Hate the bill all you want but the democrats aren't doing a damn thing wrong in this situation.
US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
- Thread starter Jarmel
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Epsilon-delta
Banned
Because you lack empathy which is pretty sad. WIC and veteran benefits are affected as well as the 800,000 federal government workers.
I'm going to have to disagree.
You can have an argument about the pros and cos of the ACA, in fact, we had one, then we had a vote, then we went to the supreme court and now it's the law.
Now it's fine to try and pass legislation to repeal the ACA, in fact, the GOP had over 40 votes trying to do that, but they can't because they don't control the senate.
What they're doing right now is trying to hold the economy hostage, even if you hate Obamacare, that's not justifiable, we have a system of checks and balances, and if you allow a single chamber of congress to get whatever they want or else... you're throwing that out of the window.
Regardless of you feel about the ACA (I'm not a huge fan) or the Democratic party (not a huge fan) this government shutdown is on house Republicans.
Well personally maybe it won't affect you. Back in the 90's when this happened I was young and my father worked for the federal gov't. We didn't know what we were supposed to do and how long it would last. When you have a mortage and bills and much less money coming in, believe me it's not a fun time.
Best case? Our credit rating drops and some people lose some money, though most of those people will of course be the lower and middle class.
Worst case? Complete global economic collapse.
SoldierGryphon
Banned
Other than passing the incredibly unpopular bill in the first place (and using some BS "reconciliation" tactic in the Senate to do it).
SteveWinwood
Member
oh man its so unpopular
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
They got something done, which is a miracle. You should be in awe of the Democrats for performing a miracle.
Weird, the only ones I've seen bitching about it are republicans, and I'm 99% sure they only hate it because OBAMA IS SATAN!!! Didn't Romney try passing a sweeping healthcare law just like this when he was guvna?
They had majority in both houses, I don't see how you can argue that reconciliation is more bullshit than the filibuster that prevented it to be passed with a majority vote, like the founding fathers intended.
Either way, it's besides the point, this is the law of the land now, and the government shutdown doesn't actually do anything to halt their implementation, this is just GOP trying to extort what they couldn't get done through the democratic process (including I remind you, a presidential election).
I love how you blame the democrats first, then the republicans. How quaint.
Batman said:
Yeah guys both sides are the same. I feel so enlightened now. If only the Dems would stop acting like children and allow a minority of House Republicans to steer the debate and destroy their legislative accomplishments for a 3 month CR. Seriously what idiots. Its not like the Republicans would look at this and ask for more in the upcoming debt ceiling fight (you know the fight where one side says give me what I want or I blow up the world economy and plunge the dollar into hell). Such kiddos. Obama should just be the mature adult in the room and just hand over the Presidency.
But seriously it is thinking like this that allows politicians to get way with bullshit like this. They know that large portions of the country and the media aren't paying attention and/or will just reduce it to both sides being at fault and refuse to hold the people actually responsible accountable for their actions. This is the fault of House Republicans 100%. If they want to make changes to the ACA they should follow the legislative process. Demanding changes (to issues that they lost elections on) just so that they will allow the government to continue functioning is bullshit.
Hari Seldon
Member
Clearly the federal experiment of These United States has fucking failed. If the federal government can shut down and it doesn't even effect the average citizen, then somewhere along the line we done goofed.
Federal government shutdown = no one is affected accept federal employees and people that we owe money to
State government shutdown = mass anarchy
Why are we continuing to pretend that a federal government is somehow important.
Completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
If republicans wish to repeal the ACA they can campaign on it once again and hope they attain the necessary numbers to garner a full repeal. Our government is not run on opinion polls. If it was the Supreme Court would never of overturned bans on interracial marriage.
Using a government shutdown to subvert the democratic process and basically hold the nation hostage to force a change to an existing law that's passed all necessary branches of government checks and balances because they couldn't achieve it's repeal through the constitutional process is extortion. Somehow blaming the democrats - even a little bit - who are saying they aren't gonna stand for that type of behavior is mind boggling.
Well, for one, not a lot of tourists will be happy with National Park services closing.
Fuck this false equivalency bullshit. The teabaggers in the House are solely responsible for this mess. Hell even the American public is starting to realize this.
Because it's only discretionary spending that's suspended.
Suspend non-discretionary spending and then come back and say it's not important.
Also, just because it doesn't affect as many people as it could, does not mean it's not important.
HIT AND RUN
It's team mentality. Will be glorious to watch Republicans bend the knee on this.
Fundamental services that we all rely upon on a daily basis, such as the military, postal service, and air traffic control are still functioning.
And just because you don't feel the effects of the shutdown personally doesn't mean it isn't real. Tons of federal workers are being furloughed, the national park system is closed, and WIC and benefits to veterans are being put on hold. The shutdown will have a negative effect on many peoples' lives.
SoldierGryphon
Banned
*sigh*...Republicans really didn't think this one through. They are not very forward thinking of their political tactics. Everyone, including Republican political strategists, told them not to do it. They are going get burned for this.
SteveWinwood
Member
maquiladora
Member
Dow Jones +50 points. No fucks given on Wall St.
diffusionx
Gold Member
No, no reconciliation was used to pass the PPACA.
The PPACA passed by a standard, regular old, 60-39 vote. Straight out of Schoolhouse Rock.
Please base your opinions on facts rather than right-wing lies.
