Support NeoGAF

[Noi]

Area damage is area damage, why should'nt be hitting all of them? Like in the old FF, it's meant to hit more than one characters. You have the false illusion that you should move the characters away but it's part of the BS's rulez their position on the field and the risks of being there in that particular moment. I think to remember casters tended to be at distance and attackers closer to the enemies, that's how the law was applied. Yes of course, I understand the frustration in seeing all them together but... this is not ninja gaiden and u play under different rules.

Bullshit. FFXII has fake illusion of free movement, a character getting targeted by an enemy goes through the traditional process of applying evasion rates to the attack to see if it'll miss. XIII follows action game rules where getting hit by an attack's hitbox is what causes damage, but doesn't actually give you the means to control your character's movements. This wouldn't be a problem if you could customize the AI or give movement orders, but instead you get stupid situations like your party members randomly deciding to stand right next to an adamantoise's legs where his ground stomp does the most damage instead of backing up to lessen it, or just outright get hit by AoE attacks that hit everyone except a character who luckily happened to stand in the attack's blindspot or was out of it's range without you doing a thing. Among the many dubious design choices in LR , free movement is one that's actually 100% good since they're still keeping the same rules of combat to attacks.

Being able to take every enemy attack to the face and shrug it off isn't a testament to how field positioning wasn't important, it's evidence to how easy the game was that you have an undercooked game mechanic for movement and can still beat the game with that handicap. I shouldn't have to use SEN/SEN/SEN as a means to reduce the damage an attack does when I could avoid it entirely if the game just let me take 5 steps in any direction. I'm reminded of how when I first beat Ultros & Typhon in XIII-2, the only reason I beat them was because an enemy attack arbitrarily managed to split up Noel and Serah a good distance, making Typhon's Snort only hit Noel when provoked and never hitting Serah or the 3rd creature. All I could wonder is why the game didn't just let me do that in the first place.

 

[dramatis]

Many other games have it, but I think FFXIII gets by fine without it.

I don't see how using an attack to move around the field or dodge is an accident. It was probably intended by the developers, but the game wasn't balanced around it. It was never necessary. If they had made it more straightforward, that would just mean the game would be harder and require you to do it for normal runs.

Perhaps the problem with uncontrollable AI is that you expect your party members to do everything for you. You send out your Chocobo healer and expect to never die, and if you do you blame the system. But why not use a Potion? Why not shift to Sentinel to block attacks? Build your characters more defensively? Level up your Chocobo for some new heals? Paradigm Shift for more healing ATB? Why not play the MED yourself? When I did a Secondary Role run of FFXIII, AI Snow wasn't able to heal through some of the tougher mission fights. That just meant I played MED and did the job well. It was actually sort of empowering and added variety.

You go on and on about the alternative choices, but that doesn't excuse the poor AI. What is the point of additional party members if the party cannot support each other in dire circumstances? Why can't we have party AI that are smart enough to get out of the way instead of taking damage and wasting your time with needing heals? AI wouldn't be a complaint if it weren't so dumb (see original Persona 3), and the stupidity of the AI becomes more prominent if you cannot switch to manual control of your AI buddies. Why should you the player have to compensate for shitty AI? Tales and Star Ocean players will tell you how shit the AI is, yet there's enough AI manipulation available that you can have AI performing decently in heavy-duty circumstances. Why is it excusable not to have an AI management system just because you can play differently to support their shortcomings?

For example, in this video the player picks a specific strategy and has his party members set to fire off the exact ability he wants each of them to spam, and they perform exactly like he wants them to. He also does another one (several others really) where he has a different strategy that involves manual control over all the characters and significant setup and incredible execution. This is empowering and adding variety, not because the player needed to make up for the shortcomings of AI or balance in the game, but because the player cooked up crazy ideas with the tools he had and expended the time and effort to break the damn system. 13 and 13-2 are too restrictive for that.

