That wasn't how it was though. One side wanted to fund the government, the other tried to hold that hostage in order to get their agenda (which lost them the last presidential election) passed. It wasn't a simple disagreement on funding programs, the House GOP was trying to play politics with it and hold everyone hostage. It's all on the House GOP and the Tea Party.
US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
- Thread starter Jarmel
- Start date
- Status
That wasn't how it was though. One side wanted to fund the government, the other tried to hold that hostage in order to get their agenda (which lost them the last presidential election) passed. It wasn't a simple disagreement on funding programs, the House GOP was trying to play politics with it and hold everyone hostage. It's all on the House GOP and the Tea Party.
dems passed a continuing resolution, a politically neutral bill which avoids a government shutdown, the republicans passed a continuing resolution which also attached provisions relating to policy matters, particularly the repeal of the PPACA.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=84168461&postcount=573
The republicans are holding the us economy and the federal buudget hostage over a policy issue that has nothing to do with the budget (AGAIN)
We'll see how the first time goes. Then maybe I'll come back one day trying to figure out if dressing up in my fraternities t-shirt, pants with holes, but a sports coat will do it. I'm bringing the coat anyway, because it might be cold in there.
I have an odd definition of fun. Even I don't know what it is sometimes. Unless you mean the case itself wasn't fun. Because that doesn't sound fun...
Does the shutdown mean I can't go to the parks? Or that there'll be nobody working them?
Some areas have gotten smart and taken the power away from politicians but in many areas political party lives and dies by gerrymandering.
Illinois has the most famous district in the country for it. District 4.
Bullshit. The dems have basically buckled to Ryan budget levels and still the tea party dickheads just won't take the win because they want everything and will burn down the whole thing if they don't get it. Add an ineffectual majority leader who is fucking terrified of getting primaried and you have the complete paralysis to move forward you see now.
Messofanego
Banned
Has this ever happened in the UK? I would think liberals and conservatives are not this cutthroat and it would be a bipartisan issue.
Man, what a bunch of babies.
Come to an agreement? The GOP proposal was to put a gun to the head of the government and tell the President and the Democratic Senate to roll back their legislative agenda + give us key parts of our party platform or we pull the trigger. The Democratic Senate passed a clean CR.
Hardly. This is 100% on the republicans. The people have spoken, and they voted for Obama and healthcare. In fact, someone has a post of Bohner saying so himself(back then). This is the republicans, specifically, ignoring the people, and specific information from the president, to fuck with 800k+ people in some lame attempt to make the president look bad, or god knows what.
The entire world knows that The republicans were told that the budget would fail if it contained anything to disarm/reduce the healthcare program. They knew this, and kept on it. The nation has been polled, the general vibe is that no one wants this, and to pass a budget.
edit;
and lol, such a historic thread on gaf. For America, and coolasj19's Jury Duty wardrobe.
CyclopsRock
Member
Another of thread of people complaining that the Republicans aren't democrats, I see!
incidentally, where have all the people that said this wouldn't happen gone?
People are crazy good at seducing people to get married and become citizens from Mexico down here in Texas. It's like a once every two years that thing happens in my family. And it's always some big deal.
Here's a timeline prediction for everyone.
-At first the shutdown will have little effect. Politicians will make statements defending their positions, libertarians will scream "see we told you, the whole public sector was nothing but an expensive illusion - lets close the shop completely"
-Tuesday <-> Friday. The spectacle begins. You will witness federal employees leaving their work places via CNN broadcast. National parks will close their gates. there will be less traffic but no major inconveniences. Both political parties will stand firm. The anxiety won't really kick into high gear as weekend arrives (a time when federal agencies are closed)
-Monday. Political Armageddon begins
There will frustration, panic and anger. People will realize what the shutdown means. Another week without getting paid, without having their documents processed, no nothing.
At this point citizens will wake up from their slumber :
"This is a bad situation. Our restaurant, which is next to a big government building, is completely empty."
"I know Mike, we are getting no action either. The federal agencies are closed and we have no customers. I'm not getting my tax refunds to boot"
"Guys. I'm working in that building and need money to support my family, I can't afford to just do nothing for another week"
As government employees stay home all over the country, people will demand answers from their elected officials. Why are they playing theater instead of governing?
Then it will only take a handful of House republicans to end the situation. How long will it take before they compromise? I'd say less than one day.
