Hey DrDogg, you think if they gave Sabre's dash invincibility would it make him OP? I think that is the only thing the can do right now to make him a viable player against Glacius. It is the only way I can see Sabre being able to avoid Glacius's pokes.
Most of the devs thought Sabre/Glacius was an even match-up. When I brought up the issues, they were all receptive, but kind of took the, "have you tried this yet?" approach. I think I got my point across to everyone, but I know KLobb agreed with me on many points and stated that changes were coming.
I also sent Ken a detailed list of concerns/buffs. I don't expect all of them to be addressed, but I think they'll at least take the list seriously.
I think that would make him OP. I recommended that they lower the recovery on his dash considerably in open space, and slightly when it crosses up.
All he really needs against Glacius is the ability to punish F+MP. Jago does it with his Shadow Wind Kick, Sabre could do it if they gave him more range on his Shadow Jumping Slash. It would basically be the same thing (except Jago's is advantage on block and Sabre's isn't, but at least it's safe).
I also feel that if you could cancel his Run, that could help out as well. He shouldn't have an easy way to get in (Glacius needs to have zoning tools that actually work -- which he does), but it shouldn't be as hard as it currently is. If they can find a happy balance, that would be great.
too much eslim
Member
Yeah figured that. However I think Glacius's cluster would stop that moves in an instant. He really should be given's Blanka's move I know it is a cop out, but it allows him to get in. His shadow jumping slash is too slow and as you said the range is too short for him to do anything. Or allow when Sabre does his run he is able to leg drop across the screen.
Good to see some additional hands-on insight! So his dash has that bad a recovery, eh? That's a bit sad to hear. I would hope the slide would be the perfect anti-Spear Poke move, but I guess that doesn't work out so well currently, either.
This makes me think, is Wulf's "Charge to Unblockable" attack save / plus on block? I could see the idea of his rabid swipes + being able to cancel into that being a cornerstone of his mindgames / baiting counter-breakers / semi-save mixup times.
Perhaps a buff to him that could keep along with the systems of the game, is to give him an ender that builds more "Instinct" mode, as well? Since his instinct gives him Speed + More damage, being able to access it more often could make him an overall stronger character.
He DID used to have bat projectiles too, right? Maybe allowing him to reflect enemies projectiles, and turn them into an homage to his old bats, would help him with range, but also allow him to stay pure rushdown?
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Overall, your comments with the devs give the impression that they want to try to aim for the "everyone is viable!" balance method, rather than the Capcom-style "some characters are made to have uphill battles!" style.
I do hope this is the direction they're going in; I always find it helps small-roster games, because it makes every character actually seem worthwhile, which should also increase the chance that players will gravitate to the full cast, rather than just the "obvious high tiers".
sixteen-bit
Member
Bloody Roar, Blazblue, Soul Calibur, Tekken... Eveyone's doing it!
All the more reason to not include a vampire. Do something different that no one else is doing or has done.
I want a fat vampire.
AngelsDontBurn
Banned
Vampire Bill.
The only Vampire I'd accept in KI, lol:
What can I say, I really liked Eternal Champions back in the day! Though in reality, a half living, half decaying creature like him would be quite interesting to see in new KI art style.
Wouldn't turn down Shadow either, while we're at it...
What can I say, I really liked Eternal Champions back in the day! Though in reality, a half living, half decaying creature like him would be quite interesting to see in new KI art style.
Wouldn't turn down Shadow either, while we're at it...
shinobi602
Member
So when are we seeing the next character again?
Poker Face
Member
Well we thought it would be SDCC, but no dice. Then we were told Gamescom, but then Ken Lobb said it would be before that.
So sometime before Gamescom.
Even Mortal Kobat has a female vampire.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
A few matches from the Madcatz Unveiled event. Probably some of the highest level matches around besides devs vs devs. I'm not even saying this to brag, only because I'm probably the one guy with the most experience playing besides the devs themselves.
KILLER INSTINCT: Max Vs Devs Part 1(High Level Matches from Madcatz Unveiled)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZRdab0t7A
KILLER INSTINCT: Max Vs Devs Part 1(High Level Matches from Madcatz Unveiled)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZRdab0t7A
Youll probably beat everybody's ass when the game come's out, good job
Only thing that bothers me is that there are too many combo breakers.
who is she?
AngelsDontBurn
Banned
Nitara from Deadly Alliance.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
http://www.videogamer.com/xboxone/k...ing_strategy_to_be_announced_at_gamescom.html
Killer Instinct pricing strategy to be announced at gamescom
Killer Instinct pricing strategy to be announced at gamescom
Just watched the first match. Incredible comeback! Thought Rich had that one in the bag for sure.
sixteen-bit
Member
Jiangshi are vampires too, right? Add Darkstalkers to that list.
