This is how I feel about it. I'm sure Fish gets way more shit than I've ever gotten, but he has to have known the best course of action would've just been to keep his mouth shut.
FEZ 2 (possibly?) cancelled | Aka: Phil Fish acts like a 5 year old on Twitter
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
- Status
This is how I feel about it. I'm sure Fish gets way more shit than I've ever gotten, but he has to have known the best course of action would've just been to keep his mouth shut.
cj_iwakura
Member
Maybe his game just sucked.
He's right.
He's right.
When you appear on camera, you become an abstraction, an image. It becomes culturally acceptable for the people who live anonymously, who do not appear on camera, to offload the stress of their quotidian, off-camera life onto you, who, everyone rests assured, cannot feel a thing, since images cannot feel. And in the event that you are a human being who can feel things, it doesn't matter, because appearing on camera has made you so fulfilled as a human being financially and spiritually that insults no longer affect you; you've become a God. Or so they mistakenly assume. It's extremely tragic.
this is exactly what i'm talking about.. who made them 'indie gods'? i do see their names involved in any article talking about the state of indie gaming.. but people seem to like their games... the personal following that comes with it? I'm not sure I understand.. esp w/ guys i'm only familiar w/ 2 games for... its not exactly shiggy is it?
I dont know cuz i havent really followed them.. but do these 2 guys go around calling themselves "Indie Gods"?
Riposte
Member
Marcus Beer probably gets ton of hate. Funny enough, we had a thread where he made some dumb comments about Japanese games and he got ripped apart for it on GAF. I imagine his twitter painted a similar image.
Also it is really weird how this turned from "HAHA Fish knows how to piss off NERRRRRDDS!" to "STOP! STOP! You'll kill him!"
Forsaken82
Member
Hes a 5 year old for saying Im done, Goodbye?
Oh nevermind, theres more.
Oh nevermind, theres more.
Cat in the Hat
Member
They have nothing better to do I suppose.
Publicity stunts ｷﾀ━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ
━━━━━━ｯThere are other jobs than game development.
Secret Fawful
Member
Look, when you're as insecure as Fish, you have to scream with a big voice and get insulting and mean as a psychological defense. The louder and meaner you are, the harder, in the mind of such an individual, it is to be stepped on and bullied.
It doesn't make it right, but Fish shows all the signs of having this psychological issue.
It doesn't make it right, but Fish shows all the signs of having this psychological issue.
A certain amount of attention from internet fuckbags comes with being semi-famous.
The reason Phil Fish gets so much more abuse than most semi-famous people is because he's a fuckbag himself a lot of the time. People can say "Oh it's SO HARD to be that hated" but you know he wouldn't be that hated if he would stop being shitty so much.
The reason Phil Fish gets so much more abuse than most semi-famous people is because he's a fuckbag himself a lot of the time. People can say "Oh it's SO HARD to be that hated" but you know he wouldn't be that hated if he would stop being shitty so much.
I was speaking more towards famous people than someone who works at a regular and established development studio. The situation that Fish and Blow are in with regards to their "celebrity" and the resulting amount of vitriol is much closer to that than the average developer. I didn't mean to imply that they weren't well off (Blow probably more than Fish), but I doubt they're at a point where they can comfortably shrug off the verbal attacks of the masses the way that the truly rich and famous can. Especially when as an indie developer, you're very much out there on your own.
fez was in development for years and i never heard of the guy until he acted like an asshole at gdc. then he kept acting like an asshole. i don't hate the guy. i don't think he 'deserved' the sort of responses he got (i hadn't realized it was so negative and mean, but i haven't kept up with his twitter/internet life), but at what point do you stop and think about how you're acting?
He's right.
Ugh.
Him treating the internet like its some unholy enemy that hurts his feeling is sorta weird. Indies live and die based on buzz or discussion that happens on the internet, there won't be commercials or a marketing blitz for The Witness or Fez 2. Its possible to criticize a gateway of success, but saying that gateway is toxic while defending bullshit doesn't seem kosher.
I'm just tired of "Yeah, the internet sure sucks ass" comments while artists and creators rarely admit how important the internet was for their success. Jonathon Blow isn't a marketing ace, nor does he have a marketing budget given the nature of his games.
The internet isn't a confusing place, don't step in shit piles or create ones if you can't handle the attention. If someone continuously gets into shit piles, they shouldn't be dumbfounded on why they ended up in that shit pile.
Essentially, be ready to take shit or sling it, or smell the stench and decide to walk around it.
He's saying two things, both of which are pretty straight forward. 1) Developers (obviously Fish in this case) should use more tact and be more restrained when on Twitter, etc. And 2), it's hard to understand how difficult it is to have so much vitriol sent your way via the internet.
I don't see him as disregarding the criticism. He's pointing out the disparity of expectations of conduct on either side. I think it's a fair point.
That said, IMO, Fish is acting very foolish. Like it or not, the behavior of "the internet" is pretty predictable when it comes to this kind of stuff, and he should know that by now from past experience. It's akin to poking a hornets nest. I don't think that excuses some of the over the top stuff that does get thrown at him. But he should know when to just push the keyboard back a bit, rather than telling someone to compare their life to his and then kill themselves because his feelings got hurt. There's exactly one way that kind of stuff ends, and with with massive blowback. It's totally self-defeating.
