Support NeoGAF

[JimmyRustler]

I've no plans to buy an XboxOne, but I do hope things improve. I don't think a runaway Sony train is really great for the industry, even if its going to make a lot of fans here happy and gloating.

Why not? PS2 days were glorious days. PS4 selling a LOT more units than anyone else is only good for us. A huge install base mean somehow limited risks for the devs so chances are we'll get much more varity when it comes to game genres.

 

[gofreak]

To be honest I don't think the performance of the Xbone will affect sales of the machine. As mentioned previously, PS3 Vs X360 multi platform games were generally better on the X360. I know 720p vs 1080p is a huge difference, but I just don't think many third party developers will go the extra mile to differentiate between the two platforms.

In this case it doesn't sound like anyone was going an extra mile to end up in this situation.

As for PS3 and 360, multiplat performance and reputation boosted 360 in concert with the price, especially in the early years.

And we may be talking about a larger difference in big titles here, and one that can be summed up more easily with common labels (720p/1080p).

 

[SpartanN92]

kinda like how the master race has been bragging about their 16 gb rams and 8gb vrams yet they're stuck with the same ai, animation, and physics engines as the console owners in majority of their games? higher resolution, yay. better graphical effects, yay. those pc specs can do more than those. devs could've crammed in the best animations, the most intelligent ai, the most sophisticated physics engines, yet what? pc skyrim and console skyrim are the same experience. same dumbshit pathfinding ai, same repetitive animations, same arcadey physics. with master race specs, one would've assumed it's more than just for looking prettier or running faster. too bad the arma games come out every 3 years.

EmptySpace digresses.

Also make it play Halo/Uncharted.

Then I will be impressed.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Where's the 'Wait for ...' blackboard .jpg when you need it.. (I couldn't find it on google search )

The trouble is, the horizon never gets closer ...

 

[szaromir]

Why not? PS2 days were glorious days.

If by glorious you mean awful, then agreed.

 

[Aztechnology]

When we were kids, we would go crazy talking things like how many bits this guy's console is, how many colors that guy's graphics card could display, how many sound samples an Amiga could play, how much better CD-ROM games look compared to floppy games.. You really underestimate kids' tendency to boast about having something superior and how much buzz it can create.

Ever increasingly the norm, intelligence, curiosity, inquisitve minds are rewarded more than ever. I think the amount of people who care are ever increasing.

 

[IHaveCandy]

If by glorious you mean awful, then agreed.

No, the PS2 days were pretty dang good.

 

[Huddy]

I wake up and find this thread has taken the jump to lightspeed.

I fear I'll never catch up.

 

[Salex_]

If by glorious you mean awful, then agreed.

What?

 

[killatopak]

kinda like how the master race has been bragging about their 16 gb rams and 8gb vrams yet they're stuck with the same ai, animation, and physics engines as the console owners in majority of their games? higher resolution, yay. better graphical effects, yay. those pc specs can do more than those. devs could've crammed in the best animations, the most intelligent ai, the most sophisticated physics engines, yet what? pc skyrim and console skyrim are the same experience. same dumbshit pathfinding ai, same repetitive animations, same arcadey physics. with master race specs, one would've assumed it's more than just for looking prettier or running faster. too bad the arma games come out every 3 years.

EmptySpace digresses.

It's all about dem mods. The only reason I play PC games is resolution, fps and mods. PC games also has exclusives such as DotA for example which I play everyday. RTS in general is better in PC.

If by glorious you mean awful, then agreed.

I seriously disagree. Best time of my life.

 

[Seanspeed]

only gaf is going to be bothered about this, the average joe won't care

To a certain extent you're right, but I think the general perception and word of mouth can have a pretty big effect over time. Just look at how the PS3 was 'seen' in its early years. Its a bit of a different situation, but I think that a huge influence on making the 360 the 'go-to' system, along with the price advantage.

