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[tipoo]

How did you come to that conclusion?

When a device is quoted to draw N Watts that's what it means - that the device is drawing N Watts from its source. Not from the wall, or any other place between the source and the nearby power plant, for that matter ; )

I suppose you could be right, it just seems odd that someone would be talking about power draw and not mean from the wall. If we talk about, say, laptop power draw, when talking about the maximum we'd say it was 90w or whatever, and that would be from the wall socket, and measurements with a kill-a-watt between the plug and the socket would reflect that.

Oh, and I almost forgot, the power supply itself is rated for 75W, making that an absolute maximum draw. A 1000W PC power supply with a fairly good efficiency of 80% will draw 800W from the wall at max on its best day. And looking at all prior Nintendo consoles and to a lesser degree Sony and MS, all power supplies have been overprovisioned to a similar extent.

On-topic, dual engine, why wouldn't Latte have this or die shot shows no signs. Is effiency enough to produce the city in Bayonetta 2?

I thought the dual graphics engine in the 6970 was only to help keep the sheer number of shaders fed, not so important for lower shader count parts?

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

What's so special about the city?

Also, the dual engine was in a high end HD 6900 part. Not sure why Wii U is being compared to a 2 Teraflop card.

I find it impressive, considering framerate and its display during the Gomorrah fight. And from what I've read, the addition of the dual engine was partly used to assist in polygon performance and tessellation. It also was for better ROP performance.

Is there any reason why a dual engine can't be present in Latte? I've made no mention of a 2 teraflop card.

You come off like an attack dog, lighten up.

 

[JordanN]

I find it impressive, considering framerate and its display during the Gomorrah fight. And from what I've read, the addition of the dual engine was partly used to assist in polygon performance and tessellation. It also was for better ROP performance.

Is there any reason why a dual engine can't be present in Latte? I've made no mention of a 2 teraflop card

What's the reason it can't be done on one engine (like the far majority of games out there)? If Wii U doesn't need it, I'm not understanding why there would be more.

The dual graphics engine was in a 2 Teraflop card if you didn't know.

You come off like an attack dog, lighten up.

Bark Bark? I didn't attempt to tear you apart for that comment.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Since part of discussing power is comparing platforms...how does the city in GTAV compare to Bayonetta 2?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Since part of discussing power is comparing platforms...how does the city in GTAV compare to Bayonetta 2?

Tbh I dont really think that comparison makes sense..maybe to X or something.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

What's the reason it can't be done on one engine (like the far majority of games out there)? If Wii U doesn't need it, I'm not understanding why there would be more.

The dual graphics engine was in a 2 Teraflop card if you didn't know.


*Bark Bark*

Still doesn't answer the question why a dual graphics engine can't be in Latte, so I guess that means Latte doesn't have compute units.

This is what I read

www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950/6

 

[JordanN]

Still doesn't answer the question why a dual graphics engine can't be in Latte, so I guess that means Latte doesn't have compute units.

This is what I read

www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950/6

I never said it wasn't in there, I was asking "why" it needs to be in there, especially since the hardware in Wii U is drastically lower powered to the one in the HD 6970 which does use it.

You mentioned the city of Bayo2 but I said what was so important about the city that would lead you to believe it's not being or can't be done on one engine?

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Since part of discussing power is comparing platforms...how does the city in GTAV compare to Bayonetta 2?

If had Platinum had halved the framerate, then I could compare them, well there's open world thing to.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I never said it wasn't in there, I was asking "why" it needs to be in there, especially since the hardware in Wii U is drastically lower powered to the one in the HD 6970 which does use it.

You mentioned the city of Bayo2 but I said what was so important about the city that would lead you to believe it's not being or can't be done on one engine?

It's the framerate, you have a camera position that changes rapidly. Shadows, self-shadowing, alpha transparencies representing heat distortion, reflections pre-baked or not, there's more I'll have to watch the gameplay video from GameSpot again. But these things eat up polygons budgets

 

[JordanN]

It's the framerate,

So?

you have a camera position that changes rapidly.

So?

Shadows, self-shadowing,

Self shadows were very common this gen. So were regular shadows.

alpha transparencies representing heat distortion,

I don't think this is new either (any game with fire comes to mind or the exhaust from planes/cars).

But these things eat up polygons budgets

Ok, but how are you getting 2x engines out of all this? Why can't the 1 do it?