 

[Femmeworth]

Oh come the hell on.

Because of that?

I didn't say how much. Still, stupid fanservice shit like that is a turnoff.

 

[Perfo]

They have LR panel and they spend it on showing how many kawaii costumes Lightning can wear.

They spent 3 minutes on the topic. You're confusing NEOgaf with that panel now?

And the funny part is that he says the game will be "polished" up more than what we've seen but we know now, thanks to the Q&A, that they are wrapping up development in 2 weeks.
.

I don't think they implied that the entire development is ending now but rather the phase in which they can "add" stuff to it ends in 2 weeks. The answer infact was given in response to a question regarding the possibility of having other characters like Hope join her in battle. That's of course a major change in the gameplay structure so they can't do that at the last moment, that means in the next two weeks. The next months like for any other game will wrap up the game and polish it as much as possible for the release.

 

[Midou]

Bullshit. FFXII has fake illusion of free movement, a character getting targeted by an enemy goes through the traditional process of applying evasion rates to the attack to see if it'll miss. XIII follows action game rules where getting hit by an attack's hitbox is what causes damage, but doesn't actually give you the means to control your character's movements. This wouldn't be a problem if you could customize the AI or give movement orders, but instead you get stupid situations like your party members randomly deciding to stand right next to an adamantoise's legs where his ground stomp does the most damage instead of backing up to lessen it, or just outright get hit by AoE attacks that hit everyone except a character who luckily happened to stand in the attack's blindspot or was out of it's range without you doing a thing. Among the many dubious design choices in LR , free movement is one that's actually 100% good since they're still keeping the same rules of combat to attacks.

Yes, this is what I've been saying, but I have not articulated it as well. It FEELS like there are hit boxes when in fact it PLAYS like a turn-based RPG.

I get it's balanced for it, and it's not like you can't beat the game, but that is why it's mostly shit. The game was designed so you could win battles in this half-assed hybrid that doesn't benefit either genre.

If FFXIII and FFXIII-2 allowed you to run around, dodge, or whatever else, while balancing the game for all that, it would have been a VASTLY superior battle system.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Bullshit. FFXII has fake illusion of free movement, a character getting targeted by an enemy goes through the traditional process of applying evasion rates to the attack to see if it'll miss. XIII follows action game rules where getting hit by an attack's hitbox is what causes damage, but doesn't actually give you the means to control your character's movements. This wouldn't be a problem if you could customize the AI or give movement orders, but instead you get stupid situations like your party members randomly deciding to stand right next to an adamantoise's legs where his ground stomp does the most damage instead of backing up to lessen it, or just outright get hit by AoE attacks that hit everyone except a character who luckily happened to stand in the attack's blindspot or was out of it's range without you doing a thing. Among the many dubious design choices in LR , free movement is one that's actually 100% good since they're still keeping the same rules of combat to attacks.

Being able to take every enemy attack to the face and shrug it off isn't a testament to how field positioning wasn't important, it's evidence to how easy the game was that you have an undercooked game mechanic for movement and can still beat the game with that handicap. I shouldn't have to use SEN/SEN/SEN as a means to reduce the damage an attack does when I could avoid it entirely if the game just let me take 5 steps in any direction. I'm reminded of how when I first beat Ultros & Typhon in XIII-2, the only reason I beat them was because an enemy attack arbitrarily managed to split up Noel and Serah a good distance, making Typhon's Snort only hit Noel when provoked and never hitting Serah or the 3rd creature. All I could wonder is why the game didn't just let me do that in the first place.

And then there was just stupid stuff like "Two Commandos will not target the same enemy", "Two Sentinels will target the same enemy instead of different enemies", "Medics will prioritize Esuna even when it makes no damn sense to (AKA I have a minor status debuff on my Sentinel while said Sentinel is low on health... and the AI won't heal him/her if he/she is past a very specific HP number)", and "Ravagers will alternate between strikes and spells in mid air all the time". And there was literally nothing I could do to change this. I had fun with XIII's battle system, but it didn't exactly have very good AI. Something that wouldn't have been a problem if I had the freedom to dictate their actions on some base level.

