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[Warm Machine]

Beer was a jackass in the way he said it, but there was a kernel of truth: Fish gives his opinion on everything and everything, and both he and his defenders act like this is his noble unique trait that is the only source of all criticism against him. But then he acts like it's insulting and unbearable when people ask him for said opinions on things, as if he has no idea where his reputation as an outspoken developer came from.

Yeah. He, John Blow, and others have been using their soapbox position as famous indie developers to try to sway developer and public favour in the indie scene towards Sony and have been incredibly obvious and transparent about it, championing self publishing and support on the platforms.

MS changes their rules and the news story that needs to be told is the reaction these people have to that change of policy. That is an honest news story. Because the two of them were caught out after the chest pounding they have been doing they didn't want to play along for a legitimate story. Brian Provinciano had the balls to say what was on his mind with what information he had. Why are these two so damn afraid and feel like they are above such journalism?

All either of them had to say was... "Good to see MS has changed their policy and look to be following the direction set by other platform holders but there are still a lot of unknowns with Xbox One's indie publishing. For now we see a clear road ahead with Sony."

Done. Not a hint of asshole in there.

 

[baphomet]

And nothing of value will be lost.

 

[britt0n]

I hope he is serious. Fez was a great game, but he is such a baby it nearly ruined it for me. Good riddance and hope he moves on to something that I have no need to look at.

 

[Socreges]

I'm more depressed now that socially inept people are hated by the world in general, and this is just proof. I kind of just want my life to end now. I get more and more depressed the more I read. I don't want to live on a world where people with social problems or introverts are hated.

Oh, and I'm also a moron because I don't know the definition of the word tact, I guess. Why do I try.

What do you have to do with Phil Fish? He's a narcissistic asshole. That's how his 'social ineptness' has manifested. You seem to be talking about something else.

 

[joe2187]

Makes good comments about shitty practices in the games media.
Gets a lot of abuse as a result.
Leaves the Games Industry
Is somehow the bad guy.

You forget the part where he's incapable of taking an ounce of criticism, talks shit about other devs like they're beneath him, rude to his fans, doesn't know how to control his own temper and acts like an immature twit.

 

[npa189]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, and don't get ass prints on our door. What a giant baby, how can a grown-ass man act this way? This is the most childish meltdown I've ever seen on the internet, if he thinks that is abuse, something he can totally ignore and he does not have to answer to this guy, wait until he has to get a normal job. Grow up.

 

[NZNova]

Well this is just embarrassing for all parties involved. Grown adults behaving this way. If Phil Fish does have a mental issue, I surely hope he gets some help because this entire situation is just silly at this point.

 

[bhlaab]

What a child

 

[lifa-cobex]

Sounds like this guy is just throwing a hissy fit and hoping to boost his ego up.

I really don't know who this bloke is other than what iv been reading with Beer.
Does this guy have staff under him? Wtf are they thinking about all this?

 

[Atomski]

In any case, I'm guessing that everyone, pro-Fish or anti-Fish, can agree that this is for the best, right? People defending him won't have to suffer him being "bullied", and people that can't stand him won't have to suffer him... period. There was no way anything good could come from further continued interaction between him and the Internet at large.

Id rather have enjoyed his future games and continued not caring what he said. I think those who taunted him have just as much a problem as he does. Why the hell do they care what he says anyways?! specially if they dont care about his games.

 

[Skull Leader]

If he was a completely nice guy, but still socially inept, he'd be just as disliked, it just wouldn't be as vocal. If you have bad social skills, you've been born cursed. Most people won't like you. Whereas people with good social skills are universally loved and successful at anything they do. That's just the way things are.

I don't have to like it.

If he was a nice guy but socially inept, this wouldn't have gone this far, because even a nice person who is socially inept can take time out of their hectic day to not tell people to choke on their dick. Or threaten to kill a business partner at a public venue. Or apparently be abusive to his ex girlfriend.

