Support NeoGAF

[MagicWithEarvin]

I'm starting to the used to grinding FATEs in Dragonhead... lots of EXP and GC seals to e had up here. Plus, it isn't as crowded as before.

Dragonhead also features the most random shout messages ever - discussions about WoW and people being disappointed with this game. People asking for their nipples to be touched, and then others fighting over a player with the tag "Waifu".

"No, that's my Waifu, bro".

 

[Gritesh]

Oh that, yeah its not combat lag, its just the timing requirement is pretty strict. You have to time just right. The ability has to be pretty early in it's cast meter.

Your comment points exactly to combat lag though.. Shield bash is instant cast and eruption has a cast time. If I shield bash at any time during that cast time even if the cast is at 95 percent it should interrupt. I know there is latency to account for, but being required to use an instant cast interrupt withing the first 50 percent of the cast to be guaranteed it will go off isn't right and points to a flaw in the combat engine.

I'm going to go there with this comment but.... It wasn't like this in WOW and I know this isn't WOW but in this day and age if you want to compete for ownership of the mmo market you need to get things like this right and I guarantee you thesw kinds of things will push people away.

 

[studyguy]

I'm starting to the used to grinding FATEs in Dragonhead... lots of EXP and GC seals to e had up here. Plus, it isn't as crowded as before.

Dragonhead also features the most random shout messages ever - discussions about WoW and people being disappointed with this game. People asking for their nipples to be touched, and then others fighting over a player with the tag "Waifu".

"No, that's my Waifu, bro".

Coerthas leveling feels like it slows down since all the fates are so far off... also yes, a bunch of people talking about an endgame that is still like 20 levels away from where they are. Very odd place.

 

[Mairu]

Cross-server chat is a bad idea. You think gold spammer's are bad now? Just imagine if there was the ability to message anyone on any server. I know where you're coming from, but I do not believe we'll ever see this happen.

You fix this by requiring you to be friends with someone on another server before you can message them, just like how it works in World of Warcraft

 

[Teknoman]

Your comment points exactly to combat lag though.. Shield bash is instant cast and eruption has a cast time. If I shield bash at any time during that cast time even if the cast is at 95 percent it should interrupt. I know there is latency to account for, but being required to use an instant cast interrupt withing the first 50 percent of the cast to be guaranteed it will go off isn't right and points to a flaw in the combat engine.

I'm going to go there with this comment but.... It wasn't like this in WOW and I know this isn't WOW but in this day and age if you want to compete for ownership of the mmo market you need to get things like this right and I guarantee you thesw kinds of things will push people away.

Does it work the same way with players? If an enemy stuns you, but you're close to cast, it activates anyway?

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Coerthas leveling feels like it slows down since all the fates are so far off... also yes, a bunch of people talking about an endgame that is still like 20 levels away from where they are. Very odd place.

Yeah, some of them are quite a ways off, but I'm finding them to be actually interesting.

Also, I've also got mixed feelings about the gear progression in this game. I don't know how to exactly describe it, but it feels like SE is just guiding you towards certain gear - like, it doesn't feel like you're doing it yourself. You guys know what I mean?

 

[demosthenes]

I'm starting to the used to grinding FATEs in Dragonhead... lots of EXP and GC seals to e had up here. Plus, it isn't as crowded as before.

Dragonhead also features the most random shout messages ever - discussions about WoW and people being disappointed with this game. People asking for their nipples to be touched, and then others fighting over a player with the tag "Waifu".

"No, that's my Waifu, bro".

Between DragonHead and Ceruleum Processing Plant Fates (those will take you to 50 if you want) you should be max GC level with extra seals to burn on equips / exp scrolls for gathering / crafting.

 

[erawsd]

I'm confused why they are continually updating two pieces of content, when one makes the other content's progression completely pointless.

Yeah, CT just makes no sense at all to me.

- Its a 24m raid when everything else is 8m.
- They delayed it to make it easier and DF compatible, which suggests this will be their version of WoW's "LFR"... which means it'll likely be a "welfare" loot factory.
- If it has anything above ilvl 70 gear then Dungeons, HM Primals, Crafting, and ToP gear will all be cannibalized.
- They must have a Vote Kick in DF 2.1, WoW's LFR is plagued with people AFKing through the entire thing.

And like you said, I don't see why they would expand on it later if its purpose to to gear you up enough to be able to do BC.

Its all so confusing...

