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[Jonm1010]

The vast majority of cars are perfectly affordable. Some are downright cheap. Normal playing will get you the ability to buy these cars just fine.

The cars that cost $1 million+ will be affordable by normal playing as well, but obviously only with people who put a bit more time into the game.

Some people are basically using the phrase 'the grind' interchangeably with 'playing the game normally', adding a very negative connotation to what the game is like. Now, if you don't like racing that much, then yes, you may feel like you're just having to grind your way through the game as racing will just be a means to an end. For me, its opposite and buying cars is just a means to race. So it depends on how you look at it, I guess.

As someone who literally hasn't played Forza before except at a demo station I'd be interested to see someone crunch the numbers to see if this is true.

I think with a little bit of time and little math one could deduce whether this Forza has really increased the grind or not and if so by how much.


However the repealing of prize cars and having to earn DLC cars seems pretty blatant to me.

 

[Dragon]

The vast majority of cars are perfectly affordable. Some are downright cheap. Normal playing will get you the ability to buy these cars just fine.

The cars that cost $1 million+ will be affordable by normal playing as well, but obviously only with people who put a bit more time into the game.

Some people are basically using the phrase 'the grind' interchangeably with 'playing the game normally', adding a very negative connotation to what the game is like. Now, if you don't like racing that much, then yes, you may feel like you're just having to grind your way through the game as racing will just be a means to an end. For me, its opposite and buying cars is just a means to race. So it depends on how you look at it, I guess.

It doesn't depend how you look at it. In game currency to buy things to move on, or gain items, or anything of the sort, is gross and destroys the balance of the game. When you consider shit that happens in multiplayer games it's even more ridiculous. Not sure why you're defending it, or maybe I am...

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I think gamers are becoming more and more hysterical about NOTHING - the amount of outcrying / shitstorming leading up to the launch was simply miserable imo, and had more to do with social media and crazy gamers than any substantial problems (imo again).

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Also go ahead and explain your points on the web. (Explain, not cry out for something you won't buy / support anyways)

But the amount of weeping of entitled gamers

Ok buddy, stopped reading right here.

 

[BPoole]

This is disgusting. Things like this are why I refuse to support the Xbox brand. Shame on Sony as well for implementing this deal into GT6 as well

 

[Seanspeed]

Hell, they even took tracks out to sell later.

Its amazing the amount of false information people are spreading around.

 

[Frumix]

Somebody should calculate ingame time required vs average IRL job time required to afford the unlocks.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

This is another issue nobody in game media will talk about

 

[SneakyStephan]

Was this the ass storm cboat warned about btw or what did that end up being?

 

[klaus]

Ok buddy, stopped reading right here.

That's OK, I know my words are very harsh - perhaps I'm also overreacting. Peace

Edit: Removed the last part of the post in question..

 

[Izayoi]

So it is like buying a shortcut.

Why is this being complained about? It is entirely optional, and the only people who would take advantage of this are those that don't want to work through the games progression. If you are one of those people why would you purchase the game anyways?

Did you bother reading the thread? The problem is not the shortcut, the problem is that the game is designed to make you spend real money on microtransactions at the expense of those who choose not to pay.

There have been multiple lists of things that changed in order to fit this agenda posted in the thread so far.

 

[tha_devil]

This is another issue nobody in game media will talk about

Yes this sucks, i mean journalist get everything for free so they don't pay attention.

If the media would take notice, and just score forza really lower.

This will affect sales and this will effect their policy,

 

[RedSwirl]

I really hope that some of the F2P games showing up on PS4 like WarFrame, War Thunder, and PlanetSide 2 end up setting the stage for what are acceptable monetization schemes on consoles. F2P on PC really has reached a level where it's at least tolerable. Hopefully console developers can learn from that instead of repeating all the mistakes of mobile and early F2P PC games.

 

[Izayoi]

That's OK, I know my words are very harsh - perhaps I'm also overreacting. Peace

Yeah, we're entitled for not wanting a giant corporation to fuck us in the ass. Hoo boy, you got me!

 

[Jonm1010]

I think gamers are becoming more and more hysterical about NOTHING - the amount of outcrying / shitstorming leading up to the launch was simply miserable imo, and had more to do with social media and crazy gamers than any substantial problems (imo again).

