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Dustin Browder apologizes for the RPS interview
- Thread starter Dawg
- Start date
The topic exists because he didn't say what RPS wanted him to. He apologizes because he has to; its not sincere and it won't change anything about the character designs in the game.
This is what I felt too.
TheContact
Member
wtf I thought his responses were perfect, he shouldn't be the one apologizing
Off the top of my head? Skyrim.
Last one I actually played: Saint's Row 4, and Skullgirls.
These are almost outliers though because I think they actually do a great job letting people construct the character they want and doesn't fall into most of the pratfalls that a lot of traditional fantasy falls into. Skullgirls has a super sexualized over the top style, but I still like it's art design a ton, even if it's not for everyone. My personal problem with Saint's Row 4 is that most of the female outfits, sexy or not, are just unflattering with the game's models.
It's still a problem. You could argue that the fact that there are so few games that let me do this is because most games star a male protagonist, but that's a different argument for a different day.
And you're right, most eastern female character design is just...out there. Often for the worse than for the better.
Most of the women I know don't find dudes like Marcus Pheonix or Kratos sexy. Those are designs made for guys. If we're going for straight attraction, most women I know gravitate towards Nathan Drake.
There isn't anything opposed about sexual fantasies and power fantasies, really. One of the basic tenets of modern media criticism is that the messaging imparted by a work exists in multiple different contexts and is informed by the background of the audience and of the authors of the work (though that last is debatable depending upon how important you consider the idea of the death of the author to be). In principle, sexualization and empowerment are mostly orthogonal concepts. Sexualized characters can be empowering, and non-sexualized characters can be dis-empowering. It's not really a continuum where you're either one or the other, and ne'er the twain shall meet.
It kind of gets muddied in these discussions, I think, because of the predominantly male audience of video games, and therefore the presumption that any male character that is sexualized is still primarily intended to be appealing to men, and that any sexual appeal he possesses is either a secondary intent or an accident. This is ascribing intent to the creator of the design, however, and so yet again we find ourselves confronted with the perpetual debate of whether or not authorial intent is relevant. That's a bit of a tiff that's been going on for ages and doesn't have any end in sight, though, so don't hold your breath for an answer. Lord knows I'm not.
Skullgirls is a niche fighting game; definitely not AAA material.
spandexmonkey
Banned
Seriously? Did you even play Skyrim? (unmodded)
Saints Row 4 was praised for it's variety.
Skullgirls is so not AAA.
Our tastes clearly differ, but it sounds like you're reaching.
Delusibeta
Banned
I'm sorry, but jamming in a question that basically boiled down to "I think your game is sexist, waddya gunna do? Eh? EH?" when the PR wanted you to wind things up won't ever get a decent answer.
dapperbandit
Banned
I said it in the other thread but this was very much an empty apology
They aren't going to change jack shit. He just said he recognizes the issue. That's basically appeasment so the thing blows over fast instead of escalating into some click bait smear fest.
They aren't going to change jack shit. He just said he recognizes the issue. That's basically appeasment so the thing blows over fast instead of escalating into some click bait smear fest.
I did. Remember the falmer armor? Remember the foresworn armor? Personally, when I was playing the game on PS3, I was rocking a foresworn female light armor which was basically bikini armor that was altered to make spell casting super fast.
Again, I'm not saying that sexuality is a bad thing. I'm saying that when it's the only option, you have a significant problem. And that problem is rampant in the industry.
And keep in mind, I just held up Skyrim and Saint's Row 4 as examples on how to do it right (though...less frumpiness next time violition).
The interviewer was specifically asking how Browder and his team would approach the problem of sexist design. Did you even read the interview?
Delusibeta
Banned
Too late, RPS started a click bait smear fest with the follow-up articles.
Fair enough, and you certainly know more about the context here than I do. Still, the notion that this wasn't the time or place rings a bit hollow, and I don't think an interviewer can really be faulted for making his interviewee's job harder. Moreover, I understand that Browder would assuredly have to toe the company line in a situation like this, but all that really does is shift the blame from him to his PR team for not having a company line to toe.
Then he should've said what they wanted him to or nothing at all? Even if his sole barometer of success was avoiding bad PR by giving a complete non-response, he failed.
Delusibeta
Banned
Yep, hence the words used in the post.
Or in other words, "I think your game's sexist, wadda gunna do?".
Deified Data
Banned
Playing devil's advocate, would your opinion change if he was preaching about draconian DRM policies or exploitative microtransactions?
I actually agree that he has nothing to apologize for, but the subject of just how journalists are allowed to take interviewees to task interests me.
He was explaining why dismissing the issue is wrong. Nothing in the paragraph you quoted has anything to do with any specific game or even Blizzard's games. Everything the interviewer said could have been said to a developer whose game he was 100% convinced was not sexist.
Delusibeta
Banned
Honestly? Had he suddenly jammed it in a similar manner when PR wanted things to wind up, he'd have gotten a similar response and we'll probably have a similar controversy.
That1BlackGuy
Member
Daps to Dustin but he ain't have shit to apologize for.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I hope they don't change anything. If people want to play as a sexy dressed woman, who is RPS to tell them that is wrong. If people don't want to play that kind've character, they don't have to.
There are social issues out there. But attacking a video game for having an actually realistic portrayal of a woman is non-sense.
There are social issues out there. But attacking a video game for having an actually realistic portrayal of a woman is non-sense.