 

[Gritesh]

Does it work the same way with players? If an enemy stuns you, but you're close to cast, it activates anyway?

To be honest I don't know, as a paladin all my combat abilities aren't channeled so I don't know if a stun incoming will lock me out before my cast goes off



On top of everything else I feel like they really have a solid base game here and with a few tweaks and some additions this could be a huge mmo moving forward, but it still needs a lot of work. I don't agree with what WOW has done on all aspects, otherwise I would still be playing it, but there is alot of mmo community experience there to draw from and they did get some things right.

I'm baffles by no vote to kick option in DF

 

[diablos991]

I'm with ya Gritesh. Between animation priority and the laggy server, the game ends up feeling mushy and imprecise.

I'm to the point where every AOE-heavy fight feels more like a dice-roll than anything. Will I get instagibbed even though I'm 20 feet away from the marker by the time the AOE goes off? If I activate my stun when the mob's cast is at 75%, will it stop the attack in time?

Anyway, I hope Francel is fixed by the time I get home. This'll be day 5 for me of being stalled out on the story if not. :[

People need to realize the damage from an enemies AOE is not calculated when the animation is finished.

It registers damage as soon as the AOE marker vanishes. (before the animation even begins)

People seem to think they can wait a second in an AOE before moving, but in reality, they need to cancel whatever they are doing and get the hell out of the AOE marker the second it appears.

Sure it sucks you couldn't get off that last heal or get that last bit of DPS in, but you sure can't do anything once you are dead.

 

[Tarazet]

I burned through 50 leve cards leveling Armorsmith from 20-35. I'm pretty sure I did it wrong.. was just turning in HQ steel ingots over and over, which was cheap and efficient in terms of gil but just used up too many cards. Time to buckle down and make some HQ shields to atone.

 

[studyguy]

Does it work the same way with players? If an enemy stuns you, but you're close to cast, it activates anyway?

For me, I know shieldbash is nearly instant, if not completely. I've never failed to catch a cast with shield bash so long as it isn't resisted. Shield Swipe is by far the fastest cast though. If Pacification is what I need.

Spirits Within however requires something like a 20% cast bar to remain due to the animation. It doesn't register till the first half of the animation is done, which is long as hell. That one I have issues with.

 

[Aureon]

So your telling me melee has another disadvantage.

Why? nearly every class has some bucket spells they can throw for that, honestly.

I'm with ya Gritesh. Between animation priority and the laggy server, the game ends up feeling mushy and imprecise.

I'm to the point where every AOE-heavy fight feels more like a dice-roll than anything. Will I get instagibbed even though I'm 20 feet away from the marker by the time the AOE goes off? If I activate my stun when the mob's cast is at 75%, will it stop the attack in time?

Anyway, I hope Francel is fixed by the time I get home. This'll be day 5 for me of being stalled out on the story if not. :[

For AoE, read above.
This game's lagginess doesn't mean you'll be taking hits you can avoid.
It means you have to take absolutely no risks. 'i'll finish casting and move out' does not exist.

I have no spells with a cast time ><

Instants work, of course.

 

[Aureon]

Quote Is Not Edit

 

[Ultrabum]

Why? nearly every class has some bucket spells they can throw for that, honestly.

I have no spells with a cast time ><

 

[Shouta]

I burned through 50 leve cards leveling Armorsmith from 20-35. I'm pretty sure I did it wrong.. was just turning in HQ steel ingots over and over, which was cheap and efficient in terms of gil but just used up too many cards. Time to buckle down and make some HQ shields to atone.

I went to 50 with like 50-60 levels in Culinarian, from scratch. So yeah, lol. you need to do the leves that are appropriate to your level to get the most XP.

 

[Einbroch]

I burned through 50 leve cards leveling Armorsmith from 20-35. I'm pretty sure I did it wrong.. was just turning in HQ steel ingots over and over, which was cheap and efficient in terms of gil but just used up too many cards. Time to buckle down and make some HQ shields to atone.

This is the best way, IMO. Cards are infinite and automatic, Gil and shards are not (automatic).

 

[studyguy]

People need to realize the damage from an enemies AOE is not calculated when the animation is finished.

It registers damage as soon as the AOE marker vanishes. (before the animation even begins)

People seem to think they can wait a second in an AOE before moving, but in reality, they need to cancel whatever they are doing and get the hell out of the AOE marker the second it appears.

