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Top-level COD competitions look like what we expect

Errr anyone who's seen ice hockey players slug it out pointlessly can compare that to field hockey and see that different sports are different ... Sledging is acceptable is certain sports ... It's part of competiveness ... Especially if what people say where in cod positioning and team psyche is of more importance than cs . So maybe trash talking the other team does give you an advantage ... Fucking with the opponents head is a super effective strategy and totally valid .

Someone compared Starcraft to chess .... Err there is a reason chess is for chess enthusiasts ... Many of these rawer emotions make for more entertaining viewing ....

And comparing competitive gaming to a gaming enthusiast is just plain misguided ... It's like saying oh I love being fit and doing yoga and hiking vs I'm a professional football player . Totally different ... You aren't amped or competitive or anywhere near the skill level and emotions involved in tournament play during normal non competitive gaming .

Trash talking exists in competitive activities .... I personally don't but when I played cs tourneys I was the calmer player ... Helped me more in say clutch but there were more energetic players on the team who helped keep the team going ... One is not necessarily better than the other .
 
Apparently it was the end of the game, things got heated in a championship level match, and they all shook hands at the end. I've shit talked playing Beetle Adventure Racing before, not seeing the big deal here.
 
Can't get over that guy's suit, hilarious.

tumblr_mpydqjxjrX1qcexz7o1_400.gif
 
Errr anyone who's seen ice hockey players slug it out pointlessly can compare that to field hockey and see that different sports are different ... Sledging is acceptable is certain sports ... It's part of competiveness ... Especially if what people say where in cod positioning and team psyche is of more importance than cs . So maybe trash talking the other team does give you an advantage ... Fucking with the opponents head is a super effective strategy and totally valid .

Someone compared Starcraft to chess .... Err there is a reason chess is for chess enthusiasts ... Many of these rawer emotions make for more entertaining viewing ....

And comparing competitive gaming to a gaming enthusiast is just plain misguided ... It's like saying oh I love being fit and doing yoga and hiking vs I'm a professional football player . Totally different ... You aren't amped or competitive or anywhere near the skill level and emotions involved in tournament play during normal non competitive gaming .

Trash talking exists in competitive activities .... I personally don't but when I played cs tourneys I was the calmer player ... Helped me more in say clutch but there were more energetic players on the team who helped keep the team going ... One is not necessarily better than the other .

From TV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EfEgYgLNXw

I love the Oilers-Flames games :)
 
I'm out of words...

If someone would ask me what i don't like about videogames, i would show them this video... what bunch of little retards !

I would hire a couple of big scary dudes to put some discipline in this room ! God damn...
 
Uhh... you don't practice for competitive CoD in pubs just like you don't practice in a gungame server for CS. You join a competitive team of people equal to your skill and play with them. Also yes, CoD isn't a game for individual skill, you don't play it like that, that's how you lose. It's about positioning, psychology, and map awareness. This is a good video to see more how it's played and what goes into competitive CoD.

Also on another note for other comments, aim assist =/= auto aim. All aim assist does is when you're moving over someone it lowers your sensitivity to help you track them. Also while strafing it magnetizes to them very slightly.

I didn't say anything about playing pub games. I said someone who likes a game based around skill practicing to play COD competitively as a team would be mind numbing bordering on a chore. This was in specific response to the other poster asking why people who consider COD unskillful don't compete in it.

COD has both aim assist and auto aim.

That video pretty much supports my points, there is a degree of strategy and the most important factor is team cohesiveness which is very clear with the emphasis on outnumbering the opposition and very little mention of outskilling people with aim in encounters.

That basic level of strategy (I use that as a blanket term including positioning and decision making) is in pretty much any FPS game. FPS games that are generally considered skillful require a lot of individual skill as well strategy and teamwork if they are team based.

Quake Live for example in addition to the insane amount of skill in aiming and movement requires players to constantly time mega health and red armour (100 points each) and weapons to some degree, estimate your opponents health and armour based on the shots you land and your knowledge of the map, item timings and what you predict they have picked up, be aware of how vulnerable you are based on your health and armour. 2/3 of damage is applied to armour first then the following third to health. You have to do calculations on the fly to determine if you are at risk of being killed by one shot from certain weapons. Health and armour over 100 reduce back to 100 over time so you cannot get stacked and then camp, you have to continously move around the map and contest the items as they spawn.
 