The Shadow Jumping Slash is projectile invincible, so it would go right through the Hail Cluster. The same thing could be accomplished if they extended the range on his Hamstring slide from Run.
Playing against Glacius, the Hail wasn't a concern. It was primarily his F+MP and his jumping Kick attacks (the ones that look just like F+MP). Nothing else really kept me out.
They've been going back and forth with the dash recovery. From what I was told, at first the recovery was so small he just owned everyone. They added recovery to what we have now, and thought it was good, but they've finding that isn't the case.
I think the issue is that the number of people playing is relatively small, and only a few guys on the dev team (Rich and Buktooth) have high-level fighting game experience (as far as I'm aware). I was told repeatedly that Sabre is a beast at close range because of the cross-up dash. However, when I brought up the fact that if the opponent simply mashes a Light attack, they beat everything Sabre can do after a cross-up, no one really had any answers.
My assumption is that Rich was doing well with Sabre because they respected the dash too much (possibly because they were used to the original recovery frames). I was told with perfect timing you can work around the recovery, but you have to dash so early to get that timing that the opponent has plenty of time to see which side you're on and block accordingly.
The slide is great, but it's unsafe. In addition, when it hits at max range (something I did a lot against Glacius), it doesn't work as an Opener. I was told that the devs were looking into extending the range and making sure that it combos from all ranges. Also, when I was fighting in a Sabre mirror match, as soon as I saw him Run, I would just jump or use a Shadow attack. The Shadow beats all of his Run options, and jumping owns everything except the Running Uppercut, which leads to minor damage and is unsafe on block.
I think the biggest concern with Sabre is the Shadow Counter. Since his Ragged Edge is two hits (and his only safe special), you can't use it on block. Any decent opponent will block the first hit, then Shadow Counter the second. The devs seemed to be aware of this, but I'm not sure how they'd fix the problem aside from making the Ragged Edge one hit, which hurts Sabre's already poor meter-building ability.
It's safe on block, but I don't think it's positive. It's a hard move to land though. KI is so fast-paced that people hardly stop attacking. When you see Sabre charge, you just jump and you're usually fine. If you could cancel the charge (without attacking), then you'd have something to work with.
As for the Rabid Bites... they really only work when an opponent has been locked out. You can certainly use them as Breaker bait, but then it's just as much a guessing game for you as it is for the opponent. You have no advantage in this situation. If you try a Counter Breaker at the wrong time, the opponent gets to start a combo and you lose all that potential damage.
His Instinct mode is the weakest of the three. He gets a damage buff, slight speed buff and more chip damage, but his shortcomings are still very present. I still have to open you up to get damage. I can't do that without being unsafe and hoping you guess wrong.
I can't take advantage of the chip damage because only his LP Ragged Edge is safe on block and I have nothing that's advantage on block. So after a three hit block string into LP Ragged Edge, I can do nothing. It's your turn to attack unless I want to risk an unsafe Shadow Eclipse, which has invincibility on start-up, but will see me punished if blocked (and if it hits I get minimal damage). And if the opponent has meter I can't even use the LP Ragged Edge, so all I can do is a three hit block string if I want to stay safe.
Compare this to Jago's Instinct, which gives him roughly 25% health regain, and infinite rush down with his +4 frame advantage buff. Or Glacius who gets 5 hits of armor... yeah, Sabre doesn't really compare. I pretty much only used his Instinct as an FADC to make the Shadow Eclipse safe if the opponent blocked it.
Agreed. The devs were definitely open to my comments. They listened and it seemed like they understood. We'll just have to see what changes are made in future builds.
bumpkin
Member
Ugh... Love the videos, they hurt so good. I want this freaking game NOW!
I just hope that the CE with the TE stick will be available Day 1 here in Italy :/
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Gonna copy this info over from the DH forums asking about breakers/enders and high level vs low level players.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Looking better and better... You're going to have such an advantage on launch day since you've gotten to play it a bunch of times at this point.
At the moment, I think there's too much guessing in KI. I'd actually compare it a lot to DOA, which is looked down upon by the competitive community.
I like all of the offensive and defensive options, but I think they need to cut it back just a bit. My suggestion to the devs was to simply not allow Linkers to be broken. I think that change alone would provide the proper balance between guessing/mind games and the many other skills that go into fighting games.
