Out of curiosity, what is the right way to play them?
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn |OT2| Use a security token. Seriously.
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Out of curiosity, what is the right way to play them?
On bosses, you'll have your DoT's up anyway, so Fester is more of an instant-cast off-global nuke you use in your rotation.
What I'm talking about is on-demand burst for adds that need to be dropped quick. Fester doesn't help much in those situations and it's often better to just go with Energy Drain for the straight up 150 potency.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
My mistake then
Still Khrno is a little ahead of most of the SMN out there agreed?
The weapon and gear do help boost his output and him learning the class is the hugest benefit too
Most SMN pull a pet, attack and call it a day until they beg to use a LB3 Meteor to feel special... err... needed
Most here a week back were telling me WAR was the preferred end game tank, PLD was most off tank/skill oriented necessity tank, now all of sudden PLD is primo for end game and it's mitigation skills and I see WAR's switching to PLD
So things will change, balance will shift
At least we can all agree those Spoony Bards have it best, move and still shoot arrows!
Nerf Banhammer Cometh!
Mostly managing your aetherflow so you can use it more on fester and less on engery drain. Outside of that it is making sure you keep your dots running and not wasting your mana.
I smiled when I saw them. Weren't there very similar crocs in FFXII? Brought back memories of the deluge areas.
Zomba13
Member
Cool, enough time to knock out some GETHJERK.
Because Amano.
Wish they were as colourful.
Nah, he's not the SMN, but the SMN was doing big damage even before getting his relic, since we were farming AK for him to get the toms
Also pls don't nerf bards, they carry me through the Coil. Just buff dragoons.
Oh wow, im headed there tonight...cant believe they actually bought the crocodile enemy back.
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lockebelmont
Member
I was able to get a copy of this last week. Really great game. The weather effects are nothing more than special. I have never seen another MMO come close in terms of mood and setting.
Saw this and could not unsee it.
Saw this and could not unsee it.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Oh wow, im headed there tonight...cant believe they actually bought the crocodile enemy back.
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It's the Bull Croc from FFXII.
Beatennnnnn
Ifrit-Egi over Garuda-Egi in ideal situations, Bio 2 > Miasma > Bio (no Thunder), keep Fester on CD unless it's a fight to use Bane. Usually wanna use Ruin over Ruin 2 unless your tank is a WAR then it's situational Ruin 2. If using Bane gotta time it perfectly so adds are close enough when they spawn + maximum DoT damage since the duration reset is random (I still can't get this right, the range on Bane is really flipping short). Keep Rouse+Spur on CD except for when it's time to save them for Enkindle. I'm sure I'm missing a few things.
I've said this before, but most of my problems with SMN are from the U.I. and Pet A.I. They should have toggles for abilities rather than Sic/Obey, Steady should not auto-change to Guard as soon as the pet does anything, there should not be a "DoT" cap so DoTs get rotated off FATE mobs and such when there's a lot of people, ect. So When I see people complain about the DPS I just facepalm. Maybe complain about some of their abilities being janky like Tri-Disaster and low tier AoE options, but I see no reason to doubt overall SMN DPS at this time. None. If anyone sees an actual problem describe it in detail or I just can't take it seriously, there's too much unsubstantiated rumors from invalid parses being treated as factual info.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I was always weirded out by the Bull Crocs lol. Why not just have a regular looking croc?
Why is Ifrit superior to Garuda?
Is Thunder just not worth the mp?
(The rest of it is understandable).
TheDancingWatermelon
Member
I'm by no means a perfect SMN, and could surely work on a few things. That said some of the common issues I see other SMN's failing to do in my opinion:
-Proper pet management. Obey vs Sic, knowing what your pet can take in damage and moving him or healing him if necessary.
-Use of Thunder. No reason not to make use of it, a GCD for an extra dot in place of a Ruin. Is also extended by Garuda-egi's Contagion ability.
-Use of Shadowflare on single target. See above
-Using Ruin over Ruin 2. Ruin 2 costs more MP, messes up PLD blinds, and costs a GCD on itself. Casting Ruin 1 as your filler allows you to more seamlessly go into the next cast, or even just interrupt ruin for something more pressing. I hit Ruin 2 when I'm fooling around, on the move, there's no PLD tank, or at the end of a Ruin cast if the mob is really low and there's not enough time to hammer another Ruin in.
-Making use of utility. We SMN's are the only DPS able to resurrect. Leveling THM to 26 for Swiftcast and combining it with resurrect can save fights if they get out of hand. We have an ability to help our tanks take less damage(eye for an eye). We have Virus, and much more.