 

[Axass]

If he was a completely nice guy, but still socially inept, he'd be just as disliked, it just wouldn't be as vocal. If you have bad social skills, you've been born cursed. Most people won't like you. Whereas people with good social skills are universally loved and successful at anything they do. That's just the way things are.

I don't have to like it.

I had AWFUL social skills, many years later I'm succesful in almost anything I do, I'm fine between people and I'm considered smart and funny. It's not a curse, you have to fight and better yourself.

To stay on topic... Fish isn't socially inept, he's just an ass most of the times, there's no social ineptitude in calling people names and telling guys to kill themselves.

 

[pelican]

Phil Fish is Phil Fish. He has his quirks.

But the "angry gamer" persona is pretty embarrassing. It is hardly professional journalism.

 

[Moosehole]

This guy has the maturity of an 8 year old. Good riddance.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Phil Fish is Phil Fish. He has his quirks.

But the "angry gamer" persona is pretty embarrassing. It is hardly professional journalism.

You could say it's not journalism at all! And you'd be right. Because it isn't. And it never was intended to be.

Beer's just a shock jock. A bad one, but that's what he is.

 

[mr teaspoon]

You forget the part where he's incapable of taking an ounce of criticism, talks shit about other devs like they're beneath him, rude to his fans, doesn't know how to control his own temper and acts like an immature twit.

Look, say what you want about Phil Fish. List every single one of the rude things he has said or done in the past, none of it is going to logically lead you to '...therefore, he is obligated to speak to games journalists on demand'.

There seems to be 3 factors in play here:

1) Phil Fish's past assholery

2) Marcus Beer's hectoring him for comment

3) Phil Fish's subsequent overreaction

We can talk about 1 and 3 all day long, but they don't justify 2.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Being socially inept and introverted and being an ass aren't mutually exclusive. Fish fell into the latter group for many people.

I'd say the majority of GAFers are probably introverts, not sure what you're talking about there.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sure.

Gaf is full of good looking, intelligent, successful people who party and go to clubs and do things like that. I highly doubt the majority of Gaffers are introverts.

@Green Slime: I can't prove it.

I'm not depressed because of Fish, but I keep reading responses that label social ineptitude as a problem or a reason why he's a shitty person. And I just keep thinking, oh....that's how most people think of introverts.

I'm tired of it.

But then again, the more I think about it, Fish probably beat up introverts and held their heads in toilets as a kid with his attitude. Who knows. I came in here trying to rationalize some of the hate for him away, now I leave feeling shitty.

I'm going to go do something else and forget Phil Fish exists.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Don't act like a prick if you don't want to be treated like one. I'm just assuming that this is about the constant bashing he receives on the Internet. While people may take it too far, he only has himself to blame. He knows how the Internet can be. He went out of his way to make himself a target for abuse.

Either way, whatever. If he were truly an artist that was passionate about what he did, the idea of quitting wouldn't be possible. Sure he might have to quit for financial reasons, but I don't think that's what's happening here. Taking a break for a while is fine, too. I just don't see how someone can cold turkey quit on caring about their biggest passion. It's not like some day job that he just did to get by.

 

[Principate]

Id rather have enjoyed his future games and continued not caring what he said. I think those who taunted him have just as much a problem as he does. Why the hell do they care what he says anyways?! specially if they dont care about his games.

Umm people do that with all developers everywhere. Hell that stuff happens in much of celebrity culture real life. Thousands of people make complaints about what people said in virtually anything seen in tv.

This isn't a unique phenomenon. It's extremely common. Which is why you have to find a way to deal with or make do with the pressures or leave said industry.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Phil Fish is Phil Fish. He has his quirks.

But the "angry gamer" persona is pretty embarrassing. It is hardly professional journalism.

Dunno. Generally feel that what he gets pissed off about is a honest opinion.

 

[Metallix87]

I'm going to go do something else and forget Phil Fish exists.

I honestly hope everyone does the same.

 

[JWong]

Does he work with anyone?

 

[Hagi]

Phil Fish is Phil Fish. He has his quirks.

But the "angry gamer" persona is pretty embarrassing. It is hardly professional journalism.