I definitely think the PS4 has a very good chance of shifting the power back to Sony in this regard, which would be a pretty big deal.

 

[Goku]

Look up multiplat sales across both consoles and get back to me. Inferior multiplat titles absolutely hurt the PS3.

It didn't. People having both PS3 amd 360 might have gotten the 360 version, but it hardly hurt the PS3.

PS3 sold ~5M more units than 360 in 7 years (add 360's first year sales and 360's still ahead), PS2 outsold Xbox like 5:1. The combination of hardware, services, policies and price allowed MS to be much more competitive, but this time Sony has the advantage on most of those things.

-PS3 was selling faster in its first year than 360 did, while beeing 599 euro/usd and it made the WiiU look like it had a lot of games.
- The PS2 was 199USD 2 years into its gen, it took PS3 7 years. So you can't say PS2 has sold x amount so PS3 should have sold more. The bulk of PS2's has been sold at a much lower price than the PS3.
-Xbox was a new brand and PS2 was succesor to PS.

Considering Sony's lead and market share coming into this gen, that's still massively underperforming.

The first couple years of the PS3 was a disaster that Sony still hasn't fully recovered from, so I don't see how Xbox One repeating those mistakes should somehow be viewed favorably.

See above.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Because not everyone has $2000 to build the wizard that produces the Jizz's tower.

That machine will be 800$ next year and 400$ year after that.

Anyway... a bit off topic.

The next gen machines have much better upscalers than the current gen... in reality the difference between 1080 and 720 might not be that relevant to 95% of the players. I guess we will see, not too bothered by all this at the moment. My current gaming needs seem to be smaller non AAA games anyway... from next gen consoles I expect a wide host of features and not only some crazy pixel race (that is what my PC is for).

 

[Marvel]

If by glorious you mean awful, then agreed.

 

[MysticGoujon]

900p 30fps

lmao!

If we're talking about technicalities KZ:SF is better than rise and 1080p>900p.

I'm not going to spend the next generation looking at a spec sheet, I'm going to spend it looking at the screen. Put those two on the screen next to each other and they both look equally as fantastic, truly next gen.

For the record, KZ:SF in single player is 30fps too.

 

[cripterion]

Holy fuck, I didn't see that one coming. Even for COD? Yikes...

 

[NemesisPrime]

It didn't. People having both PS3 amd 360 might have gotten the 360 version, but it hardly hurt the PS3.

I don't think it did. A lot of my PS3 friends never notice any difference between 360 and PS3 versions. It is all about having fun for most people... they don't care about a few shadows missing or slightly lower resolutions. It will be the same this gen. I know we all like to rave about this, but reality checks please.

 

[googleplex]

Oh god!

 

[Alpende]

Oh shit. Albert Penello responds and CBOAT responds to that. That's awesome. MS dun goofed.

 

[bigboss370]

We have some of smartest programmers in the world working on Xbox One. I am very much looking forward to the next few months (and beyond) as the truth comes out.

looks like the truth is coming out Larry >_>

 

[IHaveCandy]

I'm not going to spend the next generation looking at a spec sheet, I'm going to spend it looking at the screen. Put those two on the screen next to each other and they both look equally as fantastic, truly next gen.

For the record, KZ:SF in single player is 30fps too.

Well if you think resolution and frame rate don't matter, then that's your prerogative.

 

[Seanspeed]

Why not? PS2 days were glorious days. PS4 selling a LOT more units than anyone else is only good for us. A huge install base mean somehow limited risks for the devs so chances are we'll get much more varity when it comes to game genres.

Xbox One isn't going away, though. It will still sell in the millions and developers will still be making games for it.

 

[Chobel]

1) Point still remains, Ryse is leagues above COD in visuals and running a higher res. There is power in the machine to push it higher than 720p, if not we can refer to Forza 5, much better looking game running at 1080p60. My suspicion is still that the first party has had access to more advanced drivers earlier, allowing them more time to make use of the hardware.