Casual vs. high-level, KI benefits the high-level... but average vs. high-level is probably equal. Once you have a grasp on the game system, there isn't much that separates the two. Maybe execution on Manuals, but Jago's Around the World isn't really all that hard. Sabre's Manuals are harder, but he suffers in many other areas.
Obviously I need to sit down and play the game more and get into Training Mode, but that's my take at present.
Right now I feel Jago is more rush down than Sabre.
JerryThePredator
Banned
I'm ALL IN for the most expensive/complete version of the game.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Sabrewulf's stage music is so gooooood.
So I had a chance to play this game recently and some impressions, I was the Saberwolf and the guy I played was Jago. Only 2 characters were available:
- First of graphics are pretty bad definitely looks like a current gen game and it looked like there was a lot of aliasing. It looks ok for a Current gen game i guess but I was not impressed. The dude I was playing is said "Man this game looks likes shit" which i think was a bit too harsh
- The last time I played KI was a very long time ago so I am not sure if it's like the older versions but game played pretty decently. I was mostly button mashing but game felt pretty fast not as crazy as MvC games though.
- The Xbox one controller REALLY sucks for this game or fighting games in general. The Dpad is pretty terrible and I tried using the analog stick and it just felt weird. I am guess most serious players will need a arcade stick because I can't see playing with just the controller for too long.
- The guy I was playing was Jago and he seemed to have this move where you can put on some aura which depletes instead of your health. I think the Saberwolf guy had something similar as well.
Overall the game seems ok but I wasn't too impressed. Im not a hardcore fighting game fan although I do like them so keep that in mind.
- First of graphics are pretty bad definitely looks like a current gen game and it looked like there was a lot of aliasing. It looks ok for a Current gen game i guess but I was not impressed. The dude I was playing is said "Man this game looks likes shit" which i think was a bit too harsh
- The last time I played KI was a very long time ago so I am not sure if it's like the older versions but game played pretty decently. I was mostly button mashing but game felt pretty fast not as crazy as MvC games though.
- The Xbox one controller REALLY sucks for this game or fighting games in general. The Dpad is pretty terrible and I tried using the analog stick and it just felt weird. I am guess most serious players will need a arcade stick because I can't see playing with just the controller for too long.
- The guy I was playing was Jago and he seemed to have this move where you can put on some aura which depletes instead of your health. I think the Saberwolf guy had something similar as well.
Overall the game seems ok but I wasn't too impressed. Im not a hardcore fighting game fan although I do like them so keep that in mind.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Man, I just don't get this. Watching the 60fps high def footage looks pretty damn awesome to me and it probably looks better without video compression. Though I wouldn't say it's the most amazing looking next gen game, I can't think of a current gen fighting game that looks nearly as good.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Is there more reports of the xbox one dpad being bad? It dont look like it should be bad
GuitarAtomik
Member
I've heard it was better than the original (or even the rotatable one) but I'm not sure how much better. Don't think I've heard anyone call it bad.
First off, if only two characters were playable, you were more than likely playing the very outdated E3 build. Secondly, if you didn't think the game looked good, I have to ask what kind of display you were playing on.
I noticed at Evo that the arcade cabinet screens had very high contrast, which didn't look as good as what I played at E3. However, the big screens the arcade cabinets fed into looked fine.
What do you think of other fighting games (graphically)? I'd probably go as far as to say this is the best looking fighting game to date.
It's better than both 360 dpads, but it's definitely not "good". I had a hard time navigating menus with the original 360 pad. It was better with the rotating one, but still not Dual Shock levels of precision. With the X1 pad, I could navigate menus just fine, but no way would I ever want to play a fighting game on it.
This is coming from someone who plays pad in Tekken and MK, and stick for all other fighters.
I don't mean to say the game looks horrid. It looks a current gen game. I dunno maybe my expectations were different (for next gen) and that is affecting my opinion but it just didn't impress me as a next gen game.
I am mostly used to the PS3 dpad so it felt worse than that to me for a fighting game.
I think you need to take a look at all the fighters currently available again if you really believe this looks current gen. It's night and day.
I dont want to troll as I do not have any interest in the game other than what it represents as far as next gen visuals but but its not hard to see where hes coming from.
Jago should have the skin and details (like the feathers or cloak) of the Dark Sorcerer,
Sabrewulf should have fur like The Witchers next gen wolf, and
Glacius should be a tech demo on next gen water physics.
sixteen-bit
Member
i HeaR MusiC
Member
The irony... lol
This game is running at 60fps with massive shit going on at once. If you aren't attempting to troll then ........ Idk lol
This game runs at 60fps and can't afford to drop anything on any stages. There are varying amounts of shit on screen with each stage, and a lot to take in regarding that.
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