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[Lowlander2]

I'm surprised she left it this late, to be honest. A lot of fringe critics are starting to think about leaving the industry too.

 

[GrizzNKev]

As I edited into my last post, it did start because of the writing, but morphed into a very personal hate campaign that stuck with Hepler in a way it didn't for any of the other writers in question.



Well, /v/ does that too because /v/ is a total cesspool. I should know because I posted there for years and watched it slowly descend into anarchy.

K so we agree. And 4chan has never changed, just your viewpoint as you age.

 

[-COOLIO-]

That's the internet for you or 4chan specially.

the thread title alone shows that gaf does its part too. it's no 4 chan, but gaf does its part.

the 'phil fish effect' has a nice ring to it. i say we coin it as the term to describe internet dog-piling that results in talent leaving the games industry.

 

[michaelius]

Part of me is sad because people use death threats over trivial things like video games.

Part of me feels it's sad that she wasn't sent in mobile/social games EA department by managment after the trainwreck of DA2.

And for people who defend her work

never forget

 

[AppleMIX]

Yeah, no. That's not even close to being true.

And the fact that anybody gave a shit that a writer doesn't like gameplay is just further proof of that. She had nothing to do with the gameplay aspects of the game, she was a fucking writer.



The fact that it's even easy/possible to attack somebody for being fat, gay or a woman should tell you there's a problem. And /v/ are sexist all the time, what are you even talking about?

They only solution to this problem is censorship which is far worse than the insults.

 

[grandjedi6]

And the internet chases another lady out of the industry. Good job idiots

 

[Omega]

Part of me is sad because people use death threats over trivial things like video games.

Part of me feels it's sad that she wasn't sent in mobile/social games EA department by managment after the trainwreck of DA2.

And for people who defend her work



never forget

lmao

but seriously, who doesn't want to be a dragon?

 

[Krabboss]

They only solution to this problem is censorship which is far worse than the insults.

Nope, moderation/gated communities pretty much always make the internet better. When something gets big enough and it's just a sea of adolescent rage and cluelessness, it's pretty much garbage. It's why the only reason you'd read 4chan is if you hate yourself or you've not grown out of it yet.

 

[Aaron]

And the internet chases another lady out of the industry. Good job idiots

Internet will chase anyone out of the industry if they have the chance. BLOPS2 devs got death threats over a patch with minor weapon modifications. This is the result when people not only can say anything, but rarely face the consequences of what they say.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Saying that people should be able to skip gameplay did piss a lot of people off, and that's not the kind of thing Waters or anyone else I can think of has said. Not defending the specifics of the response, but I can still see why people responded to her far more negatively than Waters.

You know, I don't understand the outrage over that statement. Why are people mad that she suggested that people should be able (hint: it's totally optional) to skip gameplay portion? Nowadays storytelling in games is as important as gameplay (it seems sometimes it's even more important), so why not allow people to enjoy the story while skipping parts they do not enjoy?

What's funny, BioWare did a lite version of what she suggested in ME3 where you can choose between "Story Mode" (all action sequences are automatically dumbed down), "Action Mode" (dialouges are automatically chosen for you) and "RPG Mode" (you do everything). And that thing didn't affect me because those other modes were completely optional.

 

[Omega]

And the internet chases another lady out of the industry. Good job idiots

not that I'm supporting the way she left, but who cares if she's a female? I guess since she's a female there's no standards she has to be held to

And the internet white knights another female in the industry.
Good job fellas

 

[-COOLIO-]

They only solution to this problem is censorship which is far worse than the insults.

but you're posting on gaf, a forum that thrives due to tight moderation.

 

[Data West]

Graphic threats

Well I hope you're happy, Dennis.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

First Fish, now Hepler.

If you can't take the heat...

 

[Krabboss]

but who cares if she's a female?

Probably all the people who have constantly harassed her since the release of DA2, if I had to guess.