It's not journalistic at all and he doesn't (to my knowledge) presents it as.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Eh nothing excuses that. there's no reason for you to tell someone to kill themselves whether jokingly or not (especially in text where it's very hard to tell either way).

I disagree. It doesn't even need to be a joke. You can't tear apart someone's character and identity to further your own standing at their expense, then expect them to be civil, jovial, witty, and considerate. If someone's relation to another person is nothing but disparaging comments from that person, that cut to their core, why would they care how that person feels? If you slap someone, you might get punched, not just slapped.

 

[ash_ag]

Fish may seem like a jerk with what he says, but as far as I know he hasn't done any harm. I mean, saying stuff like "Japanese games suck"... Sure, that's having a big mouth alright, but I doubt he actually even believes that. And his usual "rude" responses are mostly part of a vicious cycle which, well, he probably started with his nosy personality but is still babbling at best.

He deliberately seeks attention and I guess that if he can't take the backfire, this habit of his is a double-edged sword. People obviously enjoy concerning themselves with him -- unfortunately, negativity is more vocal, but that only natural. I suppose he doesn't understand that he has other choices than leaving the industry and that people who may actually respect him, respect him for his work and hence don't bother themselves with his Twitter account.

He's clearly a good designer, and it doesn't even matter if he's also a good person. I would argue that he has actually adopted a jerk-ish personality and is actually a better person than what meets the eye, but who knows? Hope he matures up and come back eventually.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Good. The game industry absolutely sucks and with the talents he has he can be making far more money doing something else and be treated with much more respect. I have no idea why any engineer would actually want to work in games outside of those at the bottom of the barrel. Personal interest is one thing but I would rather come home after a normal 40 hour week and PLAY my video games instead of slaving away at crunch time and taking shit for it.

i hear ya, the games industry is pretty damn unforgiving financially, emotionally, and in regards to time. you should really only make a game if the journey is enough. no money, no applause, not even the least bit of attention. hell, you should be ready for people to angrily shit all over your work if you show it off, because frankly, gamers are currently kind of mean bunch. they've been raised in hateful online forums (excluding gaf for the most part), hateful online matches, and they were probably hated on in school because it's a good hobby for the isolated. it's a cynical group of people that you're trying to please when you make a game, it sucks, but that just goes with the territory.

 

[Barzul]

I won't miss him.

 

[Warm Machine]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sure.

Gaf is full of good looking, intelligent, successful people who party and go to clubs and do things like that. I highly doubt the majority of Gaffers are introverts.

Go read one of the GAF virgin threads in the OT for a reality check.

 

[Petrae]

I'm willing to concede that some folks-- game players and media alike-- have given Phil Fish a devil of a time since his comments about Japanese games. We should, ideally, debate the message without attacking the messenger.

That said, stuff like this-- where he basically sheds the martyr tag and flips everyone off before allegedly riding off into the sunset-- is pretty bush league, too. Fish simply doesn't know what "the high road" is, and constantly walks the thin line between developer and instigator. I don't condone the rudeness that Fish has received, but there's provocation in many cases. When you act like a jerk in a public forum, chances are pretty good that you're going to get it right back.

There's no question that both sides of this Twitter Fight at the O.K. Corral share some responsibility. Not just Marcus. Not just Phil. It's just flat out embarrassing for this business as a whole. Peers and colleagues are shaking their heads in disappointment, while the rest of us just wait for the next meltdown... because that's what the video game industry has become: A reality show. The games are secondary.

 

[zkylon]

Holy shit, just getting caught up with this all and seen this:

Just... just wow. When he inevitably comes crawling back, and as Marcus also suggests, we all know he will, media should just straight up shun him. Hell, co-workers too. You don't want nunna dat crazy. Just walk away. Phil Fish is NO GOOD 4 U.

so marcus beer is allowed to shit on the blowfish but they're not allowed to fire back?

the media and the gamers shouldn't get involved in their petty meaningless fights, but we keep on giving them hits

 

[pelican]

Beer's just a shock jock. A bad one, but that's what he is.

