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US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised

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newshinycd said:
I said the same thing about a government shutdown. Don't underestimate the sheer stupidity of Boehner and Co.
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Shutdown is nothing compared to the shitstorm a default would bring. Any GOP member interested in re-election or having a Republican president in office again sometime in the next 20 years won't want a default. So default won't happen, some of those Tea Party guys would probably be happy to see it happen though.
 
Trey said:
Boehner understands it, and enough House Republicans understand it. Put a clean CR to a vote and it will pass.
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Boehner doesn't want to do that though.

Nothing about the Tea Party is going to change in the next 9 days. They're too entrenched in crazy to suddenly come to their senses. And if Boehner's concern is always how the tea party will react to his decisions, then he's never going to put that clean CR up.
 
could've answered the individual funding bills question better by pointing out that there are necessary functions that nobody misses, like the IRS. You can't leave those employees holding the bag with nobody demanding an end to the shutdown
 
of course the fat little Fox News weasel uses "military families"

Watching him through the presser is amazing. It's like a class clown in middle school that no one actually likes. He's constantly giggling to himself and looking at his colleagues for approval, but they all ignore him like the human shit stain he is.
 
Black Mamba said:
As I keep explaining.

The employer mandate roughly covers 1% of the entire labor force. That's it. Very few businesses are actually subject to being affected by it. It is an inconsequential and almost useless part of the ACA. The delay was done because those few businesses were having a bit of trouble complying on time for the admin threw them a bone.

On the flip side, the individual mandate makes up 95% of the ACA. Without it, the law falls apart. The insurance industry would be a mess, as well. Their actuaries set prices based on the fact that the mandate exists. Without it, many people will simply not get insurance until they get sick. This drives prices up, enormously. Don't believe me? Look at NY. Their have similar laws to the ACA without the mandate and their individual market for healthy people starts at like $1k per month. Only about 6k people in the entire state have individual insurance as a result!

So arguing that the individual mandate should be delayed a year as reasonable is absurd. Without it, the entire law fails. The GOP knows this and that's why they are messaging it. If Obama delays the mandate, the ACA will fail and everyone will see it fail.

It's a bullshit underhanded way of crippling the law.
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Didn't realize that the Employer Mandate is only 1% of the workforce... that said if 17% of Americans are uninsured now, and say half of that signs up voluntarily, then we're down to 8.5%. If half of them fall under the expanded Medicare, that's 4.25% and knock off a couple of percent for the people that just won't buy in regardless of the fine and where are we at... roughly 2%. So yeah, 97% isn't too far away from 1%.
 
Blader said:
Boehner doesn't want to do that though.

Nothing about the Tea Party is going to change in the next 9 days. They're too entrenched in crazy to suddenly come to their senses. And if Boehner's concern is always how the tea party will react to his decisions, then he's never going to put that clean CR up.
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He will when the markets shift and the pressure mounts.
 
Zeke said:
I made the mistake of reading the comments my brain hates me right now. There were actually some people believing the dems are in a downfall smh
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Of course, who else voted these lunatics into office? I don't think many people realize just how stupid a significant chunk of this country is...and how scary that is.
 
In a negotiation, you always want the other party to think you're just a little crazier than they are. At least, that's how I got my neighbors dog to stop pooping on my lawn......
 
kirblar said:
The bill falls apart without the individual mandate. Her background is law and political office, and she's essentially an administrator. I'm not surprised she's fall apart when pressed on the economics of it as it's not actually her background, and the debate over that part's actually been long over.
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But what Stewart was asking is why the employers were allowed to get out of it for a year. Why cut them a break but individuals get no such waiver? Despite the corporate whining and lobbying that made it happen, and maybe even justifies it, where's the legislative authority in the bill to simply decide to only partially implement the law? If there is language in the bill that allows the government to only implement and enforce it only to the extent it wishes then I stand corrected, but the executive branch really isn't supposed to apply discretion and choose what parts of laws they want to enforce (although it seems to be a common theme in the news recently, on other issues as well). If the current administration can suspend the employer mandate as a matter of policy, then why couldn't a future republican administration suspend both mandates the same way?