I'm out of words...

If someone would ask me what i don't like about videogames, i would show them this video... what bunch of little retards !

I would hire a couple of big scary dudes to put some discipline in this room ! God damn...
Yeah, how dare they be so inconsiderate. They should be flogged.
 
I was about to say something nasty, but then I stopped and thought better of it.

If CoD fans understand that their game has a relatively low skill ceiling and why some people don't like it as a competitive game, non-fans should be able to accept it for what it is and not unfairly judge its players and fans.
 
Let me clarify this for you. These people claim that anyone can win CoD. There are millions of people playing CoD. Therefore, logically, it would be very unlikely for any of them to win, as any of millions could win these tournaments. You are claiming that if anyone can win, they should compete as they are likely to win. Do you see the difficulty I have with your logic yet?

This has been the only thing I've been trying to figure out. I don't care who you were phrasing what to. It doesn't matter if you are talking to one person or many. My confusion is with the thoughts as you process them not your difficulties in communication.

my comment towards him was..."sounds like an excuse." meaning that i felt his claim was invalid...i then went on to reference the rest of the people in the thread claiming the game was "easy" and how they should then go and make themselves some easy money...

you're not following my logic because youre failing to comprehend what im actually saying because youre trying to put words in my mouth...

These are my views on the subject of competing in COD.

The skill ceiling of aiming and movement in COD is extremely low. So that leaves strategy/decision making and teamwork. Strategy is influenced by the individual skill required to play the game, the complexity of the game and map design. COD has very little complexity and the map design is catered toward casual xbox live play rather than competition. So lets say the skills required are some strategy and teamwork with teamwork being the most important by a significant margin.

So for anyone who values individual skill and mental prowess in a game practicing for competitive COD would be like torture. A game where your individual skill doesn't matter and all that matters is the continual grind in a mind numbing game designed for casual play to perfect your teamwork so that its just slightly better than the other teams. Hours and hours of practice devoid of excitement, learning, improving skills, clutch individual plays or impossible feats of skill.

That is why people who like games such as Quake, Counter Strike, Starcraft, Dota etc have no desire to compete in COD, whatever the potential reward.

again, all this says to me is "I know i'd never be able to beat them, CoD is not quite the style of game i like, im stuck on 90's FPS design so im not that good at CoD so ill just hate, hate, hate and try to sound objective when im really not."

I have watched some competitive COD. I'm not an absolute expert on CS, my FPS of choice is Quake Live but I will give you my views on the differences. The biggest difference between COD and Counter Strike is aim. Aiming in Counter Srike is almost an art, aiming in COD is almost "the game does it for you" (on console) and is still far easier on PC.
frankly i will never understand how pointing and clicking with a mouse can be "art"

some things i just want to point out...if i don't address one of your bullet points its because i agree with it...

Counter Strike:
No aim assist / auto aim
Small hitboxes (effective size of target)
Recoil
Quick strafing
No sprint - speed depends on relative weight of weapon in hands
Movement and position i.e. standing or crouched, still or strafing affect accuracy.
Different weapons have meaningfully different characteristics
Recoil is of a consistent pattern so it is controllable if you learn the pattern, each gun has different patterns
Meaningful headshot bonus i.e. if perfectly accurate 1-2 bullets depending on weapon will usually kill
No aim down sights
Spraying is not effective
KB and mouse allows for extremely fast aiming/looking therefore making camping far less effective
Out shooting opponents is very possible in CS and unless someone is equal skill or close you will most likely kill them even if they get the first shot