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Also go ahead and explain your points on the web. (Explain, not cry out for something you won't buy / support anyways)

But the amount of weeping of entitled gamers is starting to really piss me off - it seems you can't read any threads on gaf now without a substantial group of people crying about something they ABSOLUTELY deserve, since they are gamers and therefore entitled to everything lol

I really think gamers should grow some balls & stop acting like 10 year olds... But maybe that's just me

This is a pretty generalizing statement and frankly makes you come off like the worse kind of sucker. The kind that just swallows whatever someone feeds them and gets mad at anyone else go doesn't like it. Even if those people are making reasonable points.

 

[Broder Salsa]

It is pretty disgusting, but I expected nothing else.

 

[eek5]

making unobtainable real life cars almost unobtainable in the game is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. I want to play the game so I can experience cars I'd never have access to in the first place.. smh

 

[ironcreed]

Its amazing the amount of false information people are spreading around.

What is it, 14 tracks vs the 26 in Forza 4? Mkay.

 

[bud]

Its amazing the amount of false information people are spreading around.

if they did it with the cars (see the day one dlc), why wouldn't they do it with the tracks?

 

[Open Source]

But hey, you can buy it used! So it's all good!

This is exactly what I warned would happen. The complete $60 disc game was a dead man walking. The options to replace it were:

a) $60 games that could be sold used, but that were loaded with nasty microtransaction-based design (not just microtransactions, but design that made using them the preferred way to play)
b) $60 games that could not be bought used

The masses chose a). I preferred b).

Have fun with it.

 

[qa_engineer]

So what do we do about this?

 

[Seanspeed]

As someone who literally hasn't played Forza before except at a demo station I'd be interested to see someone crunch the numbers to see if this is true.

I think with a little bit of time and little math one could deduce whether this Forza has really increased the grind or not and if so by how much.


However the repealing of prize cars and having to earn DLC cars seems pretty blatant to me.

I think you need to read what I was responding to(somebody saying that grinding was the only way to get cars). People are using this 'grind' word differently and its creating a lot of misleading perceptions and information.

It doesn't depend how you look at it. In game currency to buy things to move on, or gain items, or anything of the sort, is gross and destroys the balance of the game. When you consider shit that happens in multiplayer games it's even more ridiculous. Not sure why you're defending it, or maybe I am...

Don't bother trying to understand what I was saying, its cool. I'm getting quite used to it. People are more worried about being outraged than understanding the nuances behind this.

 

[Frumix]

But hey, you can buy it used! So it's all good!

This is exactly what I warned would happen. The complete $60 disc game was a dead man walking. The options to replace it were:

a) $60 games that could be sold used, but that were loaded with nasty microtransaction-based design (not just microtransactions, but design that made using them the preferred way to play)
b) $60 games that could not be bought used

The masses chose a). I preferred b).

Have fun with it.

So you're saying "We can't screw up the customers this way so we'll screw them up the other way then" is an excusable modus operandi? Come on.

 

[LostVector]

Now we're starting to see the end game of a driving franchise driven by short sighted marketing droids that neither understand gaming nor car culture. Prioritizing graphics and useless flashiness like "Autovista" and "Kinect" driving while sending real improvements like weather, night time driving, online racing features, multi-screen and more realistic tuning to the curb. This de-evolution has been in the works for years.

Dan G. has been increasingly full of **** with each successive release. It's time the press and the gaming community call him and the rest of Turn 10 out so that the franchise can either start heading in the right direction or else wither on the vine.

 

[Unknown One]

People who defend this doesn't understand that the game is balanced and made for monetizations. The grind is made like this to force people to pay when they get tired of grinding. That's why it takes so long to save for one car. It wouldn't be like this if it wasn't for that.

 

[klaus]

Yeah, we're entitled for not wanting a giant corporation to fuck us in the ass. Hoo boy, you got me!

Sticks & stones etc., vote with wallet etc.

This is a pretty generalizing statement and frankly makes you come off like the worse kind of sucker. The kind that just swallows whatever someone feeds them and gets mad at anyone else go doesn't like it. Even if those people are making reasonable points.

I edited my post. And I don't swallow such stuff - just as I don't like to cry on forums about things I don't buy ^^

 

[NullPointer]

Its amazing the amount of false information people are spreading around.

We don't know really, but I'm sure people assume that it'll be paid DLC because, well, look at the track record here.

But yeah, it is too early to state things like that as fact. We won't know til when, December?

vote with wallet etc.

Before they can vote with their wallet they need to know the details.

 

[jem0208]

Really not a big deal.

Seeing this quote....



So it is like buying a shortcut.

Why is this being complained about? It is entirely optional, and the only people who would take advantage of this are those that don't want to work through the games progression. If you are one of those people why would you purchase the game anyways?

