Support NeoGAF

[z0m3le]

I have not found any report that TSMC have done manufacturing this year for Nintendo. The articles I've read say that the Renesas factory closure should not affect Nintendo for another 2-3 years. After that, a complete redesign may be necessary, as it is unclear if Renesas would allow TSMC to touch their proprietary eDRAM tech. So either they do and sell them the actual machines (in which case nothing will change) or they don't, in which case there will be a more drastic change than just smaller shader blocks.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=74674055#post74674055
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74676967&postcount=146
http://n4g.com/news/1325891/nintendo-to-use-tsmc-to-produce-edram-parts-going-forward (said back in april)

Actually not sure how you missed that, it was reported in the thread made by smokydave and there is dozens of links if you search for "Nintendo to use tsmc" Nintendo announced that from "now" on TSMC will be making the eDRAM (as well as the GPU since it all shares the same die)

 

[phosphor112]

Great work. Did you have a disc in the drive at all? From what I've read, the drive seems to be active as long as any disc is in there. But it only accounts for an increase of ~1.6w.



Indeed, seems to me he was averaging one USB device plugged in when making that statement. But it was vague...

That was fixed.

 

[z0m3le]

That's the first time I have ever read anyone say that tbh but I respect your opinion. Also remember you are comparing them to a $500 GPU and probably what ? another $500 worth of PC hardware ontop of it, they were never going to compete, esp PS4 at $400.

I agree completely about your assessment of WiiU though, that's exactly what I think it is, last gen ++ meaning native 720p / no tearing / more stable framerates / slightly better textures and really, really nice looking Nintendo games in motion which is great !.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127737 GPUs have come down quite a bit, the GPU I'm talking about can be found for ~200 USD, also the other components of a PC can easily be found for $200-300, even if you were to get an 8 core AMD CPU (that would blow away the PS4's) you are talking about $150 such as this CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103961 DDR3 ram is fairly cheap, but chances are... most PC gamers can simply upgrade their GPU, and lets not forget the paywall for these consoles is $50+ a year, over 6 years is $300 by itself. When you take those things into account and look at AMD's never settle bundles, giving you 3+ games along with that GPU, you'd have to say it is a pretty compelling deal.

 

[Can Crusher]

I'm still not seeing "any" of the specific things I addressed in the screenshots you posted. Not a single one. They aren't even wearing shirts in the Tekken shot. The closest you caim to it is the one with the pants leg shot, but its still a mile off. His sleeves and collar are still drawn on his body and the textures do not remotely look like really cloth. They aren't even high res. The pants legs aren't loose either. Their motion is stiff and baked in that game. Its no where near close. I do no know what you are trying to dismiss with those screen.

Do you even understand what it is that you are talking about? You seem to be under this illusion that Link is wearing actual clothes, 3D modeled separately and then put on the character model with physics supporting it.

I'm the one who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about. It almost sounds like you are imagining things in your head. The clothing texturing in the DOA5 shot absolutely looks like cloth, and current gen games have "cloth physics" too.

Either way I was talking about the complexity of the character models. Apparently you are looking at a Smash Link character model from another dimension and therefore I don't quite understand what you are talking about.

I don't care what "impresses" you as I doubt you would find anything released on Nintendo hardware impressive. Please take the console war stuff elsewhere. Too many people come in here for no other reason than to find angles to downplay the proposed gains demonstrated by the hardware and not actually help the analysis. My goal is to help determine the capability of the GPU, not to see which system/game is you find impressive.

You started the conversation, I wasn't the one who started talking about what Smash was or wasn't doing in comparison to current gen. If you can't handle a conversation without acting like a child then don't start none.

I'm talking about specific details. I've yet to see anyone provide anything to the contrary of what I said. If you have some photos of character models on the 360/PS3 demonstrating the exact traits I pointed out on the same scale then that would be a different story.

The problem is that nobody is seeing what you are seeing. Which should be a reality check for you.

 

[Forsaken82]

Eh, looks on par with DOA5 for example.