-At first the shutdown will have little effect. Politicians will make statements defending their positions, libertarians will scream "see we told you, the whole public sector was nothing but an expensive illusion - lets close the shop completely"
-Tuesday <-> Friday. The spectacle begins. You will witness federal employees leaving their work places via CNN broadcast. National parks will close their gates. there will be less traffic but no major inconveniences. Both political parties will stand firm. The anxiety won't really kick into high gear as weekend arrives (a time when federal agencies are closed)
-Monday. Political Armageddon begins
There will frustration, panic and anger. People will realize what the shutdown means. Another week without getting paid, without having their documents processed, no nothing.
At this point citizens will wake up from their slumber :
"This is a bad situation. Our restaurant, which is next to a big government building, is completely empty."
"I know Mike, we are getting no action either. The federal agencies are closed and we have no customers. I'm not getting my tax refunds to boot"
"Guys. I'm working in that building and need money to support my family, I can't afford to just do nothing for another week"
As government employees stay home all over the country, people will demand answers from their elected officials. Why are they playing theater instead of governing?
Then it will only take a handful of House republicans to end the situation. How long will it take before they compromise? I'd say less than one day.
A bit of anecdotal info:
I'm poor enough to be under the poverty limit of 100% (meaning I don't even reach the poverty line) to get obamacare.
However, because it is a mesh of state and federal shit because some states are vehemently opposed to any universal health care at all, my state doesn't have obamacare at my income level, instead forcing me to use medicaid programs. Well, our state has those, however they are a BITCH to get. It is for the elderly or the poor, and even if you're on your deathbed, almost homeless or homeless, or incapable of helping yourself because you're a fucking invalid it is still a bitch to get.
I tried getting it for my mother when she was DYING and the doctors all said she was dying and they still were like "feh she could work in 6 months, DENIED" (she died like 2 months later) at every fucking time we requested it. (we got a small portion of help from them AFTER she died, thanks for nothing)
Thank you goddamn republicans I fucking hate all of them who are elected into a post where they are getting paid to shit on me. Senator Snow, I hate you with all of my being.
I'm poor enough to be under the poverty limit of 100% (meaning I don't even reach the poverty line) to get obamacare.
However, because it is a mesh of state and federal shit because some states are vehemently opposed to any universal health care at all, my state doesn't have obamacare at my income level, instead forcing me to use medicaid programs. Well, our state has those, however they are a BITCH to get. It is for the elderly or the poor, and even if you're on your deathbed, almost homeless or homeless, or incapable of helping yourself because you're a fucking invalid it is still a bitch to get.
I tried getting it for my mother when she was DYING and the doctors all said she was dying and they still were like "feh she could work in 6 months, DENIED" (she died like 2 months later) at every fucking time we requested it. (we got a small portion of help from them AFTER she died, thanks for nothing)
Thank you goddamn republicans I fucking hate all of them who are elected into a post where they are getting paid to shit on me. Senator Snow, I hate you with all of my being.
Devolution
Member
Happy Anniversary Yosemite
;_;
;_;
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The Republicans in congress are shameful, disgusting and out of their damn minds. I've never seen a more embarrassing group of individuals who really do seem hell bent on the failure of the very country they live in. And these assholes are still getting paid for this shit? This is not even the usual silliness and back and forth between both sides. it's one side deciding that we won't do anything. We want failure. Just fuck it all, and let whatever damage may arise as a result come. And, I have to say, it's fueled by nothing but hatred for a black President. A lot of these people themselves may not feel that way, but because they know a chunk of their constituents feel this way, they're directly responding to that. Yes, we had a shutdown under Clinton also when Gingrich decided to be a complete idiot, but ever since this man has been elected, there has been a lot of things that have been taken to a totally new and unprecedented extreme. Congress has been dysfunctional before, but we've reached a whole new low on this day. The shutdown, while not unprecedented, represents perfectly what the Republican Party's goal has been since Obama has been elected. If they can't have their way, they will do what they can to destroy the country in hopes that people are ignorant enough to blame the President and Democrats. And even when they know that they're the ones who will take the blame for it, they still don't care, because I think there's a clear strategy now to bring the country down and weaken it severely if their demands aren't met.
I would just love nothing more than if we could pass a law where if the government gets shutdown, not only do members of congress not get paid, but they also receive a 40% per individual pay cut across the board whenever the government does start back up. Maybe if we start hitting their pockets and inflicting some serious damage on the amount of money they get for acting like idiots, they might actually fear doing such silly shit all the time. Let's give them a taste of what it's like when they're faced with the very real prospect of their own family being directly impacted in a negative way for the things they do in congress. That's precisely the problem with these people. They don't give a damn about anybody but themselves, so maybe if they had more to lose, they might actually act with some sort of responsibility for a change. Let's not stop there either. Let's strip away the healthcare coverage they get as members of congress, too.