- Who cares if i can sprint? sprinting is realistic, and it completely puts the player doing it at a disadvantage...as for speed...certainly changes in CoD based on the weapon youre carrying...
- why would i want a military shooter that doesnt allow me to ADS??...thats just dumb and screams of nostalgic BS tied to old (lack of?) animations from an outdated game engine...
- spraying isn't "effective" in CoD all that much either, but if bullet trajectory/hit detection/etc is properly modeled in the game then I would expect a bullet to do its duty (kill someone) wether its properly aimed or im spraying and praying...a bullet is a bullet, and if i hit my opponent idc how i fired it...
-funny you talk about how KB/M allow for this "extremely fast aiming" but you cant ADS...which i think is complete BS...you want me to believe that its a "good" thing that i can fire from the hip with pinpoint accuracy and lighting quick movements??...nah, again antiquated and unrealistic game mechanics IMO....
-the "out shooting" thing is something that angers me to no end in games and the absolute reason i solely play "hardcore" matches in CoD...if i get the drop on an opponent line him/her up and start firing...there is NO WAY they should survive and be able to kill me..thank God for hardcore...couple of bullets and you're dead...

COD:
Aim assist - lots of aim assist
Big hitboxes (effective size of target)
No meaningful recoil
Spraying is the only way to go
Aim down sights improves accuracy and slows movement - this results in high auto aim slow movement encounters which is the antithesis of skill
Shoot first kill first is common for anyone who is not a complete newbie

-"Spraying is the way to go" Maybe this is why you're not a competitive CoD player...you're playing it all wrong...
- ADS SHOULD improve accuracy and slow movement...thats just plain realism...
- so taking advantage of the feature of a weapon (its sights for christ's sake) is the "antithesis of skill" smh...
- THANK THE LORD for hardcore matches...if my first shot is accurate it damn well better kill you....my skill (ie: strategy, movement, etc) allowed me to be in a position to kill you...assuming i get a good shot off i better get the kill...

I don't think the gametypes are overly relevant if the base gameplay is not skilfull.

The maps in CS are designed for competition and are clean and uncluttered. The maps in COD are designed for casual play and are cluttered with all sorts of stuff which makes camping for cheap kills easier. The flow of the maps, choke points, alternative routes etc are designed with competition in mind in CS, not so in COD. COD is aimed at people who want a pick up and play rewarding game therefore it needs to be easy and provide the player with regular rewards (easy kills, killstreaks, exp progression etc). Its very hard to make a game like that into a competitive game.

again, i challenge any who find CoD to be so easy to actually do it and be good at it...prove it to me...sit yourself down and dominate some tournament and ill shut up and stop calling you out on it...

i know you wont...and youll use some elitist excuse about the gaming being beneath you...but we both know its because deep down you know you wont be as good as these guys...

I'll stick to BF. Also I hope there is a mute all function in next gen games for PS4.
riiiiiight, because BF players are just so much higher on the evolutionary scale....none of them would ever behave this way...



whats really funny in all this is that there are things i absolutely DESPISE about CoD...and i think its an incredibly flawed game...and im almost kicking myself for actually sitting here and defending it the way i am...i just cant stand ignorance in most cases...especially elitist/egocentric notions (that often come from PC gamers i might add that increasingly tend to think of themselves as a higher class of gamer for some reason)
 
...

Quake Live for example in addition to the insane amount of skill in aiming and movement...

What, quake harder than CoD?

and this is how you trash talk
again, i challenge any who find CoD to be so easy to actually do it and be good at it...prove it to me...sit yourself down and dominate some tournament and ill shut up and stop calling you out on it...

i know you wont...and youll use some elitist excuse about the gaming being beneath you...but we both know its because deep down you know you wont be as good as these guys...

The problem is that I could win against the best console player in the world using a controller with aim-assist easily in csgo if i had KBM. I don't want to play with a controller, or watch anyone play with a controller for that matter, for the same reasons as I prefer normal basketball to wheelchair basketball.
 
The problem is that I could win against the best console player in the world using a controller with aim-assist easily in csgo if i had KBM. I don't want to play with a controller, or watch anyone play with a controller for that matter, for the same reasons as I prefer normal basketball to wheelchair basketball.

im not denying that KB/M players would win...but thats not going to be an option...its controller vs controller...the playing field is level...ive been told in this very thread that playing a FPS with a controller is akin to simply pulling the trigger a few times and bam! you've won...so certainly for the uber elite, massively skilled players in this thread picking up such a newbie device like a controller and dominating the world should be a cake walk...

for the record i think playing with a KB/M is completely unnatural for me and im shit at it because its just something that has never really interested me...
 
