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[c0de]

I wouldn't say Deep Down was downgraded we are just seeing what it actually looks like now.

I think the most disturing thing with the tech demo was that they showed a hud to make it look gameplayish. And it actually helped to create the hype for PS4, too.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I think the most disturing thing with the tech demo was that they showed a hud to make it look gameplayish. And it actually helped to create the hype for PS4, too.

That is specifically why I called it disingenuous.

 

[TheLegendary]

This is more in line with what I was trying to say. Those gameplay gifs that are posted above are brilliant no doubt, but you cannot claim that those are *exactly* the same as what has been shown in the cinematics. It is a similar technique used by studios such as Naughty Dog. This isn't a big deal though!

I don't think you can accurately make that claim. The quality of the feed of that YouTube video is going to make a difference and Crytek has outright claimed they're not doing that to character models. I don't think you're wrong that cut scenes will look better though, but itll be because of the framing of unique, specially crafted moments/actions that Crytek was able to design because of the camera/focusing options that aren't available during gameplay, not because of a graphical difference.

 

[ParityBit]

I can not wait for this game. It looks absolutely amazing.

No matter what people say here about elbows, skin pores or Major Nelson look a likes, the masses will eat this game up.

I do not doubt that this will sell a LOT of unit's and will push the system sales up, especially this holiday season.

 

[ironcreed]

Off topic, but 900p doesn't seem a big deal in the slightest.. I'd like more next gen games to make this small sacrifice, on the Xbox one as well as PS4.

Yeah, from looking at this game, it seems to suddenly make sense. I'll be fine with it if they can squeeze out more detail and fidelity in other areas like this.

 

[Doffen]

So what got Ford banned this time?

 

[nelsonroyale]

I don't think you can accurately make that claim. The quality of the feed of that YouTube video is going to make a difference and Crytek has outright claimed they're not doing that to character models. I don't think you're wrong that cut scenes will look better though, but itll be because of the framing of unique, specially crafted moments/actions that Crytek was able to design because of the camera/focusing options that aren't available during gameplay, not because of a graphical difference.

DoF looks of lower quality to me during gameplay compared to cutscenes. At least, there is more shimmering in gameplay sequences in the background which is not in focus.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

So what got Ford banned this time?

Browser bending gifs maybe?

 

[BigTnaples]

900p can look pretty bad if you're on a 1080p PC monitor, but should look great on a TV at proper viewing distance.

Especially with any sort of AA.

Which is why people blasting BF4 for being 900p @60fps (if that is indeed the final resolution) are silly.

 

[abadguy]

I can only wonder how far this game would have pushed the console graphically had it remained a 360 title.

OT :Why is Ford banned?

 

[SniperHunter]

So what got Ford banned this time?

Comparing graphics of a linear game with an open world game.

Plus he was wrong about the fog in infamous SS. It isnt there to hide popups.

 

[c0de]

Comparing graphics of a linear game with an open world game.

Plus he was wrong about the fog in infamous SS. It isnt there to hide popups.

Wow. For being wrong a ban... sounds harsh. And silly comparisons? Man, this thread is full of it.

 

[Doffen]

Comparing graphics of a linear game with an open world game.

Plus he was wrong about the fog in infamous SS. It isnt there to hide popups.

He shouldn't have done that. Everyone knows that Ryse looks like a last gen, God of War clone with a generic main character + boring shallow QTE fest gameplay.

And let's not forget about the shitty elbows.

 

[abadguy]

Comparing graphics of a linear game with an open world game.

Plus he was wrong about the fog in infamous SS. It isnt there to hide popups.

You can't be serious.

 

[SniperHunter]

He didnt get banned for that, but it was stupid of him.

 

[Anonumos]

Comparing graphics of a linear game with an open world game.

Plus he was wrong about the fog in infamous SS. It isnt there to hide popups.

I highly doubt that's why he was banned. At least a third of the posters in this very thread would be banned if that was the case.

 

[antitrop]

You can't be serious.

If disingenuously comparing graphics of games was bannable on NeoGAF, lol. Half the forum would be gone.

 

[ironcreed]

He shouldn't have done that. Everyone knows that Ryse looks like a last gen, God of War clone with a generic main character + boring shallow QTE fest gameplay.

And let's not forget about the shitty elbows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idsxgLjGXGI

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Comparing graphics of a linear game with an open world game.

