Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS Thread 2: Where Pilotwings is apparently Minecraft

Other M has the most bland locations in the Metroid series, so of course we get a stage from there, i'm sad now.

As for F-Zero, I still want that bar from the cutscene of GX's chapter 3, Bar room brawl with F-Zero characters in the background? yes please.
Alongside a more standard F-Zero Track of course.
 
Other M - worst Metroid, but still gets its own stage. :P

If you want Ridley so much, hack it when it releases and code in your own Ridley.
 
I seriously believe that, with that stage reveal, we're going to see Ridley this week, either if it's as a stage hazard (yes) or as a character (no).
 
What is going on with the blue things a bit under the edges of the stage? Maybe it's just the angle he gave but it looks like those could really fuck with your recovery.

Also, yes, I agree. Please have stage hazard Other M Ridley tomorrow just for the reactions. Then we can move on to hoping Dark Samus is in the game.
 
As for F-Zero, I still want that bar from the cutscene of GX's chapter 3, Bar room brawl with F-Zero characters in the background? yes please.
Alongside a more standard F-Zero Track of course.

I actually wanted the one from where you have to catch Michael Chain.

Dat Bridge.
 
Nobody's surprised about anything regarding this update. Just impressed at how the stage itself looks while disappointed Ridley's inevitably going to be non-playable again.

People up there were making light of an Other M location and seemed disappointed.

Maybe not surprised but bummed out.

Sakurai goes with his gut or whatever and wings it, which I love.

I mean Wii Fit Trainer...

You have to respect the dude, Microsoft would take polls on which character people want in the game every other week.
 
Well, that same arena from Pyrosphere is in Dead or Alive for the 3DS with Ridley as a stage-hazard. At the same time Samus also cameos in that stage in a non-playable role, so I dunno maybe that isn't really a deciding factor. I still think he'd be more subtle like he was with Luigi if he was gearing up towards a character reveal, and I'd prefer to be conservative and be pleasantly surprised if Ridley is playable than get my hopes up and have them dashed when he's only in the background.
 
i'm just disappointed nintendo didn't lock up all the OM stuff and never mentions it again.

What's sad is that the Prime trilogy which is almost universally acclaimed only managed to get one stage (Frigate Orpheon) and one boss (Meta-Ridley) in Brawl. So far from what we've seen of the next Smash Bros. though, Other M representation seems to be everywhere from Samus' (ZSS too probably) main design to the first stage revealed. (and I bet Ridley will be in it as his Other M appearance)

Is there some stigma in Japan against the Prime series, or do they not consider them real Metroid games? I can't fathom for how beloved those games are they get only a small amount of representation (Brawl still seemed rife with Super Metroid references, also ZSS seems to be a Zero Mission throwback) while Other M which was universally hated by the gaming community is rife with references in Smash 4.
 
What's sad is that the Prime trilogy which is almost universally acclaimed only managed to get one stage (Frigate Orpheon) and one boss (Meta-Ridley) in Brawl. So far from what we've seen of the next Smash Bros. though, Other M representation seems to be everywhere from Samus' (ZSS too probably) main design to the first stage revealed. (and I bet Ridley will be in it as his Other M appearance)

Is there some stigma in Japan against the Prime series, or do they not consider them real Metroid games? I can't fathom for how beloved those games are they get only a small amount of representation (Brawl still seemed rife with Super Metroid references, also ZSS seems to be a Zero Mission throwback) while Other M which was universally hated by the gaming community is rife with references in Smash 4.
I was going to point out Retro being way over in Austin makes things complicated in terms of asset sharing, but then at the same time there's been a ton of DKCR stuff in Mario sports/party games since then and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of DK material in SSB4 will be Returns/Tropical Freeze related.

Sometimes Smash just ignores certain core series; Wario Land got completely snubbed in Brawl, the Mario RPG's barely ever get acknowledged, Mario Galaxy was never mentioned in Brawl either, while Frigate aside Metroid is all about the LAVA in Smash Bros. usually... Stuff just happens the way it does sometimes.
 
I was going to point out Retro being way over in Austin makes things complicated in terms of asset sharing, but then at the same time there's been a ton of DKCR stuff in Mario sports/party games since then and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of DK material in SSB4 will be Returns/Tropical Freeze related.

The Returns stage where you hide behind the rocks to avoid the crashing waves could make for an interesting battle arena.
 