 

[Perfo]

And then there was just stupid stuff like "Two Commandos will not target the same enemy", "Two Sentinels will target the same enemy instead of different enemies", "Medics will prioritize Esuna even when it makes no damn sense to (AKA I have a minor status debuff on my Sentinel while said Sentinel is low on health... and the AI won't heal him/her if he/she is past a very specific HP number)", and "Ravagers will alternate between strikes and spells in mid air all the time". And there was literally nothing I could do to change this. I had fun with XIII's battle system, but it didn't exactly have very good AI.

And then there's that stupid TOWER in chess that moves only straight! And there was literally nothing I could do to change this.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

And then there's that stupid TOWER in chess that moves only straight! And there was literally nothing I could do to change this.

Right, because it would be completely illogical of me to expect that I could have both damage dealing characters target the same enemy. That's like saying two Rooks can't move in on the same piece because... reasons. I'm not complaining that a Rook can't move diagonally, I'm complaining that one of my Rooks refuses to adhere to common sense and does its own thing.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

-It is true the Ligtning's Bust size increased from C cup to D cup in LR. Its done by Toriyama.
-There will be costumes that makes your bust size bigger or smaller.

Toriyama.

 

[Midou]

And then there's that stupid TOWER in chess that moves only straight! And there was literally nothing I could do to change this.

Can it be possible you are this blind to the game's faults? This is like someone defending Skyrim's loot system. There have been several long posts that have delved into the game's flaws and the only points you make are "FFXIII has the best this or the best that", without ever going into much detail. All you can do is try to say that past FFs have similar flaws even when that argument is factually incorrect.

If you simply said you loved the simplicity of FFXIII's battle system and not having to put up with character customization, movement or party control, it would at least show what kind of games you like. Yet all you continue to do is defend the systems with awful and out of place comparisons.

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

And then there's that stupid TOWER in chess that moves only straight! And there was literally nothing I could do to change this.

...wut.

Is Perfo Toriyama?

 

[Riposte]

I was half expecting this to come up, yet certain actions in the game are 'defensive' and have that party move out of the hostile area. It is directly meant to work that way.

Switching to Sentinel and Medic is probably more viable and less punishing than retreating in The Last Remnant (at least in certain situations).

 

[Perfo]

Right, because it would be completely illogical of me to expect that I could have both damage dealing characters target the same enemy. That's like saying two Rooks can't move in on the same piece because... reasons. I'm not complaining that a Rook can't move diagonally, I'm complaining that one of my Rooks refuses to adhere to common sense and does its own thing.

Accepting it as a game design choice to make maybe things more complex to decide is too difficult? Obviously the two commandos attacking different enemies doesn't have anything to do with bad AI but it's just a matter of how the BS has been designed and works. You might not like that choice, but it works for me. As for the AI's movements, I have to admit sometimes they acted weirdly. That's a problem with the AI and doesn't have much to do with design of the BS itself like in the case you instead mentioned.

 

[Midou]

Switching to Sentinel and Medic is probably more viable and less punishing than retreating in The Last Remnant.

I don't remember how all the systems worked in TLR, but I remember by setting up 2-3 parties to be dedicated healers, they all moved out of the way so I could focus on one or two parties being main attackers. I had a relatively easy time with Hell's Gate because of how I positioned my parties, and I remember them doing exactly what I wanted them to.

Accepting it as a game design choice to make maybe things more complex to decide is too difficult? Obviously the two commandos attacking different enemies doesn't have anything to do with bad AI but it's just a matter of how the BS has been designed and works. You might not like that choice, but it works for me. As for the AI's movements, I have to admit sometimes they acted weirdly. That's a problem with the AI and doesn't have much to do with design of the BS itself like in the case you instead mentioned.

