16 peoples on things they couldn't believe until they moved to America

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Divus

Member
Hey I use turn signals here.

Favorite unique Indiana (northern) traffic problem is rednecks absolutely love driving there lifted 4x4's off the road into someone's yard during heavy snows. That way when your the second person down the road your car gets caught in there ruts and pulled into the ditch. Either you dig your way free or pay another redneck to pull you out.
 

strobogo

Banned
To which India did you go to? I lived there for 3 1/2 years and the traffic is one of the things I disliked the most, is just super dangerous to be on the street where no one follows traffic laws and that goes for pedestrians too.

Indiana. I can't even imagine how India is. Rome made me legitimately scared for my life.

Hey I use turn signals here.

Favorite unique Indiana (northern) traffic problem is rednecks absolutely love driving there lifted 4x4's off the road into someone's yard during heavy snows. That way when your the second person down the road your car gets caught in there ruts and pulled into the ditch. Either you dig your way free or pay another redneck to pull you out.

I think that happens pretty much all over the state. I live in Central Indiana and that is definitely a common thing around here as well. I participated when I was 16-17, but only on one road and one yard in particular because I figured they wouldn't notice due to how their yard and the road were. I drove a Jeep at the time, but now I have a Ford Focus and wouldn't dream about driving through someone's yard to begin with even if I had a vehicle that could handle it. .
 
If it's not called marriage than they don't have equal rights. I think the majority of gay couples would certainly prefer marriage than being in a civil union. Even the name sounds unfriendly and formal.

umm, all it matters is what the state calls it. if the state calls civil union for anyone wanting to get married (straight or gay), then it is equal rights and it wouldn't matter

Oh lol, my mad.

my bad
 
Oh lol, my mad.

Heh, I read it exactly the same way and had the same reaction as you; big cities in India and Thailand are the scariest places I've personally seen, as a motorist or pedestrian. The large number of two-wheeled two-stroke vehicles zipping all over the place make things especially frightening.
 
I roadtripped the US recently with a few mates, from Vegas to New York via Tennessee, Texas, Arkansas, Chicago, etc, and we didn't really find any issues with the driving, besides the fact everyone basically drives monster trucks. We saw one little hatchback in Indianapolis and I was almost compelled to take a picture.

All the roads are straight as an arrow and well maintained, besides some parts of Route 66 for obvious reasons. The highways were great, and we were surprised how courteous people were and how almost everyone follows road laws well.

New York cabbies should be stunt drivers, all of them. The way they manoeuvre a car with such precision was terrifying and impressive. They were hitting gaps with inches to spare like it was nothing. Respect!
 

Ikael

Member
The context of racism in America I feel is much different than in Europe *snip*

I don't really see America as being "over-sensitive" to racism. I more so see America as confronting race issues head on instead of sweeping them under the rug.

This is a very complex issue, but I would like to give an extensive reply from an outsider since you have kindly offered a very well-thought opinion on this matter :)

As I view it, the current state of the racial discourse in America has its roots on the weakness of its left-wing. Yes it sounds bizarre, but let me ellaborate on that.

Since the cold war, the political discourse in the US has shunned everything that sounds remotely similar to "class warfare". The US right wing ideological dominance as a result of decades of anti-communism, have made a series of issues an absolute taboo for any American politician and thus can't be questioned nowadays: gun control, wealth redistribution, the "though on crime" stance, you name it. As a result, there's only a handful of issues that your left wing can discuss without being mauled to death in the public sphere, chiefly among them, racism. Enter the "everything is racism" type of discourse. Yes, there was a horrible segregation system in place when the Democrats started to turn into the "anti-racist party" so it made a huge deal of sense back then, and there were was a legal guerrilla warfare after said system was dismantled, but the problem is that this discourse has carried on with a huge inertial well beyond the defeat of Jim Crow and its acolytes.