Even that Blops 2 dev who got harassed on twitter mostly received threats targeted at his wife and daughter (who cares if they're female??) and that harassment pretty much went away after a day. Jennifer Hepler was in the spotlight for a long, long time.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

not that I'm supporting the way she left, but who cares if she's a female? I guess since she's a female there's no standards she has to be held to

And the internet white knights another female in the industry.
Good job fellas

It's called being a decent person. The video game industry seems to be the only one with absolute mindless hatred towards women. The publishers are scared of putting strong women in their games because they think the COD fags will run away or burn down their house or something. Th industry may not but the gamers definitely treat women like 2nd or even 3rd class. It's not White Knighting, it's being supportive of equality.

 

[-COOLIO-]

First Fish, now Hepler.

If you can't take the heat...

im not sure anyone can take 1.6 quadrillion tons of hate, which is what you will get if you're a target. almost everyone has a breaking point.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

It's called being a decent person. The video game industry seems to be the only one with absolute mindless hatred towards women. The publishers are scared of putting strong women in their games because they think the COD fags will run away or burn down their house or something. Th industry may not but the gamers definitely treat women like 2nd or even 3rd class. It's not White Knighting, it's being supportive of equality.

tell me more

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Part of me is sad because people use death threats over trivial things like video games.

Part of me feels it's sad that she wasn't sent in mobile/social games EA department by managment after the trainwreck of DA2.

And for people who defend her work



never forget

What's hilarious is that you think you're any better than this:

"I was shown a sample of the forum posts by EA security and it included graphic threats to kill my children on their way out of school to show them that they should have been aborted at birth rather than have to have me as a mother."

Seriously, half of the posts in this thread are "it's sad this happened BUT".

 

[AppleMIX]

but you're posting on gaf, a forum that thrives due to tight moderation.

I am also not a content creator. You run a fine line when banning trolls and suppressing criticism.

 

[Aaron]

I am also not a content creator. You run a fine line when banning trolls and suppressing criticism.

No you don't. Threatening someone's safety or family isn't criticism. It's harassment. We have detailed laws that define these sort of things.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

tell me more

Sorry I meant the gentlemen who play COD.

 

[Mistouze]

Get the cops at these fuckers doorsteps.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

im not sure anyone can take 1.6 quadrillion tons of hate, which is what you will get if you're a target. almost everyone has a breaking point.

And yet hundreds if not thousands of people in the game industry manage every day.

 

[AppleMIX]

No you don't. Threatening someone's safety or family isn't criticism. It's harassment. We have detailed laws that define these sort of things.

Threatening family/her is obviously wrong however valid criticism can often be accompanied with harmful language.

 

[Cade]

This thread has some terrible doses of either irony or ignorance, and either way it's sad. No matter if someone writes a game's story that turns every character into a simpering moron or homicidal maniac and culminates in everyone dying terrible deaths, it should never lead to personal threats.

EDIT: Hoo boy. This thread's gonna be a graveyard, I'm ducking out.

 

[grandjedi6]

not that I'm supporting the way she left, but who cares if she's a female? I guess since she's a female there's no standards she has to be held to

And the internet white knights another female in the industry.
Good job fellas

Because I'm not naive and I know how the internet works and how females are singled out for harsher treatment by the internet mob gang? Or how there are very few females in the industry anyway and once any of them standout the internet immediately finds a reason to go after them and "put them in their place". Or how defending those being attacked, or even, shock, pointing out the issue immediately results in people calling out "white knighting" as if that meant anything?

But yeah, what do I know?

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Get the cops at these fuckers doorsteps.

There was a similar case where a popular Youtube workout advisor type person, closed his channel and LEFT HIS STATE when he received multiple death threats towards his family from the little angels at 4chan. Why don't the police ever get involved?
I believe there has even been a case where they found a guy's house and physically assaulted him.

I was a regular on the Mass Effect boards but never saw something this extreme.

