US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised

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First of all I work for DHS. I personally don't agree with furloughed employees receiving back pay. If you don't work, you don't get paid, its as simple as that.

Part of the hiring process you go through they make you sign all these documents, basically saying that you understand who you work for and you are accepting the risks.
 
PartyTimeFunTime said:
First of all I work for DHS. I personally don't agree with furloughed employees receiving back pay. If you don't work, you don't get paid, its as simple as that.

Part of the hiring process you go through they make you sign all these documents, basically saying that you understand who you work for and you are accepting the risks.
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Agreed, especially since if this goes on long enough they can collect unemployment too.

If the people who don't have to go to work get paid, then why the hell should I drag my ass into prison to inevitably be paid too?
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
Technically they would since they would be paid with taxpayer money.

Paying people for sitting on their ass is not the answer, and if it is, pay the people who actually go to work more.
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Do you nkokw what percentage of your taxes will be paying for their backpay? Not fucking much. So yeah, it's not coming out of your pocket. You will not be paid less. Don't get angry at the people who have no choice about not being able to work, get angry at the people that caused the problem.
 
Diablos said:
The more I understand how much the Tea Party does not give a shit about the well-being of anyone or anything but themselves in this ordeal, the more appealing it seems that Obama should use the 14th.

#usethe14th
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If it gets to the point that the GOP will not retreat he may have no choice. I believe he will at last resort. Of course, that's going to cause a mess of legal challenges but the one small good thing is we'll get to see more Tea Party tears.
 
Dead Man said:
Do you nkokw what percentage of your taxes will be paying for their backpay? Not fucking much. So yeah, it's not coming out of your pocket. You will not be paid less. Don't get angry at the people who have no choice about not being able to work, get angry at the people that caused the problem.
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balladofwindfishes said:
These people aren't not working by choice. They would like to work, but they can't.

Pay them, it's unfair to do anything else.
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Who's getting angry? I'm simply saying they shouldn't be paid for doing nothing. And for you saying "They would like to go back to work" my feed is flooded with other friends who work for the fed enjoying their "fur-cation" as they call it (furlough vacation). So no, not all of them are that way and yes, they are anticipating to be paid when this is over like the last time it happened so they are essentially getting free vacation while some of us still have to work. I'm simply saying if that happens, those of us still working should be compensated more.

No, it's unfair to not compensate the people who worked through the entire thing equally.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
Technically they would since they would be paid with taxpayer money.

Paying people for sitting on their ass is not the answer, and if it is, pay the people who actually go to work more.
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My wife works for U.S. Fish and Wildlife and WANTS to go to work, but can't because of government douchebaggery. If this thing ends by Monday, she'll be able to at best break even with Paid-Time-Off, otherwise, every day that rolls by that she doesn't get paid is less money coming into our house, and if there's no back pay, then that could very quickly snowball into bad things for our family.

She has going on 20 years working with the fed, I think she deserves to at least be reimbursed for time she would rather be working than not.
 
Cloudy said:
Eh, that's kind of BS for salaried employees IMO
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Who's salaried?

Krakn3Dfx said:
My wife works for U.S. Fish and Wildlife and WANTS to go to work, but can't because of government douchebaggery. If this thing ends by Monday, she'll be able to at best break even with Paid-Time-Off, otherwise, every day that rolls by that she doesn't get paid is less money coming into our house, and if there's no back pay, then that could very quickly snowball into bad things for our family.

She has going on 20 years working with the fed, I think she deserves to at least be reimbursed for time she would rather be working than not.
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You're either lying or you don't know but during this government shut down all vacation/time off/paid time off etc is NIL. So any time you miss even on "paid time off" counts as unpaid furlough.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
Technically they would since they would be paid with taxpayer money.