In your first statement you mentioned that how the AI decides to act as a commando is part of the battle system, then you say the way they move is not part of the battle system. It's ALL part of the battle system. I like how conveniently, things you want to acknowledge as 'flaws', suddenly don't count in the same way as the things you ignore. Also, no one is saying things aren't working as the game was designed for them to work, everyone acknowledges it was a design choice and is arguing that it's a poor one.

I'm out too, it's clear no posts are actually read by Perfo, or there is FFXIII rose-coloured vision while reading and it makes genuine flaws appear to be 'good design choices'.

 

[Perfo]

...wut.

Is Perfo Toriyama?

Perfo is Perfo. One and Only.

And yes. Toriyama will direct FFXVI.

Yes I know, you didn't ask for this, just deal with it. And I'll party the whole night long.

Now... I go to work T.T

 

[dramatis]

Accepting it as a game design choice to make maybe things more complex to decide is too difficult? Obviously the two commandos attacking different enemies doesn't have anything to do with bad AI but it's just a matter of how the BS has been designed and works. You might not like that choice, but it works for me. As for the AI's movements, I have to admit sometimes they acted weirdly. That's a problem with the AI and doesn't have much to do with design of the BS itself like in the case you instead mentioned.

Then it is simply a bad design choice. Even White Knight Chronicles gave you shallow AI manipulation in which you can direct your party to focus on one target or on multiple targets. The choice of how you want your party to target enemies should not be arbitrarily decided on by the designers but by the player.

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

Perfo is Perfo. One and Only.

And yes. Toriyama will direct FFXVI.

Yes I know, you didn't ask for this, just deal with it. And I'll party the whole night long.

Now... I go to work T.T

It's not like I absolutely hate Toriyama.

I enjoyed FFX and he had quite a bit to do with it, it's just he got obsessed with his own creation and I wonder if he will EVER let go of Lightning.

Oh yeah and that 3rd Birthday...thing.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Accepting it as a game design choice to make maybe things more complex to decide is too difficult? Obviously the two commandos attacking different enemies doesn't have anything to do with bad AI but it's just a matter of how the BS has been designed and works. You might not like that choice, but it works for me. As for the AI's movements, I have to admit sometimes they acted weirdly. That's a problem with the AI and doesn't have much to do with design of the BS itself like in the case you instead mentioned.

It was lack of foresight on the designers part that lead to that decision, not because they honestly thought "I'll make it impossible for the player to target the same enemy for no apparent reason despite it making 100% perfect sense to do so" was a good idea. And if that was intentional then they need a better battle system designer because I should not have to compensate for an AI which not only patently refuses to follow basic common sense but also lacks basic customization which would allow me to avoid such situations.

 

[badcrumble]

And then there's that stupid TOWER in chess that moves only straight! And there was literally nothing I could do to change this.

This is one of the weirdest attempts at deflecting criticism I have ever seen. Yes, that is the way the game is designed. It is still shitty.

 

[Thaumaturgic Tomato]

Wishing for Final Fantasy XIII: Lightning Go Back to Where You Came From

 

[Mr. RHC]

Toriyama.

Work Lightning into this gif and you will be my hero!

Oh wow, we are really discussing cup sizes as exclusive news for an upcoming Final Fantasy game?

Final Fantasy XV can't come soon enough.

 

[Vashetti]

Final Fantasy XV can't come soon enough.

Lightning as final boss confirmed.

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

Lightning as final boss confirmed.

You think this is a joke but I have this omnious feeling she will be the super secret optional boss.

Nomura must be strong and not let be pushed around.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Lightning as final boss confirmed.

Did they confirm Snow as a final boss in LR, it looks like it in one of the trailers. That would be cool news, spoilers, but cool news.

 

[Goli]

Work Lightning into this gif and you will be my hero!