Super Smash Bros. doesn't really look good. The character models are OK, the rest is mostly bad.

I see what he is referring to (the fact that the hat, sleeves, collar and waist of the tunic has cloth physics or atleast some additional animations) that being said, that is all it is... Cloth physics. The model is modeled with the hat, the sleeves on top of the chainmail is deliberate, same with the waist

I feel like you are assuming that the tunic and hat are modeled seperately, but that isn't the case (there is just enough underneath the sleeves modeled to give you the effect and either physics or additional animations for movement are added to the cloth, and that is a testament to Nintendo's attention to detail) and this is done in plenty of games (just look at most fighting games this gen, mortal kombat is a good example, loin clothes, capes, ribbons, should pads etc) Hell, breast physics is basically the same thing and DOA has been doing that for a long fucking time.

if You want a better example than ribbons and loin cloths and capes, take a look at this video of Uncharted 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yp5DxegZl7M#t=317

Im having issues getting the current time to copy over, but just jump to 5:15

watch the way the bottom of the Suit Jacket flairs out during the fight. its exactly what you are referring to with the Tunic.

 

[USC-fan]

You guys are wasting your time with that guy.

Didn't Nintendo themselves say that the TDP of the Wii U was 75 watts? With games running at 32 Watts at peak, it makes me wonder if they are preparing for an overclock with the next "speed" update allowing more power to also be drawn to accommodate the newer overclocked speeds.

Nope that is the power supply. Power consumption in line with a 75watt psu. Never don't want push it much pass 50% of rating.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

That is interesting. I have question petaining this but I will take that to the CPU thread. I don't want get to far off the topic of the GPU in here.

Another thing I would like to bring up a in relation to the how the Wii U graphics stand versus last gen that I haven't seen come up yet are the paints on Mario in Brawl and the cloths/hair on Link.
I've seen nothing like this in last gen games. Link's shirt neck, hit tunic collar, tunics tail, his sleeve(self shadowing )his pants legs, boot openings, his belt. They are all indvidually rendered to make them pronounced. They are not simply textured on as what was done with most last gen games.

This looks like a substantial leap in power for the GPU to me. That seems like a lot of polygons to spare. These models look more detailed than the ones in NG3 Razor's Edge and they had 60k polygon counts.

This is the first time I noticed that Link wear's earrings.

Might tessellation be used in these rendering techniques?

Details such as buckles (let alone entire items of clothing) being modelled with geometry instead of just textures/normals isn't unheard of. Even a game like Skyrim, which generally has lower asset detail due to the number of objects on screen, has a few examples of this. Also, the self shadowing you're describing is often drawn on/baked into the diffuse texture.

 

[Forsaken82]

You guys are wasting your time with that guy.

I am at home... I have time to waste...

 

[Triton55]

I watched the Smash Bros. trailer on my HDTV.

The game looks good as fuck in motion.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I am at home... I have time to waste...

I don't know why this made me laugh lol.

I see what he is referring to (the fact that the hat, sleeves, collar and waist of the tunic has cloth physics or atleast some additional animations) that being said, that is all it is... Cloth physics. The model is modeled with the hat, the sleeves on top of the chainmail is deliberate, same with the waist

I feel like you are assuming that the tunic and hat are modeled seperately, but that isn't the case (there is just enough underneath the sleeves modeled to give you the effect and either physics or additional animations for movement are added to the cloth, and that is a testament to Nintendo's attention to detail) and this is done in plenty of games (just look at most fighting games this gen, mortal kombat is a good example, loin clothes, capes, ribbons, should pads etc) Hell, breast physics is basically the same thing and DOA has been doing that for a long fucking time.

if You want a better example than ribbons and loin cloths and capes, take a look at this video of Uncharted 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yp5DxegZl7M#t=317

Im having issues getting the current time to copy over, but just jump to 5:15

watch the way the bottom of the Suit Jacket flairs out during the fight. its exactly what you are referring to with the Tunic.

Man, that video looked pretty sweet.

