Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
What.
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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What.
I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning
It's not hyperbolic at all.
There are basically two ways that a company could approach a product. They could give you as much stuff as they can while still generating a profit, or they can give you as little as possible while generating a profit. It's clear that MS have opted for the latter of these two approaches with Xbone. They are giving you ancient hardware and charging you a premium for it, they're asking you to pay for virtually every service, they're asking you to pay more for fitness or music services, they're charging you the same price as ever for a new Forza game with fewer cars, with a day-one DLC pack, asking you to pay essentially the cost of an entirely new game to bring the car count to a point still lower than every previous entry in the series, and they add microtransations on the off chance that anybody is stupid enough to think that paying $7 for a virtual car is a good deal.
I find Xbone, as a product, very difficult to like. It's the term 'diversifying revenue streams', given concrete form.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
Spot on. I hope that Microsoft realises that while they might make a comfortable profit in the short term by nickle and diming the ignorant and the foolish, this kind of abhorrent behavior completely dissuades me from investing in the platform.
To put things in simple terms for the monkeys at Microsoft:
- I was going to buy an Xbox One for Forza 5
- I am now -once again- completely disinterested in the platform and will be directing my expendable income towards Nintendo and Sony this holiday period
Delusibeta
Banned
Aye, I'll freely admit that's a real back-of-a-napkin calculation. That said, I think it would be fair to say that overall, you'll earn more credits per hour in Forza 4 compared to Forza 5.
Ryan242004
Member
I would like to point out that NFS rivals only has ONE micro transaction, 9.99 for all upgrades, liveries and pursuit tech for both cops and racers. And this is EA who is the king of money games. I honestly don't understand why Turn 10 would do this, it's pretty much franchise suicide.
I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning
I hate the overuse of the word "hyperbole" every morning, afternoon, and night on NeoGaf.
EchoedTruth
Banned
Nails it on the head. With Microsoft still holding off basic functionality behind XBL Gold subs, and peppering all their published games with microtransactions it is fairly obvious that Microsoft is trying to milk the brand for everything it is worth this generation.
As much as I want there to be competition for Sony, I can't help but desire Microsoft crashing and burning as hard as possible when they drum up policies like this.
Look at it this way, there's gotta be someone that makes a regrettable example out of themselves so that the others (Sony) don't follow suit.
While crashing and burning is a bit much (Sony need the competition - remember $599?), they clearly need a bigger telling off than gamers gave them after the DRM revelations. The 1 million sales announcement made me sad for this very reason.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning
"Hyper-bowl" or "High-per-bee-ole"? D:
whatsinaname
Member
Sorry, but that comes across as quite condescending. Forza and GT are financially viable based on sales to the "hardcore" and the "casuals".
If Forza do continue down this path, it will turn into the kind of situation you see with games like iRacing. High barrier to entry with the few players bearing the brunt of the development cost.
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There is a morality aspect to this as well. Preying on people with addictive personalities is evil, whether it be alcohol, nicotine, gambling, narcotics, or exploitative videogame mechanics. So yeah, when people say EA is vile or Zynga evil, there is an element of truth.
I've always agreed with this, but all i ever hear is "well, they don't have to buy it", which i think is bullshit, frankly. They're just taking advantage of people who can't help themselves.
When did forza become a racing sim?
I see why M$ chose this path. They have investors to answer to. If 1/10 of those one million day one Xbox One owners buy this game and purchase content then this strategy worked.
This is awful for gamers. I crunched the numbers stated earlier in this posf that referenced 985 hours. It would take a little over a month and a half to earn that amount. That number rounds up 168 hours in a week to 170 and does not include sleeping. This sucks big time and I don't regret purchasing an Xbox One on the first day. Right out the gate they came with fuck yous for everybody with this game.
We're about to get screwed this generation. Imagine Halo like this. An exec at M$ looking over balance sheets plotting to increase revenue and decides that IGP are the way to go.
We forced the 180s by generating awareness. Most of the posters in this thread don't support this. The best thing we can do is refuse to buy this game. Holding publishers accountable for this by simply avoiding the game will curve these policies.
This is awful for gamers. I crunched the numbers stated earlier in this posf that referenced 985 hours. It would take a little over a month and a half to earn that amount. That number rounds up 168 hours in a week to 170 and does not include sleeping. This sucks big time and I don't regret purchasing an Xbox One on the first day. Right out the gate they came with fuck yous for everybody with this game.