 

[HTupolev]

Self shadows were very common this gen. So were regular shadows.

Regular shadows were exceptionally standard sixth-gen as well. Self-shadows back then were less common; you had the occasional thing like the Rogue Squadron games squeezing them in on a few objects here and there.
There were some games that were planning to have them but wound up dropping them for various reasons. Halo 2 is a fairly well-known case of developmental silliness; originally they were aiming to use stencil buffers to get extremely high-quality shadows, including self-shadows, but the Xbox's fillrate wasn't exactly up to the task in large-scale environments with lots of stuff (no shit, lol).

The main thing with self-shadows is that they're less visually "primary" than regular ones. Suppose you have a diffuse-lot object that
1-has a ground shadow but no self-shadowing, or
2-has self-shadowing but no ground shadow.
Number 1 is going to look a lot more reasonable at a glance.
I'm sure similar logic contributes to how plenty of games have diffuse reflections from dynamic lights, but not specular.

The unfortunate thing is that even this gen, self-shadows have mostly been pretty low-quality. You can have a game like FFXIII with impressive consistancy across most aspects of image quality, and there'll still inevitably be shimmering textures on parts of character models. I've played games which I've thought would have looked better if they just removed the self-shadows.

I don't think this is new either (any game with fire comes to mind).

I guess it somewhat depends on what you mean. Obviously most games with fire uses alpha for the fire and smoke. Whether it also distorts the image to represent heat is another matter, although that's still very common. Plenty of games use distortion around stuff like aircraft thrusters.

Since part of discussing power is comparing platforms...how does the city in GTAV compare to Bayonetta 2?

It really doesn't. The fact that they're both "cities" does not make them similar kinds of environments. One is using the city as a background that needs to have just enough small-scale detail that you won't be too annoyed when flying by it at high speed, the other uses the city as a network of high-density playspaces.

You could go ahead and compare them, but it would be difficult to squeeze many useful conclusions out.

Still doesn't answer the question why a dual graphics engine can't be in Latte

There's no reason it *couldn't* be in Latte, it's just that it would imply a rather unusual amount of triangle and pixel setup hardware to throw data at a (relatively) small block of shaders.

It just doesn't feel all that likely. Triangle setup in particular isn't necessarily a very linear and direct bottleneck on polycounts here; doubling your graphics engines might not suddenly make it practical to push twice as many polygons. If the WiiU is indeed pushing far more polygons than PS360, factors like increased RAM and even pixel shading capability might be having a bigger effect than the graphics engine scheme.

 

[Jack Cayman]

Guys sorry to ask on this thread but I am looking for a good video capture card to take a direct video feed for games in 1080p and 60fps to make some comparisons with Wii U, Xbox 360 and Ps3 to end some speculations about the conversation that is going on here. I did some research about the equipment DF are using to screen cap and take video but the only thing I found was from their old site that they were using this.

http://www.digitalfoundry.org/blog/?p=815

and this

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-gameplay-capture

Which they did not update since 2011... This equipment do not capture video or screenshots at 1080p only in 720p which I find odd.

They do not give any information to my knowledge what equipment they are using now on Eurogamer face offs so I can make some market research to buy similar equipment.

I made some very interesting finds about Rayman Legends and Splinter Cell Blacklist versions of the Wii U which gives many infos about the Latte but I need proof to back them up before I post so any help would appreciated.

I was going to buy this capture card but if anyone has any suggestions or more information about capturing video cards that can record at 1080p and 60fps, because they cards I found in my country can only capture 1080p 30fps.

http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/english/mvxx/specification.html

 

[LCGeek]

Guys sorry to ask on this thread but I am looking for a good video capture card to take a direct video feed for games in 1080p and 60fps to make some comparisons with Wii U, Xbox 360 and Ps3 to end some speculations about the conversation that is going on here. I did some research about the equipment DF are using to screen cap and take video but the only thing I found was from their old site that they were using this.

http://www.digitalfoundry.org/blog/?p=815

and this

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-gameplay-capture

Which they did not update since 2011... This equipment do not capture video or screenshots at 1080p only in 720p which I find odd.

They do not give any information to my knowledge what equipment they are using now on Eurogamer face offs so I can make some market research to buy similar equipment.