Oh wow, we are really discussing cup sizes as exclusive news for an upcoming Final Fantasy game?

Final Fantasy XV can't come soon enough.

When FFXV comes we'll be discussing bulge sizes instead.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I don't believe that for a second. You only have to look as far as the way the mainstream media treated FF at E3 so see how far the brand has fallen outside of hardcore message boards. And even then the amount of people who aren't happy with XV's action-based systems is already evident.

At least to me, the mainstream media in the games industry isn't representative of anything or anyone. However they treated FF at E3 (I thought it was largely positive) it didn't stop the FFXV reveal from being one of the most talked about games of the show. If I remember correctly, FFXV was tracking pretty damn high among the heavy hitters on all the websites. So really, how are they a barometer especially when the game in question was only a video at a conference where the biggest news was the unveiling of two brand new consoles? That FFXV got any buzz is probably a good thing. Besides, a few positive previews and the media's narrative is going to change from "SE in trouble" to "The resurrection of SE".

Moving on, while I agree that the brand has taken a hit, I still think the cynicism surrounding FF right now is relegated to only this set of games. FFXV is going to be part of a new gen of consoles, with a new story, new combat, and a set of expectations that it can actually reach. It doesn't have to be better than FFX. It has to be better than FFXIII. If FFXV is anything even remotely close to what the trailer showed and what Nomura is promising, what's going to be the FF fan's excuse for avoiding it? How many games look and play like that? Moreover, how many Japanese games can claim that kind of production value?

The kind of games the FF games have traditionally been are a dying breed on consoles. They'll only get rarer as costs get higher. FF is the last one left on consoles for people who want the kind of RPG only Japan can provide. I can't imagine even former FF fans not having the slightest bit of interest in an FF game that looks like XV.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Perfo is Perfo. One and Only.

And yes. Toriyama will direct FFXVI.

Yes I know, you didn't ask for this, just deal with it. And I'll party the whole night long.

Now... I go to work T.T

Perfo, stop saying this as fact. Verendus has even openly told you that Toriyama is NOT directing FFXVI. So your comment is wishful speculation at best.

On another note, I really feel bad for Lightning. She could have been a really cool character in design and concept, it's just that they messed up her execution so bad =/

 

[Esura]

When FFXV comes we'll be discussing bulge sizes instead.

I doubt they would be discussing bulge sizes because its not the same as discussing cup sizes. Maybe they'd be talking about Noctis and the gang and their abs and shit glistening in the sun, sweat dripping off their erect nipples while bro hugging in the sun talking about bro shit.

 

[dramatis]

If I remember correctly, FFXV was tracking pretty damn high among the heavy hitters on all the websites.

Kingdom Hearts 3 was actually tracking higher than it.

 

[Toth]

I don't believe that for a second. You only have to look as far as the way the mainstream media treated FF at E3 so see how far the brand has fallen outside of hardcore message boards. And even then the amount of people who aren't happy with XV's action-based systems is already evident.

One can argue that the market for RPGs has changed considerably since the older days. PC games, action based games, FPSes, and Western RPGs have become the main American interests. Very few big Japanese games have been successful in NA for years now (am I wrong to say MGS and FF have been the only games to crack more than 1 million outside of Japan?).

edit: and not including Nintendo exclusives.

 

[Esura]

Kingdom Hearts 3 was actually tracking higher than it.

Not surprising, considering that unlike FF us KH fans been without a new console entry for an entire console generation. You could taste the hype for KH3 reveal.

 

[MagiusNecros]

*interest in Type-0 decreases*

There's a different motive as to why you are spying on the pretty lady in the first place and is quite clever.

 

[Kagari]

One can argue that the market for RPGs has changed considerably since the older days. PC games, action based games, FPSes, and Western RPGs have become the main American interests. Very few big Japanese games have been successful in NA for years now (am I wrong to say MGS and FF have been the only games to crack more than 1 million outside of Japan?).

edit: and not including Nintendo exclusives.