Plus he was wrong about the fog in infamous SS. It isnt there to hide popups.

lol. But in all seriousness, I would like to know why he was banned. Nothing in his recent post history suggests a reason.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Wow. For being wrong a ban... sounds harsh. And silly comparisons? Man, this thread is full of it.

To be honest man what he said about inFamous is way off the mark, he posted two screens of the many that supported his claim, but their are plenty of pictures that show no fog at all and gameplay videos that support this as well. For him to say that the whole game is covered in fog was pretty stupid. Now I have no clue if that's why he was banned, but seriously why would he even post that?

 

[KKRT00]

Comparing graphics of a linear game with an open world game.

Can we stop that? Its getting boring and its not accurate.

 

[Apollo87]

To be honest man what he said about inFamous is way off the mark, he posted two screens of the many that supported his claim, but their are plenty of pictures that show no fog at all and gameplay videos that support this as well. For him to say that the whole game is covered in fog was pretty stupid. Now I have no clue if that's why he was banned, but seriously why would he even post that?

yeah he shouldn't say that, but seriously get banned for that ?

 

[Wishmaster92]

Game vs tech demo I suppose. I want to see what the dragon fight looks like with good IQ. Parts of that look like the most next gen thing I have seen in an upcoming game, but the IQ is too crap to make a decent conclusion about the visuals. I wish they would release a decent clip to blim.

As for them calling out ND, where is that? I would say in general that Crytek make just as many comprimises. 900p on next gen sub-HD on current being examples. At least 900p is HD though, so I think the difference will be much less of an issue.

I posted a couple pages back.

I know it's hard to believe, i didn't believe it either when i watched the trailer but look:

Cevat basically calls out Uncharted/tlou/halo 4...etc... all the games that use higher quality assets in cinematics:

One thing we are really damn proud about is that all characters share the same basic rig modules, or same fidelity whether they are in-game or cinematics.

Usually games featured in cutscenes (pre-rendered), they were usually rendering a higher end model of a character. And being able to run the same rig, the same characters you see on the screen (above picture) are the same ones being rendered in realtime during the gameplay, you blur the line between gameplay and cinematics, which again makes it more believable.
http://www.twitch.tv/dice/b/465212354?t=77m

Basically these are realtime:

What happened to Ford?

 

[CitizenCope]

yeah he shouldn't say that, but seriously get banned for that ?

Tell me it was another post. Couldn't have been that.

 

[dragonelite]

FordGT

 

[Wishmaster92]

Im on the opposite side of the fence here.

I find those Ryse screenshots looking videogame-y and sterile, besides the tons of dof blur, Ryse looks like something we have seen before wrt to high quality cut-scene models.

The other 2 however looks more next gen, something about their lighting effects and modeling being more subtle and feels higher quality.

I think i know what you're seeing, Ryse is a mix of realistic/stylized which is why i said it looks almost like a cg movie in a sense. The dark Sorcerer has a more realistic artstyle, but doesn't quite look photorealistic. It's something about the eyes in Ryse and the realistic skin shaders that makes it stand out, which i find impressive since the sorcerer was using 1 million polys vs 85,000 polys ryse uses.

Deep Down just looks bad to me besides the fire effects. Not to mention the feb demo wasn't even running on ps4 hardware.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

So what got Ford banned this time?*

Saying XBone games shouldn't be judged until they are completed, and PS4 games can be judged from a tech demo?

That's what I got from the last three pages of his posts, anyway.

* I don't actually know why he was banned, I just got here

I think i know what you're seeing, Ryse is a mix of realistic/stylized which is why i said it looks almost like a cg movie in a sense. The dark Sorcerer has a more realistic artstyle, but doesn't quite look photorealistic. It's something about the eyes in Ryse and the realistic skin shaders that makes it stand out, which i find impressive since the sorcerer was using 1 million polys vs 85,000 polys ryse uses.

Deep Down just looks bad to me besides the fire effects. Not to mention the feb demo wasn't even running on ps4 hardware.

Probably better to put some Deep Down pictures in your post then?

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

double post

 

[Colbert]

To be honest man what he said about inFamous is way off the mark, he posted two screens of the many that supported his claim, but their are plenty of pictures that show no fog at all and gameplay videos that support this as well. For him to say that the whole game is covered in fog was pretty stupid. Now I have no clue if that's why he was banned, but seriously why would he even post that?

So it is allowed to post negative comments to XBox One game screenshots but you get banned if do the same with a screenshot of a PS4 game? I cannot believe that and it would be a shame to be honest. I thought the ban came because of the lots of HQ-GIFs he posted and the resulting problems for mobile users (but then some others are guilty to that too).