The problem that I have with that is that nowadays racism has become the prefered, universal paradigm for explaining every single inequality issue in the USA under the sun, because it is the most politically safe opinion that the left wing can express (no plutocrat can get upset with that type or reasoning of inequality caused mainly by racism, rather than wealth concentration) and it allows Democrats to play identity politics. While ellectorally effective, this has terrible implications, for boh the public discourse and the very minorities that they intend to help. Minorities can't be helped unless social mobility is improved and agressively tackled on. It is the meat and potatoes of their struggle, with racism making far less of an effect than most people would believe. Most things attributed to racism in the US has to do with deep economic unequalities (plus stereotypes associated to poverty) and it shows a huge deal of "correlation implying causation": type of reasoning income gap, educative gap, incarceration rates, you name it. It is no coincidence that these are the long term untackled problems of the US system: you need a big deal of political bravery to talk and treat them.

But this is not what the vast majority of Americans wants to hear. Everyone wants to be told that the American dream is alive and well, and that the only thing between theirselves and their dream is their hard work and a caricaturesque racist man (replace him with an evil crypto-communist if you're a republican). It is oversimplistic, it is false, and it is hurtful in the long term, as laws designed with this unrealistic scenario on mind are mightily uneffective at making a dent into the racial gap , some even backfire horribly, and the constant racial awarness brings, paradoxically, more feeling of opression in return, truthly a case of "don't think about white elephants".

Yes, there's a racial discourse in Europe, but one where racism is yet another problem for minorities, rather than THE problem or the Alpha and Omega of their existance. When the public discourse is focused around the problems that affects every racial group, even if minorities are the ones most affected by it, it is far more easier for the general public to empatize and deal with them: incarceration becomes "our" problem rather than "the black community problem", poverty becomes a national issue, rather than a "Minority problem", "inmigration" becomes, well "vainilla inmigration", not "latino obsessing time", and so on. Then again, this is the advantage of not having these kind of right wing taboos: our left wing can talk about socialism, poverty, wealth redistribution and so forth without needing to link them to the racism present in every society in order to make them palatable for the public. This do not guarantee any kind of racial utopia, as you can painfully see in the rise of anti-inmigration feelings, but this give us a far greater deal of flexibility when designing social policies attempting to close racial gaps, and it makes it for a far less tense racial discourse, too, since racism becames just another piece of the puzzle rather than the rosetta stone.
 

First off I agree with many points you make. However I would say that while you have the fact they seem out of order. Racism isn't the effect of Americans anti-social justice stance its arguably the cause or at the barebones least part part of the catalyst. Let me take you back to the 1960s. This is when American leftism was arguably at the peak. Welfare was at the levels of around Europe, government programs were widely available, and where wages for jobs like fast food workers would have been all that far off from $15 an hour. By the time the 1960s where over it wasn't all that long until America started slipping into conservationism with Nixon and then it went full force with Reagan. Now this happened pretty much throughout all the West (save for France who arrived to the party a bit late), but nothing that came as radical of a departure as America. Not even Maggie's United Kingdom.

The answer lies in the Southern Strategy headed by Richart Nixon. How do you get the poorest area of America to be the most corporate ballwashing anti-poverty anti-poor area of the country? Say that the niggers African-Americans are taking all of the welfare. They are taking YOUR money! This is what gave birth to the conservative revolution. And to this day it still pioneers it.

Just go to any American Politics thread and you constantly see news bits (and posts) from the right-no the mainstream American voice constantly saying "we need to give money to those who need it because some people (wink-wink) abuse it." Or "the problem isn't the lack of money but that some Americans (wink-wink) need to back to our traditional culture of the 1950s". You want to know the REAL reason why so many Americans are against free healthcare? I was driving home from work with my brother one day. I brought up the topic of how stupid our healthcare system is. Now at the time my brother was on food stamps, lacked a stable job, was uninsured, and paid $100 a month for pills for his condition. I told him that free health care would work because its practiced everywhere else in the Western world. His response "It couldn't work here because America is different, other countries don't have blacks and Latinos who would take advantage of the system. That's the way it is." Other than his lack of education in civics (I'll brush upon this later), this is how Americans think. Extend welfare? The blacks and Latinos will just abuse it and won't work. Get better wages? Blacks and Latinos will just stay in minimum wage jobs. This is the entire thought process of many Americans. They will deny it, but push them enough and they'll say it. Americans really believe that America is "different" than Europe. While this may be true to an extent it is nowhere near to the point that they believe and every bit as exaggerated as they exaggerate crime in the streets (I.E. South Side of Chicago = San Salvador).

