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[Aeana]

Lagging while playing as the healer is so awful, I feel so guilty.

I recently installed Leatrix's latency fix, and it's really helped a lot. For any sane person who wants to know exactly what it does before they install it, that info is available here.

 

[Victrix]

Stoneskin is definitely worth being casted whenever there's an opportunity in fights, but as a regular rotation? I'm not so sure. In theory stoneskin will mitigate the same amount on both tanks. While it does provide a bigger shield on WARs, thanks to our +25%hp, it will be destroyed quicker than a PLD, who has a -20% dmg reduction baked into his tank stance. There should be no difference, in terms of how much dmg stoneskin prevents, on either tank.

Mathematically there's zero difference between the two, but in practice in combination between SS and Warrior abilities, the impact on overall incoming damage was dramatic.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about spamming it, nor using as a replacement for regular healing - simply having it as part of the combat rotation where when the Wars hp approaches cap, stoneskin is thrown on, rather than sitting idle or wasting an overheal and it's thrown on at the end of every fight so that it's ready at the start of the next fight.

Trust me, if it it was as simple as 'this WHM is bad/undergeared' I'd notice (I've done runs with WHMs who were slow to cast anything, didn't use regen, didn't use ss, so my health was like a pingpong ball).

But I've done many runs and the consistently smoothest runs healing wise have been SCHs (built in shields + mini heals streaming in from pet), and WHMs using ss and regen.

The thing is, ss lets WHMs 'overheal' without actually overhealing or wasting healing. And if they happen to fire it while Thrill of Battle is up, the effect is even larger.

The side effect of that 'useful overhealing' is dampening the impact of the next incoming round of damage, and with any luck at all with dodges or parries and cooldowns, it lasts longer. Even if it doesn't, it cuts the hits enough that you can promptly use Inner Beast to bounce back up to full or near full.

If the WHM is only casting cure and cure 2 freecasts/hardcasts, not using regen frequently, and not using stoneskin, they can't 'cap' your health, and you never get an easy opportunity to use Inner Beast without wasting the healing.

Heck even Bloodbath is noticeably more useful when it's triggered with stoneskin and regen running when used in conjunction with (always) Berserk and (often) Inner Release (even rarely Unchained, but that's actually long enough of a cooldown that its not up every pull).

Note we're talking a game of inches here - assuming optimal use of stoneskin, regen, beast, bloodbath, and thrill, you're saving say what looks like along the lines of just a few healer GCDs - not that impressive.

But in practice, I've consistently had smoother runs with WHMs that did use it frequently over those that didn't. Mana efficiency just isn't a big deal when you're clearing trash (in a group with good dps, I'll have to stop for TP regen before the WHM needs me to stop for mana regen).

If you're freeing a few gcds for the healer to dps or even idle, damage output is higher, healing threat is lower, and the run is smoother.

Boss fights and serious HM primal battles are something else, it's still useful and important, but on something like HM Titan, I'm simply assuming my WHMs are good enough to be capping and layering ss on when there's an incoming mountain breaker or whatever. If they aren't, you're likely dead anyway even with 7k hp

Look at it this way, say your tank has just 6k hp as a War or 5k hp as a Paladin. Wouldn't you rather your tank has 7k or 6k? When they start fights with ss on, they do, and when ss is used midfight to cap them, they do (when it's used on that 6k war who used Thrill, now they're sitting at 8.5k - that's a lot of health to chew through before they need another heal - on a 7k War they're a hair off 10k).

Stoneskin is slower to cast and less mana efficient than usual cure I/cure II usage, but it is not less efficient when it is used at or near full hp when another cure would be wasted overhealing and threat.

Admittedly, I'm probably writing a lot of words that are already well known to WHMs who read here, and the bad ones who don't use it online aren't going to be changing their habits anyway

 

[Torquill]

For people worried about speed runners in CM and Prae. Remember, you don't need a full group on your side , just the tanks or healers. .

 

[Ultrabum]

I recently installed Leatrix's latency fix, and it's really helped a lot. For any sane person who wants to know exactly what it does before they install it, that info is available here.

Have you tested this in a game that you can actually ping in, such as dota 2?

 

[studyguy]

For people worried about speed runners in CM and Prae. Remember, you don't need a full group on your side , just the tanks or healers. .

