Support NeoGAF

[Moobabe]

So because you've heard a rumour, it's bullshit to have the opinion that something looks awesome. Wow.

That's what you took away from what he said? Right..

 

[Raist]

Went to bed at 27 pages.......................SUDDENLY ONE HUNDRED PAGES!!!!!

And still no confirmation 0_0

Spoiler

"Nobody cares about Call of Duty"

It's as good as confirmed honestly. Between IW's silence (they could debunk it in a second) and MS PR "we don't know about third party games", it's fairly obvious.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

It's out in the wilds:

http://www.gamepur.com/news/12532-t...leaker-issue-clarification-also-comment-.html

This is going to end in so much blood. What a night, I wonder what I will come back to. IW and Respawn may end up talking. Crazy times.

 

[shem935]

But my argument is that both Ryse and KZ:SF look amazing, and it's personal choice which looks best. You're too fixed to the technical details.

Whether or not Ryse looks amazing, or that we are too fixated on technical details is irrelevant. What the point of all of this is is that the Xbone has trouble displaying 1080p video. Now obviously people are upset because they are being asked to pay a premium to get 720p games, not 1080p which should be the standard for any console claiming to be next generation. So ryse may look amazing, but thats beside the point, because it could look even better running at 1080p on a ps4.

 

[call_kotaku]

Bring on the hyperbole.

Atleast we agree that these sorts of opinions are irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[kpaadet]

Well that just concretes it more for me - anything below 720p looks mediocre but 720p looks pretty fucking great and uses less than HALF the fillrate - can fill that up with so much other stuff.

Yeah I agree, lets just stop trying to get higher resolution, just think when we are playing on PS5 and Xbox Two the amount of detail we can get using 720p. Why try to progress when we can just make current tech prettier and prettier? If only we had figured this out in the PS2 era, then we would be playing the most amazing looking games in 480p on my SDTV today.

 

[Acheteedo]

You know, Albert has convinced me that rendering resolutions and graphical fidelity are subjective things that aren't really relevant to playing awesome games so in addition to my PS4 I will now also be purchasing a Wii U. Still not picking up a bone.

So edgy.

 

[shinra-bansho]

LMFAO at the the wall-of-text attack.

"Massively worse?" Come on...

And many who bought a PS2 after 2001 (the majority of PS2 owners) didn't seem to care about the PS2 being more expensive but weaker. As long as the console is an improvement over what they are playing on their old consoles visually and has compelling content, then people will get it.

This has been shown many times.

Network externalities afforded by the PS2's year advantage created greater inherent value.
The same applied to the 360 this generation in the US; which is why regardless of price parity and content parity the PS3 has never sold as well.

Launching at the same time as a major competitor won't really afford such advantages.

 

[sTaTIx]

4xMSAA
SSAO
Mass Physics
Vegetation Physics
Volumetric lighting
64bit HDR
Open World Engine Actual game was linear
Day/Night Cycle Day/Night cycle not implemented in final game

It's runs at 540p, but hey that's the price to pay for having such an amazing technical feature set :/

Full Auto II: Battlelines (PS3) is MUCH more impressive than that:

• 1080p (4 times the number of pixels of Alan Wake)
• 4xMSAA
• Vehicle physics and destruction
• Real-time reflections
• Full-screen Motion blur

 

[TheRealTalker]

Damn, missed a lot in a few hours....

Damn wake up and see this gif

 

[Thrakier]

Cut it out. Besides native rendering resolution, a lot of what you're saying isn't any more objective than what anyone else who thinks Ryse looks better has to say, and pretending otherwise doesn't make it true.

Please, do tell. What is the polygon counts per frame of these two games? All I know for certain is that Ryse's main character has a poly count close to twice that of the highest LOD level in Killzone, and all the cutscene models in Ryse are the same models, in terms of overall detail and fidelity, as those used during gameplay, but even I can see that this alone tells us nothing. I'm amazed that you know so much about the texture resolution of these two games. Rendering resolution and texture resolution aren't necessarily guaranteed to be the same two things, so I don't know where you get that from. You have textures on all different kinds of surfaces in games, ranging from characters, to terrain, to weapons, to vehicles etc. Knowing what the texture resolution is on one or two aspects of a game doesn't exactly tell you everything else.