Sure it sucks you couldn't get off that last heal or get that last bit of DPS in, but you sure can't do anything once you are dead.

The cast bar is all I look at to be honest, as a tank, I don't give a damn about the AoE marker or the animation, the cast bar is all that matters. If I see someone was still in the AoE when the cast bar was nearly complete then I usually try to throw a cover on them if I can, but by then they're usually out and dead since they waited far too long. The AoE still seems to stick around while the cast bar finishes.

 

[demosthenes]

I went to 50 with like 50-60 levels in Culinarian, from scratch. So yeah, lol. you need to do the leves that are appropriate to your level to get the most XP.

Wish mining could go that fast @.@

 

[MechaX]

I have come to the realization that if bard was more support and less pew-pew, I would be okay with this. Of course, I kinda wish that the archer had two promote options; one for support (bard) and maybe one solely for DPS (like a class that uses guns or something).

Also, after smooth Brayflox run, I think that the infantry set is the first piece of equipment in the game where I was like "this set actually looks pretty good." Man, does the generic armor sets (at least equipable by all disciples of war) look terrible.

 

[Gritesh]

The cast bar is all I look at to be honest, as a tank, I don't give a damn about the AoE marker or the animation, the cast bar is all that matters. If I see someone was still in the AoE when the cast bar was nearly complete then I usually try to throw a cover on them if I can, but by then they're usually out and dead since they waited far too long. The AoE still seems to stick around while the cast bar finishes.

This exactly this.

I'm not arguing it can be compensated for cause it can and most players are doing it.

But that cast bar is the issue here, it's almost as if the actual ability is activated about a quarter or a second before the cast bar is full. By this time it's too late, your trying to move or bash or whatever but it's too late and you don't make it. It's as if the game registers that the cast bar is complete before it actually is. It needs to be tuned so that after the cast bar has reached 100 percent the game registers this and the damage is dealt, I know the actual animation might take half a second but the actual ''behind the scenes'' ability doesn't register until that bar is at 100 percent, I would say right now the game is saying that the cast timer is compete at something like 95 percent.


If you look at the cast bar and you look at the red indicator on the floor when the bar is at like 90 percent you feel like you have 10 percent of the cast timer to get out, when in actuality you only have about 5 percent at best. Maybe they coded it to reflect Internet latency to compensate or something i don't know but it's there and it's misleading

 

[diablos991]

The cast bar is all I look at to be honest, as a tank, I don't give a damn about the AoE marker or the animation, the cast bar is all that matters. If I see someone was still in the AoE when the cast bar was nearly complete then I usually try to throw a cover on them if I can, but by then they're usually out and dead since they waited far too long. The AoE still seems to stick around while the cast bar finishes.

There-in lies the problem. stop looking at the cast bar and look at the ground.

 

[Taruranto]

I have come to the realization that if bard was more support and less pew-pew, I would be okay with this. Of course, I kinda wish that the archer had two promote options; one for support (bard) and maybe one solely for DPS (like a class that uses guns or something).

Also, after smooth Brayflox run, I think that the infantry set is the first piece of equipment in the game where I was like "this set actually looks pretty good." Man, does the generic armor sets (at least equipable by all disciples of war) look terrible.

I'm guessing the ranger job is coming, eventually.

 

[studyguy]

There-in lies the problem. stop looking at the cast bar and look at the ground.

One assumes a person will look at both.
Move out of the AoE before the cast bar finishes. Not move out of the AoE before an animation finishes or before the AoE disappears. The time between the AoE disappearing and the cast bar finishing is different enough for it to look like you made it when in reality you were still inside while the cast completed.

 

[chickdigger802]

really wish there were dope armor sets before endgame (outside of the rare one). Can there not being something between boreville armor sets and nomura nonsense?

I still haven't used a proper sword on my pld. just daggers and spanking paddles.

 

[demosthenes]

I'm guessing the ranger job is coming, eventually.

I'm curious as to how they'll deal with this. Will they give people a level 50 ranger b/c archer is level 50? Or will they introduce new classes that you have to level up to unlock the job. I assume it will be the latter and only the former if they were to retool a job. Say change Bard into more of a support class but they would have archer also unlock Ranger, you just have to equip the different soul piece.

 

[daveo42]

One assumes a person will look at both.
Move out of the AoE before the cast bar finishes. Not move out of the AoE before an animation finishes or before the AoE disappears. The time between the AoE disappearing and the cast bar finishing is different enough for it to look like you made it when in reality you were still inside while the cast completed.