Basically.


The prices are a little scummy though, I can't imagine anybody paying so much money.

 

[darkwing]

So what do we do about this?

just earn in-game currency and don't buy the shortcut

 

[Honey Bunny]

But hey, you can buy it used! So it's all good!

This is exactly what I warned would happen. The complete $60 disc game was a dead man walking. The options to replace it were:

a) $60 games that could be sold used, but that were loaded with nasty microtransaction-based design (not just microtransactions, but design that made using them the preferred way to play)
b) $60 games that could not be bought used

The masses chose a). I preferred b).

Have fun with it.

You're really so naive to think that used game DRM would somehow lead publishers to end micro-transactions..

 

[Jonm1010]

I think you need to read what I was responding to(somebody saying that grinding was the only way to get cars). People are using this 'grind' word differently and its creating a lot of misleading perceptions and information.


Don't bother trying to understand what I was saying, its cool. I'm getting quite used to it. People are more worried about being outraged than understanding the nuances behind this.

And I'm making the point that there is a very easy way to determine whether this grind in Forza is really an increase to past franchise installments and if so by how much.

 

[Outtrigger888]

Really not a big deal.

Seeing this quote....



So it is like buying a shortcut.

Why is this being complained about? It is entirely optional, and the only people who would take advantage of this are those that don't want to work through the games progression. If you are one of those people why would you purchase the game anyways?

I remember when shorcuts via cheatcodes, for free, were a thing.

 

[leatherhat]

But hey, you can buy it used! So it's all good!

This is exactly what I warned would happen. The complete $60 disc game was a dead man walking. The options to replace it were:

a) $60 games that could be sold used, but that were loaded with nasty microtransaction-based design (not just microtransactions, but design that made using them the preferred way to play)
b) $60 games that could not be bought used

The masses chose a). I preferred b).

Have fun with it.

You're crazy if you think this was put in due to no DRM

 

[Izayoi]

Sticks & stones etc., vote with wallet etc.

I edited my post. And I don't swallow such stuff - just as I don't like to cry on forums about things I don't buy ^^

So... we have no right to complain when our favorite franchises are ruined by invasive money-grubbing schemes? We're just supposed to sit quietly and watch it happen?

...Are you serious?

 

[FuturusX]

making unobtainable real life cars almost unobtainable in the game is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. I want to play the game so I can experience cars I'd never have access to in the first place.. smh

You don't want the simulation of being an average person. I am right there with you.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

But hey, you can buy it used! So it's all good!

This is exactly what I warned would happen. The complete $60 disc game was a dead man walking. The options to replace it were:

a) $60 games that could be sold used, but that were loaded with nasty microtransaction-based design (not just microtransactions, but design that made using them the preferred way to play)
b) $60 games that could not be bought used

The masses chose a). I preferred b).

Have fun with it.

I'm going to guess that you're one of those "family plan" truthers.

 

[Seanspeed]

What is it, 14 tracks vs the 26 in Forza 4? Mkay.

You're completely speculating as to why that is and trying to pass it off as fact. I don't know what GAF you visit, but that's usually pretty shabby practice in the one I do.

And I'm making the point that there is a very easy way to determine whether this grind in Forza is really an increase to past franchise installments and if so by how much.

And you continue to not realize what I was saying....

 

[NullPointer]

But hey, you can buy it used! So it's all good!

This is exactly what I warned would happen. The complete $60 disc game was a dead man walking. The options to replace it were:

a) $60 games that could be sold used, but that were loaded with nasty microtransaction-based design (not just microtransactions, but design that made using them the preferred way to play)
b) $60 games that could not be bought used

The masses chose a). I preferred b).

Have fun with it.

OK, then why not make the digital versions include all this used-games-are-killing-us DLC and accelerator microtransactions?

You can't trade those versions in.

Maybe, just maybe, we would have ended up with always-online AND free-to-play transactional elements in our full retail games because that brings in more revenue. Because they can.

 

[Partial Gamification]

So what do we do about this?

Nothing until it is clear wtf is going on with the microtransaction pricing in EU and US. Perhaps there was a mistake, and there will be refunds and apologies and all that stuff.

If it isn't cleared up by Monday, there are organizations to contact that will look out for the customer. At least they might look at the situation and decide if there was something malicious going on. The fact minors might could potentially be spending money on this, the Feds (US) will get involved if indeed they are abusing the pricing scheme.

 

[Izayoi]

So what do we do about this?