And some of those people who've moved on used to be FF fans.

 

[MagiusNecros]

And some of those people who've moved on used to be FF fans.

"If most JRPGs-regardless of the size of their budgets-have abandoned any attempt at progress and retreated to the safety of past successes, then isn't that the real reason the world is moving on without them?" -Tetsuya Takahashi

 

[Esura]

And some of those people who've moved on used to be FF fans.

What's to say they moved on solely because of FFXIII? It could be other factors as well.

 

[Setsuna]

And then there was just stupid stuff like "Two Commandos will not target the same enemy", "Two Sentinels will target the same enemy instead of different enemies", "Medics will prioritize Esuna even when it makes no damn sense to (AKA I have a minor status debuff on my Sentinel while said Sentinel is low on health... and the AI won't heal him/her if he/she is past a very specific HP number)", and "Ravagers will alternate between strikes and spells in mid air all the time". And there was literally nothing I could do to change this. I had fun with XIII's battle system, but it didn't exactly have very good AI. Something that wouldn't have been a problem if I had the freedom to dictate their actions on some base level.

The only reason I can see to have two commandos on the field, is to have 2 stagger gauges high at the same time. In which case you can have the ally commando attack a target and then choose to attack a different target after the AI goes in. But then again it would be better to just use three ravagers with aoe spells

The only reason the medic would choose esuna before a heal is if the character took damage after the spells were selected thats not really a AI problem its a timing problem

ravagers alternate because strikes and spells because it gives a higher boost to stagger than casting just spells or strikes depending on the enemys resist stats over all from an AI stand point its the superior choice but they werent really expecting cast times to make a huge difference on combat effectiveness

 

[MagiusNecros]

What's to say they moved on solely because of FFXIII? It could be other factors as well.

XIII is just a factor among many. The bigger factors are more with the companies poor decisions and mismanagement. Along with relying on short term profit goals that don't quite cut it as far as long term is concerned. It isn't just one specific game's fault. XIII may have played a role but so did XIV's terrible launch and again the companies current decisions. Not to mention bad PR not only with the fanbase(and specifically they only take notice of the Japanese fanbase, their core audience) but also with their NA and EUR branches especially when the Japan branch calls the shots.

 

[Goli]

"If most JRPGs-regardless of the size of their budgets-have abandoned any attempt at progress and retreated to the safety of past successes, then isn't that the real reason the world is moving on without them?" -Tetsuya Takahashi

Well, SE has been trying new things with FF lately but everyone hates them.

 

[spirity]

im sorry spirity-dono

2. Dono

A lanky person with an overly sized head and underly small penis

That that back. I'm not lanky.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Well, SE has been trying new things with FF lately but everyone hates them.

FFXIII didn't really try new things. It was more linear and repetitive than ever. The battle system was being done via separate screens again, but now somewhat more Grandia in terms of speed. FFXIII-2 was a downgrade from FFXIII. And Lightning Returns seems to try some basic 3D action adventure stuff. The games do look kinda ancient in terms of gameplay and mechanics.

FFXII was the game that moved the series forward the most and it was highly reviewed and succesful in both Japan and the West. They should've built from there, increasing the scope of the world for starters.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well, SE has been trying new things with FF lately but everyone hates them.

Depends on the definition of the word "new" and in what context you implement it towards.

Sure an Action RPG FF(Type 0) was new. Sure a linear and story driven FF was new(XIII series). But it has been done before and at it's core isn't "new" persay at all.

And as above. XII was the one that innovated the series. The problem was SE did not want Final Fantasy to evolve and take that big leap with unpredictable risks during that big jump. They were scared.

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

What's to say they moved on solely because of FFXIII? It could be other factors as well.

FFXIII
Needless sequels to FFXIII
Versus absence
The actually good FF (Type 0) nowhere to be seen in the west
Pitiful output on this gen

People not only lost faith in FF franchise, they completely lost faith in SE.

