Boehner: Nation on the path to default if Obama doesn't give concessions for ACA
- Thread starter TacticalFox88
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This all the result of a minority wing of the Republican party having outsized influence on the entire party. President Obama cannot back down and negotiate over the ACA with the threat of a credit default being used as leverage against him.
This is blackmail pure and simple. The Republican party is trying to undo the constitutional process. The ACA was passed by congress, signed by the president, and upheld by the supreme court. If Obama gives in he ends his presidency and forever weakens future presidencies.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Notice how he doesn't tell us what exactly Obama or Democrats should be doing to solve the problem besides "just fix it".
Manmademan
Member
That's correct. This is something that does not and has not ever happened. It's breaking the established system of checks and balances to an insane degree.
Again, this is bullshit.
The American population, as a majority, fought for stricter gun laws. There was no sitting back. There were lots of debates about it.
The problem is, just like we're facing here, a minority party (the Tea Party) using underhanded methods and undermining the democratic process to get their way.
so as an outsider looking in, this is really fucked up. where the fuck is american democracy if 90% of the population are for gun control and the NRA can block reform? most people want the ACA and its been voted into law but a small minority can hold you at gun point and sink the economy?
shouldn't you be oranising and amendment to you constitution banning the influence of corporate interest? cause they seem to of hijack your government? that or revolution.
shouldn't you be oranising and amendment to you constitution banning the influence of corporate interest? cause they seem to of hijack your government? that or revolution.
Elaugaufein
Member
Fair enough. Also true. Perhaps its because unlike the things that tend to define the discussion, it's hard to have a debate on those things that makes sense to both sides. Whether or not someone can have an abortion , is a clear and distinct issue that both sides can agree on. In order to talk about the other thing you need to define a lot of abstract ideas in a way that two sides with completely different view points can agree on , otherwise you end up with a debate being eating an apple and the color purple.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't think that "breaking the established system of checks and balances" is the right phrase here. The truth is that a stupid thing like the debt limit was always dependent on decorum. It's a system that served us well when both parties were 'big tents' with a diffuse base of support, but as the parties have polarized over the decades, this sort of thing was probably inevitable. Since the Republicans have gotten more extreme faster, it's no surprise they are the ones pulling this.
Our system is just not equipped to deal with polarized parties.
"banning influence of corporate interest" is impossible, and almost certainly unconstitutional.
To your first point, for about 220 years we had this system where we had two parties which both nonetheless had a wide base of support. Democrats and Republicans both voted for the Civil Rights Act, for example. In a system like this, it makes sense that minority interests would get some measure of protection in the legislative system.
The fact that now we have two parties that are basically completely opposed ideologically, to the point where the most liberal Republican is less liberal than the most conservative Democrat, is just unheard of in our political system.
And a lot of conservative voters seem to think it's worthwhile in order to stop ACA.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Dont be politically correct , this is the best thing Obama has done on the economic front in his entire presidency, stand up to the party of No
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
why not?
We very much should be. The problem is, any amendment like that would be shot down by the same people we want to stop. Until Democrates have a full majority control and grow a good backbone to start protecting the democratic process, it won't happen.
No the whole GOP. 35-40 extremist, the rest are cowards, too chicken shit to stand up to the militants they created .
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
The hope is that enough Republicans get tossed out on their asses next year to send a message that they massively overreached. Already some big conservative PAC donors are sounding reluctant to write the party a check after this shit.
Elaugaufein
Member
The Tea Party is actually corporate interesting biting itself in the nads. They funded a bunch of right wing extremists and built them into a political force on a national level and now that force may crash the economy because now that its off the ground it doesn't need money. Its electoral areas are gerrymandered so much they are utterly safe.
Manmademan
Member
The problem here is that representatives don't answer to 90% of the country. they only answer to their specific constituents, and the VAST majority are in "safe" districts that would take a miracle for them to be voted out of.
Congress has an approval rate of somewhere around 10%. 10%! this is insane. down there with literal communism. communism is more popular than congress right now. But ask if they like their specific representative, and they largely approve. it's everyone ELSE that's the problem. Incumbents also enjoy a huge advantage because voters in general don't care about congressional races (because they don't really understand what congress does) and either don't vote, or vote for the name that's familiar- barring a catastophe.
It became pointless in the 1970s
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...nt-to-abolish-the-debt-ceiling-join-the-club/
Well, when you've been fed for years by the conservative media and GOP politicians that ACA is the worst thing to ever happen to America...ever, that ACA has death panels, that ACA is the single greatest threat to American freedom, then breaking checks and balances to save the country from the vast socialist threat is completely reasonable.
InsaneZero
Member
The problem here is that a party was voted in but they weren't able to fail or succeed on their own merits or accomplish an agenda because a minority in the other party decided that they didn't like that they weren't getting what they wanted.
And the majority of them don't have any fucking idea what the ACA actually is or does. We aren't a direct democracy and uninformed/bigoted voters don't get to bring down the rest of the country.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
When it's between shutting down the government or stopping elderly citizens from being euthanized by some bureaucratic process (something a large number of these people genuinely believe) then I guess the choice is easy for them.
equippedwithtowel
Member
Execpt they're just cutting out the middleman and offsetting the responsibility for the shutdown as well.
