Killing_Joke
Member
Yeah, not getting that vibe at all. Go grind for 20 hours while others spend 2 min. This type of thinking doesn't belong in $60 games with $50 season passes.
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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Yeah, not getting that vibe at all. Go grind for 20 hours while others spend 2 min. This type of thinking doesn't belong in $60 games with $50 season passes.
Delusibeta
Banned
Not without buying them in career mode first.
NullPointer
Member
I THINK THEY'RE BEING DISINGENUOUS.
And remember, those season passes and car passes don't cover the entire cost of those cars. You still have to pay the separate in-game token cost to add them to your garage. And this thread is purely talking about those token costs. So for DLC cars this is in addition to any costs for passes.
That's it in a nutshell.
Honey Bunny
Member
I know that, but I'm essentially talking about the lack of alternatives/competition for sim racing fans on consoles and all the benefits that come from having those alternatives. If an Xbox One owner likes sim racing, doesn't want to support these practices but doesn't have the money to buy another console, what does he do?
And while GT6 is nowhere near Forza's level yet, with currency you can now buy and the extra money they'll no doubt rake in from that I expect them to get there - just more slowly. Then GT fans will be left with the same dilemma.
Thinking about it more, it's a strange situation given how much GT and Forza sell that there are so few imitators.
Sylvrfonic
Member
I find it hard to believe that this Microsoft would do this out of the gate with their first party titles. It seems like it would be nice to ease this stuff into the next gen rather than do a cannon ball into the gross end of the pool.
theonerayman
Member
Iv been lurking on gaf for awhile and never posted, but I feel this is enough to post on. Iv looked around this topic and seen a ton of mis-information or misleading information.
I've got about 15 hours into Forza 5 thus far. Are some cars expensive? Yes, but you get a very decent amount of credits or even the early races. Depending on the difficulty and assists you have on even the first series races earn 5-6k each. Someone said they took out affinity. That is incorrect. After each race you earn XP for yourself and for your affinity. Also when leveling its true you no longer receive a car BUT they give you a bunch of credits. I got 30K for hitting level 2 and its gone up from there.
So while the cars are expensive making money in this game is kind of a joke, im sitting over a million credits and havent "grinded" or credits one time. Its all just gotten through the progression of the game.
All that being said if you listen to Turn 10 in interviews (Especially the one Greenwalt did with Sessler) they said they wanted the option in the game for people who wanted to avoid putting in the time. And thats fine. I never understood it personally, but hey more power to people. But you shouldnt fault a game for giving people options to be lazy. But getting some of those 4 million credit cars is going to be a joke later on as again, iv already saved up a million and thats from just the 1st few series. Money is not hard to make in this game.
I've got about 15 hours into Forza 5 thus far. Are some cars expensive? Yes, but you get a very decent amount of credits or even the early races. Depending on the difficulty and assists you have on even the first series races earn 5-6k each. Someone said they took out affinity. That is incorrect. After each race you earn XP for yourself and for your affinity. Also when leveling its true you no longer receive a car BUT they give you a bunch of credits. I got 30K for hitting level 2 and its gone up from there.
So while the cars are expensive making money in this game is kind of a joke, im sitting over a million credits and havent "grinded" or credits one time. Its all just gotten through the progression of the game.
All that being said if you listen to Turn 10 in interviews (Especially the one Greenwalt did with Sessler) they said they wanted the option in the game for people who wanted to avoid putting in the time. And thats fine. I never understood it personally, but hey more power to people. But you shouldnt fault a game for giving people options to be lazy. But getting some of those 4 million credit cars is going to be a joke later on as again, iv already saved up a million and thats from just the 1st few series. Money is not hard to make in this game.
dragonelite
Member
Yeah you can rent cars for free i just tried it this afternoon.
You just dont get credits for the races you do.
I mean non campaign races that is not sure how its online.
leatherhat
Member
What a joke. Hopefully Polyphony stays far away from this kind of business model.
only some cars are rentable though
I don't mind games including an option to buy your way through the game, as long as the core mechanic of earning in game cash and buying new cars is unaffected. It is cheating, but if people are dumb enough to spend actual money on virtual cars, let them have the option to do so. Haven't played Forza 5 yet, so I don't know if the game forces You to grind longer to get the cars with in game cash. I have a feeling it does.