I made some very interesting finds about Rayman Legends and Splinter Cell Blacklist versions of the Wii U which gives many infos about the Latte but I need proof to back them up before I post so any help would appreciated.

I was going to buy this capture card but if anyone has any suggestions or more information about capturing video cards that can record at 1080p and 60fps, because they cards I found in my country can only capture 1080p 30fps.

http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/english/mvxx/specification.html

The pc build thread can help you find the card you're looking for, though you might have problems buying it.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Why is this thread even alive anymore? It's gone from technical analysis to random, arbitrary flag-waving and comparing cityscapes or some shit.

 

[blu]

I suppose you could be right, it just seems odd that someone would be talking about power draw and not mean from the wall. If we talk about, say, laptop power draw, when talking about the maximum we'd say it was 90w or whatever, and that would be from the wall socket, and measurements with a kill-a-watt between the plug and the socket would reflect that.

Manufacturers don't rate the power draw of their devices via kill-a-watt at the wall. They measure it at the power source (which could be the wall, if the device in question is a PSU or has a built-in one). When you buy an electric device and its label says "5 Watts" that's what the device draws (at max) from the source. For instance, the netbook I'm typing this on says 'DC 19V - 2.15A', AKA 40 Watts worth of DC, and that's what the source should be able to provide, or else. Whether I supply this device with DC from the converter brick plugged in the wall, or from a 19V battery is irrelevant, the device will continue to top at 40 Watts. Now, the PSU of the abovementioned netbook is rated as 19V, 2.15A, 40W output (notice the coincidence?) and AC 100-240V ~1A for its input (which, in this case, is the wall) - there's no quotation of the Wattage at the input of the PSU, which is normal.

Oh, and I almost forgot, the power supply itself is rated for 75W, making that an absolute maximum draw. A 1000W PC power supply with a fairly good efficiency of 80% will draw 800W from the wall at max on its best day.

It's the other way round. PSUs, just like the one I quoted above, are rated for their output, not for their input - an N Watt PSU should be able to supply N Watts. That's because you care about supplying the necessary power to the consumer, not how much you draw at the wall (which you could measure with the proper equipment). A 1000W PSU with 80% efficiency will peak at 1250W at the wall, assuming the 80% is the conversion rate at peak load, and not at, say 80% load.

 

[The_Lump]

Manufacturers don't rate the power draw of their devices via kill-a-watt at the wall. They measure it at the power source (which could be the wall, if the device in question is a PSU or has a built-in one). When you buy an electric device and its label says "5 Watts" that's what the device draws (at max) from the source. For instance, the netbook I'm typing this on says 'DC 19V - 2.15A', AKA 40 Watts worth of DC, and that's what the source should be able to provide, or else. Whether I supply this device with DC from the converter brick plugged in the wall, or from a 19V battery is irrelevant, the device will continue to top at 40 Watts. Now, the PSU of the abovementioned netbook is rated as 19V, 2.15A, 40W output (notice the coincidence?) and AC 100-240V ~1A for its input (which, in this case, is the wall) - there's no quotation of the Wattage at the input of the PSU, which is normal.


It's the other way round. PSUs, just like the one I quoted above, are rated for their output, not for their input - an N Watt PSU should be able to supply N Watts. That's because you care about supplying the necessary power to the consumer, not how much you draw at the wall (which you could measure with the proper equipment). A 1000W PSU with 80% efficiency will peak at 1250W at the wall, assuming the 80% is the conversion rate at peak load, and not at, say 80% load.

Everyone needs to stop and read this several times until it clicks. This question has come up so many times in this thread (and all the other WiiU hardware threads)

 

[Nintendo64]

My laptop and psu both have exactly the same rating, so guess this is standard. Would be interesting for someone to check the power draw of a laptop running an intensive benchmark, just to see how close it gets to the rating printed on both the laptop and psu.

 

[blu]

My laptop and psu both have exactly the same rating, so guess this is standard. Would be interesting for someone to check the power draw of a laptop running an intensive benchmark, just to see how close it gets to the rating printed on both the laptop and psu.

Those 40W are most like required by the battery-charging circuits, and not by the device itself. We'd need to bypass the battery circuit altogether to properly measure the draw of the device.

 

[Nintendo64]

Those 40W are most like required by the battery-charging circuits, and not by the device itself. We'd need to bypass the battery circuit altogether to properly measure the draw of the device.