So basically he is a middle aged man who swears to try and impress the kid gamers then...have some dignity. A children's tv presenter so to speak.

 

[Uthred]

By calling someone an asshole, you are automatically an asshole? Right?

Its the ancient law of assholes, who would dare defy it?

Okay, you're right, sorry.

But he admitted his condition under stress too, read the rest of his post.

You're still right though, he could be faking it. But I should know better, I studied to know if a person has a mental disease/condition, and he exhibits obvious signs of this. I'm not making assumptions, but I shouldn't have taken his word as fact either. I'm not defending him anyway, I said that he shouldn't have told Beer to go kill himself, but that we should at least understand the conditions in which he is. Whether or not he is bipolar, doesn't matter, what I know is that he has a mental condition, and he needs help. That is not an assumption I am making. That is something I am sure of.

But don't take my word as a fact or a defense of his behavior. I just don't condone people abusing of him either.

No need to apologise, I could have made my point and not been a dick about it. I agree that the abuse from any party isnt really excusable/shouldnt be condoned. Mr Fish's online personality was quite acerbic, he also seemed to be this way in "real life" as well. As such it's not a surprise that he receivied similiar treatement in return. But while it shouldnt surprise it I agree with you that we also shouldnt condone it.

A lot of people seem to be stopping at "This is not unexepected." without following up with "But it still shouldnt be acceptable". For an industry thats supposed to be so tech savy it's sad how unprofessional members of the industry constantly appear to be be on social media services (though obviously we the consumer often arent much better).

If you have bad social skills, you've been born cursed.

Skills is the operative word here, while personality and charisma are to a certain extent inborn traits social skills are a learned one that can be improved over time (as can charisma if you work at it).

 

[bhlaab]

Id rather have enjoyed his future games and continued not caring what he said. I think those who taunted him have just as much a problem as he does. Why the hell do they care what he says anyways?! specially if they dont care about his games.

Maybe if everyone tells him how wonderful they think he is he will grudgingly return!

 

[The_Monk]

I'm more depressed now that socially inept people are hated by the world in general, and this is just proof. I kind of just want my life to end now. I get more and more depressed the more I read. I don't want to live on a world where people with social problems or introverts are hated.

Oh, and I'm also a moron because I don't know the definition of the word tact, I guess. Why do I try.

Stop reading this thread fellow GAFfer.

Talk to someone, send me a PM, ignore all the negativism. Bad things, bad people will always be there, you just need to filter what you will absorb.

We GAF, the good GAFfers will always help those in need, if you want, let me, let us know how can we help.

---

Sorry for the offtopic fellow GAFfers.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'm more depressed now that socially inept people are hated by the world in general, and this is just proof. I kind of just want my life to end now. I get more and more depressed the more I read. I don't want to live on a world where people with social problems or introverts are hated.

Oh, and I'm also a moron because I don't know the definition of the word tact, I guess. Why do I try.

If this is an honest plea, please seek help. Call a suicide hotline or at least talk to someone, anyone, about it. Please.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Does he work with anyone?

This is what i wanna know?
Wtf are the staff around him thinking?

 

[Sami+]

Phil Fish is Phil Fish. He has his quirks.

But the "angry gamer" persona is pretty embarrassing. It is hardly professional journalism.

Yeah but the Annoyed Gamer is the Annoyed Gamer. He's got his quirks.

Phil Fish is just embarrassing. He's hardly professional at all.

Spoiler

they're both making asses of themselves

 

[King Allant]

Yeah. He, John Blow, and others have been using their soapbox position as famous indie developers to try to sway developer and public favour in the indie scene towards Sony and have been incredibly obvious and transparent about it, championing self publishing and support on the platforms.

MS changes their rules and the news story that needs to be told is the reaction these people have to that change of policy. That is an honest news story. Because the two of them were caught out after the chest pounding they have been doing they didn't want to play along for a legitimate story. Brian Provinciano had the balls to say what was on his mind with what information he had. Why are these two so damn afraid and feel like they are above such journalism?

