Wired: Final Fantasy Isn’t Dying. It’s Already Dead

It's been going downhill since Final Fantasy 7 in my opinion
(not including FFT but that game is wonderful too),
but up until Final Fantasy 12, the series was still worth playing.

This generation's Final Fantasy games were not worthy of the name. The artwork was beautiful. The production values were good but the script, which is the most important thing of all, was mediocre and uninspired. This is 2013 and you're competing against TLOU now.

I no longer buy FF games at launch. This is coming from someone who thinks ff6 and ff7 were among the top5 games of their respective consoles.
 
I don't think it matters really, at least for me.

Male oriented, female oriented, it is all good as long as the characters are well written and it makes sense in the context of the story.

It seems all of the main characters in FFXV know each other since childhood, seems refreshing.

One things for sure ANY story will be clearer and easier to follow than the confusing mess from the writers of XIII. I mean we can only go up from here. :)

Also I like Shakespeare inspired stuff. So I have a good feeling.
 
I don't get the people saying FF died when Gooch left.
Have you not played Lost Odyssey or Blue Dragon? Dude was stuck in the 90s until The Last Story. It would've perhaps died a slower death.
 
Are you for real? I count at least 2 major female characters and perhaps many more unannounced ones.

If the chocobo and moogle minorities will represent, remains to be seen.
How could you even judge such a thing without even having played the game.You don't know the screen time of each of these characters.

Even though they listened to this criticism it's still a weak argument.

I'm not saying there's no possibility for either of those two females to be well written and have prominent roles in the story. I'm explaining why for many people, it's disappointing not to have a female playable and in the party because it's been around in every mainline game.

X-2 was the breaking point for me, the all female dress up stuff was proof to me they had given up.

You mean the job system that made the game have one of the best battle systems in the franchise? Sounds to me like you're just against the idea of an all female cast. Hm.
 
Let's just pin this on Nomura and move on. Final Fantasy used to be about badass dark knights fighting evil. Now all the characters look like fucking J-pop wannabes prancing about between hair appointments
 
I literally have hardly seen anything about the game. There are things I like about and things that concern me, but it's too early for me to say anything about where I'll end up on that. Positives at the moment - large explorable overworld, seemingly more open ended, vehicles, visuals. Negatives - I feel the combat seems very shallow right now, and I don't want FF to become a pure action RPG.

Edit: I'm really hoping it turns out well, though. I'm starting to lose hope in the series and I would like to see a return to form.

Already has XIII beat, a good start IMO. ;)

Let's hope for the best.
 
Let's just pin this on Nomura and move on. Final Fantasy used to be about badass dark knights fighting evil. Now all the characters look like fucking J-pop wannabes prancing about between hair appointments

I really don't care much about how the characters look. There's far more broken in Final Fantasy than j-pop tendencies.
 
Then why is it you have tears in your eyes? Could it be... the truth? :P

It just hurts friend. When people try to motivate my favorite gaming company and creators by using disgustingly demonic and inflammatory language thinking they are motivating them into making classic games, i feel disgust. I feel emotion and i swell. LEAVE MY FINAL FANTASY ALONE. People saying they fell off but they gave friends 3 very well thought out RPG's this gen. Lets cut them some slack like our seamstresses. I believe if final fantasy 15 has the proper epic spells, summons, attacks and sidequests it will put square back on the map and back on their thrown. The crown is tilted but it never fell off, friend. To say so, should hurt the credibility of any journalist with the courage to publish such statements.

But thats just my opinion, friend.
 
I'm not saying there's no possibility for either of those two females to be well written and have prominent roles in the story. I'm explaining why for many people, it's disappointing not to have a female playable and in the party because it's been around in every mainline game.

I think it would be disappointing if they revealed every playable character, it might even spoil the story.

I want into Final Fantasy VII fresh, so when new characters joined your party it was a nice surprise.

Nothing is stopping XV from having a female party member later on in the game.
 
Much ado about nothing.