Yes the anti-communist rhetoric had something to do with America's rightward shit. Nobody is deny that. But when it was at its peak so was American leftism. It wasn't the sole contributor. I personally agree with everything you said about class being the real problem. The problem with that is when many Americans hear things like "reduce income inequality" = "blacks and Latinos want more money for themselves to take from white people". Or "we need to invest in education" = "waste more money on brown and black kids who won't learn." Again they will deny it but get them alone and talk to them they'll admit it. Of course there are plenty of Americans who are conservative not because they dislike minorities but poor people, but many overlap and when you combine those that hate poor to the ones that hate minority they are a force to be reckon with.

Your theory on why the left weak is close, but has a flaw. Talking about racism when running for office? Yeah you lose. Done. Finished. You can hint toward racism when you on one side of the aisle, but once you even give a slight nudge that you are for helping brown people gain an edge over whites, done. You will not be elected. President Obama is the first non-fully white president we have ever had and I don't believe he has ever commented on racism in the manner you speak of. The only time I can recall was the Trayvon Martin incident when what he said boiled down to "Look white people, give us blacks a break. I was followed around stores before. Just don't assume that we are all killers." The sad part is that sentence isn't that much of a hyperbole. The Democrats literally have NOTHING to stand on other than saying "We aren't as far right as the Republicans." They are possibly the most take no action party ever. This is because the right wing's way of thinking is so dominate in the country. The best nation I can compare the situation to is Venezuela, in which one party has gone so far on one side of the political spectrum that the other party is pretty much just a catch all party. Its not quite that serious yet but with the way things are going they are getting there. When the Democrats held a super majority they couldn't even pass a public option for healthcare. What passed was the Romney plan! I repeat the only plan that the Democrats agreed to pass was the plan laid out by the Democratic Presidential candidate's rival! That says EVERYTHING about the Democrats really.

In terms of affirmative action, that Atlantic article is bullshit. Its been widely acknowledged that affirmative action in school has been very beneficial to blacks and Latinos. Plenty of studies have shown that the best way for people to improve their school performance is to lump the underperforming students with the overperforming ones as Finland has shown in its education model. The Atlantic really has been on a roll lately with its articles. Affirmative action has to be strengthened as a whole if anything. As its been shown study by study that blacks with an average record are a bit less likely to receive job offers than white felons.

America's problem is the lack of understanding how society works. The concept of structural functionalism is so absent in this country its ridiculous. People don't see our incarceration rate as problem because "they're black and probably deserve it" (soon 1/3 black males and 1/6 Latino males will have been incarcerated in their lifetimes), they don't want to invest in schools because "its a waste of money. The problem with this is not only are these people are significant part of the country, but these policies effect everybody. Americans are very absent minded in terms of why a collectivist culture is better than an individualistic one (something that wasn't a problem forty years ago). Americans don't understand why poorer people having money would be good for their society. "Invest it to become middle class and have a more competitive society you say? Pipe dream most will just by rims and lowrider gear. What it will a generation or to and it has to be done because in the long run it will be better for the country? Well why do I have to give MY money then!?" Civics and the concept of "take care of your society and society will take care of you" is very absent minded in this country. And its rooted from the Southern Strategy. You can't separate America's class problems from its race problems.

There does seem to be light at the end of the tunnel though. Millennials are the most Democratic voting generation since the Great Depression Era. A lot of this is due to minorities becoming more of a majority as well as the young whites moving more leftward. Things will change. Comparing America and Europe in regards to race to me is a bit difficult because both places have had a very different history and fallout when it comes to race. And really being honest I don't see race as that in your face here. The only time I get offended by people is when foreigners say something along the lines of "Well you aren't a real American because you aren't white" or when rednecks (who I hardly know) call me "Muhammad" and think its a joke. If you want to talk openness, well fine I'll be open. If II don't like something you said to me I'm going to say it. If you stereotype me or say something about my race I don't like then I'm going to tell you. And again, I rarely see the brouhaha of being "oversensitive". Unless you joke around by saying "Oh did you receive your welfare check today" to a black friend or call a Latino a "spic". To me it seems that people come here to a place with boundaries that don't exist in their own countries and feel uncomfortable.
 
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