Soon enough:
- cars You get as a prize for winning races/championships will be gone,
- winning races will hardly pay for repairing car damage, you will need to grind for days to afford a single upgrade or towards a more competitive car,
- races will become increasingly more difficult to win without constantly upgrading your car,
- AI cars will attempt to inflict as much damage on Your car as possible to make saving up for cars even more difficult,
- you will need to spend cash to enter races,
- there will be a limit as to how many races you can do during a set period of time to discourage grinders further,
- timers that You can skip by spending tokens,
In short, Forza and possibly GT will be a lot more like Real Racing 3 in the future and I will be playing something else instead.
Soon enough:
- cars You get as a prize for winning races/championships will be gone,
- winning races will hardly pay for repairing car damage, you will need to grind for days to afford a single upgrade or towards a more competitive car,
- races will become increasingly more difficult to win without constantly upgrading your car,
- AI cars will attempt to inflict as much damage on Your car as possible to make saving up for cars even more difficult,
- you will need to spend cash to enter races,
- there will be a limit as to how many races you can do during a set period of time to discourage grinders further,
- timers that You can skip by spending tokens,
In short, Forza and possibly GT will be a lot more like Real Racing 3 in the future and I will be playing something else instead.
NullPointer
Member
Its not that they took out affinity - its that affinity no longer provides discounts on upgrades.
In Forza 4 it wouldn't take long to develop enough affinity with a manufacturer to get all of their upgrades for free.
This is a good point.
And for anybody who might justify these practices as a way to deal with used games cutting into their bottom lines, how about removing all of this stuff from the digital versions?
Dreams-Visions
Member
If the game was F2P and the purchased cars could be sold/traded, I'd be okay with this.
But this game is not F2P, the cars probably can't be traded, and those prices are absurd.
But this game is not F2P, the cars probably can't be traded, and those prices are absurd.
soundscream
Member
Since when does racing = grinding, in a racing game. I have raced in 5 races and have bought 2 cars and have $100,000+ in the bank. Not to mention the $10,000 my drivatar earned while I wasn't playing. Never used a token, never will.
ChosenPredator
Banned
for most of the xbox games I've played I haven't felt like i need to use any money what so ever, I figured crimson dragon would be a money greed grabbing game but I've bought everything with in game money nothing feels like im paying extra - I dunno you'd have to ask the people who actually have this game if they even notice there is micro transactions lol
dragonelite
Member
Aah oke i only finished the first set of races.
And wanted to try manual first in a custom race setting.
I saw renting there selection was limited but i though that was because didn't progress so far in the game.
Did Forza 4 give extra prize money based on affinity also, or no? Its been a while
You saved up 1 million credits in 15 hours, so 4 million credits if the monetary payout for races increases would have you sitting at over 30 in-game hours of play for a single 4 million credit car purchase? (giving benefit of the doubt that race win payout increases so that you will quadruple your current savings in another 15 hours)
Isn't that still a bit extreme? 30 hours in Skyrim gets you close to a maxed character with some of the best gear in the game. 30 hours in Forza gets you one top-tier car?
NullPointer
Member
Yes, it did. Bonus cash and significant discounts.
Wait so you have to pay for dlc and then pay again to be able to use the car? Wtf Microsoft?
theonerayman
Member
In career mode you dont need to even buy upgrades. So your not spending money on each series. Lets say your doing an A class race and you buy a new car for the series and its a D class car. They auto-upgrade it to A class as close to being the max number (I think A is 500..but I dont remember exactly) Now you can go in and change the upgrades if you wish. But the AI auto-upgrades the car.
The Ferrari F1 car costs 3.5 mil in credits so its going to be around that price.
And the posts above save you get 5-6k credits per race depending on game difficulty
NullPointer
Member
Thats not even new with Forza 5, and has been the case for a while now.
Whats new is just how much some of these cars cost in tokens, the costs of the token packages themselves, and how many methods of accruing in-game cars, revenue and discounts have been removed.
Upgrades are free in Forza 5?
My point exactly. I hate when people use the term "grind", especially in GT5 context.
In GT5 we had the following high-payoff systems:
- Seasonal Events
- Online Racing
- B-Spec Remote Racing
..and Login Bonus for the hefty 200% multiplier for the past 18 months of the game.
Earning 20M credits was either matter of 2-3 hours of racing sheer spread of various Seasonal Events races or simple playing your main-profile B-Spec Bobs from the second profile in constant stream of B-Spec Remote Races while doing whatever else on your PC. Once the Daily Bonus was introduced, 20M become an easy goal.