FF XII was a milestone.
FF Crisis Core was a great prequel.
Advent Children was a great sequel.
Dissidia was a brilliant idea.
FF XIII broke out of dead cliches.
FF XIII-2 was fairly good.

...And all of them were actually very successful. Some of you have a sick obsession.
 
The MMOs hurt the brand the most. They should have been Final Fantasy Online. There are plenty of gamers who never played 11, so it feels like a gap in the FF series.
 
I think it would be disappointing if they revealed every playable character, it might even spoil the story.

I want into Final Fantasy VII fresh, so when new characters joined your party it was a nice surprise.

Nothing is stopping XV from having a female party member later on in the game.

Completely true however I'm going by what Nomura said and IIRC, he said this would be it for playable characters.
 
remember the last time the FF characters all knew each other since childhood?

I think this will instantly make the characters seem more down to earth and you will quickly understand each character's personality. A good thing IMO. No more things like Lightning being cold to everyone etc haha.
 
Let's just pin this on Nomura and move on. Final Fantasy used to be about badass dark knights fighting evil. Now all the characters look like fucking J-pop wannabes prancing about between hair appointments

People forget Cecil's beautiful flowing hair and Lock's spiky fro so easily. Crazy hair is just a part of the series.

None of this shit is true.
You're right, DIssidia was more than a great idea. It was a great game!
 
"Dead" is a massive overstatement if you ask me. More like "grievously wounded if you ask me." If SE cuts off all ties from everything having to do with the XIII series and actually get their console production pipeline in order I think they cam make great Final Fantasies again.

I really disagree with the article's assertion that X-2 is where things started to go bad. I haven't played X-2, but I thought it was very popular, and didn't it sell nearly as well as X (or slightly more)? X-2, XI, and XII were all successes for SE. The problem has been XIII, XIV, and this entire console generation in general.

Like almost every other Japanese developer, SE just can't seem to actually get an HD console game done in a reasonable timeframe. If you look at XIII's postmortem at Gamasutra, it paints a development cycle plagued by aimlessness and technical problems. A big issue is that they weren't able to properly transition to middleware development with the Crystal Tools engine. And then there's how they planned out Fabula Nova Crystalis to be a whole franchise akin to the FFVII spinoffs before XIII was off the ground.

SE also probably intended XIV to bankroll everything else they were doing, and it's been a spectacular failure in planning, just like FNC, which SE has had to salvage with two XIII sequels, one of them with the help of Tri-Ace. Even though XIII was commercially successful, SE should've looked at the fan and critical reaction and dropped the whole FNC idea and just went forward with XV on a clean slate, or better yet, not planned the whole FNC thing in the first place and just let XIII launch as its own game, then see if it was viable as its own franchise.

Hopefully SE sees next gen as a chance to start over and we can just look back at the PS3/360 games as an isolated stumble.

They really better not fuck up XV. I don't think XV is gonna singlehandedly make the franchise as hot as it was during the PlayStation golden years but it can at least restore some confidence. I honestly still see it as Versus XIII but with a new name. That said, we still don't know really WHAT Versus XIII is. I have confidence it's very different from what they've been doing with the other XIII games because it's being worked on by the main Kingdom Hearts team.

And really, SE's handheld games over the past several years show that they are still capable of designing good games. They just seem to have a problem handling the most modern video game tech. Hopefully they can change gears on that.

The one thing I'm actually most interested in from SE is whatever they plan to make on the Luminous Engine. I don't think they've mentioned it at all in regards to XV, which leads me to believe that XV is still using old Crystal Tools tech in conjunction with DirectX 11. What I'm really waiting for is the next major production after that (XVI?) to see if it can look like the Agni's Philosophy trailer.

If SE can deliver that next-gen visual leap with the production values we know them for (even I'll admit XIII looked impressively flashy at first sight), and actually design a good game, I think they can restore confidence in FF.
 