Pretty much.
If you take a healer & tank from your FC, you're in command regardless of how the rest of the group whines.

 

[Torquill]

Worst case the others drop but I reckon those are dungeons that get freq "join mid duty" requests.

 

[Aeana]

Have you tested this in a game that you can actually ping in, such as dota 2?

Nope. But I found it that I was able to be safe moving out of things in Titan HM a little later than before, and we got a victory over him after we had another person who kept dying to install it. It makes perfect sense that it works, though. Nagling is something WIndows does to be more efficient, but it is very detrimental for things that require low latency.

 

[J-Rod]

I apply SS at the end of a battle and make sure the pt has it applied in between battles, but using it mid fight just seems like a waste of mp. In cases where it isn't a waste, then it isn't a serious fight anyway and I'd rather use the time applying dots.

 

[knitoe]

Nope. But I found it that I was able to be safe moving out of things in Titan HM a little later than before, and we got a victory over him after we had another person who kept dying to install it. It makes perfect sense that it works, though. Nagling is something WIndows does to be more efficient, but it is very detrimental for things that require low latency.

Yep. Leatrix latency fix and using a lower graphic settings, standard PC or laptop, does really help with lag. I especially notice it during Titan HM phase 5. And, my PC is 2600K@4.5Ghz with SLI Titans running 1440p.

 

[Ultrabum]

Nope. But I found it that I was able to be safe moving out of things in Titan HM a little later than before, and we got a victory over him after we had another person who kept dying to install it. It makes perfect sense that it works, though. Nagling is something WIndows does to be more efficient, but it is very detrimental for things that require low latency.

I will test when I am home and report back.

 

[Torquill]

No one is worried that SE will notice you sending more requests and banning you as a DOS attack?

 

[WolvenOne]

For people worried about speed runners in CM and Prae. Remember, you don't need a full group on your side , just the tanks or healers. .

Yeah, that's good, cause I want to go through those at least once at normal speed, just to get a proper feel for the places.

That, and when people are speed running, they tend not to be terribly social.

 

[squall211]

Perhaps try recruiting in shout in N Than or something?

Edit: Unless you're a healer or a tank. If you're one of those roles, just laugh at them for trying to continue without you.

That's one of the things I like about being a WHM. I'm a nice guy, and I never give anyone any shit if they screw up, because I certainly have messed up enough myself. But if I'm in a group that has people in it that make it a point to berate me or someone else in the group for doing something wrong, I'll wait until they are almost dead, then leave.

 

[J-Rod]

I wish people would use the lfp flag and set their search comment. I miss that about XI.

 

[Ultrabum]

No one is worried that SE will notice you sending more requests and banning you as a DOS attack?

If they ban me, then that's fine. If I can't play without better lag, I'm probably not going to sub. Titan hard mode is a joke currently as I have to start moving before I see it on his cast bar to avoid. I am in NA playing on JP server though, so I am also considering a transfer.

 

[Aeana]

No one is worried that SE will notice you sending more requests and banning you as a DOS attack?

That's not something that will happen, because it's sending an acknowledgement for every packet received. A DOS attack requires much, much, much more than that.

Blizzard actually added the ability to disable nagling in-game to WoW because they recognized the benefits (although their solution isn't as good as doing it at the OS-level as this fix does).

 

[diablos991]

If they ban me, then that's fine. If I can't play without better lag, I'm probably not going to sub. Titan hard mode is a joke currently as I have to start moving before I see it on his cast bar to avoid. I am in NA playing on JP server though, so I am also considering a transfer.

There is a reason every single one of Titan's moves happens in a very specific order.
This is to teach people the skill of learning a boss rotation and anticipating the moves before they happen.

This skill is needed to progress through Bahamut's coil and so Titan functions to weed out those that aren't capable.

 

[Lavalamp1138]

Aww yiss. Beat Qarn with first group. We wiped twice on the first mini-boss and once on the final boss, but I was fortunate enough to be paired up with some patient and awesome players. It was a really thrilling dungeon and I got some awesome loot too!