2) I'm pretty sure that in that digital foundry article that it said the ESRAM was an evolution of the EDRAM, however unlike before, the developer could get full access to it and control it themselves, however if they didn't want to, the system would manage it for them.

1) Forza 5 is racing game, but I think what you said is a fair point. First/second party devs will always be better because they need to focus on one hardware only unlike multipat devs.

2) Having full access and controlling eSRAM it's not easy as you think, and for now devs must manage eSRAM by themselves because it can't be managed by the system

Spoiler

yet

.

 

[Ashes]

Hurt? The PS3 has been outselling the 360 since launch worldwide while beeing more expensive, not having more powerful hardware and have crappy version of multiplats and a small selection of exclusives in the first dew years.

PS3 arguably is more powerful than the x360, it was just more harder to develop for.
Ps3 also had bluray, much much better [Read future proof] than the xbox's DVD, and the ps3 won Sony the HD format war.
But it is still considered a failure because it came from total market domination to fighting for a distant second place, pretty much till till the Wii fell from grace.

There is seemingly a clear unbridgeable gap between the XB1 and ps4. So unless XB1's HDMI in takes off or we get a Kinect sales explosion, or we get consumers opting for the xb1 games such as titanfall, the xb1 seems to be a tougher sell than the PS3 ever was.

 

[NemesisPrime]

lmao!



If we're talking about technicalities KZ:SF is better than rise and 1080p>900p.

This is what is wrong with gaming today. People judge games by spec sheets.

 

[IRQ]

I really dont know what happend to MS. Going from an easy route as 360 to a complex design is repulsive, disgusting and imbeciles.

I still cant comprehend tha X1 cant run COD at 1080.

What will happen to my treasure Halo? Am about to give up gaming seriously.

 

[riflen]

I'm just struggling to understand how microsoft plans for the XB1 to be a future proof device... how can it be future proof if it can't even do 1080p native, which is old technology? lol. Just odd. What happens in 6 years when people are buying 4K TVs? Just gonna upres from 720P to whatever the hell resolution 4K is? That just sounds terrible

Neither one of these consoles will support games at 4k. Yes, if you're using a 4k display the output will be scaled up to 3840x2160. This isn't much different to what you've been getting for the last 7 years tbh. COD engine has been running at 1024x600 on Xbox for years. I think BLOPS2 perhaps managed 880x720.

 

[killatopak]

I'm not going to spend the next generation looking at a spec sheet, I'm going to spend it looking at the screen. Put those two on the screen next to each other and they both look equally as fantastic, truly next gen.

For the record, KZ:SF in single player is 30fps too.

So you're going to ignore resolution differences and Multiplayer fps?

This is what is wrong with gaming today. People judge games by spec sheets.

I said technicalities for a reason. In no way is it all to judge a game. I just said technically KZ is better than Ryse. Does it say it has the better gameplay or art style?

 

[Metfanant]

How is it proof? Ryse is just as good looking, arguably better, which one you think looks the best is very much down to your preference in art style though.

Well Ryse is also rendering at 900p instead of 1080p...and in the case of the multiplayer half the framrate...

Meanwhile the master race is moving to 4K. Why are you guys even fighting over this?

You mean the same master race that was shitting bricks when the system requirements for Watch Dogs and Ghosts were released and they realized that their PC's were not quite so powerful after all?...

Don't feed me crap about 4k...you're going to need to spend triple the cost of a next gen console to play most of these games in 4k at high settings and reasonable framrates...

Posts like this do nothing but give PC gamers a bad name, and should be straight up ban worthy IMO...

The topic is CLEARLY about comparisons between CONSOLE versions of the game...

 

[Aztechnology]

We have some of smartest programmers in the world working on Xbox One. I am very much looking forward to the next few months (and beyond) as the truth comes out.

Well that's not false, unfortunately they are being hamstringed by inferior hardware. Not saying that they wont be able to do incredible things with what they have, just that they would of been better off with a stronger core system.