We're about to get screwed this generation. Imagine Halo like this. An exec at M$ looking over balance sheets plotting to increase revenue and decides that IGP are the way to go.
We forced the 180s by generating awareness. Most of the posters in this thread don't support this. The best thing we can do is refuse to buy this game. Holding publishers accountable for this by simply avoiding the game will curve these policies.
Fahrenheit
Banned
Wish I knew before I bought, Ill have to be more careful with my purchases int he future.
if GT is a sim then so is forza
I neither see a high entry in fm5 nor in any gt for casuals. They start low and tune into the game as they get better.
Both are still far away from something like iracing. In iracing, you already got to know what you re doing.
Gt and fm just keep a few cars away from free play. Like the newey car or the lotus. You can take all indys, classic f1s or lmp cars in free play.
Gt and fm give you a career to start low and become "hardcore". But both have something, like a gem, for the already hardcore to achieve.
If these hardcore sims, five years ago, where called sims. So gt and fm are sims these days. They re already on that level... A matter of perspective. Both arent iracing, thats right. But doesnt make them lesser.
Edit:
The difference is, that both are accessable with a gamepad! You cant compare gt/fm gameplay in itself with gamepad or wheel. they re whole new games.
Edit2:
I already made 500k in forza and didnt play a lot. So it cant be that bad. Gta5 took far more time for.... Anything
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I can already see it. Map packs every month and all playlists require it, buy items for your online player, and so on.
I'm amazed how many people (mostly juniors, I might add) are here defending this obvious, hyper greedy money grab as a good thing. It's quite sad to think that people would stand up and white knight for a company that's obviously trying to see how far they can bend people before they break and say 'fuck off' to microtransactions. Apparently some of us aren't going to break at all, but rather choose to say 'give us MORE' while pretending that hundreds of hours of grinding in an incomplete game is a suitable substitute for shelling out ever more cash.
Ugh.
Ugh.
Foghorn Leghorn
Unconfirmed Member
LOL too make them exclusuve like in real life. It's for the money and they know people will pay it for their favorite cars. If it was truly about exclusiveness they would put a cap on how many exclusive cars could be purchased.
Edit: I thought they were originally doing a car pack for $50 or something. Did they drop tgat for this?
Edit: I thought they were originally doing a car pack for $50 or something. Did they drop tgat for this?
I have to wheel out the words 'possible shill', at least for some jrs. But gaf is pretty good at not letting that bs wreck threads post E3.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
lol at the "great value" sign.
Whoever made that is freaking troll!
Whoever made that is freaking troll!
EatinOlives
Member
This practice is disgusting.
I don't see how anyone can look at this as anything other than a blatant cash grab. It's just so goddamn obvious. I swear Turn10 could literally say "we did this for the money" in a press release and there'd be people in here tripping over themselves to defend it still.
I don't see how anyone can look at this as anything other than a blatant cash grab. It's just so goddamn obvious. I swear Turn10 could literally say "we did this for the money" in a press release and there'd be people in here tripping over themselves to defend it still.
LostVector
Neo Member
The career mode was terrible in Forza 4. They just sent you around tracks over and over again. I mean, there's a *LITTLE* more to getting better at driving than just going around over and over in faster cars for more and more laps with zero guidance from the game.
I was laughing at the announcer every time i started a new race. "Here we are, returning back again, at the Nurburgring, for the eighth time." Or the start of a new year ... "Even faster cars and even longer races". Turn 10 is creatively bankrupt, and this latest release showed it.
Syphon Filter
Member
Why are investors being so aggressive. In the past it didn't see as apparent.
when it found out how to simulate sounds racing car makes.
no but seriously...
Theres no question of the effort and time put into the actual simulation and tire model in Forza. The rest, well...
Polishin8r
Member
most consumers wont be informed about those things, its not like they advertise it on the box ;/
Since Gungho was briefly valued more than Nintendo?
I just thought the goal of a sim was to accurately simulate the activity, like flight sims or the training games military guys use; and forza is not that. I didn't mean it in a derogatory sense.
seattle6418
Member
I think of racing games as sports games, because you know, motorSPORTS. Having those concepts are sometimes weird. If people think it's fine to spend 200-300 hours playing to unlock the content, then i guess i'm just the minority, but imagine if sports games started doing the same:
unlock LeBron, unlock the Lakers, unlock the Patriots, start of as the Cleveland Browns or the Charlotte Bobcats... it's just stupid.