 

[KidBeta]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127737 GPUs have come down quite a bit, the GPU I'm talking about can be found for ~200 USD, also the other components of a PC can easily be found for $200-300, even if you were to get an 8 core AMD CPU (that would blow away the PS4's) you are talking about $150 such as this CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103961 DDR3 ram is fairly cheap, but chances are... most PC gamers can simply upgrade their GPU, and lets not forget the paywall for these consoles is $50+ a year, over 6 years is $300 by itself. When you take those things into account and look at AMD's never settle bundles, giving you 3+ games along with that GPU, you'd have to say it is a pretty compelling deal.

To be a actual 'pc' imo you need more then a CPU and a GPU with some ram, the minimum you should be looking at to match a console is.

GPU
CPU
PSU
Motherboard
HDD
Case
RAM
blu-ray drive

Go find all that for less then $400 that matches the PS4, if you can, ill be impressed.

 

[fred]

60fps footage of Sonic Lost World. Looks bloomin gorgeous. Can't remember hearing anything about the native resolution but it looks great, even from off screen footage.

I think we're going to get a little more of an idea of what the box can do nearer to Christmas and next year. Watch Dogs in particular is going to be very interesting to see.

 

[Smurfman256]

60fps footage of Sonic Lost World. Looks bloomin gorgeous. Can't remember hearing anything about the native resolution but it looks great, even from off screen footage.

I think we're going to get a little more of an idea of what the box can do nearer to Christmas and next year. Watch Dogs in particular is going to be very interesting to see.

Question: What Gen 7 sonic games ran at 60FPS? I know that the Hedgehog Engine-based games ran at 30; what of the others?

 

[Fourth Storm]

Not anymore since the last (or the one before, dunno) update.

Good to know. I do think I recall hearing that now. Thanks.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=74674055#post74674055
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74676967&postcount=146
http://n4g.com/news/1325891/nintendo-to-use-tsmc-to-produce-edram-parts-going-forward (said back in april)

Actually not sure how you missed that, it was reported in the thread made by smokydave and there is dozens of links if you search for "Nintendo to use tsmc" Nintendo announced that from "now" on TSMC will be making the eDRAM (as well as the GPU since it all shares the same die)

I didn't miss anything, because nowhere in the article does it say anything about the Wii U GPU. The websites running with that news seem to be sourcing back to a post made by wsippel. What happened is that Renesas tried to sell the Yamagata factory, where Wii U's eDRAM (possibly the whole LSI) is manufactured, but TSMC wouldn't bite. The factory is actually closing in major part due to low Wii U demand! Yes, Renesas have been outsourcing to TSMC, but not for this particular product. If it were, you'd think the Nintendo rep would have mentioned that the GPU was actually being produced at TSMC in the July articles when questioned, no?

So Nintendo still have some figuring out to do, but they have got 2-3 years until the day comes. Might be time to move on to their next console by then anyway.

 

[AzaK]

So Nintendo still have some figuring out to do, but they have got 2-3 years until the day comes. Might be time to move on to their next console by then anyway.

To be honest, based on what's happened with Wii U and Nintendo's choices, I probably won't care what they do next time. Wouldn't surprise me if lots of others feel the same way.

It's been thirty years and they are still smoking the same crack.

 

[Log4Girlz]

To be honest, based on what's happened with Wii U and Nintendo's choices, I probably won't care what they do next time. Wouldn't surprise me if lots of others feel the same way.

It's been thirty years and they are still smoking the same crack.

I'm still curious to what they do next time. Something tells me though that the Wii U is the final nail in the coffin. The next system may be still-born.

 

[tarheel91]

I'm still curious to what they do next time. Something tells me though that the Wii U is the final nail in the coffin. The next system may be still-born.

Let's ignore the fact that their previous console was their best selling of all time and they have tens of billions of cash in their war chest.

 

[pieatorium]

Let's ignore the fact that their previous console was their best selling of all time and they have tens of billions of cash in their war chest.

just like sony at the start of this gen

 

[AzaK]

I'm still curious to what they do next time. Something tells me though that the Wii U is the final nail in the coffin. The next system may be still-born.