Skull Leader
Banned
I reserve my right to call Mel Gibson a misogynistic, spiteful piece of shit despite the fact that he does suffer a mental condition. A duck's a bloody duck.
People would still hate you for quitting, they'd just hate you for other reasons on top of whatever others they had before. And the world would move on, and you'd still be an angry semi-frequent twitter personality who randomly shits out an insult about 'thing that annoyed me today while Game Devloping/headed to the Starbucks/Game Developing while at the Starbucks'.
Fish earned the view many people have of him because he's acted the way he has. If he didn't want people to mock him for being a 'hipster tosspot', the first step to fixing any problem is to RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM.
Yep, pretty much.
"choke on my dick!!!!!!"
"you guys are mean 2 me ｡･ﾟ･(ﾉД`)･ﾟ･｡ "
Look at that goddamned douchebag manchild hipster, being all dicky, the whiny bitch.
I never got to watch this entire video, do you have a link?
B-because Fez is the Citizen Kane of gaming.
He's right.
This is kind of funny coming from the guy who rushed to defend his game at every site possible, even if there were positive remarks.
Will he be just as successful in those jobs though? If yes, good for him.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I look at it as one of the most embarrassing. Best is not the word I would surmise.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
He's right.
i agree completely.
Secret Fawful
Member
Irrational, yes. Worthy of mobs of hate? Come on. Or have we not moved past the dark ages where we pull out the pitchforks and torches and march on the castle where the big bad monster lives.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Phil Fish needs professional help.
Skull Leader
Banned
Well, there have been the RAM threads for the last 48 hours, so yeah, def embarrassing bro
PartTimeWarrior
Banned
A dick indie dev gets his feelings hurt so bad he throws a tantrum and "cancels" his game.
Nothing of value was lost. I hope he puts his fedora and PC up for good
Nothing of value was lost. I hope he puts his fedora and PC up for good
Riposte
Member
Very short stick to begin with if you ask me.
Jonnyboy117
Member
Nicely done.
Twig, then.
Aggrotek
Member
Zing!
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
You know, I have a temper that gets the best of me, so I sympathetic towards Fish in a way. But these Indie designers really need to cut out on the attitude towards gamers and other targets that they don't like. In fact, I know that it would really improve their image and more people would support them. I just don't understand why developers realize that.
YianGaruga
Banned
He later apologized and learned from that.
Nobody is perfect.
And to everyone else: Yeah the INTERNET HIVEMIND stuff is stupid, but it's twitter and you only have so much space to express yourself.
CriterionDog
Member
This guy is so arrogant and annoying. Oh my god.
AHA-Lambda
Member
no, i'm ok with this right now.
Visualante2
Member
I think so. He could walk into a lot of animation studios at least, probably do his own graphic design thing. Whether they would want to deal with muzzling him is another thing.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I'm sure he'll wake up and regret all this. He really needs someone in his life that can reign him in and keep him stable. That much is painfully obvious.
He's only hurtin the people that care about his work, I'm sure the ones that made him take that decision don't give a shit about Fez II. I hope he realises that if this really is true.
Or at least go back to twitter and talking trash and make a new IP, or whatever. He can cancel his game anytime he wants, but I'm getting a "out of this business" vibe, which is really not cool. Fez is not my cup of tea, but even so I think it has some really well thought and sometimes just brilliant things, so I'm looking forward to his new ideas.
Y'know, this isn't really fair to those people who have supported Phil and genuinely like his games.
It's easy to just see the negative people on the internet and ignore the fact that there's a silent majority of people who genuinely like your stuff.
It's pretty childish to just retreat and then blame the rudeness of others for your own actions. Blow's comments are out of line too, since "you guys" is far too broad a statement of blame. It's like saying everyone who follows phil fish on twitter is a horrible demon that delights in the pain of others, when that's just not true. That's rude to the fans of your game.
Also, seriously I've said this like, 500,000 times in the past 3 months: Please learn how to appropriately use Twitter, everyone. It's a megaphone, not a private conversation. Don't say anything you wouldn't say to an audience while standing on stage.
It's easy to just see the negative people on the internet and ignore the fact that there's a silent majority of people who genuinely like your stuff.
It's pretty childish to just retreat and then blame the rudeness of others for your own actions. Blow's comments are out of line too, since "you guys" is far too broad a statement of blame. It's like saying everyone who follows phil fish on twitter is a horrible demon that delights in the pain of others, when that's just not true. That's rude to the fans of your game.
Also, seriously I've said this like, 500,000 times in the past 3 months: Please learn how to appropriately use Twitter, everyone. It's a megaphone, not a private conversation. Don't say anything you wouldn't say to an audience while standing on stage.
For the sake of his dignity, I truly hope this Fez II remains cancelled.
Seems to me he's fishing for his fans to reach out to him and I'm not sure he's gonna get the response he is looking for.
EDIT: those comments under his post...
You bring this up, but Phil said one of the things that resonated with me personally quite a lot.
Okay, I haven't finished any games, but I have spent a fair bit of time working on a few projects here and there and found myself feeling down because I wasn't finishing them and had very little to show for my time:
He can say some really crazy and offensive things at times, but that hit me. Hopefully he either continues with gamedev or has success in other jobs.
Not expecting that, especially on the internet, is completely naive. Face the mob, present ideas and thoughts that don't create mobs, or say what you want and ignore the mob.
- Status