Neuromancer said:
Obama crushed that press conference. It'll be interesting to see if it has any effect on public opinion.
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There was a press conference?


.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Didn't realize that the Employer Mandate is only 1% of the workforce... that said if 17% of Americans are uninsured now, and say half of that signs up voluntarily, then we're down to 8.5%. If half of them fall under the expanded Medicare, that's 4.25% and knock off a couple of percent for the people that just won't buy in regardless of the fine and where are we at... roughly 2%. So yeah, 97% isn't too far away from 1%.
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Yeah, that's not how it works and your numbers are way off.

We're also talking about private insurance companies dealing with the individual market. The rates can triple or quadruple without the mandate. Furthermore, if people are locked in a current prices and the mandate is delayed, the insurance industry without cover could literally collapse.

The employer mandate affects maybe 1.5 million people. The individual mandate over 20 million. And employer insurance market is completely different animal.
 
Bodacious said:
But what Stewart was asking is why the employers were allowed to get out of it for a year. Why cut them a break but individuals get no such waiver? Despite the corporate whining and lobbying that made it happen, and maybe even justifies it, where's the legislative authority in the bill to simply decide to only partially implement the law? If there is language in the bill that allows the government to only implement and enforce it only to the extent it wishes then I stand corrected, but the executive branch really isn't supposed to apply discretion and choose what parts of laws they want to enforce (although it seems to be a common theme in the news recently, on other issues as well). If the current administration can suspend the employer mandate as a matter of policy, then why couldn't a future republican administration suspend both mandates the same way?
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Because the endgame of the bill is to sever the link between employment and insurance.

We actually don't care anymore if they provide insurance or if they don't. It's just effectively a pay cut to people if they don't provide it and don't make up the money gap.
 
Neuromancer said:
Obama crushed that press conference. It'll be interesting to see if it has any effect on public opinion.
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about that...

raizenboyz 2 minutes ago
did everyone get the last of the speech where obama literally says that he is congress' boss???!!!!!!!!!!!???? OOOOPPSSS THERE IT IS! STAND YOUR GROUND REPUBLICANS...HIS NEXT STEP IS FAR MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE ONES HE HAS DONE SO FAR

stogie8988 1 minute ago
PRESIDENT amabo had all the questions and answers prepared to day.......and he gives 3-6 min. answers so he is limited to the number of dumb questions and answers he has to give.....

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FailureInChief 1 minute ago
Obama's Shutdown is a walk in the park. Why stop now?
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Fox news comments almost made me dizzy.
 
It seems like if 18 no-name, moderate Republican congressmen signed a discharge petition along with the dems, they'd be thrust onto the national stage. Might be good for business to defy the party.
 
kirblar said:
Because the endgame of the bill is to sever the link between employment and insurance.

We actually don't care anymore if they provide insurance or if they don't. It's just effectively a pay cut to people if they don't provide it and don't make up the money gap.
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That's a pragmatic response. But it doesn't address the legal authority issue, nor the potential precedent it sets for the executive branch to nullify or ignore laws, in part or in whole, which are inconvenient or ideologically inconsistent with the current administration's platform.
 
I think Obama did a good job with his press conference and had me hopeful until CNN had a rebuttal from a Florida Rep (R) and his comments. They just don't get it. Too much ego invested now, how can the Republicans "save face" before we default?
 
Bodacious said:
That's a pragmatic response. But it doesn't address the legal authority issue, nor the potential precedent it sets for the executive branch to nullify or ignore laws, in part or in whole, which are inconvenient or ideologically inconsistent with the current administration's platform.
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Admins have been ignoring/not enforcing laws since forever.
 