Welp, douchebag fest. COD was always kind of a guilty pleasure for me, but majority of the time I split the audio and mute voice chat so I don't have to hear any of that nonsense.
 
I didn't remember the thread and read "top-level COO competition" so I imagined suits trash talking each other.
(fun fact: a coworker actually plays COD with 2 of our board members, so it's not that far-fetched)
 
The problem is that I could win against the best console player in the world using a controller with aim-assist easily in csgo if i had KBM. I don't want to play with a controller, or watch anyone play with a controller for that matter, for the same reasons as I prefer normal basketball to wheelchair basketball.

lol & bravo
 
im not denying that KB/M players would win...but thats not going to be an option...its controller vs controller...the playing field is level...ive been told in this very thread that playing a FPS with a controller is akin to simply pulling the trigger a few times and bam! you've won...so certainly for the uber elite, massively skilled players in this thread picking up such a newbie device like a controller and dominating the world should be a cake walk...

for the record i think playing with a KB/M is completely unnatural for me and im shit at it because its just something that has never really interested me...

I enjoy CoD a lot and would say I'm pretty decent. At the same time I'll be the first to say its not on the same skill level as the old greats. Same as I love playing LoL, but I enjoy playing and watching competitive Dota 2.
 
umm, yeah...not a good argument against video games causing violence.
Did someone get attacked, I didn't finish the video?

Just because they're shouting and grunting like a bunch of gorillas doesn't mean they're gonna start hitting people. Plus, I see this type of behavior at sporting events all the time. Both on and off the fields. All. The. Time.
 
Wow... those 2 videos on page 15....
Are they trying to mimic wrestling? They're shouting and doing all these things without understanding why.

It's like a toddler who sees behavior from others, doesn't understand it but tries to mimic it anyways.


Cod really is the saddest fucking thing.
Also the idea of playing a tournament of a shooter on controllers and calling it esports is ridiculous.

After watching TI3 it's like stepping through a portal straight into the movie idiocracy.
 
again, all this says to me is "I know i'd never be able to beat them, CoD is not quite the style of game i like, im stuck on 90's FPS design so im not that good at CoD so ill just hate, hate, hate and try to sound objective when im really not."

frankly i will never understand how pointing and clicking with a mouse can be "art"

some things i just want to point out...if i don't address one of your bullet points its because i agree with it...



- Who cares if i can sprint? sprinting is realistic, and it completely puts the player doing it at a disadvantage...as for speed...certainly changes in CoD based on the weapon youre carrying...
- why would i want a military shooter that doesnt allow me to ADS??...thats just dumb and screams of nostalgic BS tied to old (lack of?) animations from an outdated game engine...
- spraying isn't "effective" in CoD all that much either, but if bullet trajectory/hit detection/etc is properly modeled in the game then I would expect a bullet to do its duty (kill someone) wether its properly aimed or im spraying and praying...a bullet is a bullet, and if i hit my opponent idc how i fired it...
-funny you talk about how KB/M allow for this "extremely fast aiming" but you cant ADS...which i think is complete BS...you want me to believe that its a "good" thing that i can fire from the hip with pinpoint accuracy and lighting quick movements??...nah, again antiquated and unrealistic game mechanics IMO....
-the "out shooting" thing is something that angers me to no end in games and the absolute reason i solely play "hardcore" matches in CoD...if i get the drop on an opponent line him/her up and start firing...there is NO WAY they should survive and be able to kill me..thank God for hardcore...couple of bullets and you're dead...