Texture variety and shader complexity? How do you know how complex Ryse's shaders are, or even how complex Killzone's shaders are? You're making a lot of claims you simply can't back up with anything other than your opinion that all this looks significantly better in Killzone compared to Ryse. Texture variety? Really? You've seen enough of these two games to talk about texture variety? Another bogus argument, really. The silliest way I've seen people try to downplay how good Ryse looks is to say, "Oh, well, you're just seeing art, and you think it looks better based on what you 'see,' and that's of course subjective. Nothing technical there. The game I think looks better is the only correct answer here, because my opinion is more 'technical'," but that's largely nonsense for a simple reason: A lot of what people are actually going on with regards to Killzone is also based on what they look at and deem most attractive, because a lot of the innermost technical details are things that few of us even know about, or will ever know about. If you think lighting, as well as some of the things you mention such as texture variety and shaders aren't also a subject of 'art,' then you, quite frankly, don't know what you're saying.

Killzone is a beautiful looking game. An absolutely beautiful fucking game. I don't need a bunch of technical baloney to tell me that. I can look and see for myself, and that's how the majority of people judge a game also. They look, they appreciate details, they appreciate technical accomplishments, they appreciate art. There's no question about how beautiful a game Killzone is, but there's also no question about how beautiful a game Ryse is. You and anyone else are certainly free to think it's the better looking game, and, yes, that's your opinion. It isn't fact, because there are people who also think Ryse is the better looking game, and that, too, is also an opinion. It is an opinion that no amount of uninformed and incorrectly applied technical babble, attempting to completely separate what people are seeing and prefer most with their own two eyes from anything that could be deemed technical to suit your own view, is going to change. People judge the graphical and technical impressiveness of a game based on what they see, even if they couldn't name every single technique that is on display. To demand such a ridiculous standard reduces the beauty of videogames, which for all intents and purposes is an artform, to nothing more than a challenge to see who can name and describe the most impressive sounding graphical techniques with zero consideration for how those techniques are used and applied. How it all comes together artistically is absolutely crucial to how impressive a game looks, and because you can't possibly decide that this particular piece of art is superior to anything else, and actually have everybody everywhere unanimously agree with you, there's zero guarantee that you are any more correct than someone else who has a different view.

You can't regulate nor come up with a set of rules or a mathematical formula to say who is right from who is wrong, and what looks prettier than what. Are you insane? So, please, enough with that nonsense. Killzone not only does not look significantly better than Ryse, but Ryse is the better looking game based on what has been shown of both games so far. Do I deny that this is my opinion, and not the universal law of the land? No, I do not, but you might as well stop treating your own opinion as fact or the only thing that can pass the 'test,' because nothing could be any further from the truth, and the resolution doesn't change that, and neither does the fact that Killzone's MP is 60fps most of the time. I'm comparing SP to SP. There are even larger environments in Ryse than what has been shown so far. at least Crytek has said as much. And even if Killzone did have larger playspaces, I'm not even sure what the heck that's suppose to even mean in a discussion regarding how good people believe the two game's look, particularly when they're two vastly different kinds of games. Ryse could take place in a single, solitary hole in the ground, and you would still be no better served by telling us how much larger Killzone's environments are. Games have different goals and visions. This is a surprise to no one. It's similar to how silly I thought it was for people to be complaining about Guerilla telling us that FPS starts to drop after 24 AI are on screen, and I defended the game, pointing out how little sense I thought it made to somehow hold that against the game.

I don't know how much you know about any of this stuff, and I'm sure as hell no expert myself, but I know enough to understand that there is no check list formula for determining how great or fantastic a game looks among different people with vastly different opinions of beauty, at least sure as hell not one that everybody will actually agree with. I think Blue Dragon is easily one of the most beautiful games I played this generation. Do I expect everyone to agree with me? No, but that doesn't make my opinion invalid, so, please, if people happen to think Ryse is the best looking game they've seen, they have every right to their opinion, just as much as people have every right to believe Killzone is the best looking game they've seen. 1080p vs 900p does virtually nothing to change this. They are two entirely different games. Now, if COD: Ghosts is 1080p on the PS4 and 720p on the Xbox One, then there's absolutely no question that the PS4 version is the better looking game, because they're the same damn game in literally every way possible. There's not much room for discussion there at all, but between Ryse and Killzone? Yea, best believe that case isn't so easily closed.

