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US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised

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XenodudeX said:
Still have a feeling he might agree to a few cuts to reopen the government
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I know the overwhelming lean is that he shouldn't negotiate at all, and this should have been taken care of months ago...but would it hurt for Obama to exempt the individual mandate for a year like he did with businesses? That would kill the one Tea Party talking point that actually has merit, and would probably help the transition more than hurt. It would reduce the volume of applicants to those who need it/want it and help keep the system from getting overloaded. Aren't the first year fines pretty small and more token than true motivation to sign up?
 
metalslimer said:
Also I can't believe polls are showing people actually blame everyone for this situation. At this point, I've already accepted the default is coming
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There is really nothing unbelievable about that. A lot of people can't be bothered to find out what's going on. All they know is fighting + Washington = Everyone's fault.

PrivateWHudson said:
I know the overwhelming lean is that he shouldn't negotiate at all, and this should have been taken care of months ago...but would it hurt for Obama to exempt the individual mandate for a year like he did with businesses? That would kill the one Tea Party talking point that actually has merit, and would probably help the transition more than hurt. It would reduce the volume of applicants to those who need it/want it and help keep the system from getting overloaded. Aren't the first year fines pretty small and more token than true motivation to sign up?
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No, they made this mistake last time in 2011. That's why we're here now. If they think they can get concessions for doing these things, they're going to demand more and more. The things they threaten effect EVERYBODY, not just Dems or Reps. They can't be rewarded for attempted sabotage or things are going to get really bad in this country.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
I know the overwhelming lean is that he shouldn't negotiate at all, and this should have been taken care of months ago...but would it hurt for Obama to exempt the individual mandate for a year like he did with businesses? That would kill the one Tea Party talking point that actually has merit, and would probably help the transition more than hurt. It would reduce the volume of applicants to those who need it/want it and help keep the system from getting overloaded. Aren't the first year fines pretty small and more token than true motivation to sign up?
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And what happens in a year, when Republicans still consider Obamacare the embodiment of evil? Hell, what happens in a couple weeks when they decide that hostage taking worked out pretty well for them?

Fuck them. Not an inch.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
I know the overwhelming lean is that he shouldn't negotiate at all, and this should have been taken care of months ago...but would it hurt for Obama to exempt the individual mandate for a year like he did with businesses? That would kill the one Tea Party talking point that actually has merit, and would probably help the transition more than hurt. It would reduce the volume of applicants to those who need it/want it and help keep the system from getting overloaded. Aren't the first year fines pretty small and more token than true motivation to sign up?
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Yes, because the mandate is needed for the ACA to function properly. The republicans know this and the ACA would be a disaster without the individual mandate. ANd that's why they want to get rid of it.

Look, I'm sorry, I think this entire play of "We just want to have a conversation" reminds me of the temper tantrums my 8 year old threw when he was 5 and we told him we weren't doing something because of his behavior. It's literally the same thing. The republicans have had 3 fucking years to deal with this, and they're willing to destroy our economy because they're children. It's incredibly asinine and it's literally them throwing a temper tantrum because they can't get their way.
 
demon said:
Why are people talking about free xboxes. I can't watch it...
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He compared what Republicans are doing to buying a house and demanding that the sellers also throw in a car and an Xbox or threatening to burn it down if the sellers don't comply.
 
cdkee said:
He compared what Republicans are doing to buying a house and demanding that the sellers also throw in a car and an Xbox or threatening to burn it down if the sellers don't comply.
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Oh boy. The Republicans are going to explode in anger. So basically this is the "enough is enough" speech we've all been hoping Obama would give?

Man oh man the Speaker is fucked now.
 
Bamelin said:
Oh boy. The Republicans are going to explode in anger. So basically this is the "enough is enough" speech we've all been hoping Obama would give?

Man oh man the Speaker is fucked now.
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If I was Obama I'd have Boner standing there with me and see if he could respond in front of a live audience, with no script. Straight up make him cry again.
 
RoninChaos said:
Yes, because the mandate is needed for the ACA to function properly. The republicans know this and the ACA would be a disaster without the individual mandate. ANd that's why they want to get rid of it.