The idea was to see how much power is drawn from the psu when things are maxed out. So you would want to test with an empty battery (charging) whilst running a benchmark, hopefully you could test at the point where the psu lead connects to the laptop.

 

[Xanonano]

As a reminder, this is what krizzx said originally:

There isn't one.

This is just what most hardware is geared toward in the current day. It would make the code the most portable. That doesn't matter in exclusives though, whit is why the Wii U has so many 1080p 60fps retail exclusives.

Here is his list of retail titles, with the ones that don't meet those criteria crossed out:

Angry Birds Trilogy - also on PS3/360
Dragon Quest X - also on Wii
Disney's Planes - also on Wii
Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze - unreleased but confirmed 1080p 60fps - actually 720p 60fps
Epic Mickey 2 - also on Wii/PS3/360
Fast & Furious Showdown - also on PS3/360
Family Party: 30 Great Games Obstacle Arcade - launch title, not 1080p
Game and Wario - not 1080p
Game Party Champions - launch title, not 1080p
Jeopardy - also on PS3/360
LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes - also on PS3/360
Monster Hunter Tri: Ultimate - also on Wii/3DS
Ryu ga Gotoku 1&2 - also on PS3
Pokemon Rumble U - not a retail title, not 1080p
Rapala Pro Bass Fishing - not 1080p
Sangokushi 12 - also on PS3/360/PC
Scribblenauts: Unlimited - also on PC
Skylanders: Giants - also on PS3/360/Wii
The Smurfs 2 - also on PS3/360/Wii
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - unreleased but confirmed 1080p 60fps
Transformers Prime - launch title, also on Wii
Wind Waker HD - unreleased but confirmed 1080p 30fps
Wheel of Fortune - also on PS3/360

That's right - at the moment, the Wii U has exactly zero released 1080p 60fps retail exclusives, and only one upcoming. How can the Wii U have so many if the only one it has does not even have a release date, krizzx?

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Regular shadows were exceptionally standard sixth-gen as well. Self-shadows back then were less common; you had the occasional thing like the Rogue Squadron games squeezing them in on a few objects here and there.
There were some games that were planning to have them but wound up dropping them for various reasons. Halo 2 is a fairly well-known case of developmental silliness; originally they were aiming to use stencil buffers to get extremely high-quality shadows, including self-shadows, but the Xbox's fillrate wasn't exactly up to the task in large-scale environments with lots of stuff (no shit, lol).

The main thing with self-shadows is that they're less visually "primary" than regular ones. Suppose you have a diffuse-lot object that
1-has a ground shadow but no self-shadowing, or
2-has self-shadowing but no ground shadow.
Number 1 is going to look a lot more reasonable at a glance.
I'm sure similar logic contributes to how plenty of games have diffuse reflections from dynamic lights, but not specular.

The unfortunate thing is that even this gen, self-shadows have mostly been pretty low-quality. You can have a game like FFXIII with impressive consistancy across most aspects of image quality, and there'll still inevitably be shimmering textures on parts of character models. I've played games which I've thought would have looked better if they just removed the self-shadows.


I guess it somewhat depends on what you mean. Obviously most games with fire uses alpha for the fire and smoke. Whether it also distorts the image to represent heat is another matter, although that's still very common. Plenty of games use distortion around stuff like aircraft thrusters.


It really doesn't. The fact that they're both "cities" does not make them similar kinds of environments. One is using the city as a background that needs to have just enough small-scale detail that you won't be too annoyed when flying by it at high speed, the other uses the city as a network of high-density playspaces.

You could go ahead and compare them, but it would be difficult to squeeze many useful conclusions out.


There's no reason it *couldn't* be in Latte, it's just that it would imply a rather unusual amount of triangle and pixel setup hardware to throw data at a (relatively) small block of shaders.

It just doesn't feel all that likely. Triangle setup in particular isn't necessarily a very linear and direct bottleneck on polycounts here; doubling your graphics engines might not suddenly make it practical to push twice as many polygons. If the WiiU is indeed pushing far more polygons than PS360, factors like increased RAM and even pixel shading capability might be having a bigger effect than the graphics engine scheme.

Are you saying a programmer would run out memory, before shaders and textures can be applied?