-"Spraying is the way to go" Maybe this is why you're not a competitive CoD player...you're playing it all wrong...
- ADS SHOULD improve accuracy and slow movement...thats just plain realism...
- so taking advantage of the feature of a weapon (its sights for christ's sake) is the "antithesis of skill" smh...
- THANK THE LORD for hardcore matches...if my first shot is accurate it damn well better kill you....my skill (ie: strategy, movement, etc) allowed me to be in a position to kill you...assuming i get a good shot off i better get the kill...



again, i challenge any who find CoD to be so easy to actually do it and be good at it...prove it to me...sit yourself down and dominate some tournament and ill shut up and stop calling you out on it...

i know you wont...and youll use some elitist excuse about the gaming being beneath you...but we both know its because deep down you know you wont be as good as these guys...

riiiiiight, because BF players are just so much higher on the evolutionary scale....none of them would ever behave this way...



whats really funny in all this is that there are things i absolutely DESPISE about CoD...and i think its an incredibly flawed game...and im almost kicking myself for actually sitting here and defending it the way i am...i just cant stand ignorance in most cases...especially elitist/egocentric notions (that often come from PC gamers i might add that increasingly tend to think of themselves as a higher class of gamer for some reason)

Realism does not equal skill.

COD is far from realistic, so defending certain mechanics because they are sort of realistic is a non-argument.

Pretty much all the mechanics you are defending make the game less skillful. Aim down sights makes the game less skillful as to be the most accurate you have to move slower, therefore most encounters occur with:

Pinpoint accuracy without recoil

Slow movement

No need for headshots

How can you consider that more skillful than "shooting from the hip" in CS? Where there is aggressive but controllabe recoil, a big bonus for headshots and much faster movement speed?

Either a game has CS style mechanics with recoil and extreme precision required or it has no recoil and high precision plus leading of shots and extremely fast movement speed like Quake. It needs to lean in one of the directions to be highly skillful.

COD is slower than both, less complex strategically and aiming is far easier.

Your argument about playing COD is like suggesting chess players play draughts/checkers.
 
When I think of "gamers" this is what I see in my head. I hate the term and I'm embarrassed to be called one cause of crap like this. Obviously gamers come in many varieties but man could these guys just show a little more respect to each other?
 

No offense, as I played a shitload of Quake back in the day.. but watching that is like watching paint dry. I know there's skill involved, but a lot of it is just knowing the maps very well and knowing the spawn routines and anticipating movement.

What I don't get is the CoD haters who give the game shit for being "easy-mode" when it's really just made to have fun with.. you know.. a game.

If you can't enjoy popping in and playing a few matches for fun, then just ignore it.
 
No offense, as I played a shitload of Quake back in the day.. but watching that is like watching paint dry. I know there's skill involved, but a lot of it is just knowing the maps very well and knowing the spawn routines and anticipating movement.

What I don't get is the CoD haters who give the game shit for being "easy-mode" when it's really just made to have fun with.. you know.. a game.

If you can't enjoy popping in and playing a few matches for fun, then just ignore it.

No it's fine. While game like League of Legends might not compare to the difficulty of Dota 2 or COD may not compare to the difficulty of Counter-Strike, they are all serious games that take skill. Were not talking about the Candy Crunch playoffs here.

But the fact is games with a higher skill ceiling are better games for competition. The higher the skill ceiling the more pronounced the skill of pro level players is. Just the changes made between CS1.6 to Source alone show just how much a lowered skill ceiling will affect better players. Before the changes a very skilled player playing on a pub could easily go 80-10. Those same players will go about 40-10 in CS:Source. Lowering the skill ceiling makes a difference.
 
I agree. Is there on GAF someone that plays like this? I'm scared...

Love MPing, but I'm pretty bad at them, so if the players' skills are unmatched I rage quit leaving a gross message at the chat, no moms involved.

Also: multiplayer is like driving on autobahn, everyone you pass suck and the ones speeding through you are mad men.
 
my comment towards him was..."sounds like an excuse." meaning that i felt his claim was invalid...i then went on to reference the rest of the people in the thread claiming the game was "easy" and how they should then go and make themselves some easy money...

you're not following my logic because youre failing to comprehend what im actually saying because youre trying to put words in my mouth...



again, all this says to me is "I know i'd never be able to beat them, CoD is not quite the style of game i like, im stuck on 90's FPS design so im not that good at CoD so ill just hate, hate, hate and try to sound objective when im really not."

frankly i will never understand how pointing and clicking with a mouse can be "art"

some things i just want to point out...if i don't address one of your bullet points its because i agree with it...