Again, just my opinion as I'm sure other SMN's may disagree or do some things differently. I think alot of the early reputation of SMN damage was knee-jerk reactions in a brand new game to a brand new class.
Do you have a link to this? I'd be interested in reading it!
That's why I've so worried. They're hardly any needed skills in this game, just a fast reaction time to avoiding the red lines. That's pretty much it. Everything else is so simple. Most classes need to focus on just one attribute. They are no modifiers from what I can tell. All a archer needs is dex, and all a drag need is str. Not both, or a mixture. This is really bad IMO.
But you're right on the first part of your post. That's my bad on the way I've wrote that. Increased time does NOT equate increased difficulty. But increased difficulty DOES make it longer to get the things you want, artificially lengthening the the content of the game.
What seems like what's happening here is the guys with the most time are the ones with the best gear, its not a knock against them, its just the way the game seems to be designed.
Shouta
Member
For on-demand stuff like adds, energy drain is definitely better if it's a weaker one. If the add had somewhat substantial HP, then ramping up your DOTs is not a bad idea at all.
I'm not completely sure because I haven't seen the code for any of them but here's the thing... the potency of DoT ticks is known. A parser could detect when you cast a DoT and see how much damage you're doing with X potency attacks (some DoTs like Demolish even do an initial hit with the same potency as their DoT effect making the calculation even easier) and get a good estimate on how much each tick of your DoTs is going to do. This damage could then be adjusted for crit based on the crit rate of your parseable attacks. The parser would also need to keep track of DoT durations (also a known variable from the game) to adjust for when you re-apply a DoT before its duration is completely over. Using a method like this won't give you the exact damage but it would theoretically give you a very, very good trustworthy estimate.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Yeah, I appreciate what they tried to do with making melee DPS more involved and less face roll but with the amount of AoEs this game just rains on you it just doesn't seem feasible to me. Especially when Bards, Black Mages and Summoners have no positioning requirements whatsoever and they can stand back out of the majority of AoE attacks.
I don't know, I'm curious to see what they'll do with Monk and Dragoon in the coming months when they start tweaking classes.
devious.one
Member
I'm sure TheDancingWatermelon or Khrno could go much more in depth then I can, but the biggest offender/problem I notice from most Summoners is that once they get Ruin 2 they throw Ruin 1 to the side. Ruin 2 is so mp inefficient (and shares the same damage potency as Ruin 1!).
I see so many summoners spamming Ruin 2 on bosses as they drop down to 0 MP... which forces them to use a Aetherflow charge on Energy Drain just to keep up when they should be using Fester (Or Bane, depending on the situation) as much as possible with their Aetherflow charges.
Of course Ruin 2 has it's uses, but not as a mainstay nuke 24/7.
I'm no fan of it either. It was nice at first, then I realised ranged DPS jobs were doing more damage than me without giving a flying fuck about position.
Ifrit-Egi's abilities actually have anywhere from 10-25(?) potency over Garuda-Egi's moves while being on the same CD if you compare tooltips, and Ifrit's Enkindle adds a DoT while Garuda's does not. Ifrit's main issues are that it's much easier for him to die from boss cleaves and close range AoE, and Ifrit's Stun can start causing resistance to some boss mobs and thus interfere with interrupts (like Ifrit HM). There's also a few situations where being ranged is just nicer (like fast add switching) and Garuda is prolly better there too just because Ifrit has to plod over while Garuda starts blasting immediately.
And yea Thunder is nice for leveling but does not add any significant form of DPS while costing a nice chunk of MP. It doesn't work with Fester or any other SMN abilities. It's better to focus on baseline DoT upkeep, Fester efficiency, pet efficiency, ect.
There should definitely be a sweet spot for dealing damage as a range user at the very least.
I don't really agree with any of this. Garuda > Ifrit for Contagion alone. It's such a short 60 second cooldown that you can use it for every trash pack too.
Thunder should be added to your rotation.
Ruin 2 can be useful when you are forced to move. It's the same damage as Ruin anyway, but at a higher MP cost, and allows you to continue damage while moving. This is of course if you already have all your DoT's and Shadowflare up. One of the best uses for Ruin 2 I find is to allow you to run into melee range to Miasma (better DPS than Ruin so long as you hit at least 2 enemies).
Rouse and Spur have half the cooldown of Enkindle. You can use them twice for every Enkindle, unless you know ahead of time that you need to save Enkindle for a certain part of a boss encounter (and even then, Enkindle really isn't going to make much difference in your DPS anyway, as it's a pretty crappy lvl 50 job ability).