 

[tipoo]

-

Good points. But there's still the matter of Nintendo as well as Sony and MS history, none of their consoles ever draw nearly as much as the PSUs are rated for, and Nintendo in particular often has double the rating of the wall power draw. That was so for the N64, Gamecube, Wii, possibly prior. The first number on google I saw for the Wii PSU was 44 watts, and as we all know it usually draws half of that, with almost no spikes beyond 20W.

 

[Nintendo64]

Good points. But there's still the matter of Nintendo as well as Sony and MS history, none of their consoles ever draw nearly as much as the PSUs are rated for, and Nintendo in particular often has double the rating of the wall power draw. That was so for the N64, Gamecube, Wii, possibly prior. The first number on google I saw for the Wii PSU was 44 watts, and as we all know it usually draws half of that, with almost no spikes beyond 20W.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Wii was meant to get a clock increase but Nintendo messed up, can't find the source though.

 

[tipoo]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Wii was meant to get a clock increase but Nintendo messed up, can't find the source though.

Pretty sure that was unsubstantiated rumor. Just like the last firmware update clocking the Wii to 3.06GHz or whatever.

This ratio of power draw to rated max just seems like normal Nintendo.

 

[krizzx]

As a reminder, this is what krizzx said originally:


Here is his list of retail titles, with the ones that don't meet those criteria crossed out:



That's right - at the moment, the Wii U has exactly zero released 1080p 60fps retail exclusives, and only one upcoming. How can the Wii U have so many if the only one it has does not even have a release date, krizzx?

First off, this list has nothing to do with that statement. I wasn't claiming anything when I said that other than the existence of multiple 1080p exclusives on the Wii U. Why are you crossing out games like its contradicting what I said?

That list was simply a list of 1080p Wii U games to support my stance that most Wii U games that are made with the Wii U as a focus are 1080p. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=81066277&postcount=9421 I've stated this numerous times, but I guess that is not a convenient target to attack for you.

You crossed out Donkey Kong and labeled it 720p which is not according to the devs.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UZuj-LQi1HhB6KnJJKVtaTg&bvm=bv.52164340,d.eWU

The plot of the game is that Donkey Kong Island has been overrun by Vikings from the North Fleet. In order to take back his home he must take off on an new adventure to find other Islands around the Country. The game has been confirmed to run at a smooth 60 Frames per second and in 1080p.

The Wii U version of Dragon Ques X is and HD remaster for the Wii U only, not the same game.

The HD version of Transformers Prime is exclusive to the Wii U.

Pokemon Rumbe U is 1080p 60 FPS last I checked,
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/pokemon-rumble-u-first-55-minutes-in-1080p.452973046/

The Wii U version of Yakuza 1 & 2 is also unique for the Wii U. It is not the same as the PS3 version.

Monster Hunter 3G Ultimate is not on the Wii(not that it would matter as its still a Nintendo exclusive) and the HD version in only for the Wii U.

Disney's Planes is the same as above.

Game and Wario is 1080p 60 FPS last I checked.

In fact, let me stop here. Why am I even arguing this? There is nothing to argue. My point was that most game that aren't launch games or ports are 1080p. That is a fact. That is what I have maintained since the beginning. Also, there also being another Nintendo hardware version does not negate exclusivity. The main point of all of this is that games that are made with Nintendo hardware in mind as the main platform generally boast much higher stats than games made in a similar nature last gen, and it was made for a reason.

That statement about 1080p 60 FPS games was just that, an arbitrary statement to simply acknowledge the fact that there are 1080p 60 FPS games on the Wii U already contrary to the popular negative opinion that the Wii U can't handle 1080p 60FPS in a 3D game. It was never anything else. It is absurd how you and these others have blown it this far out of context.

Stop trying to make arguments with me about nothing. I'm here to discuss the GPU and the data surrounding it, not for console wars and mud slinging. Its like half the people who come in this thread do it for no other reason than to attack me for saying positive things about the hardware. I'm not the topic of this thread. You'd think the thought of their being something good about the hardware is causing these people physical pain with the way they go out of their way to dismiss and impede any positive progress. Some of them seem to hate the fact that this thread even exists, like they don't want any other capabilities being discovered for the Wii U.

 

[NBtoaster]

Game and Wario and Pokemon Rumble U are 720p, no AA. Youtube video quality is not representitive of the game resolution.

 

[krizzx]

Game and Wario and Pokemon Rumble U are 720p, no AA. Youtube video quality is not representitive of the game resolution.