This doesn't work out well for healers too much since we're more focused on party hp and don't usually target the mob. We can try and rely on battle text window for certain attacks as they pop, though not sure what the delay is between action and text pop.

 

[Gritesh]

All that needs to be done is the AoE marker dissappear when the cast bar is complete and at that exact moment the damage is dealt. If your out of the marker before it dissappears your safe.
It's as if the game leads you to believe that the marker and the cast bar are linked when in actuality there is a very small time difference between the two and the actual damage being dealt being registered in the game.

As mentioned above for healers not being able to rely on the ground marker is another thing. Like I said it's just off

And this leads back to the bashing for interrupt anywhere past the 75 percent of the cast bar being full. Game lag and Internet lag and the hidden time difference between the cast bar being complete and the game itself saying ''ok deal dmg'' plays into that.
To me it just doesn't feel as solid as it could be, it's close but not perfect.. Heh

 

[diablos991]

One assumes a person will look at both.
Move out of the AoE before the cast bar finishes. Not move out of the AoE before an animation finishes or before the AoE disappears. The time between the AoE disappearing and the cast bar finishing is different enough for it to look like you made it when in reality you were still inside while the cast completed.

The whole problem is still solved by moving as soon as anything appears on the ground beneath you.

Every other strategy I have tried to use gets me hit with attacks in the final dungeons.

When things get really tight there is always a predictable and repeatable move pattern so one can anticipate the aoe and not be caught.

 

[Mandoric]

Yeah, CT just makes no sense at all to me.

- Its a 24m raid when everything else is 8m.
- They delayed it to make it easier and DF compatible, which suggests this will be their version of WoW's "LFR"... which means it'll likely be a "welfare" loot factory.
- If it has anything above ilvl 70 gear then Dungeons, HM Primals, Crafting, and ToP gear will all be cannibalized.
- They must have a Vote Kick in DF 2.1, WoW's LFR is plagued with people AFKing through the entire thing.

And like you said, I don't see why they would expand on it later if its purpose to to gear you up enough to be able to do BC.

Its all so confusing...

Story progression (primals/imperials storyline), "standard" endgame dungeon for large groups, "difficult" lowman endgame content for the best/most dedicated.
It's nearly the same pattern as for new 50s where you can 4man Aurum Vale/WP (low rewards), 8man CM (middle rewards, token buy, basically a loot train), or 4man AK (high rewards).

Of course the current dungeons, HM primals, and crafts will be obsoleted. Most of them already -are- obsoleted for the few people willing to skip the ilvl 75,80, and 85 tiers. New ones will be added.

 

[DrDogg]

I'm curious as to how they'll deal with this. Will they give people a level 50 ranger b/c archer is level 50? Or will they introduce new classes that you have to level up to unlock the job. I assume it will be the latter and only the former if they were to retool a job. Say change Bard into more of a support class but they would have archer also unlock Ranger, you just have to equip the different soul piece.

I'm really, really, really, really hoping that they don't just introduce a new job and you get it at 50 automatically by simply questing on the primary class. If they introduce any new classes/jobs, I hope it's the full deal where I have to start at level 1 on a new class and get it to 30 to access the new job.

I could see something like Samurai to Dark Knight, Red Mage to Time Mage, Musketeer to Corsair. I'm okay with any of these, even if they don't quite match 100%, just to avoid getting the instant level 50 job.

People already don't know how to play their jobs due to FATE leveling. I can't imagine how bad it would be if you get instant level 50. And I want my DEDICATED support job. Not this weaker than Corsair thing they've got going on with Bard.

 

[Torquill]

I'm really, really, really, really hoping that they don't just introduce a new job and you get it at 50 automatically by simply questing on the primary class. If they introduce any new classes/jobs, I hope it's the full deal where I have to start at level 1 on a new class and get it to 30 to access the new job.

In all honesty, you'll prolly see both.

 

[Kintaro]

And I want my DEDICATED support job. Not this weaker than Corsair thing they've got going on with Bard.

I really don't think a dedicated support job really fits in this game.

 

[Ultrabum]

In all honesty, you'll prolly see both.

I mean, it's kinda unfair that scholar gets two roles from leveling one class then.

 

[studyguy]

I'm really, really, really, really hoping that they don't just introduce a new job and you get it at 50 automatically by simply questing on the primary class. If they introduce any new classes/jobs, I hope it's the full deal where I have to start at level 1 on a new class and get it to 30 to access the new job.