KHarvey16 said:
The exemption from the IRS was made for practical reasons. How does that relate in any way to delaying the implementation of the individual mandate to appease political ideology?
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The idea (not that I agree with it) is that it will force people into the exchanges; their employers aren't required to provide coverage, individuals are, so they purchase from the exchange.

As an extension of that, the "fear" is that once enough people are on the exchanges, they become viable, and then we're on a slippery slope to single payer... somehow.
 
Black Mamba said:
Yeah, that's not how it works and your numbers are way off.

We're also talking about private insurance companies dealing with the individual market. The rates can triple or quadruple without the mandate. Furthermore, if people are locked in a current prices and the mandate is delayed, the insurance industry without cover could literally collapse.

The employer mandate affects maybe 1.5 million people. The individual mandate over 20 million. And employer insurance market is completely different animal.
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I'm okay with the bolded. Are there any projections as to how many people will be forced into the exchanges vs. how many will either voluntarily go or will just pay the fine in the first year?
 
I think Obama did a great job and even touched on subjects such as gerrymandering and Citizen's United.

Unfortunately, I feel the Tea Party and Boehner will not cave because they think in their warped reality, they are doing the right thing for the American people.

Obama having a press conference and giving logical answers only feeds the Tea Party's persecution complex and makes their extremism even worse in my opinion.
 
huacst21 said:
I think Obama did a great job and even touched on subjects such as gerrymandering and Citizen's United.

Unfortunately, I feel the Tea Party and Boehner will not cave because they think in their warped reality, they are doing the right thing for the American people.

Obama having a press conference and giving logical answers only feeds the Tea Party's persecution complex and makes their extremism even worse in my opinion.
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I think you give both too much credit. The Tea Party doesn't give a shit about non-tea party Americans and Boehner is only trying to save his speakership.
 
Fenderputty said:
Why did you posh Fox News replies as though they're representative of our populace as a whole?
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Its a tad bit absurd to suggest that I'm posting something thats claimed to be representative of an entire populace. I replied to someone saying that they hope it sways public opinion. With that said, these replies, as well as youtube replies do include voters and opinions in our country, publicly displayed opinions.

Cmon.
 
They'll cave when their constituents stop receiving food stamps. Remember, Tea Party candidates come from some of the most shit hole districts in the country. Ones that receive the most government aide. Basically poor, uneducated white people.
 
huacst21 said:
I think Obama did a great job and even touched on subjects such as gerrymandering and Citizen's United.

Unfortunately, I feel the Tea Party and Boehner will not cave because they think in their warped reality, they are doing the right thing for the American people.

Obama having a press conference and giving logical answers only feeds the Tea Party's persecution complex and makes their extremism even worse in my opinion.
Click to expand...

It doesn't take much beyond listening to the Tea Party members in Congress talk for 5 minutes to realize that entire splinter group is comprised of uneducated, racist, religious zealots. Just search 'Michele Bachmann end times' on Youtube and watch her go completely batshit insane for 90 seconds over the least little issues that have a democratic slant. She's who the Tea Party represents, and she represents them. They are terrorists working in the American government for the sole purpose of dismantling it.

I believe this will eventually come down to a civil war in the U.S. again, democrats have given up on ideals time and time again to the extreme conservative right that's being leashed by multi-billionaires like the Koch Bros. Our country is being tied up by a minority percentage of Americans who still live like we're in the age of legalized slavery.

We're probably going to lose a lot more ground in this war being fought on U.S. soil than we already have before someone makes a stand to turn things around.

ZedIndyLil said:
I hope Obama will be doing some prominent speechifying every day on this. And regularly take questions. Can't hurt his case.
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The people controlling the govt right now don't care about poll numbers or majority rule, they want to see Obama's head on a spike, plain and simple.
 
commedieu said:
Its a tad bit absurd to suggest that I'm posting something thats claimed to be representative of an entire populace. I replied to someone saying that they hope it sways public opinion. With that said, these replies, as well as youtube replies do include voters and opinions in our country, publicly displayed opinions.

