NullPointer
Member
And only 2.4 million credits after you buy it, or 4,000 tokens. Cheapest token pack that would let you get it is the 8,000 pack for $99.
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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Honey Bunny
Member
Oh right, forgot about that. The DLC cars are present in the car selection menus themselves already, even if you haven't downloaded the DLC. They just have that 'DLC' sign above them. And that muscle car event 'recommended' him one of the DLC cars or something. No shame.
Even if its paid DLC, it doesn't mean it was content purposefully withheld.
The reduced content is most likely due to the short development time, but I don't think people are in any mood to listen to reasoning right now.
The game is still $60 and is a bunch less stuff in it, does it matter what the reasoning is, if they introduce old stuff back as paid DLC?
How did you feel about GTA IV having a lot less stuff in than GTA SA?
NullPointer
Member
If I believed that I might wonder why the game was released at full price, with no less than a shitton of day one DLC and some of the most expensive DLC I've ever seen at that.
Honestly, I don't know what to think, but I wouldn't take straight up greed off the table. I mean, hell, even Hockenheim didn't make the cut?
This might be the most stupid thread so far this gen. Talk about hyperbole...
OmegaDL50
Member
You know it's probably cheaper to buy Forza 4 and all of it's DLC packs then to buy Forza 5 and the token bullshit to get the cars.
Of course owning an Xbox One is a given, the same owning a 360, so lets not factor the console pricing thing.
I'm speaking just from the pricing model of each game. Also are the graphics model for the vehicles in Forza 5 over Forza 4, THAT much of an improvement? I truly wonder about this.
Outside of Killer Instinct and Forza 5, those are the only two games that really caught my attention and desire for getting an Xbox One, now that Forza 5 is effectively "gutted" with all sorts of micro / macrotransaction nonsense, I am reconsidering getting an Xbox One.
I mean considering every Forza game starting with the 3rd game has it's share of DLC car packs and track packs, and it continued with Forza 4, but there comes to a point in which enough is enough to take the limit in regards to pushing the boundaries, and that ends with micro transactions for these "tokens"
One of my XBL friends goes by the name of FordGTGuy who is a hardcore Forza Motorsport fan, I'm not one to speak for others, but I doubt even he would tolerate this kind of bullshit.
IF they can justify this crap with Forza 5, they will do the same with Forza 6, you better believe it.
Lets just hope PD doesn't decide to use the logic "If they can do it, so can we" And thus Gran Turismo 7 will also be a victim of this circumstance and they also decide to omit 20% of the car list. I mean they already going to have the option to buy in-game credits for money in GT6.
Of course owning an Xbox One is a given, the same owning a 360, so lets not factor the console pricing thing.
I'm speaking just from the pricing model of each game. Also are the graphics model for the vehicles in Forza 5 over Forza 4, THAT much of an improvement? I truly wonder about this.
Outside of Killer Instinct and Forza 5, those are the only two games that really caught my attention and desire for getting an Xbox One, now that Forza 5 is effectively "gutted" with all sorts of micro / macrotransaction nonsense, I am reconsidering getting an Xbox One.
I mean considering every Forza game starting with the 3rd game has it's share of DLC car packs and track packs, and it continued with Forza 4, but there comes to a point in which enough is enough to take the limit in regards to pushing the boundaries, and that ends with micro transactions for these "tokens"
One of my XBL friends goes by the name of FordGTGuy who is a hardcore Forza Motorsport fan, I'm not one to speak for others, but I doubt even he would tolerate this kind of bullshit.
IF they can justify this crap with Forza 5, they will do the same with Forza 6, you better believe it.
Lets just hope PD doesn't decide to use the logic "If they can do it, so can we" And thus Gran Turismo 7 will also be a victim of this circumstance and they also decide to omit 20% of the car list. I mean they already going to have the option to buy in-game credits for money in GT6.
QuicheFontaine
Member
$3129.50 is more than three times the cost of my IRL car.
And there isn't even a Citroen Saxo in Forza 5! >:-(
Your logic is really awful man.
There is a difference between recognizing that new and more powerful hardware can create limitations that require cutbacks and a game where a developer is seemingly intentionally withholding content from the main game in order to nickel and dime the consumer.