Look, I'm sorry, I think this entire play of "We just want to have a conversation" reminds me of the temper tantrums my 8 year old threw when he was 5 and we told him we weren't doing something because of his behavior. It's literally the same thing. The republicans have had 3 fucking years to deal with this, and they're willing to destroy our economy because they're children. It's incredibly asinine and it's literally them throwing a temper tantrum because they can't get their way.
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Tantrum aside (I agree, politically he shouldn't do it), how much would extending the Mandate out one year hurt? Just winging the numbers, but if there are 30MM uninsured, half want to be insured that leave 15MM. Out of that, 10MM will fall under the expanded Medicaid and say 2MM will either find a loophole, or just not have enough in their return to pay the fine. So what, maybe 3MM would really fall under the forced to get insurance umbrella. Is that worth the trouble for just a year? Or are my numbers way the fuck off?
 
I assumed he was angry as I am watching the address vicariously through this thread. He went the folksy route instead eh?

I'm guessing he's trying to look both firm but also reconciliatory at the same time.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Tantrum aside (I agree, politically he shouldn't do it), how much would extending the Mandate out one year hurt? Just winging the numbers, but if there are 30MM uninsured, half want to be insured that leave 15MM. Out of that, 10MM will fall under the expanded Medicaid and say 2MM will either find a loophole, or just not have enough in their return to pay the fine. So what, maybe 3MM would really fall under the forced to get insurance umbrella. Is that worth the trouble for just a year? Or are my numbers way the fuck off?
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The law falls apart without the Mandate. Costs will spiral out of control. We've seen it happen at the state level. It's why Roberts didn't let it get killed.
 
Bamelin said:
I assumed he was angry as I am watching the address vicariously through this thread. He went the folksy route instead eh?

I'm guessing he's trying to look both firm but also reconciliatory at the same time.
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Given how sensitive racial politics are in the US. He can't get too angry. Sad but true.
 
kirblar said:
The law falls apart without the Mandate. Costs will spiral out of control. We've seen it happen at the state level. It's why Roberts didn't let it get killed.
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Just for one year? If businesses get a pass for a year, why won't it fall apart there? If that part isn't necessary, why is it there at all? [/show me the receipts]

edit:
White Man said:
It would hurt because the Republicans would have confirmation that they could pull the same stunt next year.
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Too late for it now, but why not agree to it earlier in his 20 previous negotiations? I just feel that it's a good point that he was willing to bend the law for business and not for the people.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Just for one year? If businesses get a pass for a year, why won't it fall apart there? If that part isn't necessary, why is it there at all? [/show me the receipts]
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As I understand it, the individual mandate is what makes the exchanges work. You need to require all healthy people to buy in, in order to control costs, or else you'd have only sick people trying to get insurance and thus the exchanges would only pay out for treatment.

This is to say nothing of how literally no one believes the GOP will allow an orderly implementation of the mandate in the middle of mid-term elections.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Just for one year? If businesses get a pass for a year, why won't it fall apart there? If that part isn't necessary, why is it there at all? [/show me the receipts]

edit:


Too late for it now, but why not agree to it earlier in his 20 previous negotiations? I just feel that it's a good point that he was willing to bend the law for business and not for the people.
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Because the exchanges don't work without healthy people enrolling, which they have no reason to do if there's no penalty. Without the individual mandate, there is no reform.
 
Did he say he is willing to pass a short term budget? Thought that was something he had ruled out before. Might be the way towards to a solution, for now anyway.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Just for one year? If businesses get a pass for a year, why won't it fall apart there? If that part isn't necessary, why is it there at all? [/show me the receipts]

edit:


Too late for it now, but why not agree to it earlier in his 20 previous negotiations? I just feel that it's a good point that he was willing to bend the law for business and not for the people.
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The exemption from the IRS was made for practical reasons. How does that relate in any way to delaying the implementation of the individual mandate to appease political ideology?
 
The Technomancer said:
God he seems so frustrated. He's almost talking down now, trying to explain "The default would be a bad thing, do you understand?"
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He does. I prefer the angrier immovable object Obama but he is successfully conveying the desperation of this situation at least. "It makes me nervous" sounded pretty genuine to me.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Tantrum aside (I agree, politically he shouldn't do it), how much would extending the Mandate out one year hurt? Just winging the numbers, but if there are 30MM uninsured, half want to be insured that leave 15MM. Out of that, 10MM will fall under the expanded Medicaid and say 2MM will either find a loophole, or just not have enough in their return to pay the fine. So what, maybe 3MM would really fall under the forced to get insurance umbrella. Is that worth the trouble for just a year? Or are my numbers way the fuck off?
Click to expand...

Compromise would forever reshape government. Republicans could just refuse to raise the debt ceiling to get whatever they wanted.

it's about time bams halted the fuckball republicans have been playing. I don't want to see an ounce of compromise.
 
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