 

[gokieks]

Putting Stoneskin on the tank when OOC prior to every pull is a complete no-brainer - there's really no room for debate and it should be done every time (unless you're already low on MP and the tank isn't wait for any regen before pulling). I would also say that the same applies to putting it on the WHM him/herself, but that's less important than on the tank.

Usage during combat though is a more tricky question, and I think its usefulness really depends on the skill of both the WHM and the gear/skill of the tank. In a perfect world, where the WHM is aware of how much damage the tank can expect to take from the mobs/boss within a certain time frame, overhealing should not be a big concern at all - personally, I consider the range of roughly 50% - 75% HP for tank as the ideal time to be casting a heal (which heal you cast depends on a lot of other factors, like how much more damage you expect the tank to take during the time it take to cast the next 2 heals, whether any procs are up, whether there's proximity healing required, etc.). In that situation, I would not use Stoneskin during combat, as it's less efficient in both time and mana than Cure I.

Now, if the tank is bad and/or undergeared and often drops from (near) full HP to less than half in the blink of an eye, then Stoneskin can be extremely useful in providing a cushion against any other factors that might prevent you from healing the tank immediately after such a jump (AoE damage to other party members, needing to move to avoid attacks, etc.)

What it comes down to is really this:

Stoneskin is slower to cast and less mana efficient than usual cure I/cure II usage, but it is not less efficient when it is used at or near full hp when another cure would be wasted overhealing and threat.

A good WHM should never be casting another Cure when the tank is at or near full HP in the first place. Unless they know the tank will be taking large amounts of damage before the end of the cast, in which case Cure actually is the better choice.

 

[Ultrabum]

There is a reason every single one of Titan's moves happens in a very specific order.
This is to teach people the skill of learning a boss rotation and anticipating the moves before they happen.

This skill is needed to progress through Bahamut's coil and so Titan functions to weed out those that aren't capable.

1. I have the order memorized and a person I run with does <se.1> before every plume, so thats not the problem.

2. I have seen streams of people doing titan hard mode, that say they wait till they see the plume on the ground, then move, and are able to avoid it 100% of the time. I observe this seeing them get hit 0 times on stream.

3. I am a monk, so to preemptively run around away from other players (as this is one way to die, by running into another players plume) I can't use skills because I have to run away from the boss (where the other players are). When this happens on monk you lose your greased lightning stacks, which makes me lose about 15-30% of my DPS.

4. Even if I made a bot to hit the w key everytime a pixel changed color (for example on the cast bar of titan) that input would not be fast enough to avoid it, it is a server problem.

5. If the lag is intended and balanced, it really shows how overpowered the bard class is, as they can just run around forever and dps at the same rate, by running around they would never even have a change to be hit by the plumes, this shows bad game design, and I wouldn't want to play a game that has such great imbalance.

6. So your argument is that parts of the game simply can't be beaten by people without perfect pings? Seems kinda silly.

 

[adixon]

I recently installed Leatrix's latency fix, and it's really helped a lot. For any sane person who wants to know exactly what it does before they install it, that info is available here.

Thanks for posting, trying this out.

 

[dark_chris]

I love pissing off speed runners when they try to get the people who are in the first time to skip the cutscenes. I say if they wanna watch it, let them, or you will have 2 (or more) people out of battle, as I tend to stick next to people who are running it the first time. They were all "but they will slow us down!" I said, you can either leave or be patient.

 

[Shouta]

A good WHM should never be casting another Cure when the tank is at or near full HP in the first place. Unless they know the tank will be taking large amounts of damage before the end of the cast, in which case Cure actually is the better choice.

Which is why Stoneskin is a better choice at high or full HP. As Victrix points out, it prevents overhealing which means no enmity gained for the healer and provides an additional HP buffer that can't exist normally.

I actually need to level my Conjurer up to 34 so I can pick up Stoneskin for my SCH. I'd like to add it to my rotation for maximum protection. A good crit Adloquium + stoneskin provides a huge protection bonus which give me a bit more freedom to do focus on other things on the field as well.

 

[aceface]

Does anyone know if character creation is still being locked for ultros?

Yes, as of right now Ultros and every NA/EU world but Moogle is open for creation.

It changes on a day/night cycle though. During the day in NA the NA/EU servers are open for creation and the Japanese ones are mostly closed. During the night in NA the NA/EU servers are mostly closed and the Japanese ones are open.