Source, or any evidence at all?

 

[ColdBlooder]

First off, this list has nothing to do with that statement. I wasn't claiming anything when I said that other than the existence of multiple 1080p exclusives on the Wii U. Why are you crossing out games like its contradicting what I said?

That list was simply a list of 1080p Wii U games to support my stance that most Wii U games that are made with the Wii U as a focus are 1080p. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=81066277&postcount=9421 I've stated this numerous times, but I guess that is not a convenient target to attack for you.

You crossed out Donkey Kong and labeled it 720p which is not according to the devs.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UZuj-LQi1HhB6KnJJKVtaTg&bvm=bv.52164340,d.eWU
The Wii U version of Dragon Ques X is and HD remaster for the Wii U only, not the same game.

The HD version of Transformers Prime is exclusive to the Wii U.

Pokemon Rumbe U is 1080p 60 FPS last I checked,
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/pokemon-rumble-u-first-55-minutes-in-1080p.452973046/

The Wii U version of Yakuza 1 & 2 is also unique for the Wii U. It is not the same as the PS3 version.

Monster Hunter 3G Ultimate is not on the Wii(not that it would matter as its still a Nintendo exclusive) and the HD version in only for the Wii U.

Disney's Planes is the same as above.

Game and Wario is 1080p 60 FPS last I checked.

In fact, let me stop here. Why am I even arguing this? There is nothing to argue. My point was that most game that aren't launch games or ports are 1080p. That is a fact. That is what I have maintained since the beginning. Also, there also being another Nintendo hardware version does not negate exclusivity. The main point of all of this is that games that are made with Nintendo hardware in mind as the main platform generally boast much higher stats than games made in a similar nature last gen, and it was made for a reason.

That statement about 1080p 60 FPS games was just that, an arbitrary statement to simply acknowledge the fact that there are 1080p 60 FPS games on the Wii U already contrary to the popular negative opinion that the Wii U can't handle 1080p 60FPS in a 3D game. It was never anything else. It is absurd how you and these others have blown it this far out of context.

Stop trying to make arguments with me about nothing. I'm here to discuss the GPU and the data surrounding it, not for console wars and mud slinging. Its like half the people who come in this thread do it for no other reason than to attack me for saying positive things about the hardware. I'm not the topic of this thread. You'd think the thought of their being something good about the hardware is causing these people physical pain with the way they go out of their way to dismiss and impede any positive progress. Some of them seem to hate the fact that this thread even exists, like they don't want any other capabilities being discovered for the Wii U.

Tilmen ALWAYS uploads EVERYTHING in 1080p, wether the game is 1080p or not. You can't use any of his videos for reference.

 

[krizzx]

Tilmen ALWAYS uploads EVERYTHING in 1080p, wether the game is 1080p or not. You can't use any of his videos for reference.

Alright, then you have something better to draw a conclusion from?

 

[Liabe Brave]

Why am I even arguing this? There is nothing to argue. My point was that most game that aren't launch games or ports are 1080p. That is a fact.

No, it is not a fact. It is a claim, and as such has to be tested against reality. You provided a list of 23 games that were supposedly 1080p60 retail exclusives not from launch, or ports.

- One of the games isn't retail
- One of the games isn't 60fps
- Three of the games were launch titles
- Ten of the games aren't exclusives

That's 15 games that don't meet the supposed criteria for the list, leaving just 8 titles. (Of those, two or three of them may not be 1080p, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt.) So your statement that there are "so many 1080p60 retail exclusives" boils down to single digits.

That statement about 1080p 60 FPS games was just that, an arbitrary statement to simply acknowledge the fact that there are 1080p 60 FPS games on the Wii U already contrary to popular negative opinion. It was never anything else. It is absurd how you and these other have blown it this far out of context.

Don't blame others. It was you that put verifiable qualifiers on the 1080p60 claim (retail, exclusive, not launch, not ports). It was you that posted the list.

Stop trying to make arguments with me about nothing. I'm here to discuss the GPU and the data surrounding it, not for console wars and mud slinging.

Part of how you discuss the GPU is to make claims about what it can do. When those claims are wrong or exaggerated--as this one clearly was--correcting them helps discussion of the GPU, it doesn't distract from it.

 

[NBtoaster]

Source, or any evidence at all?