A Fusion stage for Smash 3DS would be pretty cool, especially if they had SA-X patrolling the stage and attacking players. (though distinguishing it from Samus might be difficult)
 
What's sad is that the Prime trilogy which is almost universally acclaimed only managed to get one stage (Frigate Orpheon) and one boss (Meta-Ridley) in Brawl. So far from what we've seen of the next Smash Bros. though, Other M representation seems to be everywhere from Samus' (ZSS too probably) main design to the first stage revealed. (and I bet Ridley will be in it as his Other M appearance)

Is there some stigma in Japan against the Prime series, or do they not consider them real Metroid games? I can't fathom for how beloved those games are they get only a small amount of representation (Brawl still seemed rife with Super Metroid references, also ZSS seems to be a Zero Mission throwback) while Other M which was universally hated by the gaming community is rife with references in Smash 4.

Other M only has one stage so far, I'm not seeing how it is "favored" compared to prime, most of the Metroid trophies in Brawl were about Metroid Prime games, also since Metroid generally gets two stages I wouldn't be surprised if the second one was from Prime 3.

A redesign + A stage is not rife with references.

Plus the stage looks great, it's a nice set piece, it's not really what was wrong with Other M.
 
I knew it. I'm willing to bet my other prediction (rising and falling lava) is true as well.

Concerning Prime representation, Brawl had two Metroid stages, there very well could be a Metroid Prime stage. And Metroid Prime was pretty well represented in Brawl, this sounds like revisionist history.
 
I could be proven wrong as we see more from Smash Wii U (3DS version will probably have handheld Metroid stuff) so it was probably premature for me to say that. Just expressing my disappointment that Other M is being headlined in Smash 4 (similar to say Skyward Sword for Zelda) yet Prime never got such treatment. Yes there was a stage, but it felt like it was sharing representation with Super Metroid half and half in Brawl. (and that's ignoring that Prime 2 and Prime 3 didn't even seem to be acknowledged outside of trophies/stickers)
 
I am shocked that Sakurai even picked that stage. It's only famous for the wrong reasons. lol

It's pretty much "Hey guys remember that scene from Other M that everyone hates? We made the stage based on it!"

But I won't complain if the stage itself turns out good. It does look interesting itself I admit... but kind of worried it'll be another rising lava stage, I feel that's overplayed at this point.

It's also hated for the wrong reasons. The game could have clarified Samus' backstory better with a cutscene showing why she had PTSD, but her having PTSD doesn't weaken her character. It's not like she was consciously afraid, she was having an invasive flashback like a Vietnam War vet freaking out in a supermarket at a loud noise. It's just the way they chose to show this, for once NOT overexplaining things with minutes long exposition, was by showing Samus as the 3 year old she was when the traumatic event occured which was easily misinterpreted as Samus just being scared like a little girl.

The fight that took place after she snapped out of her flashback was pretty badass.
 
It's also hated for the wrong reasons. The game could have clarified Samus' backstory better with a cutscene showing why she had PTSD, but her having PTSD doesn't weaken her character. It's not like she was consciously afraid, she was having an invasive flashback like a Vietnam War vet freaking out in a supermarket at a loud noise. It's just the way they chose to show this, for once NOT overexplaining things with minutes long exposition, was by showing Samus as the 3 year old she was when the traumatic event occured which was easily misinterpreted as Samus just being scared like a little girl.

The fight that took place after she snapped out of her flashback was pretty badass.

One of her comrades also almost got killed while she was having a mental breakdown. She has fought Ridley more than enough times by then that if she was going to have a freakout it should have happened within the first few fights with him that she ever had, at this juncture though it just looks out of place for a character that is supposed to be a veteran at this stuff now. If Other M was an origin story there would be a lot less complaining about it, but it's laughable when it happens to be the second to last game (before Fusion) chronologically in the Metroid series.
 
It's also hated for the wrong reasons. The game could have clarified Samus' backstory better with a cutscene showing why she had PTSD, but her having PTSD doesn't weaken her character. It's not like she was consciously afraid, she was having an invasive flashback like a Vietnam War vet freaking out in a supermarket at a loud noise. It's just the way they chose to show this, for once NOT overexplaining things with minutes long exposition, was by showing Samus as the 3 year old she was when the traumatic event occured which was easily misinterpreted as Samus just being scared like a little girl.
It should have also included a running subtitle underneath the cutscene to ask the player to please ignore the events of Metroid, Metroid 2 (keep forgetting he's not in this one!), Super Metroid and even the ending of the original manga fans kept falling back on to justify Other M's 'unique' narrative because they all directly contradict what's happening on screen.
 
i think the baby ridley (hate that lol wtf thing) will be what Sakurai is talking about and dat Ridley will be playable D:

it is time.


i'd rather have the guy with "remember me" be playable. Anthony i think was his name.
 