 

[Majanew]

You can get banned for weird shit here. Never know what's gonna take you down. I hope he wasn't banned for saying positive things about an Xbox One exclusive in a thread about an Xbox One exclusive. There's people in here saying PS4 exclusives still look better and even brought up the resolution of Killzone.

 

[Loudninja]

You can get banned for weird shit here. Never know what's gonna take you down. I hope he wasn't banned for saying positive things about an Xbox One exclusive in a thread about an Xbox One exclusive. There's people in here saying PS4 exclusives still look better and even brought up the resolution of Killzone.

You know he was not banded for that so why even mention it?

 

[Wishmaster92]

Saying XBone games shouldn't be judged until they are completed, and PS4 games can be judged from a tech demo?

That's what I got from the last three pages of his posts, anyway.

* I don't actually know why he was banned, I just got here




Probably better to put some Deep Down pictures in your post then?

I posted them in a previous page, didn't want to post a wall of pictures. But i compared all three.

 

[Can Crusher]

I think people saying Ryse looks better than KZ Shadowfall for example, are doing so on the basis that Ryse has better character models. Ryse's environments aren't exactly setting the world on fire, would need to see more of both games before declaring which one looks best.

 

[WordsintheWater]

So it is allowed to post negative comments to XBox One game screenshots but you get banned if do the same with a screenshot of a PS4 game? I cannot believe that and it would be a shame to be honest. I thought the ban came because of the lots of HQ-GIFs he posted and the resulting problems for mobile users (but then some others are guilty to that too).

I never said that was the reason, and I can't even begin to act like I know why he got banned, that's up to the mods.

 

[Majanew]

You know he was not banded for that so why even mention it?

I know? lol no I don't that's why I said I hope. Him being banned for the PS4 screens in here would not surprise me at all.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

lol. But in all seriousness, I would like to know why he was banned. Nothing in his recent post history suggests a reason.

I think Nib and Ford are only banned for a week.

 

[KKRT00]

I've just watched Dark Sorcerer demo again and damn, its getting old fast. Few months ago its almost unbelievable, now its just great.
Geometry, polish and textures are much better than in Ryse [for example armor in Ryse has quite bad texture, what rescue it, are shaders], but materials are much worse than in Ryse.
Also skin shaders are worse and what actually surprised me the most are face expressions, because they are worse than in this Ryse trailer, body movement is much worse too.
I think body movement from performance capture is the biggest enhancement Ryse has over current gen games, You can see characters breathing, weight transition on every part of theirs body, accurate muscles displacement etc its especially visible if You watch trailer in slow motion.

I am very curious what is cost of such performance capture, because it would be nice to get to this level of fidelity in every game 3 years from now.

---

I think people saying Ryse looks better than KZ Shadowfall for example, are doing so on the basis that Ryse has better character models. Ryse's environments aren't exactly setting the world on fire, would need to see more of both games before declaring which one looks best.

Forest scene from leaked gameplay from few weeks ago looks Crysis 3 alike in terms of fidelity, so i would say that environments can look great.

 

[SniperHunter]

I've just watched Dark Sorcerer demo again and damn, its getting old fast. Few months ago its almost unbelievable, now its just great.
Geometry, polish and textures are much better than in Ryse [for example armor in Ryse has quite bad texture, what rescue it, is shaders], but materials are much worse than in Ryse.
Also skin shaders are worse and what actually surprised me the most are face expressions, because they are worse than in this Ryse trailer, body movement is much worse too.
I think body movement from performance capture is the biggest enhancement Ryse has over current gen games, You can see characters breathing, weight transition on every part of theirs body, accurate muscles displacement etc its especially visible if You watch trailer in slow motion.

You just have a hard on for anything Crytek related. Sigularity will look better than the demo they showed.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I've just watched Dark Sorcerer demo again and damn, its getting old fast. Few months ago its almost unbelievable, now its just great.
Geometry, polish and textures are much better than in Ryse [for example armor in Ryse has quite bad texture, what rescue it, are shaders], but materials are much worse than in Ryse.
Also skin shaders are worse and what actually surprised me the most are face expressions, because they are worse than in this Ryse trailer, body movement is much worse too.
I think body movement from performance capture is the biggest enhancement Ryse has over current gen games, You can see characters breathing, weight transition on every part of theirs body, accurate muscles displacement etc its especially visible if You watch trailer in slow motion.