I could see something like Samurai to Dark Knight, Red Mage to Time Mage, Musketeer to Corsair. I'm okay with any of these, even if they don't quite match 100%, just to avoid getting the instant level 50 job.

People already don't know how to play their jobs due to FATE leveling. I can't imagine how bad it would be if you get instant level 50. And I want my DEDICATED support job. Not this weaker than Corsair thing they've got going on with Bard.

This has always been the case, primary level = job level.

You're forgetting however that a job is useless unless you have the skills for the job.
The job itself will technically be a level 30 class till you go through the job line. A level 50 will have to earn those skills and I would hope that SE provides a sort of tutorial through those quests with new jobs, but whatever. People being mad that new players don't know how to use their jobs has been a problem since 1.0 and burn parties.

 

[dramatis]

One assumes a person will look at both.
Move out of the AoE before the cast bar finishes. Not move out of the AoE before an animation finishes or before the AoE disappears. The time between the AoE disappearing and the cast bar finishing is different enough for it to look like you made it when in reality you were still inside while the cast completed.

I play healer, and keeping locked on the enemy just so I can check his cast bar is not something I should have to do just to avoid enemy aoe.

 

[Ferr986]

People need to realize the damage from an enemies AOE is not calculated when the animation is finished.

It registers damage as soon as the AOE marker vanishes. (before the animation even begins)

People seem to think they can wait a second in an AOE before moving, but in reality, they need to cancel whatever they are doing and get the hell out of the AOE marker the second it appears.

Sure it sucks you couldn't get off that last heal or get that last bit of DPS in, but you sure can't do anything once you are dead.

Sometimes isnt about the player being greedy, is just lag. Thing is the AoE red circles arent always reliable, the enemy cast spell is the only thing half-reliable.
Thats why in Ifrit or Titan HM you have to memorize where the plumes will spawn, so you can avoid them before they even spawn.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4TM1fkCg

 

[Mandoric]

I'm really, really, really, really hoping that they don't just introduce a new job and you get it at 50 automatically by simply questing on the primary class. If they introduce any new classes/jobs, I hope it's the full deal where I have to start at level 1 on a new class and get it to 30 to access the new job.

I could see something like Samurai to Dark Knight, Red Mage to Time Mage, Musketeer to Corsair. I'm okay with any of these, even if they don't quite match 100%, just to avoid getting the instant level 50 job.

People already don't know how to play their jobs due to FATE leveling. I can't imagine how bad it would be if you get instant level 50. And I want my DEDICATED support job. Not this weaker than Corsair thing they've got going on with Bard.

Dev team has already talked about new classes, new jobs, and entirely new things based on having multiple jobs unlocked.

Remember, even if they add a new job to a class its abilities will be locked behind a quest chain.

 

[Alucrid]

Sometimes isnt about the player being greedy, is just lag. Thing is the AoE red circles arent always reliable, the enemy cast spell is the only thing half-reliable.
Thats why in Ifrit or Titan HM you have to memorize where the plumes will spawn, so you can avoid them before they even spawn.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4TM1fkCg

Well, plumes in titan always spawn under people, so I don't see what memorization has to do with getting out of then.

 

[Dragoshi1]

Ugh finally got through Ifrit and every quest afterwards until My Little Chocobo.

I tell my party "go for the nail", and for 4 resets, I'm the only one pounding away at it. I'm a pugilist, and I had a Black and white mage and a warrior with me, yet they didn't connect the nail to ifrit's 1 hit KO move until I spammed it into the chat.



Anyway, how do company seals work and where do I get them? I have my Chocobo license quest, but I have no idea where to start.

 

[Ultrabum]

Well, plumes in titan always spawn under people, so I don't see what memorization has to do with getting out of then.

He meant when. If you know they are coming, start running in a direction in a streight line and you won't get hit, assuming no one else is near you. Bard op lol.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I play healer, and keeping locked on the enemy just so I can check his cast bar is not something I should have to do just to avoid enemy aoe.

IMO there should be a mini cast bar that appears above or below the enemy's name. It's really annoying having to tank multiple targets and also watch for another target's cast bar.

 

[DrDogg]

I really don't think a dedicated support job really fits in this game.

Open up some of the dungeons for support classes. With the damage output of some classes (especially at lower levels), I don't think you'd be losing/changing a lot to add a support class to the party.