Same with the FM4 and Rivals, I earned zillions only in playing Rivals and smart management of advancement through self-sustaining of going full-maximum.
Sometimes I wonder do people even know how to play the games they're criticizing.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Can someone please add up the cost of the game, plus the season pass, plus all the cars (if you pay for them with tokens) and give me a total?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
There is a rumour they got all this content for free anyway.
The Euros didn't so they picked up on it more.
NullPointer
Member
To be fair you're pretty hardcore.
I'd guess that most of us, even on GAF won't end up putting up that kind of investment into these games, so the progression will feel slower and longer.
For instance I don't play GT5 online or B-Spec. So all I have is the career, and that becomes a grind when I find myself repeating some events purely for the money. Seasonal events do help though.
Here's the price of the Lotus E21. Twice as expenisve as some of the other F1 cars in the game. Screencap from Giantbomb quick look
EDIT : Lied. not 5k-6k per race. Sorry. Only for the first few races. Game is just like past Forzas. Later races earn you more credits + lsome leveling up awards = more cash
SO 5k-6k credits per race. Lots of racing
EDIT : Lied. not 5k-6k per race. Sorry. Only for the first few races. Game is just like past Forzas. Later races earn you more credits + lsome leveling up awards = more cash
theonerayman
Member
Couple of things. I was blowing money on stupid things early on. Messing around with car setups, seeing if I could do better than what the AI did for me. Also im still doing the early races. The higher class of the race the more money you get. If I had continued on and moved up in series I would have way way more money than I already do. career mode is progression. You pick a series and it has 5-8 races for the series then 5-8 bonus races. You get money for each race then you get a big hunk of change for completing the series.
And to answer another person who i dont know how to double quote...yeah sorry. You dont pay for the upgrades that the AI auto adds (atleast it doesnt appear that you do. I couldnt tell a price difference in the few cars iv bought from their normal price and the price I paid for the fully class upgraded car)
Delusibeta
Banned
Plus there's really been no Forza equivalent to the silly number of credits you can get in the recent Seasonal Events in GT5. You don't get millions of credits per race in Forza.
qa_engineer
Member
I guess all we can do as gamers is speak with out wallets.
Its one thing if the micro transactions are a means of enhancing a f2p game, its another when a publisher chooses to nickel and dime gamers after they've already paid full price for a game.
I understand that games are very expensive to produce, but publishers should not result to nickel and dimong the consumer to recoup these costs.
I really hope this isn't the future of gaming. If so, I will boycott ALL the games
Its one thing if the micro transactions are a means of enhancing a f2p game, its another when a publisher chooses to nickel and dime gamers after they've already paid full price for a game.
I understand that games are very expensive to produce, but publishers should not result to nickel and dimong the consumer to recoup these costs.
I really hope this isn't the future of gaming. If so, I will boycott ALL the games
I know I don't. I like racing games, but I don't spend 100 hours on them.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Honestly I do not have an issue with micro transactions as long as they are held in check. The problem I have is when the normal version is constructed in such a way to push the micro transactions. IF Forza can be played like every other Forza then this is not an issue. IF on the other hand you are stuck racing for ten hours to buy one car, then we have a major problem.
And other Microsoft games have been like this on XB1, right? Wasn't Crimson Dragon fucked over by microtransactions?
This kind of stuff damn near negates the DRM removal, especially when at an extreme Microsoft could pressure third parties to do similar with their games or at least how they may be allowed to price and value consumable DLC. That DOES sound like a stretch admittedly, but keep in mind they've been dictating the value of DLC or seeming to, blocking free DLC and seemingly having minimum prices that are permitted, actively skewing the "free market" so we didn't get, say, Sleeping Dogs DLC at $5.
This kind of stuff damn near negates the DRM removal, especially when at an extreme Microsoft could pressure third parties to do similar with their games or at least how they may be allowed to price and value consumable DLC. That DOES sound like a stretch admittedly, but keep in mind they've been dictating the value of DLC or seeming to, blocking free DLC and seemingly having minimum prices that are permitted, actively skewing the "free market" so we didn't get, say, Sleeping Dogs DLC at $5.
NullPointer
Member
Ok honest question. If you had 0 credits right now, how many hours would it take you to buy a single 4 million credit car if you came in 1st place every time?
holy mother of god
MarshMellow96
Member
NullPointer
Member
So that one car is over $100?
Edit: Right, its about $150?
No shit. This is insanity.
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