 

[Aeana]

Which is why Stoneskin is a better choice at high or full HP. As Victrix points out, it prevents overhealing which means no enmity gained for the healer and provides an additional HP buffer that can't exist normally.

I actually need to level my Conjurer up to 34 so I can pick up Stoneskin for my SCH. I'd like to add it to my rotation for maximum protection. A good crit Adloquium + stoneskin provides a huge protection bonus which give me a bit more freedom to do focus on other things on the field as well.

Keep in mind that it won't be as good on SCH, though, since CNJ has a trait that boosts the mitigation from 10% HP to 18% HP.

 

[BLCKATK]

2. I have seen streams of people doing titan hard mode, that say they wait till they see the plume on the ground, then move, and are able to avoid it 100% of the time. I observe this seeing them get hit 0 times on stream.

For this point, I just want to say that we stream our attempts all the time whenever I watch them, I can see my character (from our tanks PoV) standing in plumes for seconds before moving out and not being hit, while I know for a fact that I am consistently moving throughout those plumes. So when you are looking on stream just know that latency isn't showing those characters moving, they are usually always moving when plumes spawn.

 

[Teknoman]

There is a reason every single one of Titan's moves happens in a very specific order.
This is to teach people the skill of learning a boss rotation and anticipating the moves before they happen.

This skill is needed to progress through Bahamut's coil and so Titan functions to weed out those that aren't capable.

Yeah thats another thing. It might sound cheesy, but you need to be able to "feel" when the next move will come. Know when to tone down on attacks in preparation for a stun and so on.

 

[Ultrabum]

For this point, I just want to say that we stream our attempts all the time whenever I watch them, I can see my character (from our tanks PoV) standing in plumes for seconds before moving out and not being hit, while I know for a fact that I am consistently moving throughout those plumes. So when you are looking on stream just know that latency isn't showing those characters moving, they are usually always moving when plumes spawn.

Yes, but I'm watching the first person perspective lol, not the other players in the raid.

I have observed the same thing.

 

[Shouta]

Keep in mind that it won't be as good on SCH, though, since CNJ has a trait that boosts the mitigation from 10% HP to 18% HP.

10% is still 500 HP on a 5000 HP though. NOt getting an additional 8% isn't a big deal. The reduced protection is still a boon because it should stack with the bubble from Adloquium. Then there are the other damage reduction skills SCH has as well.

 

[aceface]

How about 'this is my first MMO so I didn't but a keyboard with the game'?

I'll have to get one down the line, I just don't have one right now.

I got a cheap bluetooth keboard on amazon to use with the game on the PS3, it works great. I can't really imagine not being able to type in the game to find parties on the FC, shouting for fate parties and most of all communication in dungeons is critical.

 

[gokieks]

Which is why Stoneskin is a better choice at high or full HP. As Victrix points out, it prevents overhealing which means no enmity gained for the healer and provides an additional HP buffer that can't exist normally.

I think you misread what I said. If the choice was solely between "cast Stoneskin" and "cast Cure" for a (near) full HP tank, then yes, Stoneskin is the better choice. But there's another solution to the overhealing/aggro generation problem caused by casting Cure: not casting Cure. If the gap in tank HP between current and max HP is smaller than the amount that would be restored by Cure, it can and should be taken care of by Regen, followed by a Cure once it actually drops down to non-overheal territory - both skills are more efficient than Stoneskin.

I'm not saying Stoneskin is useless in-combat - I just don't think casting it on the tank every time he is near full health is an efficient use of it at all. Unless you have a tank that freaks out everytime he drops below 50% HP or something, in which case I'd do it just to shut him up. A much better use, IMO, is on DPS ahead of unavoidable party-wide damage, as that gives you a bigger buffer to bring the entire party back up afterward, or to do so in a much more efficient manner (e.g. through Regen instead of Cure).

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I wish people would use the lfp flag and set their search comment. I miss that about XI.

They are adding a group finder "bulletin board" where players will be able to do this and post/search for the duties they need. It will be server specific.

 

[MechaX]

As a PS3 player there are lots of times when I would love to say something, but that implies:

-Pressing Select to go to the chatbox.
-Presing X in the writing field, then Triangle to bring the keyboard which then covers most of my screen.
-Painstakingly type using the directional keys.
-Press Start to finish text input and X again to send the message.