The Lotus E21 kost:
6.000.000 CR or
10.000 Tk
I have 3 hours played today and have make 220 000 CR, im not a good driver.
220 000 = 3 h
6 000 000 = 80h
Drivatar makes money for you, if you are offline.
I think good player + avatar make 6 000 000 in 50h
where is the problem?
That line of reasoning would be fine... if it weren't for the fact that the game has literally half the content of its immediate predecessor.
That's absolutely inexcusable, in my opinion. All content (especially the cars and tracks that were in the previous game) should be free until the game at least starts to approach how many were in Forza 4. It's shameless and exploitative. "Built from the ground up," is a goddamn joke, especially now that we're seeing how the game really looks.
Yea, I'm not gonna walk you through it, but you're still not understanding the context of what I said. You're seeing somethat that's not there.
seattle6418
Member
That's the plan. You change the way the game is structured in order to force you into paying real money for in game items. That's why it's so bad, it's not the "only pay if you want nothing to see here" that some folks are trying to defend.
Racing games have been trying to pull off this BS for years. GT tried that with GT HD and the reaction was so strong that they scrapped off their entire plan.
PC sims have also some horrible models like the overly expensive iRacing, the fake free to play Raceroom and Simraceway...
It's really a dangerous time to be a racing fan. Every company is thinking on new ay to nickle and dime you.
I used your post to make a larger point. What is so hard to get?
I understand the concept of over-priced extra content bothering people (and there being less in the base game), but nothing short of refusing to buy it will do any good in terms of changing the approach currently being taken. Most games lose something when they advance up to new hardware. Look at the shift from GT2 to GT3 with the Playstations.
Orochinagis
Member
And people paid full price for this? damn
This post is the problem. 50 hours of gameplay for 1 car, and this is acceptable to you? Enjoy the game then...
This is really lame. I remember getting the Bugatti Veyron and a bunch of other cars right from the start in Forza 4 based on my Forza 3 level. Are there any benefits for having played the previous games in Forza 5?
revthejedi
Banned
The racing is fantastic, I'll earn all those pricey cars by actually playing the game, you know like usual.
No controversy here, just play the game, no one is forcing you to spend any additional money.
No controversy here, just play the game, no one is forcing you to spend any additional money.
I think the internet backlash against always on shows that voting with your wallet is not the only way to push back against perceived unjust corporate greed.
In fact always online has seemingly taught me that creating strong internet protest is probably more effective then just not buying something because just not buying something doesn't tell the company why that sale was lost. Which is quite critical in terms of the feedback loop.
That is still the point. You have less stuff to do to earn those cars. Sure, being a rushed launch title might be one reason for the lack of content, but one cannot escape the impression that they tried to get profit out of this downside instead of compensating the player for it.
In addition, the grinding seems to be more excessive, according to what I am reading. I have no problem with setting myself the goal of earning a specific car and taking some time to get it. Nevertheless, getting the F1 cars in GT5 only took me 2-3 days. Getting the Lotus in Forza 5 (at 6.000.000 credits IIRC) seems to be another beast entirely.
It's also sad that there is no free-play garage to compensate for that.
seattle6418
Member
I really hope this is sarcasm, because if you think that wasting 50 hours of gaming grinding to make virtual money to buy a car for a game is a good gameplay mechanic, then well, i guess developers will continue to fuck us over even more.
You should never (in a racing game) have to drive 50 hours repeating races in order to buy a car. NEVER.
The grinding in this one is so absurd that the only healthy way to enjoy this is to wait for a hacked/modded/homebrewed save with everything unlocked.
More insane than the issue here are the people trying to defend.
Remember folks, it's not just pay to win, it's changing the entire gameplay structure of the game in order to force you to pay for in game items.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Lol, I honestly thought that was a joke post. There's like 200+ cars in this game.
weekend_warrior
Banned
O_O
The Lotus E21 kost 6.000.000 CR or 10.000 Tk
+
I think good player + avatar make 6 000 000 in 50h
=
The problem
ZehDon
Banned
I'd agree with you, if this "Fee-to-Pay" practice wasn't present in all of Microsoft's first party launch titles for the Xbox One. How does a gamer "not buy it" if this stuff is put in every game regardless of its relevancy?