Paying people for sitting on their ass is not the answer, and if it is, pay the people who actually go to work more.
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Remember when people got paid while being told to stay home during the hurricane? I don't see much difference. In both cases people would work if they could, but forces outside of their control prevented it. They're middle class, salaried employees - many of whom rely on each pay check for things like rent and taking care of their kids. It's also two months until Christmas. I'm sorry, but I find your attitude of "fuck them, I got mine" to be kind of gross. Empathy man, it's not like they're willingly doing this. Blame your Republican congressman if you need a scapegoat.
 
PartyTimeFunTime said:
First of all I work for DHS. I personally don't agree with furloughed employees receiving back pay. If you don't work, you don't get paid, its as simple as that.

Part of the hiring process you go through they make you sign all these documents, basically saying that you understand who you work for and you are accepting the risks.
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That's absurd. It's not their fault congress has been taken hostage. They may have signed documents but that doesn't mean the gov't shouldn't do the right thing.
 
Cloudy said:
They are trying to nullify a law that was was the centerpiece of TWO presidential elections AND a Supreme Court challenge while having just the House majority. And if they don't get their way, they shut down the government. Do you not see how crazy this would be if Obama capitulated?

This funding would be just for 6 weeks. After that, what will they demand next? For him to step down? They might as well if he gives in to this extortion lol. Ther GOP is the bully that won't stop until you punch them in the face...
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For this very reason Obama will not back down and he shouldn't. The very reason he will likely veto anything that isn't clean that passes his desk and why Harry Reid will continue to toss anything the House sends his way so it likely won't even get that. This not a case of the two sides not being able to work together. This is the republicans having lost all sense of reality and being complete and utter evil assholes because they can't get their way. This has been happening for a long time but it's hitting an even higher peak. They don't give a damn about who gets hurt an their own people will and are getting hurt by this too. This isn't about parks being closed. This is about tons of head start programs being closed. Trying to fight battles already fought and them stomping their feet because they didn't get there way.

What makes matters worse is some in the media continuing to try and paint this as a situation where two sides are at fault. No there is only one side at fault here. Though it is somewhat nice to see them be surprised by how forceful the president is being about not negotiating. There is no reason to. Republicans need to stop being stupid and come back to reality. The stupidness of the situation is likely going to get in way of the media's narrative about trying to put some blame on the Obama.
 
Yeah, screw those people who may have bills and rent to pay and who would be working but are not because some Republicans thought getting elected to Congress meant that was their chance to shut the government down.

Those damn freeloaders.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
Who's getting angry? I'm simply saying they shouldn't be paid for doing nothing. And for you saying "They would like to go back to work" my feed is flooded with other friends who work for the fed enjoying their "fur-cation" as they call it (furlough vacation). So no, not all of them are that way and yes, they are anticipating to be paid when this is over like the last time it happened so they are essentially getting free vacation while some of us still have to work. I'm simply saying if that happens, those of us still working should be compensated more.

No, it's unfair to not compensate the people who worked through the entire thing equally.
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So your basing your opinion on some Facebook people making the best out of a miserable situation?

What are they supposed to do, mope around the house all day wishing they were at work?
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
You know what happens when you assume.
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Are you telling me most federal workers are hourly? I guess I learned something new today

Though it is somewhat nice to see them be surprised by how forceful the president is being about not negotiating. There is no reason to
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I get infuriated when I see media folks chiding Obama for not negotiating. There is literally nothing to negotiate in this scenario.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
So your basing your opinion on some Facebook people making the best out of a miserable situation?

What are they supposed to do, mope around the house all day wishing they were at work?
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"Facebook people" are people I actually know in this scenario. You know, as in real life? They just happen to be posting on facebook.

Cloudy said:
Are you telling me most federal workers are hourly? I guess I learned something new today
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Never stop learning.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
Technically they would since they would be paid with taxpayer money.