Dev team has already talked about new classes, new jobs, and entirely new things based on having multiple jobs unlocked.

Remember, even if they add a new job to a class its abilities will be locked behind a quest chain.

That doesn't solve the problem. The GLA quest chain teaches you how to tank (sort of), and I can count the number of quality tanks I've seen on one hand. If all I have to do to get a new job is complete a few quests, there's a big problem IMO. Since I'd already probably be level 50, those quests would take me all of a few hours if they're anything like what we currently have.

 

[Gritesh]

IMO there should be a mini cast bar that appears above or below the enemy's name. It's really annoying having to tank multiple targets and also watch for another target's cast bar.

The little bars on the left of the screen showing the enemies engaged in the fight should have cast bars on them..

 

[studyguy]

IMO there should be a mini cast bar that appears above or below the enemy's name. It's really annoying having to tank multiple targets and also watch for another target's cast bar.

Once can only hope we get these individual addons when SE releases the UI mod tools down the road. Looking forward to all the terrible UIs people put out along with the helpful ones.

Expect thousands of shitty "classic" FF UIs

 

[Ultrabum]

IMO there should be a mini cast bar that appears above or below the enemy's name. It's really annoying having to tank multiple targets and also watch for another target's cast bar.

There is, it's the focus target bar, no one uses it rofl.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I mean, it's kinda unfair that scholar gets two roles from leveling one class then.

I dunno if I'd call it unfair. It's actually great planning on SE's part because they knew a shitload of people would want to try SMN, and they get to boost the number of healers in the game by making SCH tied to it. They should get another tank class in ASAP and do this so more people have easy access to one.

There is, it's the focus target bar, no one uses it rofl.

Oh jesus, I feel dumb now. I will start doing that then.

And yeah I know it shows the cast bar on the enemy list, but that shit is tiny. I can't look at 50 places on screen at once when I need to check CDs, health bars, enmity list, etc. For now I'll just move the damn thing closer to the middle of the screen.

 

[daveo42]

There is, it's the focus target bar, no one uses it rofl.

Healers though use that though to keep a better eye on MT. I suppose you could use that as a tank to keep an eye on specific adds, though only one at a time.

 

[Riposte]

If there is any problem with having a job instantly at level 50 from leveling a class with another job, it is that job quests are throwaway and forgettable (the very last one maybe being an exception). This is just like virtually every quest in the game that isn't linked to some other form of content (i.e. dungeons or trials). Job quests were meant to be the method of progression for jobs instead of levels, but they were also designed so players can just mash throw them in an quiet evening.

I also question why you would want another class to level in a game that doesn't care about content pre-50 (aside from one's first time going through the main scenario). Want to do even more brainless, broken FATEs? This isn't very much like FFXI, where half the game existed outside endgame and was frequently revisited. They want the game to begin with the endgame. There, you'll be grinding lots for each job, likely be unable to play more than one unless they share sets.

 

[Mandoric]

That doesn't solve the problem. The GLA quest chain teaches you how to tank (sort of), and I can count the number of quality tanks I've seen on one hand. If all I have to do to get a new job is complete a few quests, there's a big problem IMO. Since I'd already probably be level 50, those quests would take me all of a few hours if they're anything like what we currently have.

There's no reason they can't level-cap the quest battles, is there?

And a few hours of questing with gated training missions to get six skills beats the shit out of the WoW/Rift/SWTOR respec model of "talk to a dude by the trainers, get an all-new skillset".

If there is any problem with having a job instantly at level 50 from leveling a class with another job, it is that job quests are throwaway and forgettable (the very last one maybe being an exception). This is just like virtually every quest in the game that isn't linked to some other form of content (i.e. dungeons or trials). Job quests were meant to be the method of progression for jobs instead of levels, but they were also designed so players can just mash throw them in an quiet evening.

I also question why you would want another class to level in a game that doesn't care about content pre-50 (aside from one's first time going through the main scenario). Want to do even more brainless, broken FATEs? This isn't very much like FFXI, where half the game existed outside endgame and was frequently revisited. They want the game to begin with the endgame. There, you'll be grinding lots for each job, likely be unable to play more than one unless they share sets.

I miss the sidegradiness of 11, too, but the endgame... isn't that much worse. INT/MND/leather/chain/plate with significant leather/chain crossover, rather than a 75% unique gearset for most jobs.