So it's not like I don't want to, but the game doesn't make it any easy for console players.

I usually just type a quick "thx" and call it a day.

I was in your boat and I just buckled down and bought a cheap logitech keyboard last Saturday. From the mid-game and on, being able to communicate quickly becomes more and more helpful (I'm not going to say it's mandatory, but I sure can't imagine getting through some of the recent dungeons without one).

 

[Naar]

Can someone explain how lvl 50 gear works if you lvl sync or go to say a lvl 30 zone?

if you have +10 Strength, do you still get +10 or what?

 

[SleazyC]

Boss fights and serious HM primal battles are something else, it's still useful and important, but on something like HM Titan, I'm simply assuming my WHMs are good enough to be capping and layering ss on when there's an incoming mountain breaker or whatever. If they aren't, you're likely dead anyway even with 7k hp

I've healed WAR's through Titan HM and 7k HP is more than enough to eat a mountain buster without Stoneskin. I try to toss it up there whenever I can but depending on where the raid and the tanks HP is at I'd rather get the tank topped off than throw up a stoneskin.

In Coil for a WAR stoneskin is much more important as they take so much more damage compared to a PLD.

Stoneskin is slower to cast and less mana efficient than usual cure I/cure II usage, but it is not less efficient when it is used at or near full hp when another cure would be wasted overhealing and threat.

In my experience Stoneskin can be great to mitigate some very heavy hits but given the cast time I can usually top the tank off just as quickly without having a stoneskin there.

To me stoneskin is a purely situation skill and something that I'm not sure I would toss into my regular rotation. I've played around with adding it in but on some fights where damage output is so high I feel like taking that time to get stoneskin up allows the tank to drop dangerously low.

 

[SoraanTribal]

Got my #3 Relic now:

Spoiler

Using AF because I like how it looks for the screenshot.

Lalafell POWER!

xD

Gonna stop getting Relics now for a bit. I got WHM, SCH, and PLD now. Could get SMN, but mehhh. Sick of farming tomes, and I still need a lot more for PLD.

 

[BLCKATK]

Yes, but I'm watching the first person perspective lol, not the other players in the raid.

I have observed the same thing.

Ah I see. Well, I just asked the MNK in my FC if they could shed any advice, I'm sure you are familiar with most of this but I know looking at his cast bar for his attacks has really helped me. I know that the MNK in my group tends to halt heavy DPS when it is time for plumes and makes up for it during other times when she doesn't have to worry about possibly slipping up. For after the heart phase, my group always gathers for plumes and as SOON as that cast bar pops we are out of there. However with latency there can be slip ups obviously, but now that we have this down practiced we've been able to clear Titan with no deaths.

Hopefully this helps, sorry if I just reiterated things that you were already familiar with.

 

[diablos991]

1. I have the order memorized and a person I run with does <se.1> before every plume, so thats not the problem.

2. I have seen streams of people doing titan hard mode, that say they wait till they see the plume on the ground, then move, and are able to avoid it 100% of the time. I observe this seeing them get hit 0 times on stream.

3. I am a monk, so to preemptively run around away from other players (as this is one way to die, by running into another players plume) I can't use skills because I have to run away from the boss (where the other players are). When this happens on monk you lose your greased lightning stacks, which makes me lose about 15-30% of my DPS.

4. Even if I made a bot to hit the w key everytime a pixel changed color (for example on the cast bar of titan) that input would not be fast enough to avoid it, it is a server problem.

5. If the lag is intended and balanced, it really shows how overpowered the bard class is, as they can just run around forever and dps at the same rate, by running around they would never even have a change to be hit by the plumes, this shows bad game design, and I wouldn't want to play a game that has such great imbalance.

6. So your argument is that parts of the game simply can't be beaten by people without perfect pings? Seems kinda silly.

You don't have to have perfect ping. If I moved only the second I saw a plume, I would get hit around 50-60% of the time. But I rarely ever get hit by a plume. This is due to a strategy where each character knows where they should be and where they should move to when there is a plume incoming.

Who cares if you lose 15% of your DPS, you lose 100% of your DPS if you are dead.