Paying people for sitting on their ass is not the answer, and if it is, pay the people who actually go to work more.
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You know it probably hurts your pocketbook more to not pay them than to pay them. All those people suddenly not getting paid is not good for the economy.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
"Facebook people" are people I actually know in this scenario. You know, as in real life? They just happen to be posting on facebook.
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That was an empty response

What reaction should they have? Mope around the house acting miserable? Can they be paid then? They can't make the best out of a situation they had no control over?

This sounds an awful lot like saying poor people aren't poor enough to deserve aid because they have air conditioning and Internet access. Maybe these people aren't miserable enough to deserve pay for something they have no control over. Maybe they need to make depressing posts on Twitter and then they deserve back pay.

Give me a break.
 
Who the fuck are these people on about not giving workers back pay?

It's not coming out of your pocket! It's not like if we don't pay them you will magically get five extra dollars back for your return this year. Is it some bullshit notion born out of the bootstrap pulling, welfare queen, precedent setting republican mindset? Where somehow paying these people for the republicans incompetence and selfishness is seen through warped eyes as rewarding undeserving behavior?

And it's not like the lost wages are the breaking point in our debt or that our debt is even a serious concern right now...though with how the tea party is acting we may just see a few more credit downgrades and a general hesitation to purchase treasury notes and then the tea party might just be creating the future they claim they want to prevent.
 
Dax01 said:
Democrats received more votes for the House than the GOP. So, no, technically they weren't outvoted.
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FyreWulff said:
After heavy gerrymandering.

The actual popular vote reflected a Democrat majority in the House. The way the House was redistricted meant your vote was nulled because the republicans attached your Democrat-heavy section of city to the entire rest of the state so all the rural voters votes work together to outweigh yours.
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I don't see why this is something people bring up. You can get more votes and still rightly lose, even without gerrymandering. That statement also assumes democrats don't take part in gerrymandering, which I doubt is the case.

For example, if every democrat who was elected won by a landslide, and every republican won by 5 votes, the democrats would have more votes and less seats. That's how the system works.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
Who's getting angry? I'm simply saying they shouldn't be paid for doing nothing. And for you saying "They would like to go back to work" my feed is flooded with other friends who work for the fed enjoying their "fur-cation" as they call it (furlough vacation). So no, not all of them are that way and yes, they are anticipating to be paid when this is over like the last time it happened so they are essentially getting free vacation while some of us still have to work. I'm simply saying if that happens, those of us still working should be compensated more.

No, it's unfair to not compensate the people who worked through the entire thing equally.
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You are forgetting there are more people who are hurting right now that backpay wouldn't help because it would be too late. So yes, you're angry or bitter because only a fool would take a snapshot of their friends feed and apply that to everyone else' situation that got furloughed.

So you are the type to not have backpay because of a certain few who gloat about their "fur-cation?" Are you sure you're not angry?
 
balladofwindfishes said:
This sounds an awful lot like saying poor people aren't poor enough to deserve aid because they have air conditioning and Internet access. Maybe these people aren't miserable enough to deserve pay for something they have no control over. Maybe they need to make depressing posts on Twitter and then they deserve back pay.

Give me a break.
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Most of them even have REFRIGERATORS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al5E3KbIfeo
 
pj said:
I don't see why this is something people bring up. You can get more votes and still rightly lose, even without gerrymandering. That statement also assumes democrats don't take part in gerrymandering, which I doubt is the case.

For example, if every democrat who was elected won by a landslide, and every republican won by 5 votes, the democrats would have more votes and less seats. That's how the system works.
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:|
 
pj said:
I don't see why this is something people bring up. You can get more votes and still rightly lose, even without gerrymandering. That statement also assumes democrats don't take part in gerrymandering, which I doubt is the case.

For example, if every democrat who was elected won by a landslide, and every republican won by 5 votes, the democrats would have more votes and less seats. That's how the system works.
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Well, I don't understand why you don't see that everybody doesn't think that's right.

NO POLITICAL PARTY, should be able to work the system in their favor like that.
 
PartyTimeFunTime said:
First of all I work for DHS. I personally don't agree with furloughed employees receiving back pay. If you don't work, you don't get paid, its as simple as that.