- Who cares if i can sprint? sprinting is realistic, and it completely puts the player doing it at a disadvantage...as for speed...certainly changes in CoD based on the weapon youre carrying...
- why would i want a military shooter that doesnt allow me to ADS??...thats just dumb and screams of nostalgic BS tied to old (lack of?) animations from an outdated game engine...
- spraying isn't "effective" in CoD all that much either, but if bullet trajectory/hit detection/etc is properly modeled in the game then I would expect a bullet to do its duty (kill someone) wether its properly aimed or im spraying and praying...a bullet is a bullet, and if i hit my opponent idc how i fired it...
-funny you talk about how KB/M allow for this "extremely fast aiming" but you cant ADS...which i think is complete BS...you want me to believe that its a "good" thing that i can fire from the hip with pinpoint accuracy and lighting quick movements??...nah, again antiquated and unrealistic game mechanics IMO....
-the "out shooting" thing is something that angers me to no end in games and the absolute reason i solely play "hardcore" matches in CoD...if i get the drop on an opponent line him/her up and start firing...there is NO WAY they should survive and be able to kill me..thank God for hardcore...couple of bullets and you're dead...



-"Spraying is the way to go" Maybe this is why you're not a competitive CoD player...you're playing it all wrong...
- ADS SHOULD improve accuracy and slow movement...thats just plain realism...
- so taking advantage of the feature of a weapon (its sights for christ's sake) is the "antithesis of skill" smh...
- THANK THE LORD for hardcore matches...if my first shot is accurate it damn well better kill you....my skill (ie: strategy, movement, etc) allowed me to be in a position to kill you...assuming i get a good shot off i better get the kill...



again, i challenge any who find CoD to be so easy to actually do it and be good at it...prove it to me...sit yourself down and dominate some tournament and ill shut up and stop calling you out on it...

i know you wont...and youll use some elitist excuse about the gaming being beneath you...but we both know its because deep down you know you wont be as good as these guys...

riiiiiight, because BF players are just so much higher on the evolutionary scale....none of them would ever behave this way...



whats really funny in all this is that there are things i absolutely DESPISE about CoD...and i think its an incredibly flawed game...and im almost kicking myself for actually sitting here and defending it the way i am...i just cant stand ignorance in most cases...especially elitist/egocentric notions (that often come from PC gamers i might add that increasingly tend to think of themselves as a higher class of gamer for some reason)

this post is weird, you replied to every point but you didn't counter a single thing

yes COD is fun, we know that, it's just not designed for competition (as it's primary focus). And also, like any game, it takes a great deal of time investment to be the best, what others are saying is that you hit that skill ceiling sooner than in other games.
 
and people wonder why eSports will never gain popularity at this rate...dear lord. This is unreal. Let's stop using the excuse that gaming is a young industry. eSports is though. Not to mention all the cheating and scandals we've had over the years. Truth be told and this is just my opinion so think of it as you will. The Fighting Game Community at EVO is the one we should be promoting to the public.
 
Not defending these guys but do any of you play sports at a high level? This is no worse than what I hear during my hockey games.

The narrator got it right at the end.


EDIT: Also perhaps if this is an issue then jeering the other team should be banned?
 
im not denying that KB/M players would win...but thats not going to be an option...its controller vs controller...the playing field is level...ive been told in this very thread that playing a FPS with a controller is akin to simply pulling the trigger a few times and bam! you've won...so certainly for the uber elite, massively skilled players in this thread picking up such a newbie device like a controller and dominating the world should be a cake walk...

for the record i think playing with a KB/M is completely unnatural for me and im shit at it because its just something that has never really interested me...

You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
impressive in terms of their mastery of a game? absolutely...but to watch? boring as all hell

Maybe in the format of commenting over an older game like this video is doing, or if one doesn't really understand what's happening, but the game itself is still fun to spectate live at that level. When it comes competition, I've always preferred the 1v1 format - Starcraft, Quake, etc.. Seems more 'pure'.
 
What's up with the guy trying to justify it as "amazing?" Fighting game players are infamous for talking shit and even defend it as their "culture," but they don't hop around and swear at each other on stage. Enthusiasm isn't automatically a good thing.
 
i can appreciate some good shit talk in sports and in games but these idiots are just screaming sweet nothings at each other

if i did this when i was a kid my dad might kick my ass
 
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