That's fucking terrible. It really is. By Senator Snow, you're not referring to Olympia Snowe, are you? Or are you referring to a state senator from whichever state you live in?
I would just love nothing more than if we could pass a law where if the government gets shutdown, not only do members of congress not get paid, but they also receive a 40% per individual pay cut across the board whenever the government does start back up. Maybe if we start hitting their pockets and inflicting some serious damage on the amount of money they get for acting like idiots, they might actually fear doing such silly shit all the time. Let's give them a taste of what it's like when they're faced with the very real prospect of their own family being directly impacted in a negative way for the things they do in congress. That's precisely the problem with these people. They don't give a damn about anybody but themselves, so maybe if they had more to lose, they might actually act with some sort of responsibility for a change. Let's not stop there either. Let's strip away the healthcare coverage they get as members of congress, too.
That's fucking terrible. It really is. By Senator Snow, you're not referring to Olympia Snowe, are you? Or are you referring to a state senator from whichever state you live in?
timetokill
Banned
So what I'm seeing here is that Democrats are so in love with Obamacare that they're willing to push it through and put potentially hundreds of thousands of people out of work and wreck the economy, all in the name of furthering their socialist agenda.
Totally despicable.
I really wasn't expecting you guys to take me seriously lol... I thought the joke was clear, my bad
Thank you so much for this. Everything seems to be put in perspective here and I finally understand obama care. These seem like good options for lower class people like myself and most of it seems fair enough for the entire public in general (even those making over 200k).
To be honest, parts of it just make matters with the economy worse because it promotes hiring of part time workers over full time ones.
Companies can get around having to pay jack shit by having a small number of full time workers and a ton of part time workers because only full time workers will require benefits.
You had me going up until 'socialist'. Hard to tell sometimes in these thread.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
True, but I think that is more to do with being less of a sticker shock for small businesses.
And in the end it wouldn't be an issue if Obamacare hadn't been partially gutted in the first place. What I mean is, if every state was forced to expand medicaid part time workers would still be better off than they are now, or have ever been.
Messofanego
Banned
"There's a storm coming. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us."
Jorok Goldblade
Member
That's been going on for a long time, though. Now they just have a public enough target to deflect blame from themselves.
I don't think so but generally if a PM can't pass a budget he is expected to step down.
A lot of people could give two shits about federal employees, nor is this a time of year that many Americans are out and about enjoying national parks. The polls are hardly as friendly to the Democrats on this shutdown issue as you would imagine from the usual GAF echo chamber, so I expect this sorry show to last longer than many here would expect. Certainly it's not going to be political chaos in the first week unless there's a major market reaction (which seems dubious).
Worst case, this could roll right up to the debt ceiling debate, which is where you will REALLY see dysfunction on display.
Worst case, this could roll right up to the debt ceiling debate, which is where you will REALLY see dysfunction on display.
Well stocks have already dropped quite a bit, but if they keep at the rate they've been falling we're going to get another bear market and that doesn't just fuck us up, that fucks a lot of countries.
Deride USA all you want, but if USA goes, the global market goes with it.
Not to mention what will happen if they don't raise the debt ceiling soon. If they don't raise it, we will default on our loans basically and the dollar's value will sink.
The arguement against it is "well I don't wanna have MORE debt" but this implies that we have the money to simply pay off our loans any time we wanted. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. We also can't print more money to HAVE the physical money to pay for it because that also devalues the dollar.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Oh god the usda has been shut down. Www.usda.gov we are all going to be eating poop hot dogs come tomorrow afternoon
Should make the republicans happy, keeping big government out.
Having actually worked under a continuing resolution, half of the online stuff being shut down is purely for political theatre. But it is annoying if they try and cripple the data repositories like http://soils.usda.gov/survey/
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I'm expecting at least a 3 to 4 week shutdown. I think these Republicans are that hell bent on damaging the country.
But, you know what? I could be totally underestimating them. Whenever I've done that, they've beaten my expectations. They may go all the way through Christmas.
But, you know what? I could be totally underestimating them. Whenever I've done that, they've beaten my expectations. They may go all the way through Christmas.
Black Mamba
Member
I fully expect the worst from these people.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Guys do I have to go to High School now cause I don't wanna go today. 