I guess 'won't care' are pretty strong words. I will check-in to see where they go but I won't be investing much energy and money in them this gen it seems. I don't have faith they will remedy the third party situation on Wii U before I jump ship to the PS4 or XBO. Once I do it basically means I'm just buying the odd Nintendo game on the system (if I keep it at all) like I did with Wii and I don't think that investment was ultimately worth it.

'Never count them out' as they say but if Wii U hasn't caused them to revamp their strategy, approach and investment in the 'core' gamer I don't know if anything will. They are far too slow and fearful of moving with the industry trends.

 

[Fourth Storm]

To be honest, based on what's happened with Wii U and Nintendo's choices, I probably won't care what they do next time. Wouldn't surprise me if lots of others feel the same way.

It's been thirty years and they are still smoking the same crack.

Yeah, they certainly do need a shakeup if they want to turn things around. I'm still of the opinion that they should go with a super small/cheap box, make it compatible w/ their next handheld and really leverage virtual console - finally get their shit together on the account front. If they emphasize cross-platform play and offer a unique controller, they could get back some positive buzz.

There's probably no way for Nintendo to get the type of "core," "mature," games Sony and MS are getting, so I believe this is their best course of action. Wii U tries to be too many things to too many people and this is why it is failing.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

It never fails, this thread just never stay on topic, if its not pictures, its comments about sales. Or becomes a thread about PS4 being what 100% of us already know, but we get game pics anyway.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Let's ignore the fact that their previous console was their best selling of all time and they have tens of billions of cash in their war chest.

That's exactly what the public is doing.

 

[NBtoaster]

Question: What Gen 7 sonic games ran at 60FPS? I know that the Hedgehog Engine-based games ran at 30; what of the others?

Sonic06 and Unleashed tried for 60fps but were inconsistent. Generations was 30.

 

[Apophis2036]

I'm still curious to what they do next time. Something tells me though that the Wii U is the final nail in the coffin. The next system may be still-born.

Nintendo need to go big or go home with their next console. They do not have 'tens of billions of dollars', they have $5 billion in cash and I would guess it costs around $1 billion each time they refresh their hardware (R&D for both consoles, cost of production of launch consoles, launch game development and marketing).

The data experts in the sales threads will tell you that even if WiiU has one of the biggest turnarounds ever seen in this industry, it will still only reach Gamecube level sales at best, something I feel Nintendo and esp the shareholders will not be happy about.

They need to understand that the industry will not come to them, they have to go to the industry just like Sony did with PS4. If they take that approach while building a console with industry standard hardware they WILL receive third party ports.

They should build an x86, APU based console similar to XBO in specs and have it ready to go for November 2015. Bundle a standard controller with it and make the U tablet and Wii Motion plus optional control schemes (if they have a new controller idea, make it OPTIONAL). They should be able to build a console like that and sell it for profit at $249 by late 2015.

If people are faced with three consoles that are basically the same with regards to hardware and third party support I think it will surprise a lot of people how many consumers actually chose the Nintendo console for their exclusive IP's all the while still having access to the likes of BF, Dark Souls and GTA.

 

[lwilliams3]

In most cases? I compared it to All-stars once and only once along with a few other comparisons when the difference between ports that was topic being discussed.

Please, stop derailing the thread with by attacking nonexistent arguments.



I didn't say they were. That was there own conjuration. I said they were minute details that I never saw done in such a way in last gen games. Then they proceded with a chain of strawman arguments acting the background resolution and aspecst around the things I pointed out without ever actually addressing what I said but spoke like they were things I stated(which is what a strawman argument is).

Well, I do agree with the other's argument that we have seen such details in other current-gen games. However..