The press screens are quite clearly 720p native.
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2013/197/704265_20130717_screen006.jpg
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2012/256/673082_20120913_screen005.jpg

 

[krizzx]

No, it is not a fact. It is a claim, and as such has to be tested against reality. You provided a list of 23 games that were supposedly 1080p60 retail exclusives not from launch, or ports.

This is a lie that I have called twice already.

That list and that statement have nothing to do with one another.

There being many 1080 60fps Wii U games was not a claim, it was a statement to acknowledge that the Wii U does in fact have 1080 60FPS retail exclusives contrary to statement at the time I said it that the Wii U couldn't handle it. I only stated that there were many, not how many.

That list was to support my claim that most Wii U games that weren't launch games or ports are 1080p. That includes all games on the system. Stop taking my statements out of context facilitate fake arguments.

The press screens are quite clearly 720p native.
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2013/197/704265_20130717_screen006.jpg
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2012/256/673082_20120913_screen005.jpg

So, the press screens are proof?

Then that absolutely verified that Sonic Lost Wolrd is 1080p because its press screen are 1080p and apparently, Might Switch Force HD which known to be in 1080p 60 FPS http://canadianonlinegamers.com/review/mighty-switch-force-hyper-drive-edition-wii-u-eshop-review/ is only 720p now because that what the early press shots were http://www.wayforward.com/msf-hd/.

 

[NBtoaster]

Press screens that aren't bullshots are usually representitive.

 

[krizzx]

Press screens that aren't bullshots are usually representitive.

Even when they are lower than the none native resolution?

Also, did you even click the photo you posted? Over half the photo is of the Wi U gamepad and white space around it. This doesn't even show a full image of the game, and Nintendo is known for releasing all in 720p for the Wii U regardless of it actual resolution though that doesn' tseem to be the case here.

This is a media release video of it and its in 1080p. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzZaKGkQldU

All actual media I can find for the game is in 1080p, http://gameandwarioreview.com/tag/1080p/

 

[strata8]

Even when they are lower than the none native resolution?

What? Even if you meant to say 'non-native resolution', this doesn't make sense.

Also, did you even click the photo you posted? Over half the photo is of the Wi U gamepad and white space around it. This doesn't evne show a full image of the game.

So it's a composite. The image they've included is still clearly a direct screenshot of a 720p game.

All actual media I can find for the game is in 1080p, http://gameandwarioreview.com/tag/1080p/

As has already been pointed out to you, a 1080p YouTube video isn't representative of anything. By that logic, Crysis 3 on the 360 must be 1080p as shown by this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3ItDjxLBo

 

[krizzx]

What? Even if you meant to say 'non-native resolution', this doesn't make sense.

Then you didn't read thoroughly, because I posted an example of such at the top of the page.

So it's a composite. The image they've included is still clearly a direct screenshot of a 720p game.

Could be, but that doesn't change the fact that all of the video media I can find for it is 1080p and there is a lot.

 

[atbigelow]

Again, nobody is debating that the Wii U has the ability to output 1080p. It hasn't shown the capability to produce a complex 3D game at that resolution, however. So far the only game we've seen coming up is Smash Bros. Donkey Kong hasn't been "confirmed" unless you can find a quote from Retro or Nintendo stating that. In fact, there's this tidbit:

The game is, as far as we can tell, running at 720p, not a full 1080p, based on the screenshots Nintendo provided via their E3 press site. Images for games such as The Wind Waker HD that have been confirmed to be running in 1080p are in full 1920 x 1080 resolution, so we have to assume that Tropical Freeze will launch below true high definition resolution.

http://www.eggplante.com/2013/06/17/e3-2013-impressions-donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze/

It's different to render Donkey Kong at 1080p than it is Mighty Switch Force. I'm still not buying that "1080p is just gonna be a learning curve for developers." Super Mario 3D World is Nintendo's biggest game of this year and runs at 720p. Wonderful 101, is 720p. Bayonetta 2 is 720p. So far the hardware has not shown the chops for it.

And that's fine.

 

[Liabe Brave]

This is a lie that I have called twice already.

That list and that statement have nothing to do with one another.

I never claimed any number of games were 1080 "60fps". I only stated that there were many.

That list was to support my claim that most Wii U games that weren't launch games or ports are 1080p. That includes all games on the system.

Okay then, you actually made two claims. One, that there are "so many" 1080p60 retail exclusives. Two, that most non-launch, non-port WiiU games are 1080p.