One of her comrades also almost got killed while she was having a mental breakdown. She has fought Ridley more than enough times by then that if she was going to have a freakout it should have happened within the first few fights with him that she ever had, at this juncture though it just looks out of place for a character that is supposed to be a veteran at this stuff now. If Other M was an origin story there would be a lot less complaining about it, but it's laughable when it happens to be the second to last game (before Fusion) chronologically in the Metroid series.

Ridley's design in OM was so bad that it caused Samus to have an attack. It's the only logical conclusion.
 
Stage looks nice, notably because it looks nothing like it did in its source material. It's still utterly disappointing that Other M continues to be pulled from, though... I fail to see why it's acceptable to pull from Other M when the Smash series has never pulled from comparable games, like the Zelda CDI ones.

It's also hated for the wrong reasons. The game could have clarified Samus' backstory better with a cutscene showing why she had PTSD, but her having PTSD doesn't weaken her character. It's not like she was consciously afraid, she was having an invasive flashback like a Vietnam War vet freaking out in a supermarket at a loud noise. It's just the way they chose to show this, for once NOT overexplaining things with minutes long exposition, was by showing Samus as the 3 year old she was when the traumatic event occured which was easily misinterpreted as Samus just being scared like a little girl.

The fight that took place after she snapped out of her flashback was pretty badass.

Problem is, the game never once even begins to suggest that Samus has PTSD. The scene is not about Samus having PTSD, as if it was the game would suggest it somewhere. Instead, it's about systematically weakening her character, the apparent purpose of that entire awful game.

I'd advise giving this document a read, but be warned that it's a tad blunt and long.
 
It's pretty much "Hey guys remember that scene from Other M that everyone hates? We made the stage based on it!"

Does someone know here if Other M was hated in Japan as much as here? I remember reading in a Metroid fansite that Other M's storytelling was kinda japanese oriented, so maybe they liked it more than the west do and that's why they are not ignoring it like most here want them to do
 
One of her comrades also almost got killed while she was having a mental breakdown. She has fought Ridley more than enough times by then that if she was going to have a freakout it should have happened within the first few fights with him that she ever had, at this juncture though it just looks out of place for a character that is supposed to be a veteran at this stuff now. If Other M was an origin story there would be a lot less complaining about it, but it's laughable when it happens to be the second to last game (before Fusion) chronologically in the Metroid series.

Yes, the game could have set things up better. Samus fought Ridley either twice or 3 times before Other M. The Manga, Metroid/Zero Mission, and Super Metroid. The canonicity of the manga is questionable, but clearly from Other M Sakurai intends for Ridley killing her parents at age 3 to be canon. Samus made it clear in the intro to Other M that she thought Ridley was dead for good this time, since this time she blew up the entire planet he was on. People with PTSD don't get to choose when they have their flashbacks. If they get caught offguard it can happen.
 
Just really great watching all the Ridley business. Just really great drama. Been following this nonsense for years.

It's never going to happen. I love it.

Welcome back, Stage-Hazard Duckface Ridley. The people clamored and Sakurai has spoken. There ain't no party like a Sakurai party.
 
Stage looks nice, notably because it looks nothing like it did in its source material. It's still utterly disappointing that Other M continues to be pulled from, though... I fail to see why it's acceptable to pull from Other M when the Smash series has never pulled from comparable games, like the Zelda CDI ones.

We know Other M killed your dog and many others' but that comparison is absurd.
 
Yes, the game could have set things up better. Samus fought Ridley either twice or 3 times before Other M. The Manga, Metroid/Zero Mission, and Super Metroid. The canonicity of the manga is questionable, but clearly from Other M Sakurai intends for Ridley killing her parents at age 3 to be canon. Samus made it clear in the intro to Other M that she thought Ridley was dead for good this time, since this time she blew up the entire planet he was on. People with PTSD don't get to choose when they have their flashbacks. If they get caught offguard it can happen.

OK let's pretend the Prime series never happened, even then Samus encountered Ridley:

1: As a child
2: In the manga
3: In the original Metroid
4: Mecha Ridley in Zero Mission
5: Ridley at the beginning of Super
6: Fighting Ridley in Norfair in Super


That's still a hell of a lot of encounters with him.
 