 

[Bedlam]

I don't think it did. A lot of my PS3 friends never notice any difference between 360 and PS3 versions. It is all about having fun for most people... they don't care about a few shadows missing or slightly lower resolutions. It will be the same this gen. I know we all like to rave about this, but reality checks please.

I think it did hurt the PS3. The casual customer might not care about the exact resolution of a specific game but the common narrative (that eventually reached "soft-core" customers as well) became that the PS3 versions are pretty much always worse which made the 360 the go-to console for multiplatform games. We might see a reversal here as well.

 

[sTaTIx]

How is it proof? Ryse is just as good looking, arguably better, which one you think looks the best is very much down to your preference in art style though.

Um, no, it's not just as good looking. At least not in pure technical terms.

The only people I've ever heard try and argue that Ryse competes with Killzone: Shadow Fall are Xbox fans. You may prefer the art style of Ryse, but that's a completely subjective argument. What we REALLY want to compare is the objective technical metrics: polygon counts per frame, texture resolution, texture variety, shader complexity, lighting, and scale of the maps. Oh, and screen resolution, also. Killzone: Shadow Fall, at 1080p, seems to trump Ryse (900p) on a purely technical level, and it does so with larger-scale maps, and more complex enemy AI. Let's also not forget that Shadow Fall's multiplayer runs at 60fps, and still manages to maintain a high standard of visual fidelity.

Again, we're not arguing what "looks better" artistically, because that's a subjective argument. But it's only logical that Killzone: Shadow Fall would handily beat Ryse in terms of pure technical visual fidelity, since it's already a known fact that the PS4 is a significantly more powerful machine than the Xbox One.

...Crytek is getting arguably the best looking game of the next gen running at 900p.

Not even close. I wouldn't put Ryse in the top 5 most technically impressive games of the next-gen. It doesn't even look nearly as impressive as the footage we've seen of Destiny, and that's a multiplatform game.

 

[amardilo]

I really wish 3rd parties right now would come out and saw what the resolution and frame rates for their next-gen games would be. I need raw numbers.

I know it is harsh on the console makers but I really would like to know which console is going to be the better purchase for multiplatform titles (not including PC). Right now going by known specs and rumored information it sounds like the PS4 is the way to go.

I don't think MS are helping themselves by saying things like "both will be great and they can't see any difference" as that just sounds like what people said about multiplatform games on the PS3 at the start of the current generation.

 

[Steroyd]

It didn't. People having both PS3 amd 360 might have gotten the 360 version, but it hardly hurt the PS3.




-PS3 was selling faster in its first year than 360 did, while beeing 599 euro/usd and it made the WiiU look like it had a lot of games.
- The PS2 was 199USD 2 years into its gen, it took PS3 7 years. So you can't say PS2 has sold x amount so PS3 should have sold more. The bulk of PS2's has been sold at a much lower price than the PS3.
-Xbox was a new brand and PS2 was succesor to PS.

The flaw in this is that you're solely focusing on hardware numbers, but if you look at past NPD's heck even today you can see where it hurt Sony the most, and is still feeling it (the software sales).

 

[not_so_special]

Meanwhile the master race is moving to 4K. Why are you guys even fighting over this?

master race its too busy making screenshots at that resolution downsampling and getting 10 frames per second if they are lucky after spending way more money

 

[MysticGoujon]

Well if you think resolution and frame rate don't matter, then that's your prerogative.

I'm saying that the end product is a lot more important than the statistic. Simple fact is that the single player campaigns of both KZ:SF and Ryse are on a par, and they're both running at the same frame rate.

 

[gamerforever]

Um, no, it's not just as good looking. At least not in pure technical terms.