For the first claim, there's somewhere between 8 and 11 games that meet it. That 's most certainly not what I'd call "so many".

For the second claim, there's somewhere between 11 and 14 games that meet it. That's most certainly not "most WiiU games".

 

[strata8]

Then you didn't read thoroughly, because I posted an example of such at the top of the page..

An example of what?

No, it doesn't even look 480p by itself.

Huh?

krizzx, a lot of what you post is indecipherable. Work on being more clear in what you say.

 

[krizzx]

Okay then, you actually made two claims. One, that there are "so many" 1080p60 retail exclusives.

That was never a claim, that was a statement for the 4th time.

I only made one claim.

Stop trying to argue that statement as some grandiose claim.

An example of what?

An example of what you said in the text I quoted.

Release photos of Mighty Switch Force and quite a few other 1080p Wii U games were 720p. Release photos of Trine 2 were below 720p but that is native 720p on the Wii U. Release photos alone do not absolutely confirm the resolution the game runs at.

 

[strata8]

Release photos of Mighty Switch Force and quite a few other 1080p Wii U games were 720p. Release Photos of Trine 2 were below 720p but that is native 720p on the Wii U. Release photos alone do not absolutely confirm the resolution the game runs at.

Can you post one of those release photos?

 

[krizzx]

Can you post one of those release photos?

I did...

This is why I usually ignore people who come in here to attack my post. They never check facts for themselves and they never check to see what has been posted already.

 

[Liabe Brave]

That was never a claim, that was a statement of acknowledgement. "so many" doesn't claim anything other than the existence of more than one of a given object.

This is not even remotely true. Definitions of "many":
Wiktionary: "An indefinite large number of"
Dictionary.com: "Constituting or forming a large number"
Merriam-Webster: "Consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number"

I only made one claim, for the 4th time.

Okay, if you insist. It must be this:

It is a fact that at the moment, most Wii U games that aren't launch games, or ports are 1080p.

The number of non-launch, non-port 1080p games on WiiU is between 11 and 14. So your one claim was wrong.

 

[krizzx]

This is not even remotely true. Definitions of "many":
Wiktionary: "An indefinite large number of"
Dictionary.com: "Constituting or forming a large number"
Merriam-Webster: "Consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number"


Okay, if you insist. It must be this:

The number of non-launch, non-port 1080p games on WiiU is between 11 and 14. So your one claim was wrong.

Hence my point. It is not a claim of anything. It is indefinite. also its "so many" not just many, but do I really need to go through this again?


There are 15 1080p games on the eshop alone...

 

[NBtoaster]

Even when they are lower than the none native resolution?

Also, did you even click the photo you posted? Over half the photo is of the Wi U gamepad and white space around it. This doesn't even show a full image of the game, and Nintendo is known for releasing all in 720p for the Wii U regardless of it actual resolution though that doesn' tseem to be the case here.

This is a media release video of it and its in 1080p. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzZaKGkQldU

All actual media I can find for the game is in 1080p, http://gameandwarioreview.com/tag/1080p/

The actual game part has 1280x720 dimensions, and its native. I can't find any native 1080p screens.

 

[atbigelow]

Hence my point. It is not a claim of anything. It is indefinite. also its "so many" not just many, but do I really need to go through this again?


There are 15 1080p games on the eshop alone...

Do those 15 1080p games render anything as complex as Pikmin 3, Bayonetta 2 or Wonderful 101? That's the actual thing to be discussing, not just pure resolution and framerate.

 

[strata8]

I did...

Any 3D games? It's difficult to look at image quality in a 2D game like MSF.

 

[darkistheway]

Alright, then you have something better to draw a conclusion from?

Your source for your claims were 1080p videos?

Amazing.

What exactly are your goals posting in this thread? You appear to have no technical expertise and continue to exhibit borderline behavior.

You are free to post of course, I just can't fathom why you do.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Hence my point. It is not a claim of anything. It is indefinite.

And "large", but you're right. Let's not belabor the point any more.

There are 15 1080p games on the eshop alone...

Of which 6 are ports, and 4 were launch games.

The number of non-launch, non-port 1080p games on WiiU is between 11 and 14. So your one claim was wrong.

 

[guek]

I wish you guys would just stop trying to convince krizzx of anything. That road leads to nowhere.