Part of the hiring process you go through they make you sign all these documents, basically saying that you understand who you work for and you are accepting the risks.
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One of the great achievements of the GOP has been convincing working people to argue against their own best interests.
 
CyclopsRock said:
Yeah, it is crazy, and I don't think they should capitulate, albeit for purely political reasons - the thing I'm taking issue with is the author of that article's assertion that that democracy is at stake, as if the fact that the HoR was won by the Republicans is a mere technicality and doesn't really count. The fact Obama made it a part of two election campaigns doesn't really mean much when all the votes - Pres and the two legislatures - are separate. The author appears to believe that you should "accept the results" but... only when it gives you the result you want.

Edit: to be clear, I'm just criticising the article rather than passing judgement on the actual situation. I don't know enough to contribute.
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That's pretty much the problem here -- your analysis might be reasonable in a normal situation, but this is not a normal situation. Once again, there is no debate that a clean CR would pass the House of Representatives if it was brought to a vote. The issue is that the undemocratic nature of chamber rules is preventing it from being voted on.
 
pj said:
I don't see why this is something people bring up. You can get more votes and still rightly lose, even without gerrymandering. That statement also assumes democrats don't take part in gerrymandering, which I doubt is the case.

For example, if every democrat who was elected won by a landslide, and every republican won by 5 votes, the democrats would have more votes and less seats. That's how the system works.
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The point is that regardless of the fact that they control the house, the majority of the american people voted against them. Do they legally control the house. Yes. Do they have a mandate to shut down down the government with a lopsided bill that fucks with the ACA. Absolutely not.
 
Brolic is merely tunnel visioned and is unable to think from another state of mind. Any "reason" (excuse) is based on his own selfishness. No point in talking to him.
 
Brolic Gaoler said:
Who's salaried?



You're either lying or you don't know but during this government shut down all vacation/time off/paid time off etc is NIL. So any time you miss even on "paid time off" counts as unpaid furlough.
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Not for contractors, it entirely depends on the contracting company.
 
pigeon said:
That's pretty much the problem here -- your analysis might be reasonable in a normal situation, but this is not a normal situation. Once again, there is no debate that a clean CR would pass the House of Representatives if it was brought to a vote. The issue is that the undemocratic nature of chamber rules is preventing it from being voted on.
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There's also the fundamental principle of not having budgetary processes hijacked to extract legislative accomplishments.
 
ascii42 said:
We have to have some sort of designated hourly wage in order to be able to get overtime pay, but that hourly wage is based on our annual salary.
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Then you're still salaried. Most companies do the hourly thing for OT so they don't violate labor laws
 
If I read one more inane Facebook post about how this is everyone's problem and everyone needs to come together to find a solution, I'm going to flip out.
 
BertramCooper said:
If I read one more inane Facebook post about how this is everyone's problem and everyone needs to come together to find a solution, I'm going to flip out.
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Well then get ready to flip. People can't be bothered to find out the details. They just see disagreements and go right to: "Well, they're both acting like children."
 
Bamelin said:
So what happens if the House refuses to budge on this and is willing to keep things closed down for months?
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Riots
Revolution

When the country demand where is the fed when before they blamed the fed for being too big the tea party will die

The longer this goes the further tea party will fall
 
Bamelin said:
So what happens if the House refuses to budge on this and is willing to keep things closed down for months?
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They kiss their retarded party good (and I say that as someone who is more conservative on things).

Every single one of these jackasses needs to be tossed out on their ass and see what it's like in the real world.
 
I know I'm not alone when I say that I'm happy that the President has finally dug his feet into the ground and is refusing to budge. In fact if I were in his shoes I'd take it to the next level and charge the orchestrators of the shutdown with seditious conspiracy. It's high past time we put the ignorant, destructive leaders of the Tea Party movement in their rightful place. They don't call it the bully pulpit for nothing.
 
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