ALL of them. Any team that works on the series, since the only FF that even had hints of really returning to greatness was FFXII, and that's only because it had Matsuno, and it still ended up a mess by the end. I say that as someone who probably thinks FFXII is one of his favorite FFs.
Matsuna left in the middle of development hence it became a mess as well. Not to mention SE was going through a difficult time and Wada wasn't really helping to make things any better. Be glad it didn't turn out to be complete crap, especially after such development hell.
 
Used to be a huge FF fan, but I have to agree that its had its life sucked out of it and I can't see myself getting excited by FF again. The thing they forgot about FF was that each iteration used to be a huge departure in terms of style and presentation. Each game was a totally standalone experience in terms of world history and themes. But somewhere along the way they adopted the same aesthetics and themes and recycled them over and over.

What happend to the days where a major character from your party could just suddenly die and be removed from your lineup? Or the realization that your heroic character that you have been playing for 40 hours might not be heroic or even a good person? Those themes were really mature and risky for the time.

Now everything in FF feels safe and warm and PG rated. Trading risky storytelling for bigger and badder monster battles.

I tried FF13 out and couldnt make it more than a few hours before turning it off because it just came across as trope after trope.

If they want to make FF standout again, they should choose a radical art style departure and tackle some new deeper themes. Sort of like the jump FF7 was to ff6. Take some real chances again, be bold.

Or at the very least if they don't want to take chances anymore and play it safe, then start making standalone spinoffs with Cloud, Squall, Auran, or other popular characters instead of creating generic standins that no one cares about.
 
I agree but I'll take it one step further and say SquareEnix is dead. To me anyway.

Their best division is Crystal Dynamics through the Eidos merger
 
None of this shit is true.

I think FF1-6 are all trash 'Press X to win' games. The games in that list certainly brought change to the series. FFXV looks to keep going in that direction while supposedly bringing back some cool features into the franchise. I'd rather have that than go back to the garbage gameplay of the SNES days.
 
All FF games are press x to win, if you don't press x you can't select commands.

>_>

The only exception is FF7, because that game is press O to win.
 
I just read this after seeing a few people freak out on Twitter all morning and I'm a little surprised.

It seems like people are reading it, but not really reading it; they're not trying to take in what the author is saying.

It's a very grounded post. FFXIV was a disaster, FFXIII (the Lightning Saga in general, really) is popularly consodered a disaster, X-2 going in fhe direction it did was dumb; These aren't ridiculous claims, they're things that have happened (and I like X-2!).

What is the example that Lightning Returns sets for the future? That's the question this guy is asking, and it's perfectly valid.

You could say the game doesn't owe anything to anyone other than itself and Lightning fans, I guess, but that's awfully selfish. Final Fantasy is more than that. Or it should be.
 
It's dead. It's become a full-on action-RPG that seems to continue the trend of focusing on storytelling first, gameplay second. Outside of that, people are only excited because they're easily impressed by fancy graphics. It's sad how a 1-minute X teaser trailer shows more actual gameplay than FFXV does in a 4+ minute gameplay trailer.

...*facepalms*

That's the entire reason why Light RPGs (JRPGs if you prefer) exist. The reason Hironobu Sakaguchi and Yuji Horii created Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest was to take a simplified Wizardry/Ultima gameplay experience and build Epic Fantasy stories around them. In most cases with JRPG's it almost always Story first, Gameplay second. If you're a fan of JRPGs, then you should know the history behind them and why narrative is important in these games.

Here are a couple of videos that explain this in full detail:
http://clanofthegraywolf.com/30/
 
The MMOs hurt the brand the most. They should have been Final Fantasy Online. There are plenty of gamers who never played 11, so it feels like a gap in the FF series.

It's their loss really. the MMO's have no hurt the brand at all.

Well... I mean to say, any worse than XIII probably did.

XIV 1.0 could of become something but had a rough start.
 
All FF games are press x to win, if you don't press x you can't select commands.

>_>

The only exception is FF7, because that game is press O to win.