The whole fun is about the actual gameplay, not gaining privileges. You can bear it some, but it starts being an issue when it becomes an enduring grind, like in this case.
Imagine if someone wants to rent this just to see how the game simulates the formula 1 models...
Like in every other greedy abusing thread, what shocks me the most is not the company trying to get more money, it's the people ready to bend over and defend just about any type of BS the companies can think of.
unlock LeBron, unlock the Lakers, unlock the Patriots, start of as the Cleveland Browns or the Charlotte Bobcats... it's just stupid.
The whole fun is about the actual gameplay, not gaining privileges. You can bear it some, but it starts being an issue when it becomes an enduring grind, like in this case.
Imagine if someone wants to rent this just to see how the game simulates the formula 1 models...
Like in every other greedy abusing thread, what shocks me the most is not the company trying to get more money, it's the people ready to bend over and defend just about any type of BS the companies can think of.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Speaking about this, evolution are staying mum on the issue... I hope they aren't tainting their game with this trash.
jim2point0
Banned
I hope so to. For now, I'll hope for the best but I sure wont be buying a wheel for that game until it comes out and I know for sure.
Haunted
Member
That's exactly the kind of breakdown I wanted to see on here. Thanks!
$1690 at the best possible value to buy all the cars in a $60 game.
DEM MONEYHATZ
Storm Chamber
Banned
LAWD HAVE MERCY
I told people this was coming..."no man, you don't have to buy it!"...."so what? its only ___"
The dark clouds were forming people, and now its raining blood
I told people this was coming..."no man, you don't have to buy it!"...."so what? its only ___"
The dark clouds were forming people, and now its raining blood
ebullientprism
Member
What are the odds that if this makes a big enough shit-storm they will patch out some of the most egregious grinding? And I imagine most people would be like "Good on them for listening to the fans" and we will all forget about it.
This is gonna be a hard generation if garbage like this is how we start.
This is gonna be a hard generation if garbage like this is how we start.
BakedSardine
Banned
The only way for this to end is for gamers to vote with their wallet. There are 3 acceptable monetization formats I am willing to accept:
1) Flat cost for a game, everything should be on the disc and able to be unlocked with reasonable play time.
2) Freemium - The game is free and they can offer transactions all over the place. With freemium you know what you are getting into.
3) Monthly subscription (e.g. MMOs) where you are getting new content on a regular basis. I think this truthfully only works for MMORPGs and even those have pretty much gone by the wayside as far as payments.
That I see NO "journalist" straight up confronting MS on Forza 5 and flat out saying "You're asking gamers to buy a $60 game and right out of the gate you are offering a $50 DLC for things that have traditionally been a part of a retail game. That's $110 - how does this make sense for gamers?"
1) Flat cost for a game, everything should be on the disc and able to be unlocked with reasonable play time.
2) Freemium - The game is free and they can offer transactions all over the place. With freemium you know what you are getting into.
3) Monthly subscription (e.g. MMOs) where you are getting new content on a regular basis. I think this truthfully only works for MMORPGs and even those have pretty much gone by the wayside as far as payments.
That I see NO "journalist" straight up confronting MS on Forza 5 and flat out saying "You're asking gamers to buy a $60 game and right out of the gate you are offering a $50 DLC for things that have traditionally been a part of a retail game. That's $110 - how does this make sense for gamers?"
I should say I'm not accusing anybody of being a shill, it's just that I (personally) find it hard to believe that anybody could be solidly in the 'pro-microtransactions + DLC in $60 AAA titles' camp, yet here we are.
I'm steering way clear of Xbox One until I see if this becomes par for the course for first party titles, or if it really is just a case of testing the waters. Either way, I don't like it a bit.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Candy Crush does not cost 60$ to start playing. It cost 0$ to start playing.
Portugeezer
Member
You are right, it's much worse than I thought.
zenosparadox
Member
This is your mobile/F2P future so many of you are welcoming with open arms. Yeah, if I owned an Xbox One, I would be bitter!
I don't have a problem with DLC in general. Gears of War has weapon skins out the wazoo, and those all cost real money, and if you want to collect them all it's going to be expensive. I'm ok with that, because I can play the entire game and never buy a skin and be happy.
But this is ridiculous.
But this is ridiculous.
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