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[JerC]

I fully expect to see multiplatform games on both systems to be virtually identical. Not because of there respective powers but because that's how devs work.

If they are identical graphically then you should expect the FPS to be higher on the PS4. It does have a stronger GPU afterall.

 

[SMZC]

I was referring to XB1 vs PS4

it's more like watching people wage in internet war over whether a radeon 6770 is better than a GT650. It's a midrange card, buy whatever the fuck pleases you because 2-3fps isn't going to make a difference IRL.

The differences in this gen's multiplatform titles were enough to persuade me to make the Xbox 360 my main console. I care about specs, and I want the best graphics possible. I still want the advantages of console gaming, and refuse to get into PC gaming (nothing against it, but it's not for me). Why exactly shouldn't I care about specs?

 

[Zeth]

it's more like watching people wage in internet war over whether a radeon 6770 is better than a GT650. It's a midrange card, buy whatever the fuck pleases you because 2-3fps isn't going to make a difference IRL.

That's the thing, some people are expecting or hoping for a much bigger difference. It will make the comparisons pretty entertaining. Already, we're hearing how it will take two years or more before devs harness the power of x86.

 

[cyberheater]

I don't think you know how devs work. They won't ignore additional power because they have to compete with other third party and first party titles.

Ha ha. Well 80% of multi platform devs managed to ignore the additional power of PS3 the last time around.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

How big of a difference are you expecting?

This is hard to answer because it depends on what the actual devs of a specific game want to focus on. If I were a dev, I would probably try to achieve parity regarding fps and resolution, but increase the quality of effects (AF/AA, shadows, lighting, explosions etc and things like TressFX etc.) as much as possible.

Ha ha. Well 80% of multi platform devs managed to ignore the additional power of PS3 the last time around.

Because X360 and PS3 had completely different architectures. It's not like that with PS4 and X1. They both have GCN-GPUs, you can probably almost port the same code from X1 to PS4 and have better performance (better framerates). This gen, they had to actually invest a lot of work to exploit a power difference. Next gen will be a lot easier.

 

[beast786]

they have no horse in the race, they can say whatever they want. who would you rather listen to for impartiality? Cerny, quantic dream, or turn10?

kojima was on MS press conference . I am sure calling MS much inferior wouldn't be the best move

 

[Deleted member 752119]

On the other hand, next gen engines are designed to be scalable and adding features on the PS4 version will be very simple. I think both types of multiplats will appear.

True, it should be easier.

But devs are lazy and profit driven.

And maybe it will vary by platform. For series like CoD that have much larger communities on Xbox vs. PS the devs may simply not want to make the PS4 version look noticeably better and risk pissing off their larger community of fans on the MS platform.

Time will tell, and I'm sick of those kind of games and only getting a PS4 next gen so it's moot for me.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Ha ha. Well 80% of multi platform devs managed to ignore the additional power of PS3 the last time around.

I'm guessing because it required extra work with SPU's? This time they are both pretty much the same.

 

[USC-fan]

Anyone else looking for keynote.

http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/b/439369577


Starts about 15 mins in.

 

[Samyy]

If they are identical graphically then you should expect the FPS to be higher on the PS4. It does have a stronger GPU afterall.

Devs wont release games with different FPS on the different consoles, they'll bring them to parity even if it means holding back the PS4 version slighty

 

[raphanum]

one of the amazing things about carmack is that he was right in what he said at the beginning of that generation.

Look back at what he said in 2005 and look at what has happened. He was pretty much SPOT ON.

You trying to argue that one systems exclusive games is conclusively more technically brilliant than another consoles exclusives based on your eyes is subjective, just like how a console gamer can say "i like the artstyle better" when compared to a technically better PC game.

You can't compare the two.

Give it a rest.

Ha ha. Well 80% of multi platform devs managed to ignore the additional power of PS3 the last time around.

And, why do you think that is? As others have already pointed out it was related to the complexity of harnessing said power from the PS3. Next-gen is incomparable to current gen in terms of architecture disparity.

 

[beast786]

Ha ha. Well 80% of multi platform devs managed to ignore the additional power of PS3 the last time around.