Wow, that is a piece of art. It really is.

I think it's amazing how people go out of their way to legitimate spending 500$ on a weak "next gen" machine instead of buying the clearly superior one for 100bucks less. The argument "but it's the games" doesn't matter since you buy that new platform for only one reason, that is that it's more powerful than it's predecessor.

 

[Jack cw]

Wow, that is a piece of art. It really is.

I think it's amazing how people go out of their way to legitimate spending 500$ on a weak "next gen" machine instead of buying the clearly superior one for 100bucks less. The argument "but it's the games" doesn't matter since you buy that new platform for only one reason, that is that it's more powerful than it's predecessor.

I cant believe that I actually share your opinion on this...

 

[Riky]

Infinity Ward were supposed to have confirmed both versions were 1080p according to Eurogamer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-runs-at-1080p-and-60fps-on-xbox-one-and-ps4

Did something change?

 

[Acheteedo]

Wow, that is a piece of art. It really is.

I think it's amazing how people go out of their way to legitimate spending 500$ on a weak "next gen" machine instead of buying the clearly superior one for 100bucks less. The argument "but it's the games" doesn't matter since you buy that new platform for only one reason, that is that it's more powerful than it's predecessor.

wat, has the thread gone this far that the games don't matter any more, and not just implying as such but outright stating it?

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

on a side note, we take for granted that cryteck are the tech wizards pushing the hardware to the edge but this gen Crysis 3 didn't really surpass KZ 3

 

[Courage]

Infinity Ward were supposed to have confirmed both versions were 1080p according to Eurogamer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-runs-at-1080p-and-60fps-on-xbox-one-and-ps4

Did something change?

As people said, targets change as development progresses. It's possible they couldn't maintain a steady 60fps at 1080p with the Xbox One, so they opted for lower resolution for the sake of framerate.

Which is commendable, but at the same time embarrassing for the Xbox One if it's truly due to underpowered specs.

 

[Ashes]

For details or rankings? Because let me spoil it for you
PC $2000
PC $1000
PS4
Xbox One
Xbox 360
PS3
PC

And there probably won't be a Wii U version -- so there.

Fixed. I don't know where average PC sits. Feel free to add 'master race'.
Wasn't this master race stuff banned for reasons similar to this?

Edit: master race not a reference to your post it seems.

 

[Pug]

Infinity Ward were supposed to have confirmed both versions were 1080p according to Eurogamer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-runs-at-1080p-and-60fps-on-xbox-one-and-ps4

Did something change?

Possibly!

 

[MysticGoujon]

Whether or not Ryse looks amazing, or that we are too fixated on technical details is irrelevant. What the point of all of this is is that the Xbone has trouble displaying 1080p video. Now obviously people are upset because they are being asked to pay a premium to get 720p games, not 1080p which should be the standard for any console claiming to be next generation. So ryse may look amazing, but thats beside the point, because it could look even better running at 1080p on a ps4.

Thats if a PS4 could handle that of course.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I think you can compare some aspects and technicalities of both games. There are Power Point presentations and PDF files of both games showing what tech they used and such. I just don't know if one is better than the other. I don't know if the poster you replied to has a knowledge of such aspects though

Source:

Killzone: Shadow Fall -http://www.guerrilla-games.com/prese...Postmortem.pdf

http://www.guerrilla-games.com/prese...ostmortem.pptx

Ryse: Son of Rome - http://www.crytek.com/cryengine/presentations

There's a lot of interesting info available for both games, but a lot of info we also don't know as well. Personally, I'll just settle on both games look fantastic, because I hate to be in a dick measuring contest between what I think are two very different and both unbelievable looking games that I find quite stunning so close to launch. Not entirely unexpected of the two systems, but always nice to see.

But, yea, I'm done with this argument over the two games, because I genuinely hate to be in a position where I'm comparing two games like this, because it does both such a huge disservice. Both developers are doing amazing work, and that's the end of it for me.