If you create enough messages you don't really need principle.
massivekettle
Member
Appears to me that the American democratic system needs retooling; the House simply holds too much power it seems. Why bother with the Senate and the White House when all you can do is put pencils down and shut down the Government?
Manmademan
Member
House republicans didn't shut down the government over the debt limit, they shut it down over the ACA, a law passed that they do not like, but do not have the support to actually do anything about. The debt limit is a completely different issue. Right now we have no BUDGET, the debt ceiling is something else entirely.
absolutely not-
Voters oppose shutting down the government to stop Obamacare by a 3 to 1 margin
House republicans just want you to think a lot of voters do. the reality is a lot different.
to put that into context,
37% of voters think Global Warming is a hoax
21% think a UFO crashed in Roswell
28% of voters believe secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government, or New World Order.
28% of voters believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attack
14% of voters believe in Bigfoot
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/04/conspiracy-theory-poll-results-.html
22% is basically the lunatic fringe- about the same amount that approved of the job Bush was doing when he left office. they're in favor of ANYTHING as long as democrats oppose it.
Yes. Fillibustering and this kind of bull needs to be nipped out. Congress should not be allowed to just up and leave and say "We're not doing anything so you can all suck it."
The Democratic Party has done nothing but give concessions to the GOP. The Affordable Care Act, with the mandate and everything, came from the Republicans themselves - it was their plan. They just can't take 'yes' for an answer. Same goes for this budget, which is far closer to their Ryan budget than it is to the one the Dems originally put forward. The GOP is taking advantage of the average American's ignorance and the news media's lack of journalistic integrity.
Which is exactly why we need more of this in the real news:
Sad when HBO gets it more right than CNN.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
What I don't get either is if they think the ACA is so bad, leave it be and let it fail on its own accord and let the dems look bad.
JetBlackPanda
Member
They are scared of it being even a little successful. They know social programs are almost impossible to reverse once they are up and running.
They are scared shitless.. They have bet the farm on this thing.
Elfforkusu
Member
Bull. Shit. Blame Obama for any number of other things that are actually his fault -- there's no shortage.
This is a manufactured crisis by the GOP, plain and simple. It's outrageous that in the modern age the world economy can be threatened so completely by a few lunatics with a distorted world view.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
the fear is that it will work, not that it wont.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
It does not count. Those who voted for Obama are captive votes, people enslaved by entitlements on which their lifestyle depends.
Only true American freemen should vote.
Luckily the mighty Republican is working on voter ID laws and other measures to ensure only those who should will vote.
That would be the reasonable position to take if they truly felt ACA is the abomination they say it is. But given the fact that they don't even want the law enacted, it 's reasonable to say that they know ACA is very likely to be successful. And once it is, they can't repeal it.
And this is the Republican party in a nutshell. Fear of change. Fear that maybe, just maybe, the liberals are right after all and change is necessary to move the country forward.
Heaven forbid they want what's right for the country.
No, I thinks more like they are stupid raving lunatics. They dont want it implemented because they think its evil. And you crush evil, not let it be implemented and destroy itself. This whole mess should be a pretty clear indication that the tea party knows nothing of tactics or strategy and bases all their decisions on inflexible principles
I guess they don't know how insurance works or that the tax payers are already paying for the medical care of the uninsured.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
That's a very verbose way of telling us that you don't know what you're talking about.
The absolute truth is this: If the ACA is bad policy then it would be proven just by going into effect. For example, people would get unhealthier, more people would get sick and not get treated, people would drown under the burden of medical expenses and debt, the deficit would balloon, and people would drop out of exchanges and protest government.
But this isn't true. If fully implemented, the American people will benefit and realize that the democrats were right. This is what republicans fear which is why they are trying to fuck up implementation as much as possible. If the ACA succeeds the republican party loses. And if implemented fully, the ACA will succeed. Despite all the compromises, and not being ideal, the ACA is still sound policy.
Manmademan
Member
This is also a very good point, and scarily accurate.
Yep. He gets a free pass here. I've given him one and I am the ultimate authority on this.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Free pass?? You mean standing strong with the law and the democratic process? You people are fucking crazy.
There we go.
polyh3dron
Banned
They may have passed it democratically, but they didn't pass it republicanly.
Obama gave a free cell phone, free health care and forgave my underwater mortgage all at the expense of those taxpayer suckers.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I don't think I've ever seen a guy come into a thread spouting pure ignorance and get downright trumped on like this.
polyh3dron
Banned
looooool the creator of that has no idea how insurance works
It's actually been happening a lot with this incident.
I've got a few months worth of canned food and water and the complete works of Douglas Adams. I'm good!
Fallout from this is gonna be great. Maybe even get immigration and climate change reform done after 2014.
That is, as long as we aren't busy trying to save the country from economic ruin.
At any rate, fuck these guys. They are trying to make a hostile takeover of the government. If you can't rig it, steal it by force. That's the new republican way.
That is, as long as we aren't busy trying to save the country from economic ruin.
At any rate, fuck these guys. They are trying to make a hostile takeover of the government. If you can't rig it, steal it by force. That's the new republican way.
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