I am very curious what is cost of such performance capture, because it would be nice to get to this level of fidelity in every game 3 years from now.

Just imagine what can be done in a few years. Where I want to see a big advancement and still haven't saw is in animation.

 

[Discusguy]

Hopefully Ford wasn't banned long. I Liked his quality gifs.

This is NEOGAF. You could be banned for anything any time.

 

[Doffen]

You just have a hard on for anything Crytek related. Sigularity will look better than the demo they showed.

It probably will, but how far away is it?

 

[KKRT00]

You just have a hard on for anything Crytek related. Sigularity will look better than the demo they showed.

Yeah, probably will. They will probably change their material rendering. But they wont use 1m poly models in their future game, they would be stupid to do that.

And i'm not hard on anything Crytek related, but what i wrote is true. Watch it.

Oh and again, there is no linearity in CryEngine rendering, its always open world design, so fidelity would be the same if game would take place in 2mx2m or 10kmx10km area, the only difference would be LoD handling.

 

[Can Crusher]

Forest scene from leaked gameplay from few weeks ago looks Crysis 3 alike in terms of fidelity, so i would say that environments can look great.

I was more impressed with KZ's forest scene personally.

 

[Dictator93]

I've just watched Dark Sorcerer demo again and damn, its getting old fast. Few months ago its almost unbelievable, now its just great.
Geometry, polish and textures are much better than in Ryse [for example armor in Ryse has quite bad texture, what rescue it, are shaders], but materials are much worse than in Ryse.
Also skin shaders are worse and what actually surprised me the most are face expressions, because they are worse than in this Ryse trailer, body movement is much worse too.
I think body movement from performance capture is the biggest enhancement Ryse has over current gen games, You can see characters breathing, weight transition on every part of theirs body, accurate muscles displacement etc its especially visible if You watch trailer in slow motion.

I am very curious what is cost of such performance capture, because it would be nice to get to this level of fidelity in every game 3 years from now.

---


Forest scene from leaked gameplay from few weeks ago looks Crysis 3 alike in terms of fidelity, so i would say that environments can look great.

Leaked gameplay? linky?

 

[Lazaro]

heh, Microsoft seems to have released a Ryse Theme Pack complete with sound effects just in time for Windows 8.1. The HD wallpapers don't look so sharp, as if they were upscaled from a lower resolution but the sound effects are quite cool.

So far Ryse seems as interesting to me as Asuras Wrath. Gameplay wise.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

heh, Microsoft seems to have released a Ryse Theme Pack complete with sound effects just in time for Windows 8.1. The HD wallpapers don't look so sharp, as if they were upscaled from a lower resolution but the sound effects are quite cool.

So far Ryse seems as interesting to me as Asuras Wrath. Gameplay wise.

Cool, thanks for posting this. Wish the ratio was 16x9 for the images in the theme, though.

 

[UNCMark]

So what got Ford banned this time?

Fords never last.

But if I were to guess, it was due to that "You're a fanboy, no you're a fanboy" spat last night that he had with Nibs since Nibs is gone too.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

heh, Microsoft seems to have released a Ryse Theme Pack complete with sound effects just in time for Windows 8.1. The HD wallpapers don't look so sharp, as if they were upscaled from a lower resolution but the sound effects are quite cool.

So far Ryse seems as interesting to me as Asuras Wrath. Gameplay wise.

Wasn't even aware of this for 8.1, thanks man! Hope they continue this trend for other games too. Animated start screen backgrounds would be nice also.

Hmm, wonder if they will do something like this with the sounds for the xb1?

 

[dragonelite]

Leaked gameplay? linky?

Not sure if it was an official leak but gamespot took down the video.
It was an on stage off screen demo of one of the earlier campaign movies.

Fords never last.

But if I were to guess, it was due to that "You're a fanboy, no you're a fanboy" spat last night that he had with Nibs since Nibs is gone too.

Yeah probably cool off time got that once too..

 

[Wishmaster92]

Wishmaster: Going by those shots....Dark Sorcer clearly looks more impressive than Ryse in terms of character modelling...I mean characters in it are made of a million polygons.

Just because the sorcerer has more polygons than vitallion doesn't automatically mean he is more detailed. Clearly i don't see a difference, instead i think the heads in ryse look more detailed, which like i said in a previous comment...is strange. I hate to post the same pictures again but they show what I'm trying to say.