Why do you think that was the case. why do you think those 80% of the case 360 was the lead dev platform ?

 

[GamerTime]

Wait what?

Its the 360 and PS3 that are vastly different architectures.

Not the One and PS4.

The power difference between the PS3/360 is considered a lot closer than the PS4/XBO

The difficult PS3 architecture is what caused it to not surpass the 360 in most multiplatform games. That will not be the case this gen with the far more simple, and more powerful PS4.

 

[cleveridea]

Zero button mouse with high latency

Awesome quote

 

[cyberheater]

If they are identical graphically then you should expect the FPS to be higher on the PS4. It does have a stronger GPU afterall.

Having a stronger GPU on paper does not necessarily mean that the real time performance will be that better. It really depends on how well you can feed the GPU with the right data and at the right time. It's all about GPU utilisation. I think the eSRAM in Xbox One will play a big hand in this.

 

[FairXchange]

Devs wont release games with different FPS on the different consoles, they'll bring them to parity even if it means holding back the PS4 version slighty

You know this wasn't this case this generation? So why would it be this way next generation?

 

[Mental Atrophy]

Why do you think that was the case. why do you think those 80% of the case 360 was the lead dev platform ?

Microsoft has vast experience when it comes to toolchain support.

 

[N2NOther]

I don't know why everybody is do adamant about wanting the PS4 to be more powerful than the Xbox One. Even if they do end up having similar graphical output, it's still going to be great for us gamers and a huge step up. And if PS4 games end up having better graphical output than Xbox One, then great for us PS4 owners.

Parity does nothing for the console warz.

 

[RoboPlato]

Having a stronger GPU on paper does not necessarily mean that the real time performance will be that better. It really depends on how well you can feed the GPU with the right data and at the right time. It's all about GPU utilisation. I think the eSRAM in Xbox One will play a big hand in this.

PS4's RAM is better designed for GPU utilization.

 

[Can Crusher]

Devs wont release games with different FPS on the different consoles, they'll bring them to parity even if it means holding back the PS4 version slighty

Tons of multi plat games this gen had frame rate differences, resolution differences, anti aliasing differences and even in detail of textures or shadows.

In every gen there are differences between multi plat versions.

 

[cyberheater]

Why do you think that was the case. why do you think those 80% of the case 360 was the lead dev platform ?

I'm not saying that. He said that more powerful hardware will show an improvement graphically for multiplatform games. I'm saying the reality is that it hasn't been so in the past for a variety of reasons.

I think that most multiplatform games on Xbox One and PS4 will look virtually identical for the same reasons.

 

[raphanum]

Having a stronger GPU on paper does not necessarily mean that the real time performance will be that better. It really depends on how well you can feed the GPU with the right data and at the right time. It's all about GPU utilisation. I think the eSRAM in Xbox One will play a big hand in this.

Are you a dev? Do you have access to both devkits? Please, enlighten me.

 

[cyberheater]

PS4's RAM is better designed for GPU utilization.

Have we got any data on the latency of the eSRAM chip relative to GDDR5 yet?

 

[cyberheater]

Are you a dev? Do you have access to both devkits? Please, enlighten me.

Notice the words "I think" in what I wrote. It's an opinion that I have.

 

[RoboPlato]

Have we got any data on the latency of the eSRAM chip relative to GDDR5 yet?

Latency has very little impact on graphics rendering. GPU utilization revolves around bandwidth. eSRAM almost definitely has the edge in latency but GDDR5 has a big advantage in bandwidth.

 

[GamerTime]

I'm saying the reality is that it hasn't been so in the past for a variety of reasons.

I think that most multiplatform games on Xbox One and PS4 will look virtually identical for the same reasons.

1. Digital foundry proves that not all multiplatform games run/look the same on 360/PS3

2. We haven't seen both versions of muultiplatform games for the XBO/PS4 to compare. Yet Sony is the only company to come out and specifically say that multiplaatform games are already looking better on the PS4

 

[x3sphere]

I don't think you know how devs work. They won't ignore additional power because they have to compete with other third party and first party titles. And using this power doesnt take much effort. They don't have to create new assets, they can just have better effects / resolution / framerate. And in some instances this can be achieved by simply flipping a switch in their development enviroments.