I am not denying that there is lag, but the fight is plenty beatable even with lag. It just takes a team willing to coordinate and skilled enough to act on that coordination.

Just because a single class excels in a single fight doesn't make them overpowered. Dragoons and monks can run around and DPS as well. If every DPS had the same exact role in fights, that would be even worse game design.

 

[Ferr986]

damn duty finder keeps putting me in finished AK runs!

Got my #3 Relic now:

grats!

and Im still strugging to get mt first one...

 

[diablos991]

damn duty finder keeps putting me in finished AK runs!

Never join a 3/4 run because there are only 3 bosses. Hope they fix that soon.

It will boot that host after 5 minutes so you can try to join-in-progress again after that.

 

[Aeana]

Finally ditched MotioninJoy in favor of the SCP DS3 drivers. I hope this will resolve my bluescreen problem.

 

[Ultrabum]

You don't have to have perfect ping. If I moved only the second I saw a plume, I would get hit around 50-60% of the time. But I rarely ever get hit by a plume. This is due to a strategy where each character knows where they should be and where they should move to when there is a plume.

Who cares if you loose 15% of your DPS, you loose 100% of your DPS if you are dead.

I am not denying that there is lag, but the fight is plenty beatable even with lag. It just takes a team willing to coordinate and skilled enough to act on that coordination.

Just because a single class excels in a single fight doesn't make them overpowered. Dragoons and monks can run around and DPS as well. If every DPS had the same exact role in fights, that would be even worse game design.

Yes, this is true but it especially effects monks because our entire class is based around not dropping the gl stacks, dragons don't get -20% dmg if they run around for 8 seconds.

Also avoiding aoes is a combat mechanic in every fight.

Whelp, installed that lag fix, got hit by 1 plume, and 1 shot Titan hm LOL

 

[Aeana]

Whelp, installed that lag fix, got hit by 1 plume, and 1 shot Titan hm LOL

Grats!

 

[diablos991]

Yes, this is true but it especially effects monks because our entire class is based around not dropping the gl stacks, dragons don't get -20% dmg if they run around for 8 seconds.

Also avoiding aoes is a combat mechanic in every fight.

Whelp, installed that lag fix, got hit by 1 plume, and 1 shot Titan hm LOL

Gratz! Looks like training in the lag prepared you well for performing out of the lag!

 

[QisTopTier]

What lag fix?

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Thanks for the tips on Stoneskin guys, I'm gonna do a better job of using it more often. Of course if someone is undergeared, then that might make things interesting...

 

[goldsoundz]

So I'm thinking of giving ARR a shot this weekend, but I'm having trouble with the launcher. I haven't actually resubscribed yet, but the Launcher is requesting that I enter a CD key (PC version) for this SquareEnix account that I already registered vanilla XIV on. I've tried entering the vanilla XIV key into the launcher, and it correctly tells me that the key has already been registered. Am I having this problem just because I haven't resubscribed yet? I have no idea what's going on.

 

[Ultrabum]

I recently installed Leatrix's latency fix, and it's really helped a lot. For any sane person who wants to know exactly what it does before they install it, that info is available here.

This, I'm not sure how much of a diff it makes, my dota 2 ping did not change significantly. However in ffxiv it seems to have made a difference because I stopped getting hit consistently, maybe it's only 30ms, but it was enough.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

So I'm thinking of giving ARR a shot this weekend, but I'm having trouble with the launcher. I haven't actually resubscribed yet, but the Launcher is requesting that I enter a CD key (PC version) for this SquareEnix account that I already registered vanilla XIV on. I've tried entering the vanilla XIV key into the launcher, and it correctly tells me that the key has already been registered. Am I having this problem just because I haven't resubscribed yet? I have no idea what's going on.

Pretty sure free time is expired for 1.0 players, try going to the account management page and seeing what's up, you may need to subscribe at this point.

 

[elyetis]

This, I'm not sure how much of a diff it makes, my dota 2 ping did not change significantly. However in ffxiv it seems to have made a difference because I stopped getting hit consistently, maybe it's only 30ms, but it was enough.

From what I understand it isn't supposed to change your ping ( so the time it take for the data to get to destination ) , but the frequency at which it send those data.