All either of them had to say was... "Good to see MS has changed their policy and look to be following the direction set by other platform holders but there are still a lot of unknowns with Xbox One's indie publishing. For now we see a clear road ahead with Sony."

Done. Not a hint of asshole in there.

seriously, I mean it not that hard to say something like that, instead this blowup where everyone shaking there head at all parties involved

 

[Principate]

I disagree. It doesn't even need to be a joke. You can't tear apart someone's character and identity to further your own standing at their expense, then expect them to be civil, jovial, witty, and considerate. If someone's relation to another person is nothing but disparaging comments from that person, that cut to their core, why would they care how that person feels? If you slap someone, you might get punched, not just slapped.

If I told you to kill yourself over me disagreeing with your behaviour are you honestly saying there's nothing wrong with that behaviour and you wouldn't feel anything by it?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Go read one of the GAF virgin threads in the OT for a reality check.

Both are the reality, though. There are all types here on GAF.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sure.

Gaf is full of good looking, intelligent, successful people who party and go to clubs and do things like that. I highly doubt the majority of Gaffers are introverts.

Clearly you've not been at GAF for very long...

 

[eznark]

I guess now hell just be the Britney Spears of the unemployment line. Guy craves drama and attention more than any 15 year old girl on the planet.

 

[Crayons]

Go read one of the GAF virgin threads in the OT for a reality check.

No, in the thread last night I learned that GAF has sex on the first date.

 

[Naythan]

I don't feel much remorse for him. Sure the stress must have been immense but he isn't innocent in all of this, he riled people up and had plenty of outlandish behavior himself.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't think introverts or people with social problems are necessarily hated.

If you use that as an excuse to be insulting, then yes, that has consequences. This is not persecution of those who have trouble communicating with others, it is a desire to keep some degree of civility even if someone else isn't affording you the same kindness.

 

[Ratrat]

This sucks.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Beer was a jackass in the way he said it, but there was a kernel of truth: Fish gives his opinion on anything and everything, and both he and his defenders act like this is his noble unique trait that is the only source of all criticism against him. But then he acts like it's insulting and unbearable when people ask him for said opinions on things, as if he has no idea where his reputation as an outspoken developer came from.

I thought it was just them being irked that they were being pestered by multiple publications before the news was released? Should they feel inclined to give any one of them their exclusion opinion when they're just going to talk about it on twitter and the media will pick that up any way? Admittedly they could have been less obnoxious about it but I thought it all happened because the news hadn't broke yet.

 

[Brashnir]

So I guess this means we can move this and all other Phil Fish threads out of the Gaming forum.

Good riddance.

 

[Socreges]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sure.

Gaf is full of good looking, intelligent, successful people who party and go to clubs and do things like that. I highly doubt the majority of Gaffers are introverts.

@Green Slime: I can't prove it.

I'm not depressed because of Fish, but I keep reading responses that label social ineptitude as a problem or a reason why he's a shitty person. And I just keep thinking, oh....that's how most people think of introverts.

I'm tired of it.

But then again, the more I think about it, Fish probably beat up introverts and held their heads in toilets as a kid with his attitude. Who knows. I came in here trying to rationalize some of the hate for him away, now I leave feeling shitty.

I'm going to go do something else and forget Phil Fish exists.

Only if they're also assholes to other people because of their own underlying insecurities.

 

[Treefingers]

Don't act like a prick if you don't want to be treated like one. I'm just assuming that this is about the constant bashing he receives on the Internet. While people may take it too far, he only has himself to blame. He knows how the Internet can be. He went out of his way to make himself a target for abuse.

Either way, whatever. If he were truly an artist that was passionate about what he did, the idea of quitting wouldn't be possible. Sure he might have to quit for financial reasons, but I don't think that's what's happening here. Taking a break for a while is fine, too. I just don't see how someone can cold turkey quit on caring about their biggest passion. It's not like some day job that he just did to get by.

No, he also has internet assholes to blame.

He is partially to blame but a lot of people here are using his supposedly being an asshole as an excuse to be assholes themselves. That is no excuse.