I see what he is referring to (the fact that the hat, sleeves, collar and waist of the tunic has cloth physics or atleast some additional animations) that being said, that is all it is... Cloth physics. The model is modeled with the hat, the sleeves on top of the chainmail is deliberate, same with the waist

I feel like you are assuming that the tunic and hat are modeled seperately, but that isn't the case (there is just enough underneath the sleeves modeled to give you the effect and either physics or additional animations for movement are added to the cloth, and that is a testament to Nintendo's attention to detail) and this is done in plenty of games (just look at most fighting games this gen, mortal kombat is a good example, loin clothes, capes, ribbons, should pads etc) Hell, breast physics is basically the same thing and DOA has been doing that for a long fucking time.

if You want a better example than ribbons and loin cloths and capes, take a look at this video of Uncharted 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yp5DxegZl7M#t=317

Im having issues getting the current time to copy over, but just jump to 5:15

watch the way the bottom of the Suit Jacket flairs out during the fight. its exactly what you are referring to with the Tunic.

I agree with you that it's a nice detail that the Smash Bros team added to Link's model, but I also think you are also undervaluing it a bit. This is a chaotic game that can go up to at least 4-players, and will likely have several items that can create alot of effects on-screen, runs at 60fps and maybe even 1080p. Considering that you will likely not see Link's model up-close during actual gameplay, I can see how some would consider clothes physics in a game like this to be a nice surprise. In contrast, that Uncharted 3 video had alot of heavily scripted parts and had some budget on making the scene very cinematic.

I'm unsure if we can use this to determine the Wii U's power compared to the current-gen systems, though. Different fighting games have different priorities. The Smash Bros teams, for example, decided not to focus on high-quality background environments like some other fighting games have.

Sonic06 and Unleashed tried for 60fps but were inconsistent. Generations was 30.

I read that Colors also ran at 30fps.

 

[Apophis2036]

It never fails, this thread just never stay on topic, if its not pictures, its comments about sales. Or becomes a thread about PS4 being what 100% of us already know, but we get game pics anyway.

What do you want people to talk about ?, the die has been analysed several times for 6+ months, the GPU looks to be 176GFLOPs.

Some of us still like to talk about what the GPU might be capable of, what it won't be capable of, what Nintendo should do next hardware wise ect, if that doesn't interest you then... well don't read the thread if it upsets you.

There has been nothing new info wise with regards to the GPU for months...

 

[TheD]

Wow

Nasty low poly stage, nasty grass, low res textures, low poly boots. There are current gen games that look quite a bit nicer as have been posted above. Some effects are nicer, but that doesn't make up for all the low poly, low detail areas in the image. Wow, I mean wow.

Yep, that is not a good looking scene at all.

And nothing about the character models looks to be special in any way.

 

[joesiv]

Considering that you will likely not see Link's model up-close during actual gameplay, I can see how some would consider clothes physics in a game like this to be a nice surprise.

I highly doubt links clothes are a physics simulation, you can have waving clothes and have it manually animates or precalculated. Besides some capes in some games, most clothes and hair is canned. Given how basic most other models are, I doubt Nintendo would so disproportionately push the link model with things like realtime physics simulations.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

What do you want people to talk about ?, the die has been analysed several times for 6+ months, the GPU looks to be 176GFLOPs.

Some of us still like to talk about what the GPU might be capable of, what it won't be capable of, what Nintendo should do next hardware wise ect, if that doesn't interest you then... well don't read the thread if it upsets you.

There has been nothing new info wise with regards to the GPU for months...

Console sales shouldn't be discussed, there's no point in bringing in PS4.

 

[Hermii]

Im pretty sure Sakurai made it clear at E3 that these visuals are in no way final.

 

[JordanN]

I highly doubt links clothes are a physics simulation, you can have waving clothes and have it manually animates or precalculated. Besides some capes in some games, most clothes and hair is canned. Given how basic most other models are, I doubt Nintendo would so disproportionately push the link model with things like realtime physics simulations.

There's a screenshot of the animal crossing kid's shirt clipping through his shorts. So if there was physics, why wouldn't they have invested in collision detection for that?

 

[Log4Girlz]

There's a screenshot of the animal crossing kid's shirt clipping through his shorts. So if there was physics, why wouldn't they have invested in collision detection for that?