Honestly, hopefully they don't try to squeeze in better effects and whatnot at the cost of framerate. I would be totally fine if the PS4 version of multiplats look the same as X1 but with better performance.

 

[model13]

Sounds like most people won't see the difference in the graphics and if you are that decerning of a critic, why are you even playing on consoles instead of PC?

 

[beast786]

I'm not saying that. He said that more powerful hardware will show an improvement graphically for multiplatform games. I'm saying the reality is that it hasn't been so in the past for a variety of reasons.

I think that most multiplatform games on Xbox One and PS4 will look virtually identical for the same reasons.

Point is this time many of those reason don't exist. Because both have same architect and are pretty much linear scaled.

Regardless , proof will be in games

 

[GeneralGrey]

So long as the games look good and aren't just broken on one platform, I don't really care about the specs. It's not like we're talking about 360/PS3 vs. Wii here. If Carmack says they're both very close and very good, that's enough for me.

 

[Lynn616]

This is hard to answer because it depends on what the actual devs of a specific game want to focus on. If I were a dev, I would probably try to achieve parity regarding fps and resolution, but increase the quality of effects (AF/AA, shadows, lighting, explosions etc and things like TressFX etc.) as much as possible.

If that is the case then people should just buy the system that has the games and features they most want.

 

[beast786]

Sounds like most people won't see the difference in the graphics and if you are that decerning of a critic, why are you even playing on consoles instead of PC?

Because people like console exclusives ?

 

[Samyy]

You know this wasn't this case this generation? So why would it be this way next generation?

I didn't play anything that had significant issues - with PS3s strange architecture im not surprised there were some troubles with that. With both of the consoles being similar in that regard im willing to bet the differences will be minimal.

 

[captainraincoat]

Id trust carmacks word over any this guy knows his shit and another thing people still dont take into account is that we still dont have locked in specs for the xbone....everything is based off devkits/special sources...it could turn out to be a completely different gpu than what everyone is assuming. ..if that's the case the power difference will be null.

 

[raphanum]

Notice the words "I think" in what I wrote. It's an opinion that I have.

I love this thread. People won't hesitate to point out that the superiority of 360 multiplats, but when it comes to the possibility of multiplats being superior on the PS4, their conclusion is "it'll be identical."

Edit: since both consoles will be easier to develop for and easier to harness their respective capabilities, isn't it fair to assume that devs WILL take the time to make use of the PS4's additional power?

 

[rudieboy77]

I noticed he didn't say they were exactly the same.

 

[RoboPlato]

Id trust carmacks word over any this guy knows his shit and another thing people still dont take into account is that we still dont have locked in specs for the xbone....everything is based off devkits/special sources...it could turn out to be a completely different gpu than what everyone is assuming. ..if that's the case the power difference will be null.

It's far, far too late to swap out the GPU. Even in late 2012 they had to be locked in and they've released enough specs to extrapolate the architecture and validate the leaks.

 

[jaypah]

Honestly, hopefully they don't try to squeeze in better effects and whatnot at the cost of framerate. I would be totally fine if the PS4 version of multiplats look the same as X1 but with better performance.

This. If at all possible just let the games look identical if it means that the PS4 version is nice and smooth.

Sounds like most people won't see the difference in the graphics and if you are that decerning of a critic, why are you even playing on consoles instead of PC?

Because war. That shit never changes. Pick a side and fly your flag soldier!

I noticed he didn't say they were exactly the same.

Even better, he said close implying that one has to be better. Going off of everything that we know that's the PS4. But he didn't say "aww yeah, PS4 CURB STOMPIN' dat 180!" so, you know, let's freak out.

 

[cyberheater]

Latency has very little impact on graphics rendering. GPU utilization revolves around bandwidth. eSRAM almost definitely has the edge in latency but GDDR5 has a big advantage in bandwidth.