Go here, and make a stink about it.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Yes this sucks, i mean journalist get everything for free so they don't pay attention.

If the media would take notice, and just score forza really lower.

This will affect sales and this will effect their policy,

Exactly. It should weigh into scoring the game. I don't care if a game is selling cars to people who don't wanna bother playing for them. But to make attaining those cars more difficult in game in order to sell them is so wrong. Forza is basically a $60 free to play game

 

[Dueck]

Really not a big deal.

Seeing this quote....



So it is like buying a shortcut.

Why is this being complained about? It is entirely optional, and the only people who would take advantage of this are those that don't want to work through the games progression. If you are one of those people why would you purchase the game anyways?

Because people live to complain. Being judgmental is a part of human nature, stemming from things like "that animal could probably kill me" to "that branch looks unsafe." Lacking those survival needs, the impulse directs itself to annoying new avenues for us all to enjoy.

 

[NullPointer]

Because people live to complain.

Way to dismiss everybody here. Thanks for your contribution.

 

[ironcreed]

You're completely speculating as to why that is and trying to pass it off as fact. I don't know what GAF you visit, but that's usually pretty shabby practice in the one I do.

Considering the track count vs Forza 4 and what else they are pulling here, I would not exactly call it a stretch to come to such a conclusion. But whatever, bud. I'm sure they have our best interests at heart.

 

[faberpach]

It is an amazing game loving it but they really fucked it with the way you get cars in this game.... I have played for quite a lot and it feels so slow to get new cars I loved in old forza how easy was to get a big garage and try more wacky cars you are not really interested. Now why would you waste 35k on small model to try how it is when that is quite a lot of time of play....

It is a shame...

 

[Hoo-doo]

I just noticed they put the Bugatti Veyron behind the 20$ DLC "VIP" pack as well in the GB quicklook.
One of the most iconic and obvious hypercars today. Ugh. It should be right there to play for the 60$ you spent.

 

[foamdino]

How does this impact competitive racing? Is it possible for someone who bought (with real $) a car to race against someone who 'earned' the car in game?

If it is that seems a little pay2win. Oh look I lost that race against merc slr, better splash out some cash on a fezza.

 

[inky]

But hey, you can buy it used! So it's all good!

This is exactly what I warned would happen. The complete $60 disc game was a dead man walking. The options to replace it were:

a) $60 games that could be sold used, but that were loaded with nasty microtransaction-based design (not just microtransactions, but design that made using them the preferred way to play)
b) $60 games that could not be bought used

The masses chose a). I preferred b).

Have fun with it.

Yes, no used market would've meant ABSOLUTELY NO PAID DLC AND MICROTRANSACTIONS in $60 games.

Get real. Games that have absolutely no used market and are always online are filled to the brim with this shit. If you really believed that they would give up this revenue stream I don't even know what to tell you. You are more naive than my 6 yo niece.

 

[klaus]

So... we have no right to complain when our favorite franchises are ruined by invasive money-grubbing schemes? We're just supposed to sit quietly and watch it happen?

...Are you serious?

It seems that once again, I'm having troubles bringing my point across ^^

One more try: What I don't like reading is all that hyperbole, it doesn't help anyone (imo) and fills threads with (I am sorry) whiny posts that don't change a thing. I can perfectly well understand that some people don't like the changes they're making, but I only see 2 ways to change it:
1) Don't buy it if you don't like it
2) Explain (!) what is wrong with the new system / outline what needs to be changed in your opinion so others have to chance to agree / disagree

Writing things like "M$ tries to f*ck the users in the *ss" are worthless and don't help anyone, even if I can understand that some people are emotional about their beloved franchises.. It just reminds me so much of the beginning of last generation where people were going apeshit about dlc - and yet many of them went ahead and bought that stuff

 

[Jonm1010]

You're completely speculating as to why that is and trying to pass it off as fact. I don't know what GAF you visit, but that's usually pretty shabby practice in the one I do.


And you continue to not realize what I was saying....

I can read fine thanks. My point still stands. If people are complaining that Microsoft and the creators of Forza are intentionally doing things to their game design to encourage micro transactions then there are ways to actually prove or disprove that.

Or that their structure that allows and may even encourage it is hurting the experience.

And frankly just in the grouping of the last ten or so posts there are some pretty blatant examples of it.

However it seems undeniable that certain decisions such as the handling of DLC is geared toward extra monetary compensation that was unseen in prior games.

 

[Kaako]

$100 for a virtual car lol. Fuck supporting bullshit like this.