 

[-COOLIO-]

And yet hundreds if not thousands of people in the game industry manage every day.

what? no they dont. unless everyone in the games industry is getting a crap ton of death threats for some reason.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

You run a fine line when banning trolls and suppressing criticism.

It's easy to distinguish between criticism and insults/threats, don't you think?

Insult and threat: "You're fucking stupid and you should die!"
Criticism: "I think your story is bad, because THIS and THAT". Hell, even "Your story is fucking stupid!" can be considered as a criticism and yet it still doesn't insult the person who wrote it.

 

[Aaron]

Threatening family/her is obviously wrong however valid criticism can often be accompanied with harmful language.

That's why harassment laws are detailed, and why moderation on decent message boards exist.

 

[KissVibes]

First Fish, now Hepler.

If you can't take the heat...

Or how about: If you can't be respectful and judge works based on it's merits alone, shut the fuck up.

The fact that some of us are so quick to say "If you can't handle it too bad for you" instead of "Maybe we should provide criticism of the work and leave the writers family and personal life out of it" is both hilarious and sad at the same time. There are a lot of reasons Dragon Age II isn't a well-written game in my opinion. Could she improve her work based on HELPFUL criticism? Absolutely. Now, we'll never see that happen because people take fucking video games so goddamn personally and attack personal lives.

Video gamers as a whole are so incredibly juvenile. It's sad that so many of those that act this way are adults who should know better too.

And yet hundreds if not thousands of people in the game industry manage every day.

Victim blaming. Fantastic.

 

[Squire]

I figured it was Hepler. Around the time DA2 was releasing she made some comments that she didn't care about gameplay and wished she could just skip through it altogether to get to the narrative.

I'm sure she's gotten shit for far more than that, just remembering the game DA2 turned out to be, but that always struck me as a foot-in-mouth moment, valid perspective or not.

Anyway, I feel for her. Gaming community is toxic and BioWare probably sees some of the worst of it. You look at their forums and it's right under their nose. And these are the people they make games for? Pfft.

I don't blame her.

 

[Valnen]

They all belong in prison.

 

[AppleMIX]

That's why harassment laws are detailed, and why moderation on decent message boards exist.

It's easy to distinguish between criticism and insults/threats, don't you think?

Yes but take for example the whole Phil Fish nonsense debate.

Marcus Beer was right in calling out Phil Fish but he used it as a excuse to close down his twitter and cancel FEZ 2.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Victim blaming. Fantastic.

She was asking for it. She shouldn't have dressed like a slut. Should have stayed in the Kitchen. Very common in ANY thread involving women.

The video games are fine. The customers need to grow up and soon.

 

[Fornaximus]

Because I'm not naive and I know how the internet works and how females are singled out for harsher treatment by the internet mob gang? Or how there are very few females in the industry anyway and once any of them standout the internet immediately finds a reason to go after them and "put them in their place". Or how defending those being attacked, or even, shock, pointing out the issue immediately results in people calling out "white knighting" as if that meant anything?

But yeah, what do I know?

Tell that to Casey Hudson and Mac Walters, or to Amy Hennig. Two royally trashed males from BioWare, and a female praised for creating Uncharted. Gender has nothing to do with it beyond lazy insults. If you do bad work, you're gonna hear about it. If you do good work, you'll be recognized for it. It is my understanding that a) Hepler is a bad writer, and b) dislikes video games.

As someone else already said...

People attack what ever is easiest to attack.

If you're fat, they call you a fatass.
If you're gay, they call you a faggot.
If you're a women, they call you bitch.

If /v/ really hated women why wouldn't they call out other women writers in the game industry?

 

[HocusPocus]

I feel really bad for this woman and her family. I thought Dragon Age 2 was ok, but it tried to do something different that just never clicked with me. However, the game wasn't horrible by any stretch. This is why it's still hard to tell people that I'm into this hobby. I mean look how childish this board can be at times and then you read stories like this. It's a hobby that I feel like I have to hide from half the people I know. I'm not a teenager.