Jordan, using your experience, how many polys do you think that SSB Link scene consists of?

 

[JordanN]

Jordan, using your experience, how many polys do you think that SSB Link scene consists of?

500 million. Probably double if you include the gamepad.

 

[TheD]

500 million. Probably double if you include the gamepad.

Sure you don't mean 500 thousand?

 

[JordanN]

Sure you don't mean 500 thousand?

....

Spoiler

I thought the "gamepad" comment was a clear give away I was joking

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

500 million. Probably double if you include the gamepad.

Jordan gained 45 exp. points

 

[Log4Girlz]

500 million. Probably double if you include the gamepad.

You've got to be joking.

 

[T0wRen]

You guys are wasting your time with that guy.



Nope that is the power supply. Power consumption in line with a 75watt psu. Never don't want push it much pass 50% of rating.

Just re-checked the September 2012 Nintendo Direct unveiling of Wii U tech specs and Iwata specifically says that the Wii U can draw UP TO 75 watts with it generally consuming 45 watts (35W for system and 10W for USB ports). Why would he mention this if the 75 watts only applied to the spec of the AC adapter itself and not the console?

 

[freezamite]

just like sony at the start of this gen

No, Sony at the start of this gen was a Console company with nearly all the other sections having loses.
Two years ago, it was an Insurance company with all the other sections having loses.

After the restructuring of the company, other sections have become profitable, but not the videogames one (and this is why some shareholders wanted to close that section). Sony lost nearly as much money during the PS3 generation, than he earned during the PS + PS2 ones, and yet there is nobody here suspicious of them quitting the business.

In fact, the whole videogames section has been restructured also, because the philosophies also changed. While Sony always wanted personalized hardware for their consoles, both Vita and PS4 are of-the-shelf parts with 0 customizations on them. Hell, next year we will see the PS4 APU (maybe cut in half) being sold on tons of mobile PCs, and the PSVita is just a generic mobile phone with more cores for the CPU and a modern Mobile GPU, and all that is made in order to cut expenses and save money.

 

[jeffers]

Just re-checked the September 2012 Nintendo Direct unveiling of Wii U tech specs and Iwata specifically says that the Wii U can draw UP TO 75 watts with it generally consuming 45 watts (35W for system and 10W for USB ports). Why would he mention this if the 75 watts only applied to the spec of the AC adapter itself and not the console?

might be for people wondering what the cost of running is (speculating on the fact that they love low power draw as a feature/design requirement)

 

[The_Lump]

If a power supply says it can output 70w isn't that what it can output? I always thought the "efficiency" part applies to how much power it requires (input) to output that 70w. In this case, say it draws 100w to output that maximum 70w, making it 70% efficient. The other 30% is lost as heat etc. Afaik, the power adaptor has to display the exact power it can output.

That's how PC PSUs work anyhow. You buy an 80% rated 700w PSU, it outputs 700w. Not 80% of 700w. Probably draws ~900w from the wall.

And even if WiiUs psu is only drawing 70w and outputting something else, it's likely at least 70% of that (~50w). This is 2013....psu's aren't 50% efficient nowadays.

fwiw: Iwata's comments (when detailing WiiUs hardware) were that the WiiU uses a maximum 70w, but normal use will be ~40w.


Disclaimer: I'm not claiming to know anything about the subject, just rambling. Probably miles off

 

[OminoMichelin]

If a power supply says it can output 70w isn't that what it can output? I always thought the "efficiency" part applies to how much power it requires (input) to output that 70w. In this case, say it draws 100w to output that maximum 70w, making it 70% efficient. The other 30% is lost as heat etc. Afaik, the power adaptor has to display the exact power it can output.

That's how PC PSUs work anyhow. You buy an 80% rated 700w PSU, it outputs 700w. Not 80% of 700w. Probably draws ~900w from the wall.