FFXV needs to hit hard.

 

[LuuKyK]

And some of those people who've moved on used to be FF fans.

Honestly, if someone moved on because of one game that didnt reach said so called super high standards overly influenced by nostalgia, in a series that include dozens of games, he/she was not that big of a fan in the first place. A real fan stays with its beloved franchise/company in its higs and lows. Being supportive all the time is part of the principle of being a faithful fan after all. Thats how I see it, and part of the reason why I despise some (some because not all are like that, some have real reasons to dislike the game, and thats understandable) of the badwagoon haters that dare say they were fans one day. But thats just me.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Well, SE has been trying new things with FF lately but everyone hates them.

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[Toth]

XIII is just a factor among many. The bigger factors are more with the companies poor decisions and mismanagement. Along with relying on short term profit goals that don't quite cut it as far as long term is concerned. It isn't just one specific game's fault. XIII may have played a role but so did XIV's terrible launch and again the companies current decisions. Not to mention bad PR not only with the fanbase(and specifically they only take notice of the Japanese fanbase, their core audience) but also with their NA and EUR branches especially when the Japan branch calls the shots.

Finally, a Magius post I agree with! This is what I was kinda getting at Kagari. FF was most popular when JP games were the big name in games. As this generation comes to a close, there is a clear shift to western development and games compared to the old days.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Honestly, if someone moved on because of one game that didnt reach said so called super high standards overly influenced by nostalgia, in a series that include dozens of games, he/she was not that big of a fan in the first place. A real fan stays with its beloved franchise/company in its higs and lows. Being supportive all the time is part of the principle of being a fan after all. Thats how I see it, and part of the reason why I despise this badwagoon haters that dare say they were fans one day. But thats just me.

8 years (2006 - 2014: Dirge of Cerberus, XIII, XIII-2, LR, XIV, no Type 0 localization, Versus XIII gong show, XIV 2.0 cancelling many games and delaying many others, All the Bravest bullcrap,) is a long ass time for someone to be supportive if you absolutely despise the direction SE has taken. And if you didn't like XII and X-2, it's been a 12 year low.

 

[Kagari]

What's to say they moved on solely because of FFXIII? It could be other factors as well.

What else was there for them?

 

[zeopower6]

Lack of Type-0 localization (wasn't it worked on a while back?) is understandable though... the PSP is pretty much dead in the West and has been for years.

 

[LuuKyK]

What else was there for them?

I know some people who simply stopped enjoying RPGs/JRPGs, maybe because they got older and dont enjoy them anymore, at least not the same way they used to. Or maybe franchise fatigue? Who knows. I agree most people probably did it because of XIII, but there are definetely other possibilities.

 

[Goli]

FFXIII didn't really try new things. It was more linear and repetitive than ever. The battle system was being done via separate screens again, but now somewhat more Grandia in terms of speed. FFXIII-2 was a downgrade from FFXIII. And Lightning Returns seems to try some basic 3D action adventure stuff. The games do look kinda ancient in terms of gameplay and mechanics.

Depends on the definition of the word "new" and in what context you implement it towards.

Sure an Action RPG FF(Type 0) was new. Sure a linear and story driven FF was new(XIII series). But it has been done before and at it's core isn't "new" persay at all.

And as above. XII was the one that innovated the series. The problem was SE did not want Final Fantasy to evolve and take that big leap with unpredictable risks during that big jump. They were scared.

Nothing at its core is new, everything everyone does is influenced by the things we've all experienced, the thing is taking those things and putting them in ways that haven't been done before, that is the very principle of innovation, which is basically what SE has done with the FF franchise since it was created. They took things from other games/related media and put them in ways others hadn't before and found success in doing so, but each time they've changed it in various ways since change is, paradoxically, the only thing that really ties all FF games.

Also... per say? Per se.