 

[Goku]

Full Auto II: Battlelines (PS3) is MUCH more impressive than that:

• 1080p (4 times the number of pixels of Alan Wake)
• 4xMSAA
• Vehicle physics and destruction
• Real-time reflections
• Full-screen Motion blur

Actual Game was linear, but it was set in an open world and the game loaded the environments as if they were open.
And there is one day/night transition.

So yeah.

 

[MysticGoujon]

What? It was a shitstorm. People were still joking about getting a Halo 3 HD remaster weeks ago on here.

What are you talking about? I've seen the game on PS4, it looks shit. Unless it looks hugely better on XBO, and there's no way it does, it looks shit there too. How much shitter? We shall have to wait and see.

Thats your opinion, one which I agree with, why are you calling him a liar and bullshitter for having his own? To be a liar, there has to be a lie told.

 

[Jotaka]

Nothing in this world is objectively better than anything else. Everything is subjective. People have different wants and needs.

Nothing? I hate postmodernist mentality... A non polluted river is objective better than a polluted one.

 

[Pug]

Wow, that is a piece of art. It really is.

I think it's amazing how people go out of their way to legitimate spending 500$ on a weak "next gen" machine instead of buying the clearly superior one for 100bucks less. The argument "but it's the games" doesn't matter since you buy that new platform for only one reason, that is that it's more powerful than it's predecessor.

So the Xbox one is not more powerful than the 360? Interesting, that would make me question me parting with £429.99

 

[darkwing]

Infinity Ward were supposed to have confirmed both versions were 1080p according to Eurogamer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-runs-at-1080p-and-60fps-on-xbox-one-and-ps4

Did something change?

maybe upscaled 1080p vs native 1080p?

 

[Thrakier]

The fact, that Xbone games don't hit the 1080p standard is not because of artistic vision or bullshit like this. It's because the machine IS SIMPLY NOT POWERFUL enough to hit 1080p WHILE keeping a graphical fidely which differentiates itself enough from last gen. CoD 1080p/60 would probably just look like the last 360COD in a much higher resolution. How do you sell resoultion through screenshots and youtube videos? Right, you don't.

That doesn't change the fact that 720p on a 1080p signifcantly COMPROMISES the artistic vision of a videogame by adding unwanted blur and scaling artifacts. There is NOTHING good in non native resolutions and people who defend that shit are out of their mind.

 

[Dictator93]

I love that I fell asleep last night reading Famous Mortimers post in the other thread thinking... aww man, when he posts what he will posts, this forum will explode.

Lo and behold, GAF exploded.

So awesome.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

The absolutely lousy UI for Xbox One combined with sub 1080p multiplats really does not bode well for Microsoft. I would respect them a lot more if they would just delay it, but that will never happen.

 

[Jack cw]

Thats your opinion, one which I agree with, why are you calling him a liar and bullshitter for having his own? To be a liar, there has to be a lie told.

You know, hiding the truth isnt much better than lying.

 

[Eusis]

Halo 3/ODST were sub-720p and nobody melted..

Oh people definitely melted, for Halo 3 anyway. I think it just wasn't as big of a deal though since it was still a huge HD jump so it was more that some people freaked out, quite a few grumbled, then we more or less moved on. It looked notably sharper than some of the upscaled game that came later on anyway, or so I thought.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Fixed. I don't know where average PC sits. Feel free to add 'master race'.
Wasn't this master race stuff banned for reasons similar to this?

This is an extremely pathetic response to someone who just posted what everyone already knows.

 

[N30RYU]

Doesnt make it any better when resized and scaled propotionally.

to be fair, is more like this

 

[Radec]

what the hell.

 

[killatopak]

Wow, that is a piece of art. It really is.

I think it's amazing how people go out of their way to legitimate spending 500$ on a weak "next gen" machine instead of buying the clearly superior one for 100bucks less. The argument "but it's the games" doesn't matter since you buy that new platform for only one reason, that is that it's more powerful than it's predecessor.

Exclusives don't count? There are people that might be more impressed with the Xbox One's offerings plus its Kinect functionality. I'm assuming that MS is betting on the casuals being interested in the tech. Also, if we're just buying it because it's better than the last, wouldn't buying a PC be better?

PC experience is vastly different from console ones and that's why people buy consoles.
Just the fact that a lot of people are not willing to build their own PC and are more comfortable with console's pricing is already a sign.