Cmon.
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I guess it's the way I read the posts together then. My bad.
 
Crisco said:
They'll cave when their constituents stop receiving food stamps. Remember, Tea Party candidates come from some of the most shit hole districts in the country. Ones that receive the most government aide. Basically poor, uneducated white people.
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Nah, when that happens they'll simply blame Obama for being responsible for the shutdown because "he didn't negotiate".

Those stupid enough to vote Tea Party are brainwashed beyond all reason. Even if Boehner himself were to break into their house and kill their spouse in front of their eyes they'd say it was really Obama doing it with Muslim voodoo.
 
huacst21 said:
I think Obama did a great job and even touched on subjects such as gerrymandering and Citizen's United.

Unfortunately, I feel the Tea Party and Boehner will not cave because they think in their warped reality, they are doing the right thing for the American people.

Obama having a press conference and giving logical answers only feeds the Tea Party's persecution complex and makes their extremism even worse in my opinion.
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They don't give two shits about the american people, that much should be obvious now. At this point they are so blatantly just drones of the Koch brothers and the like, the people who are lining their pockets.
 
cdkee said:
They don't give two shits about the american people, that much should be obvious now. At this point they are so blatantly just drones of the Koch brothers and the like, the people who are lining their pockets.
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The rich people who have tons to lose if the economy goes off the deep end?
 
cdkee said:
They don't give two shits about the american people, that much should be obvious now. At this point they are so blatantly just drones of the Koch brothers and the like, the people who are lining their pockets.
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wasn;t there a tea-party fallout with some of the billionaires that founded it, mainly, koch bros? as in there was some inner fighting, and blah blah, something...?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topo...ublicans-blame-obama-20131006,0,2739790.story

Tea party Republicans blame Obama for the shutdown they planned
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maybe you'd enjoy :) Few grasp the gravity of the situation.
 
The Tea Party is basically a fake grassroots movement conceived and initially funded by business interests that has spiraled out of their control.

It would be hilarious if it hadn't inflicted so much damage on the country and our political system.
 
SteveWinwood said:
The rich people who have tons to lose if the economy goes off the deep end?
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These aren't exactly the smartest of politicians. Do keep in mind they're also doing this shitstorm to make a name for themselves. They're under the delusion that it'll work and they'll be saviors of the party because they found a way to literally override every single government process in passing and repealing laws.

People this stupid don't get this far in politics without the help of a few very wealthy people.
 
Just curious, why all of the tea party blame? Aren't there more Republicans that aren't TPers than are? Sounds like everyone wants to give all of the straight up Republicans a pass on this and blame it on the Tea Party.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Just curious, why all of the tea party blame? Aren't there more Republicans that aren't TPers than are? Sounds like everyone wants to give all of the straight up Republicans a pass on this and blame it on the Tea Party.
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I think its the threat of Tea Party donors spending their money to primary out any Republicans seen as moderate on TP issues. Thats enough to sway republicans in non-gerrymandered seats.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Just curious, why all of the tea party blame? Aren't there more Republicans that aren't TPers than are? Sounds like everyone wants to give all of the straight up Republicans a pass on this and blame it on the Tea Party.
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Non-Tea Party reps are terrified of being primaried in their districts for not being conservative enough.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Just curious, why all of the tea party blame? Aren't there more Republicans that aren't TPers than are? Sounds like everyone wants to give all of the straight up Republicans a pass on this and blame it on the Tea Party.
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Because mainstream Republicans are afraid that if they don't go with the extreme right they'll face Tea Party challenger in the primaries in the next election.
 
PrivateWHudson said:
Just curious, why all of the tea party blame? Aren't there more Republicans that aren't TPers than are? Sounds like everyone wants to give all of the straight up Republicans a pass on this and blame it on the Tea Party.
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I hate to be rude about this, but at this stage of the conversation you should have at least some foundation of understanding of the influence of the Tea Party within the Republican party, and how an extreme faction can direct the entire party.
 
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