The bill was passed by both houses of a duly elected Congress and then signed by a duly elected President. If people didn't like it, they could vote the people who worked on it out of office and have the new people repeal it. That didn't happen, Republicans do not have the support to change the law or implement their agenda. So they are resorting to destructive and crybaby tactics. It is obscene. Fringe minorities do not get to pass their agenda by taking their ball and going home.
Which is why Boehner should be burned at the stake for this debacle. He had one fucking job, and that was the pass the bill the Senate returned to them without fucking it up.
Even Karl Rove told Republicans it was dumb:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/karl-rove-shutdown-rescue-for-barack-obama-96991.html
You're completely missing the point here. Both sides refuse to compromise on anything. This situation is essentially no different than pretty much any other issue they have faced because the house and senate will not work together to get legislation passed. Both sides are to blame for their inaction because neither side will budge. Is it right that the house is trying to dictate a delay on the rollout of ACA at the expense of its employees? No. Is it right to not budge at all, even in the face of default? No. Both sides are incompetent and if you can't see that, then you've missed several years of late night deals and close calls on issues that should have been reviewed and fixed long ago.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Ah, dude you're saying nonsense
Hell, he didn't even need to whip or vote for it himself. All he had to do was put in on the floor for a vote.
Yup. All he has to do is put a clean CR up for a vote and it will pass.
The Republicans aren't looking for compromise. Someone's been telling you lies.
eBay Huckster
Member
Not to say the generic ballot's holding at D+9, but that kind of popular-vote spread would more than negate the effects of gerrymandering.
I fail to see how "pull the country even further to the right or else the government shuts down" is 1) worthy of the term "compromise" or 2) worthy of consideration as a course of action.
SoldierGryphon
Banned
I am aware of what happened. It went back to the Senate after the House wanted it changed. However, the Republicans just won a major win in Mass, and most people thought it was dead.
So what they agreed upon did was the House passed the Senate bill as long as the Senate used "reconciliation" to do a "fix it" bill.
So yeah, I stand by every word of my post. They used a BS reconciliation tactic to pass it.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
OP doesn't explain much, and I can't be bothered to read through an entire thread of sarcastic comments and snide remarks... What exactly does it mean or what are the effects of the Federal Govt shutting down? Also, has this happened before? If so, what happened then?
Considering the DoD is the largest employer in the country I think the federal government is at least kind important.
Um...did you read what I posted or did you think I'm dumb because I didn't just outright blast republicans for all the issues congress has had over the past several years?
Neither side will compromise...on anything.
They only added provisions exempting themselves and big business from the mandate while sticking it to citizens. "Congress shall make no law blah blah"
Nope. Nothing wrong at all. Totally legit. Republicans probably made them do it, anyway. Its probably a "phony scandal", anyhow.
Is it hilarious if you're the one that loses benefits? Is it hilarious if you're the one not getting paid? It's pretty easy to laugh when you don't feel anything.
Punchy4486
Banned
That ignores the fact that a portion of the people that are "against" it are "against" it because it's not progressive ENOUGH.
That also ignores the polls that say the majority of people, while not entirely satisfied with Obamacare, feel that it's a step in the right direction and/or now that it is law, are willing to see how it works.
Not to mention the fact that most people that oppose Obamacare know next to nothing about it aside from "socialism" and "I'm not paying for other people's health!" and "Papa John is cutting back on hours because Obamacare is making him broke!" but almost universally approve of each of the individual changes when offered on their own without the "Obama" stigma.
Most Americans, however unhappy with Obamacare, don't want to return to the system we used to have, yet the Republicans have offered no alternatives. The majority of Americans also believe that Obamacare isn't an issue worth TURNING OFF THE GOVERNMENT AND POTENTIALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD ECONOMY FOR.
But continue acting like the Republicans are trying to enact the will of the people on this by holding the country hostage and making thinly veiled threats while blackmailing the President of the United States.
I really, really think you're missing or misreading a lot of the information you've received up until now.
The time for compromising on ACA was three years ago when it up for debate for an entire year. Through the normal and legal democratic process, the bill was signed into law and upheld by the Courts. That's it.
If the Republicans don't like it, they are free to win elections and repeal it, not hold the gov't hostage until they get their way. That is entirely UN-democratic. If that becomes the normal process, where the minority gets to veto anything it doesn't like, the government will become no more effective than the UN Security Council.
There is NO equivalency on this issue....ALL of the blame lies with the conservative wing of the Republican party.
I stopped reading when you implied that the Republicans are looking for compromise. You say 'both sides refuse to compromise' which implies that compromise is a possibility for either the GOP or the Dems, but unfortunately the Republicans aren't looking for compromise out of the Dems. In fact, Obama has done nothing BUT try to compromise with the GOP since they gained control of the house in 2010.
Well, it depends on how one worded it.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/27/poll-obamacare-vs-affordable-care-act/
Same law, different names, different results. Another poll basically separated Obamacare into different chunks, just about everyone like all the chunks, but majority hate it when they are put together and called Obamacare.
Democrats: sticking it to citizens... with HEALTH INSURANCE. The horror!
I wish the government would "stick it to us" more often.
RustyNails
Member
If you stopped me on the street and asked me about Obamacare, I would come out against it because I dont think it's progressive enough. But if you ask me if I prefer status quo over Obamacare, then I would say no. I prefer Obamacare over status quo. It all depends on how you phrase the question.
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