The modern FF games brought many different systems to complement the "press x' gameplay. By press x I mean 99% of the battles can be blown through by either Attacking or selecting your most current/powerful spell meaning that very little thought is actually required of the player.
 
The one thing I'm actually most interested in from SE is whatever they plan to make on the Luminous Engine. I don't think they've mentioned it at all in regards to XV, which leads me to believe that XV is still using old Crystal Tools tech in conjunction with DirectX 11. What I'm really waiting for is the next major production after that (XVI?) to see if it can look like the Agni's Philosophy trailer.
15 is using some things from Luminous. Chances are, Crystal Tools has been buried in a hole somewhere and 15's just running on a custom engine.

With regards to Luminous though, I don't think the research studio's future is bright. Right after Wada left, they shut down applications to join the engine team, and just yesterday I saw Japan side is hiring for a development director for a mobile platform (Square Enix Bridge). In short, focus has shifted.
 
Oh man, I really mean no offense to anyone but threads like this are sooo sad !

For years and year people have moaned and cried and whelped and filled endless pages about Final Fantasy's death. You can rationalize it however you want but these games never seized to sell really well. I am not trying to defend anything but when I see Square announcing 9.6 million copies of XIII and XIII-2 shipped, in this market no less, everything in this thread loses ground.

I am sorry but you are wasting your time, this thread means nothing.
 
They probably know more than you. No offense, but you sound like you are in complete denial.

Those clips are clearly in game. Even Kagari, who was the first one to point out that the E3 reveal trailer was mostly target render, agreed that 90% of the gameplay trailer was real gameplay. It was possibly scripted with dumbed-down AI, but it was clearly real time footage. It's amazing how hard it is for people to acknowledge, even with all the screen tearing, stuttering framerates, and aliasing present in this early build video. This is a next-gen title. Of course it's going to look that good. That's the bear minimum I expect from open world games on future platforms.
 
I'm" baffled what "old school" Final Fantasy fans want from this franchise other than "making it like the old FFs" whatever that means. Seems to be a conflicting opinion around every corner and every new game released is the worst FF ever.
 
It's their loss really. the MMO's have no hurt the brand at all.

Well... I mean to say anyworse than XIII probably did.

XIV 1.0 could of become something but had a rough start.

I love FFXI but I still feel it should have been Final Fantasy Online. Plenty of people will want to say 'they've beaten every mainline FF', but they can't say that without adding 'the offline ones' or 'except for 11 and 14'.

I don't think people play FFXI because it's XI but because it's a great game. XIV I don't know about yet, I played all the betas for ARR but it's hard to know if it will catch on or last as many years as XI did (doubtful).

Having FF Online the way you have FF Tactics would not have been a detriment to anyone.

Oh man, I really mean no offense to anyone but threads like this are sooo sad !

For years and year people have moaned and cried and whelped and filled endless pages about Final Fantasy's death. You can rationalize it however you want but these games never seized to sell really well. I am not trying to defend anything but when I see Square announcing 9.6 million copies of XIII and XIII-2 shipped, in this market no less, everything in this thread loses ground.

I am sorry but you are wasting your time, this thread means nothing.

Still believe FFXIII-2's sales in the west go to show how negatively FFXIII was accepted. If there was a way to do a do-over, I believe it would have done a lot worse. Also, past FFs, on a single platform, still did great numbers, FFX + FFX2 did over 10 million combined last I remember, and that was on the PS2 alone. You can talk about 'this market' or 'that market', but the fact of the matter is, FFXIII is multi-plat, and there are more consoles sold now than in the previous generation.
 
The mere fact this thread exists should be evidence enough that the franchise has fallen off the deep end. Anyone here defending this brand is either a blatant fanboy or a cosplayer.

I used to LOVE Square games. Alas, nothing lasts forever and I'm not going to defend some perverted this J-pop fan service garbage.

"Well if you don't like it, don't play."

I haven't since XII. Couldn't stand to finish VIII. Gave up on X-2 and didn't bother with the XIIIs after playing the first 6 hours.
 
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