And even if WiiUs psu is only drawing 70w and outputting something else, it's likely at least 70% of that (~50w). This is 2013....psu's aren't 50% efficient nowadays.

fwiw: Iwata's comments (when detailing WiiUs hardware) were that the WiiU uses a maximum 70w, but normal use will be ~40w.

40w would be a huge step up from what seems to be used as of now.
I can't see it drawing any more than that though, it would get very hot in that little box

 

[jeffers]

the PSU is rated to output 75W... making it hard to conclude either way but knowing ninty playing it safe with ratings and such (feel this has been covered and GC/Wii etc been quoted, are they on conservative side?). someone should load it up with a disc+some external HDDs and try max load the thing.

 

[The_Lump]

40w would be a huge step up from what seems to be used as of now.
I can't see it drawing any more than that though, it would get very hot in that little box

Well it ain't that little. Next to my ps3 slim it doesn't seem to have much less volume

 

[strata8]

Well it ain't that little. Next to my ps3 slim it doesn't seem to have much less volume

The fan + heatsink is the Wii U is kinda cute and pathetic compared to what's in the PS3.

vs.

 

[bomblord]

What do you want people to talk about ?, the die has been analysed several times for 6+ months, the GPU looks to be 176GFLOPs.

Some of us still like to talk about what the GPU might be capable of, what it won't be capable of, what Nintendo should do next hardware wise ect, if that doesn't interest you then... well don't read the thread if it upsets you.

There has been nothing new info wise with regards to the GPU for months...

Is this a fact now? Last time I came into this thread it was the 352gflops.

I did see a while ago one person claiming 176 for seemingly no reason though and a few people arguing. Would be ridiculous to try searching the whole thread so is 176 all but confirmed?

 

[OminoMichelin]

Is this a fact now? Last time I came into this thread it was the 352gflops.

I did see a while ago one person claiming 176 for seemingly no reason though and a few people arguing. Would be ridiculous to try searching the whole thread so is 176 all but confirmed?

No there are just 3-4 people in this thread actively reiterating a few made up ''facts'' for which the have no concrete evidence aside from speculation.
They also regularly appear in other WiiU threads to actively jeer the graphics of the games; I've come to consider them as joke characters by now.

 

[The_Lump]

The fan + heatsink is the Wii U is kinda cute and pathetic compared to what's in the PS3.

vs.

. Although that incorporates many other variables. I merely named the ps3 slim to highlight the fact that WiiU isn't so small as to discount it using above 40w.

 

[Frankfurter]

If a power supply says it can output 70w isn't that what it can output? I always thought the "efficiency" part applies to how much power it requires (input) to output that 70w. In this case, say it draws 100w to output that maximum 70w, making it 70% efficient. The other 30% is lost as heat etc. Afaik, the power adaptor has to display the exact power it can output.

That's how PC PSUs work anyhow. You buy an 80% rated 700w PSU, it outputs 700w. Not 80% of 700w. Probably draws ~900w from the wall.

And even if WiiUs psu is only drawing 70w and outputting something else, it's likely at least 70% of that (~50w). This is 2013....psu's aren't 50% efficient nowadays.

fwiw: Iwata's comments (when detailing WiiUs hardware) were that the WiiU uses a maximum 70w, but normal use will be ~40w.


Disclaimer: I'm not claiming to know anything about the subject, just rambling. Probably miles off

You are totally right there. And as you said it's same in terms of PC PSUs, i.e. a 500W rated PSU isn't limited to drawing 500W from the wall.

 

[USC-fan]

Just re-checked the September 2012 Nintendo Direct unveiling of Wii U tech specs and Iwata specifically says that the Wii U can draw UP TO 75 watts with it generally consuming 45 watts (35W for system and 10W for USB ports). Why would he mention this if the 75 watts only applied to the spec of the AC adapter itself and not the console?

We been over this back in Sept of 12. Wasn't that in Japanese?

I have stated facts. Go check your wiiu power brick, it will have 75watts on it. In mass consumer products never run the psu more than about 50%.

Like others have said it take power to convert power so the wiiu uses less than 33watts.

This has been covered many times before...this is nothing new.