The only people I've ever heard try and argue that Ryse competes with Killzone: Shadow Fall are Xbox fans. You may prefer the art style of Ryse, but that's a completely subjective argument. What we REALLY want to compare is the objective technical metrics: polygon counts per frame, texture resolution, texture variety, shader complexity, lighting, and scale of the maps. Oh, and screen resolution, also. Killzone: Shadow Fall, at 1080p, seems to trump Ryse (900p) on a purely technical level, and it does so with larger-scale maps, and more complex enemy AI.

Again, we're not arguing what "looks better" artistically, because that's a subjective argument. But it's only logical that Killzone: Shadow Fall would handily beat Ryse in terms of pure technical visual fidelity, since it's already a known fact that the PS4 is a significantly more powerful machine than the Xbox One.

Also Killzone has to render a larger environment and has so much more going on in any given scene. It still looks significantly better and is running at a higher resolution.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

*wakes up, has coffee, turns on computer, reads gaf, spits out coffee*

Holy shit, so this happened while EU was sleeping???

Does this primarily mean Activision are having a hard time developing for the new consoles (with the PS4 1080p video apparently also looking like shit, and if the rumour are correct having to step down to 720p for the xb1 version)?

And if so, Is it because they "sold the skin before the bear was shot" on it being a launch title for the new systems? Or are the new systems harder to develop for than we thought?

If that is so they should've probably delayed next-gen versions instead, but there's probably no room for more launch title delays. Tough one.

 

[SpartanN92]

master race its too busy making screenshots at that resolution downsampling and getting 10 frames per second if they are lucky after spending way more money

AntonioBanderas.gif

 

[IHaveCandy]

This is what is wrong with gaming today. People judge games by spec sheets.

Did you even read what he said?

 

[Jack cw]

only gaf is going to be bothered about this, the average joe won't care

Right... like he didnt care about the DRM, like he didnt notice the gap in resolution from Wii to PS360... I see damage control is absurd as always. 720p is the same as 1080p now

If by glorious you mean awful, then agreed.

PS2 era gave us more new IPs than current gen combined..

 

[Have a Nice Day]

If by glorious you mean awful, then agreed.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

What happened in here guys since that bish meltdown?

 

[MegamanEXE]

I find that unlikely. No matter how 'non-stronger than PS4' the Xbone is, it's should still be enough to run a game like CoD Ghosts at 1080p/900p at 60fps considering how non-flattering it looks.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

well the fact that 360 games ran at 720p native at all should make the fact that big-time XB1 games are launching at the same resolution a little disconcerting, no? You'd hope to get some kind of upgrade in the resolution department alongside your $500 new shiny box, wouldn't you?

It's worrying, but then I look at Ryse and think maybe it won't be that big an issue.

Ryse, to me at least, looks like a generational leap title. Same for DR3, KZ, Knack.

 

[RulkezX]

When we were kids, we would go crazy talking things like how many bits this guy's console is, how many colors that guy's graphics card could display, how many sound samples an Amiga could play, how much better CD-ROM games look compared to floppy games.. You really underestimate kids' tendency to boast about having something superior and how much buzz it can create.

"Only GAF will care" is just a comfort blanket at this point.

It probably wont change much for Ghosts, but it could absolutely have an effect on whatever COD is next and what platform people decide to play it on.

 

[Sethos]

That rumor

This thread

 

[szaromir]

What?

No 2D games. The controller was awful. Texture shimmering in every single game made my eyes bleed. No patches meant that bugs and glitches stayed in the game forever (problem not unique to PS2 obviously, but rectified with later consoles). The superambitious PC devs from late 90s were either closing shop or switching to streamlined console games development. Of course, the worst thing about the console is that its library is just dull.

PS2 era gave us more new IPs than current gen combined..

Blatantly false.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Now that 2K is having a conference today I am bracing myself for another thread. "PS4 version of NBA 2K14 1080p hi res textures, Xbox One 720p!"

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

I don't know what has happened in this thread, but can someone confirm to me if this has been proven to be true??

SO cod on xbox is 720p??