IMO I don't think we should bash people for their purchasing decisions because they might find something of interest in another console that we don't.

Now if we're purely talking about multiplatform games then I would argue that PS4 has a better capacity for it, on consoles that is.

 

[Perkel]

stuff

I like the fact that you are comparing standard mob character model polycount in Killzone SF to main character model in 3rd person game Ryse.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Nothing? I hate postmodernist mentality... A non polluted river is objective better than a polluted one.

Except for the profit margins of major energy corporations.

 

[Jack cw]

to be fair, is more like this

It actually isnt, but for the sake of Xbone: save it at least without compression

 

[darkwing]

in cboat we trust

 

[wonderdung]

Infinity Ward were supposed to have confirmed both versions were 1080p according to Eurogamer.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-runs-at-1080p-and-60fps-on-xbox-one-and-ps4

Did something change?

My favorite part of this article is that none of the developer quotes mention 1080 at all.

 

[ChimpanzeeThat]

Microsoft must hate NeoGAF with a passion.

 

[Thrakier]

So the Xbox one is not more powerful than the 360? Interesting, that would make me question me parting with £429.99

It is, but the difference isn't significant enough in relation to the time when it's released and it's price. You sure should question your money.

wat, has the thread gone this far that the games don't matter any more, and not just implying as such but outright stating it?

If it's the games, no one should buy either a PS4 or a Xbone at launch. There are plenty of systems out there with much more choice of games, higher quality games, cheaper games. People buy PS4 and Xbone at launch because they want new HIGHTEC toys, not because they want to play rather weak launch games, which are already the xiteration and don't offer something new BESIDES better graphics. So, yes, in fact people spend their money for TECH, not for games. And if you buy a xbone for tech, you are doing it wrong.

I cant believe that I actually share your opinion on this...

Should I know you?

 

[shem935]

Thats if a PS4 could handle that of course.

Okay.gif

 

[Soupstorm]

to be fair, is more like this

True, but now we're comparing a downscaled image to an upscaled-downscaled image, which is both counterproductive and not funny.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Oh man has MS completely failed with their next gen console. The only way I can see them compete is if they drop the kinect and sell it for 299

 

[killatopak]

Thats if a PS4 could handle that of course.

What makes you think that it can't?

 

[Snaku]

Wow, that is a piece of art. It really is.

I think it's amazing how people go out of their way to legitimate spending 500$ on a weak "next gen" machine instead of buying the clearly superior one for 100bucks less. The argument "but it's the games" doesn't matter since you buy that new platform for only one reason, that is that it's more powerful than it's predecessor.

What a load. So I'm supposed to buy a PS4 because it's more powerful and cheaper, even though the only game that interests me in the launch window is Resogun? And I'm supposed to ignore the weaker Xbone even though I'm super excited to play Killer Instinct, Dead Rising 3, Crimson Dragon, and Titanfall in that same window? Yeah, no thanks. I realize the PS4 hardware is the better value, but I'm looking for more than a next gen Netflix player.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Wow, that is a piece of art. It really is.

I think it's amazing how people go out of their way to legitimate spending 500$ on a weak "next gen" machine instead of buying the clearly superior one for 100bucks less. The argument "but it's the games" doesn't matter since you buy that new platform for only one reason, that is that it's more powerful than it's predecessor.

Yeah, uhh, hell no. Games will always be the most important factor. The fact that one system can offer prettier games than the other system is just an added bonus.

It blows my mind that anyone would just look at a sheet of specs, compare them and make a decision based solely off that. It's a bit ludicrous.

 

[Jack cw]

Should I know you?

Not necessarily. It's enough that I know what you use to do with threads like this.

 

[StuBurns]

Thats your opinion, one which I agree with, why are you calling him a liar and bullshitter for having his own? To be a liar, there has to be a lie told.

Yes, and I'm convinced he lied, he doesn't think it looks amazing. You think he does, that's fine, but I don't.

 

[shem935]

Thats if a PS4 could handle that of course.

Hmm I wonder if the system with a 50% more powerful gpu and 8 gb of gddr5 ram could handle something a system with a %50 weaker gpu and 8gb of ddr3 with a 32mb cache of esram can handle? Nope im sure it cant.