To me, the skin shading is more impressive in ryse along with the eyes, teeth, lips:

Like i said before, maybe it looks more impressive to me because it has that cg look, and the dark sorcerer is aiming for a more realistic look? Both look extremely amazing.

It is not even close in motion....Having played Beyond, I doubt there will any difference between gameplay and cutscene visuals either. Ryse cutscenes still look stunning, but in motion I find the difference pretty pronounced. The range of expressions exhibited in the DS demo are also more varied.

Actually Ryse shatters dark sorcerer in terms of facial expressions. This was posted by Laa-Yosh on b3d, i believe he is working on Watch Dogs:

There are two basic approaches to face mocap.

The first method is to just place small optical markers on the face and have the system treat it like the larger markers on the body, track their movement in 3D space. Then this translation data is simply used to drive the bones in the face rig.

The problem is that the human face is much more complex and we need this complexity to interpret facial expressions. You can understand body language well enough even without the proper muscle deformations, tendons etc. - but on the face you need all the folds and wrinkles and the soft tissue pushing and pulling above the bones and such.
However you cannot place enough marker dots to track that, and the optical mocap probably couldn't handle it anyway. It also means you need a gazillion cameras on your mocap stage to always have every marker seen by at least two cameras.

There is an interesting development on this called Mova Contour, where fluorescent makeup is applied and it provides thousands of tracking points, so more fidelity can be achieved. However this requires a static sitting actor and cannot be used in performance capture where you record body and face simultaneously.

Obviously you can add some extra stuff on top of the bone based face rig, like helper bones to properly control the eye lids or the inside of the lips, and you can probably derive their movement from the tracked markers. But ultimately you only capture a small subset of the skin surface, so the deformations will suffer. You also cannot use this method to have significant differences between the actor's face and the CG character's face. Just look at the creepy human-goblin.

It's also very hard to manually animate on top of this, as all the bones have to be manipulated individually and you can not re-use any work because it's all relative on top of the mocap data.



The other approach is to track the face, then try to understand what the actor is doing and generate some kind of metadata, that can then be used to drive a facial rig based on facial expressions. So instead of tracking how many millimeters a jaw or eyelid is moving, you're instead trying to get a percentage value on "jaw opener" or "lower eyelid raiser".

The upside is that you don't care about tracking the deformations on the actor's face, you build them into the rig yourself, so the tracking doesn't need such a high granularity. You can also track pupil dilation and the markers only need to be painted on which is less obtrusive to the actor. Also, you can use a single head mounted camera so the mocap stage can be a little more simple.

However face cameras can get in the way in some situations and you also require all sorts of electronics equipment to sync them to the body mocap and voice recording, and you have to worry about batteries and such. Still, it's less expensive than buying another 20-50 cameras.

Also, you do have to put the deformations into the face rig yourself and that can take some work. You either need some talented artists to sculpt blendshapes, or multi-talented riggers to build expressions with a bone rig; or you can use scanning to get expressions from the actors but that requires significant investment. But you only have to build these deformations once, and re-use the same blink or smile or whatever. This also helps to make a character's facial performance more consistent.

The capture however requires special software called a solver that can recognize facial expressions, which is why it took so long to start to see solutions, it had to be built on a lot of research and requires fast hardware. There are also very few of these on the market, which is why probably 343 wrote their own.

Or, you can also use a human to do the "capture" like ND does Their system is by the way a bone based rig augmented with blendshapes, that has pre-defined facial expression poses for the bones, so technically it's the second approach. Only difference is that PS3 doesn't have enough memory for a full blendshape rig, so they are replicating its workings with the bones instead.
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1752931&postcount=67

Well, it's not that clear IMHO.
Some of our clients have asked us for our assets, years ago, for their nextgen R&D teams, so that they can study it. Funnily enough, this is the reason why a new game's lead character has my hands - as in, it's the geometry that I've modeled, and it is also based on my own hands

On the other hand, 343 has built a workflow and tools for their facial animation in Halo 4 that is far more complex than ours. They've programmed their own performance capture solver for the face, they've scanned real actors for every character, and the pipeline can be scaled up for the Xbox One easily; Halo 4 is like its lowres version.

Or to talk about Quantic, this demo is clearly using an evolution of their existing pipeline. They've clearly invested a lot of R&D into the software side and a lot of money into their own Vicon mocap system, so they're trying to scale it up for PS4. Unfortunately I believe it's a dead end, using straight translation data to drive bones is not enough to capture the subtleties of how the face deforms.
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1752479&postcount=54