~50-80hrs for ONE car is pretty insane. That's pretty much on-par with MMO levels of silly grind. It's even sillier when you consider that it's not something you'll even be using all that often(depends on what races you do, online lobbies, etc), unlike with an MMO weapon where you're using it all the time.
Devs need to realize that not all gamers want another job when they get home from their job.
staticneuron
Member
Yes, and still the complaints are more about time versus gratification.
Just like with Battlefield 3/4, Dead Space 3 or the new AC games, there are these "shortcuts" that basically allow you to save time without drastically altering gameplay. Even with Seanspeed's post earlier on nothing points to you being forced or having to pay, the game just changed from earlier iterations to seem like more of a time sink.
It makes perfect sense. If the engine is different and/or they have to recreate asset's there is no reason why you should assume it should be free. It really is not the same content.
Holy fuck at those pricing totals. I'm kind of shocked that now is the time Microsoft is starting this bullshit. Launch customers are already paying a premium for the console, make sure the games provide entertainment and value for the money. Overinflating launch titles with Microtransactions and DLC will only cause bad word of mouth and kill their already small communities faster. The reason Sony is making the maps for Shadow Fall free isn't out of kindess, it's the only way to make sure the community stays alive in the early days of a platform.
NullPointer
Member
A problem that looks even worse when:
1. The player has just spent $500 on the console.
2. The game is thin on content compared to its previous installment.
3. There are fewer ways in-game to make credits.
I don't know enough about the hardware compatibility to know how much more MS expects Forza fans to shell out for a solid wheel setup.
Does anybody know whether all of these microtransactions and macrotransaction represent an MS policy or mandate for the bone? Because if so, the only answer is not to buy an Xbox.
Glorified G
Member
I was talking about micro transactions when I mentioned GT6. MP paywall was referenced separately to PS+ on PS4. The whole point of the post was the "Sony will do the same thing!" argument does have some merit, even if at times it's disingenuously said in order to defend MS.
That's a point I've been trying to make as well. A lot of people in this thread are conflating issues with Forza 5. How Forza 5 handles DLC and buying the cars with in-game credits is not different from what I've read.
Again though, it still was voting with a wallet by refusing to buy the system at launch over it. They were worried enough that it wouldn't sell. Now that the machine is out, if Forza 5 sells well and so does the content, no amount of complaints will change anything. They'll just write them off because it's profitable.
malboroking
Banned
50 hours of grinding to get one car and you're asking what the problem is? The problem is it shouldn't take 50 hours of playtime to purchase one super car. They are purposefully dragging out the amount of time it takes to purchase cars in order to push their DLC. This would be fine if you didn't already pay 60 dollars for the game. Not to mention the day one DLC that doesn't even give you the car, it just opens up the option to purchase the car. This is some pretty shameless monetization, and I'm honestly surprised people are defending it.
NullPointer
Member
Jim Sterling does a nice job explaining some of the issues with such optional microtransactions here.
The problem is that developers make games harder to make more people buy the "shortcut". It affects everyone, even if you have no intention to pay real money.
Maybe, maybe not.
If the backlash is loud enough and gains enough traction in the press the loss of goodwill may be damaging enough for Microsoft to reverse some of its policies and business plans to mitigate it.
Of course ideally both voting with your wallet AND being vocal is the best bet to hopefully get change.
malboroking
Banned
Have fun grinding for 2000 hours to purchase all your cars. Not to mention there are cars from day one that are locked behind DLC. Have fun buying those and grinding for another 500 hours just to purchase the DLC cars you bought.
I like how they are hiding behind "This car will feel truly rare!" bullcrap. You're forcing people to either grind for weeks/months or just straight pay up for a game they already paid for.
If this is the sign of things to come, I will definitely stay away from those "next-next-gen" games. I dread the days when we will pay for weapons(or bullets, does anyone remember that?) in Battlefield.
If this is the sign of things to come, I will definitely stay away from those "next-next-gen" games. I dread the days when we will pay for weapons(or bullets, does anyone remember that?) in Battlefield.
revthejedi
Banned
Depending on how far you go in each game you can ascend to one of six tier levels providing you with credits and cars in FM5.
weekend_warrior
Banned
revthejedi
Banned
Syphon Filter
Member
Well people don't do anything about it so that is why this keeps happening. People on both ends already let MS and Sony now charge for online play.
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