We know Other M killed your dog and many others' but that comparison is absurd.

Well, to be fair, the Zelda CDI games don't systematically go out of their way to contradict every other game in their respective series, and could probably even be taken as canon without tarnishing the characters involved too much, since they could have a different Zelda and Link.

Other M, on the other hand, if accepted as canon, leaves gaping plot holes throughout the entire series when compared to it, tarnishes the important characteristics of every character involved, and, worst of all, has defenders. Also it's blatantly misogynistic as hell, which is something even the terribad CDI games can't say for themselves.

Also my dog is fine, thank you very much. I know better than to keep her away from awful excuses for storytelling.
 
Todays picture

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Out of the blue, here's a new stage--the Pyrosphere from Metroid: Other M! An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any second…

At this rate, whatever the message is talking about is probably going to turn out to be a stage hazard. Either that or Crocomire as a playable character.
 
At this rate, whatever the message is talking about is probably going to turn out to be a stage hazard. Either that or Crocomire as a playable character.
I'd assume it will work like the DoA stage and Ridley will swoop in and attack people at random.
 
I just like how the new stage looks. Why do we have to argue the source material so much?

Seriously, this. And what's more, how can anyone feign surprise that the Metroid stage is Other M-based? Brawl had Orpheon which was Prime-based, so how could anyone expect SSB4 to have anything besides an Other M stage?

Also, we'll have at least one more Metroid stage. I think we can all calm down. Plus, yes, it looks great. Lighting is so much more dramatic than we're used to seeing in these games.
 
It still amazes me that people are willing to defend the story of all fucking things out of Other M.

People will defend absolutely anything, no matter how bad it is.

All I know is, if I have to pretend that either A),the Metroid prime trilogy doesn't exist or B) Metroid Other M doesn't exist in order to reconcile the plot of the overall Metroid universe, throwing Other M away will be one of the easiest choices I have ever made.
 
It should have also included a running subtitle underneath the cutscene to ask the player to please ignore the events of Metroid, Metroid 2, Super Metroid and even the ending of the original manga fans kept falling back on to justify Other M's 'unique' narrative because they all directly contradict what's happening on screen.
I'm not a fan of Other M. I just think people misinterpret certain elements of the plot and blow them way out of proportion. The plot is more mediocre and poorly written than terrible.

People with PTSD don't have flashbacks every time or all the time. You could have an episode over something that happened decades ago if you get triggered. Metroid 2 doesn't even have Ridley in it, and just because Samus overcomes her PTSD episode in the manga doesn't make her cured. In the manga she thought Ridley was dead because he got blown up by her dad and she didn't know he could regenerate, so in Metroid and Super Metroid she should have expected that he wasn't permanently dead. In Other M she states that she thinks she will never see him again. They could have fixed things easily by having her say she dropped her mental guard after the cutscene.

Problem is, the game never once even begins to suggest that Samus has PTSD. The scene is not about Samus having PTSD, as if it was the game would suggest it somewhere. Instead, it's about systematically weakening her character, the apparent purpose of that entire awful game.

I'd advise giving this document a read, but be warned that it's a tad blunt and long.

The game suggests that Samus has PTSD with the cutscene that we are discussing. Like I said, they should have shown the flashback she was having to clear up confusion, or maybe included a flashback about it elsewhere in the game. But she's clearly having a PTSD episode in that scene; She loses touch with reality and remembers herself as a 3 year old getting attacked by Ridley, basically reliving the traumatic event. It doesn't weaken her character because it exists outside of her character that she can't fully control and only applies to Ridley. If it was normal fear I'd agree. She snaps out of it and gives Ridley one hell of an ass kicking.

OK let's pretend the Prime series never happened, even then Samus encountered Ridley:

1: As a child
2: In the manga
3: In the original Metroid
4: Mecha Ridley in Zero Mission
5: Ridley at the beginning of Super
6: Fighting Ridley in Norfair in Super


That's still a hell of a lot of encounters with him.
1: That's the traumatic event that she relived.
2: She thought he was dead. Freaks the fuck out. Wants to die.
3: She expected him to still be alive.
4: Not really Ridley... some weird robot that looks like him for some reason.
5: She probably expected him to still be alive, but he is supposed to kick her ass in this fight.
6: She definitely expected him in this fight. Kicked his ass.

It's not like you're going to have a flashback every time and you can condition yourself. But even then people have relapses. Samus had a relapse.
 
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