 

[Bundy]

What about these assholish thread titles lately?
Just post standard titles and don't try so hard to be "funny" and "cool".

 

[kurahador]

What about these assholish thread titles lately?
Just post standard titles and don't try so hard to be "funny" and "cool".

Video game journalist wannabe.

 

[BlazinAm]

Part of me is sad because people use death threats over trivial things like video games.

Part of me feels it's sad that she wasn't sent in mobile/social games EA department by managment after the trainwreck of DA2.

And for people who defend her work



never forget

More doesn't make it better, also you have to take into account animation and voice work for every line of dialogue.

 

[phosphor112]

Really gotta call her a horrible writer in a thread about people threatening her family?

What the heck is with this title? I hope this is taken down seriously. Mainly why are you also attacking her? Seems pretty weird to make a thread about how people are horrible and then call her a horrible writer.

But she is a horrible writer. It doesn't mean she and her family deserve death threats.

Is it wrong for someone to have an opinion on someone and their work while pointing out the wrong things that have been done to this person?

 

[-COOLIO-]

Or how about: If you can't be respectful and judge works based on it's merits alone, shut the fuck up.

The fact that some of us are so quick to say "If you can't handle it too bad for you" instead of "Maybe we should provide criticism of the work and leave the writers family and personal life out of it" is both hilarious and sad at the same time.

There are a lot of reasons Dragon Age II isn't a well-written game in my opinion. Could she improve her work based on HELPFUL criticism? Absolutely. Now, we'll never see that happen because people take fucking video games so goddamn personally.

Well said, and the ultimate irony is that the very same people chanting, "If you can't handle it too bad for you" couldn't handle it themselves. Some people on this forum will get passionately defensive over a 6.5 for dragons crown, or an 8.8 for twilight princess, yet i'm suppose to believe that gaf is full of hard-asses who could handle the heat if they were in fish's/helper's place?

my ASS.

 

[A Serious Man]

Gaming has shitty fans.

So do musicians and artists.

And sports teams.

And political parties.

And religions.

The world is full of stupid, vile people and they are not exclusive to the gaming community. They're pretty much everywhere.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

It is my understanding that a) Hepler is a bad writer, and b) dislikes video games.

I will never understand why do people cling so much to that. She's a writer, her job is to write story and dialogs, not design gameplay. She can hate video games for all I care because she is responsible for the non-interactive (or the least interactive) part of the game.

 

[Crash Station]

But she is a horrible writer. It doesn't mean she and her family deserve death threats.

Is it wrong for someone to have an opinion on someone and their work while pointing out the wrong things that have been done to this person?

I believe it's wrong to mention the quality of someone's work in a fictional medium when the topic at hand is a threat on said person's life. It would be the same if we were talking about Uwe Boll or whoever.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yes but take for example the whole Phil Fish nonsense debate.

Marcus Beer was right in calling out Phil Fish but he used it as a excuse to close down his twitter and cancel FEZ 2.

Wow, you're trying so very hard not to say shit that will most likely get you banned, aren't you?

 

[rmanthorp]

This thread is quite ironic

Yup.

 

[grandjedi6]

Tell that to Casey Hudson and Mac Walters, or to Amy Hennig. Two royally trashed males from BioWare, and a female praised for creating Uncharted. Gender has nothing to do with it beyond lazy insults. If you do bad work, you're gonna hear about it. If you do good work, you'll be recognized for it. It is my understanding that a) Hepler is a bad writer, and b) dislikes video games.

As someone else already said...

Naming two men who've got attacked by the internet and 1 woman who hasn't (yet), doesn't negate my point or eliminate the overall mistreatment of women by the internet.

 

[phosphor112]

I believe it's wrong to mention the quality of someone's work in a fictional medium when the topic at hand is a threat on said person's life.

I don't know all the details, but from what I understand her writing and her lack of caring for videogames themselves is why she got the hate.