Given the recent information that the eSRAM can be written and read to at the same time, under the right circumstances. Bandwidth could be very high. And if latency is lower for eSRAM then there are circumstances where that might help to achieve a high utilisation of the Xbox One GPU.

 

[cyberheater]

1. Digital foundry proves that not all multiplatform games run/look the same on 360/PS3

2. We haven't seen both versions of muultiplatform games for the XBO/PS4 to compare. Yet Sony is the only company to come out and specifically say that multiplaatform games are already looking better on the PS4

Where did they say that?

 

[BadAss2961]

Id trust carmacks word over any this guy knows his shit and another thing people still dont take into account is that we still dont have locked in specs for the xbone....everything is based off devkits/special sources...it could turn out to be a completely different gpu than what everyone is assuming. ..if that's the case the power difference will be null.

There's probably a reason why Microsoft is ducking specifics. The most obvious one being that the specs just don't favor them at all. That's partly why we kept hearing so much about "The Cloud" before they dumped always online.

 

[RoboPlato]

Given the recent information that the eSRAM can be written and read to at the same time, under the right circumstances. Bandwidth could be very high. And if latency is lower for eSRAM then there are circumstances where that might help to achieve a high utilisation of the Xbox One GPU.

Don't get me wrong, both consoles seem well designed to fully utilize their GPUs but that just brings us around to the old numbers game.

I don't think there will be much of a difference in cross gen games, AKA most multiplats for the next year, but I think once next gen really kicks off there will be some differences. Nothing game breaking or horrible like some of the PS3 ports but I think PS4 will have distinct advantages.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

Are you a dev? Do you have access to both devkits? Please, enlighten me.

You do not need to be a dev to know the released specs are more powerful or weaker than the other.

 

[i-Lo]

Id trust carmacks word over any this guy knows his shit and another thing people still dont take into account is that we still dont have locked in specs for the xbone....everything is based off devkits/special sources...it could turn out to be a completely different gpu than what everyone is assuming. ..if that's the case the power difference will be null.

The thing about day dreams is that they are only limited by the imagination.

 

[jaypah]

There's probably a reason why Microsoft is ducking specifics. The most obvious one being that the specs just don't favor them at all. That's partly why we kept hearing so much about "The Cloud" before they dumped always online.

Ok, but can you conceive of a situation where the weaker console on paper is actually stronger? Me either. I have no idea what that was supposed to mean.

 

[cyberheater]

Don't get me wrong, both consoles seem well designed to fully utilize their GPUs but that just brings us around to the old numbers game.

I don't think there will be much of a difference in cross gen games, AKA most multiplats for the next year, but I think once next gen really kicks off there will be some differences. Nothing game breaking or horrible like some of the PS3 ports but I think PS4 will have distinct advantages.

I agree. I don't think the differences are going to be nearly as big as lot of gaffers think they will be. I think both systems will be quite close but the PS4 is clearly stronger.

We'll have to wait to see how that translates to real games.

 

[Freshmaker]

I just want to know which one will give me better grass in game A, and which will have missing reflections in game B.

It's more like a 3fps frame rate hit.

 

[captainraincoat]

It's far, far too late to swap out the GPU. Even in late 2012 they had to be locked in and they've released enough specs to extrapolate the architecture and validate the leaks.

The leaks are old and are still missing a fair amount of info.....I dont think we are going to know too much until the first teardowns start appearing.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Don't do this to yourself man. Just don't. There is no need to fight this battle. It's one you can't win.



Yes, just like every other developer who comments on this topic. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? A developer wants to sell their games on both consoles, so they're never going to outright declare one as much better than the other. They're gonna give nice compliments to both consoles as to not offend anyone interested in either console.

Even a Sony first party dev has said both systems will be pretty close. I'm sure there isn't some Xbox One title that he's worried about selling.

 

[GamerTime]

Where did they say that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mm3P4Ft-y4

Yeah, and I believe him. I also believe Mark Cerny when he says they built the most powerful console. People call Paper specs like it referred to the PS3, but the PS4 isn't designed anywhere near as difficult for developers to get into and utilize it's tech to get a sizable advantage.