Other tips to boost DPS:
- Pop ARC's Raging Strikes when you reapply your DoT's, and then extend the souped up DoT's with Contagion.
- Consume an Intelligence potion, even a cheap one, at the start of the instance before you summon your pet. Your pet scales based on your stats at the time of summon, so even though the potion wears off, the pet will still maintain the boost. (I don't really do this much because I'm poor, but I do have plenty of regular Int potions as an Alchemist)
TheDancingWatermelon
Member
Yep Contagion alone is worth the price of admission for Garuda imo.
And your points on raging strikes and an int potion are huge. This is my starting rotation on a boss fight such as Demon Wall, Titan, or Cadaceus:
Eye for an Eye macro > Mega Int Pot > Raging Strikes > Bio 2 > Miasma > Bio 1 > Virus > Fester > Thunder > Shadow Flare > Contagion > Fester.
Some of those are happening simultaneously instead of eating up a whole GCD. It seems in line with other SMN starting rotations, although I've noticed some do things in a slightly different order. I personally use mine because it allows me to squeeze 2 Festers in during the RS buff, like seeing my 1400+ Festers!
darkblade77
Member
You're not going to get a decent enough sample size per-player for this to work on much of anything that isn't a boss. The parser needs to know the base stats of an individual casting DoT spells before the fact, not estimate it with a wide margin of error that should hopefully shrink the longer a fight goes on.
And really.. the methodology is sound otherwise, but I think at that point the application isn't really a 'parser' when it comes to DoTs.
Nah, even with Contagion Ifrit parses higher.
The MP cost makes it not worth it. The extremely minimal DPS gain is completely offset by that.
I'm going by MrHappy, who provides a pretty extensive overview here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1BLokxOlU&list=HL1379638689 and regularly posts data that backs up his stuff (and yes he has killed everything on quite a few jobs, he originally thought SMN was overpowered based on Bahamut performance).
demosthenes
Member
I've been kicked 3 times while logging on with 90k.
Now I'm players in queue: 397
Now I'm players in queue: 397
MagicWithEarvin
Member
I've been kicked 3 times while logging on with 90k.
Now I'm players in queue: 397
Every one is just starting to log back in, so give it a few moments
Half the comments on the video is about how Thunder > Ruin and Garuda > Ifrit
BananasWithGuns
Member
Dang that's a pretty good tip. I assume the same would apply for a Scholar as well then? Pop a mind potion before summoning Eos?
demosthenes
Member
Oh? Ohhhhhhhhhh, a maintenance. I just got home, didn't know.
edit: Still happening ._. Grrrrr I just got home from work SE!
Shouta
Member
I agree with Ifrit being better than Garuda for DD purposes
However, thunder is definitely a useful DOT. Same potency for as your normal DOTs and better than a single use of Ruin. if it had a longer cast/recovery time, I'd say not to use it but considering it's the same as any other skill with the only downside being higher MP cost, there really isn't a reason to not substitute 1 ruin for it.
Maintenance ended 23 minutes ago. Its just difficult as hell to log in now. 90000 all over.
That's no parser, that's a Skynet!
aramanKain
Member
NM, got in
demosthenes
Member
Any word on what the maintenance was for?
Alright, I'm picking this game up tonight and looking for tips. I've done some WoW in the past, but I'm really not very knowledgable about MMOs and the like.
My most pressing question: what server should I join? Looks like y'all have guilds (FCs?) set up on a few different servers. Should I just pick one at random, or are some of the guilds and/or servers particularly active? Are any too full for new players?
My most pressing question: what server should I join? Looks like y'all have guilds (FCs?) set up on a few different servers. Should I just pick one at random, or are some of the guilds and/or servers particularly active? Are any too full for new players?
demosthenes
Member
Where do you live? With just guessing I would say you should join Ultros.
Shouta
Member
There's no way, IMO, that Ifrit-egi is worse than Emerald or Garuda unless it needed STR stats but I don't think that'st he case
From a practical use standpoint, the advantage of Garuda is A) Long Range attacks and B) Contagion. However, if you use point A like most do, then you're actually gimping Garuda's damage because she loses out on Shockwave. Ifrit's equivalent skill, Crimson Cyclone is not only higher damage (105 potency vs Shockwave's 90) you also get 3 casts compared to Garuda's 1. Then you have Enkindle and Ifrit's other skills having more damage on them.
that intro cutscene is pretty draining on the eyes man
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