Also does this effect the job interview I have today. Or my paycheck for the week? Is anything serious actually happening?
My 17 year old head is confused.
Also does this effect the job interview I have today. Or my paycheck for the week? Is anything serious actually happening?
My 17 year old head is confused.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Jzero
Member
What about his Mr.Nobody?
ObjectiveObserver
Neo Member
Oh, it actually shut down? Wow. I didn't know that was possible..
Seems like the only people who are hurt are normal everyday people? Uh.. can someone explain to an European why this law exists?
Seems like the only people who are hurt are normal everyday people? Uh.. can someone explain to an European why this law exists?
Guys do I have to go to High School now cause I don't wanna go today.
Also does this effect the job interview I have today. Or my paycheck for the week? Is anything serious actually happening?
My 17 year old head is confused.
No, your life will resume as normal.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Stocks have dropped quite a bit? The high for the last 2 years on the Dow was like 15,600 and now it's at 15,200. That's nothing.
Why would you not complain about that if you were a Democrat?
Devolution
Member
Um plenty of tourists visit the parks year round. These things shutting down doesn't just affect us. Imagine you planned a trip to Yosemite for some years now, you're SOL.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Well damn. Better get some sleep then. Thanks for answering my questions, much appreciated!
I'll actually research and get educated on this matter later today when I'm not dead tired.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Holy shit obamas video message to the troops is chilling. It's like something you find in a post apocalyptic video game.
My policy is staying out of political discussions. They only send people running to their idealogical trenches, no one sways anyone one way or another, and you alienate people who don't agree with you.
I just saw a news bit about NASA shutting down because of this. I'm finding it hard to maintain my policy.
Being conservative and having one idea or another about what the government should spend money on or how much it should spend -- That's one thing, and I can respect almost any point of view on that. What the house GOP is doing isn't right. It isn't right.
They say they want to negotiate. My understanding of negotiation and compromise is this: Republicans want stuff they like, Democrats want stuff they like, they get together and work out some kind of deal where both sides sorta kinda get something they like. *That's* negotiation. *That's* compromise.
The continued existence of the government is not a concession to the Democrats. Saying "we get to delay/defund/whatever obamacare; you get to continue to exist" is not a negotiation. That's not how it should work. That's negotiation at gunpoint. That's a threat. That's the same as racing the car towards a cliff and not stopping unless the passenger meets your demands.
I'm so beyond sick of this. NASA is basically shutting down. The mars rover will no longer collect samples or send things back. It's going into standby.
Buffoons in congress hurting real people. Literally halting noble scientific pursuits. And doing all this for absolutely no reason. No reason.
What a shameful day for our country.
I just saw a news bit about NASA shutting down because of this. I'm finding it hard to maintain my policy.
Being conservative and having one idea or another about what the government should spend money on or how much it should spend -- That's one thing, and I can respect almost any point of view on that. What the house GOP is doing isn't right. It isn't right.
They say they want to negotiate. My understanding of negotiation and compromise is this: Republicans want stuff they like, Democrats want stuff they like, they get together and work out some kind of deal where both sides sorta kinda get something they like. *That's* negotiation. *That's* compromise.
The continued existence of the government is not a concession to the Democrats. Saying "we get to delay/defund/whatever obamacare; you get to continue to exist" is not a negotiation. That's not how it should work. That's negotiation at gunpoint. That's a threat. That's the same as racing the car towards a cliff and not stopping unless the passenger meets your demands.
I'm so beyond sick of this. NASA is basically shutting down. The mars rover will no longer collect samples or send things back. It's going into standby.
Buffoons in congress hurting real people. Literally halting noble scientific pursuits. And doing all this for absolutely no reason. No reason.
What a shameful day for our country.
Fongul
Member
Speaking as a U.S. Government worker, I hope that they hash this crap out soon. I can plan on not getting paid for a little while, but I know I cannot count on back pay like last time this happened. I had to leave work early tonight at 12 AM EST & most of my co-workers were actually looking forward to some R&R, unpaid or not. My supervisor was elated that she could take some time off without feeling guilty about getting things done back at the office.
Between the sequester and having my salary frozen for the last three years, it is making private enterprise look that much sweeter...
Between the sequester and having my salary frozen for the last three years, it is making private enterprise look that much sweeter...
So I've already found some crazy people who think this is a good idea.
https://twitter.com/HeidiL_RN
https://twitter.com/HeidiL_RN
I don't even...
TacticalFox88
Banned
Link?
- Status