This story reminds me of this little Gamasutra article from a few years back about an interview they had with the Rage developers. Not in the sense that this interview was likely actually a respectful and fair conversation. The tone of the RPS piece sort of betrays that. But in the sense that game developers usually welcome honest criticism of their game. Games are design, and have to be made to fit their audience. Blizzard, especially, playtests their games relentlessly to make sure they have everything right. They want to hear what people think and how they respond.
So it wouldn't surprise me if Dustin Browder appreciated the critical content of the question, even if the timing and tone of it were the sort of thing you probably have nightmares about if you're preparing to be interviewed.
Whether or not it changes anything, I'm sure it's something they'll give a little thought to. These kinds of critiques have resulted in some small changes to LoL champion design over the years.
So it wouldn't surprise me if Dustin Browder appreciated the critical content of the question, even if the timing and tone of it were the sort of thing you probably have nightmares about if you're preparing to be interviewed.
Whether or not it changes anything, I'm sure it's something they'll give a little thought to. These kinds of critiques have resulted in some small changes to LoL champion design over the years.
true equality
In real life I notice this divide.
A friend who is young and has a boyish pretty boy face. Girls fall at his feet and he gets hit on by customers at every job he's ever had. He's awful at initiating because he's never had to so if there is a particular girl he wants he has problems and needs a wingman but if any girl will do, there is a line up.
He looks like this
Another friend has the whole rugged muscular thing going. He has to try. I guess because he looks somewhat intimidating. He has to initiate. He's dating my sister at the moment (poor sod). He only gets hit on in the same venues I do, places where older single women hang out.
He looks like this
Not sure how universal it is. I read somewhere that womens preferences change cyclically, mostly with the boyish guy but around ovulation they swing towards the more masculine guy.
So you deny that both Warcraft and Diablo are set in environments that incorporate a lot of mid evil elements in them? I think steel stone catapults and tanks and stories about dragons and swords and castles would qualify as a mid evil like setting!
spandexmonkey
Banned
Yeah this doesn't help me see the problem, if there still is one.
Kitschkraft
Member
I've grown to dislike RPS. Seems like they are always in a fuss.
My guess is that this apology was written by a pr person anyways. I don't buy these celebrity apologies half the time.
My guess is that this apology was written by a pr person anyways. I don't buy these celebrity apologies half the time.
Blast Processing
Member
The questions were handled poorly by Browder and the PR rep who shut the interview down--Blizzard is smart to acknowledge both that fact and that there is merit to the question.
All you decrying the question as unfair and an attack on what you love might consider reexamining what makes you do so. Are these women portrayed in a way that makes the slightest bit of sense, or is it just bald titillation? You'll find its often the latter. In ALL media.
Blizzard can and should do better, as one of the leading developers in gaming.
All you decrying the question as unfair and an attack on what you love might consider reexamining what makes you do so. Are these women portrayed in a way that makes the slightest bit of sense, or is it just bald titillation? You'll find its often the latter. In ALL media.
Blizzard can and should do better, as one of the leading developers in gaming.
Delusibeta
Banned
Spoiler: the PR was shutting down the interview, *then* the sexism question was asked.
By the way, I don't think anyone else brought it up yet, but:
Rock Papers Shotgun was one of those sites that TotalBiscuit (The Cynical Brit) had said had creditable reviews. He had also made some comments about this debate in a few of his Content Patches.
I'm eager to hear HIS take on this (he hasn't posted a video in a few days). He seems to play both sides of this, he's highly critical of the game media, and he gets a LOT of views, so who knows what he'll say!
Rock Papers Shotgun was one of those sites that TotalBiscuit (The Cynical Brit) had said had creditable reviews. He had also made some comments about this debate in a few of his Content Patches.
I'm eager to hear HIS take on this (he hasn't posted a video in a few days). He seems to play both sides of this, he's highly critical of the game media, and he gets a LOT of views, so who knows what he'll say!
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I've yet to see examples of what would be ok to the people who are complaing. It's also interesting to see how much projection goes into these discussions.
Pic of a buff character = This is an obvious power fantasy
pic of feminine character = An obvious attempt to sexualize
Pic of a buff character = This is an obvious power fantasy
pic of feminine character = An obvious attempt to sexualize
Blast Processing
Member
TatteredHat
Member
I still don't understand why we have to look like the character to feel empowered by them. I must be misunderstanding...because I think it would have a detrimental effect if the character actually looked like me.
Maybe it would help if we used another word, instead of empower, which seemingly isn't being used correctly?
I'm not even sure what you are arguing. There was nothing at all wrong with his answer. The guy defended his game with an honest answer -- thats something we should encourage more of, whether you agree with what hes saying or not.
Would you believe me if I say no?
Maybe preaching is too hard of a word, how about "editorializing" in the middle of an interview? (actually not in the middle but in the end when there was no way to make a proper debate, assuming that was his objective and not just some internet outrage)
Because ice cream has no bones.
He got me too, but "mid evil" is the wee cheeky wink that gives the game away...
Surely?
Just throw in some half naked bikini armor dudes if that's what it takes to make everyone happy. Though can we please stop throwing around "sexism" and "misogyny" all the time? You may not like some of the character designs, I certainly don't, but I don't think it's in any way sexist. To even make a claim that it's "demeaning" or "harmful" just seems laughable. There are more important issues that actually could be looked at and addressed. Labeling everything as sexist just makes the whole thing turn into a joke. Also can men please stop being the fucking sexist police on the behalf of women? These men are their own "night in shining armor to save women" sexist cliche at this point. If they were their own character in a movie, they'd be the very thing they criticize as "sexist" on account of "oh look at this man being the savior to women."
Everybody just needs to stop speaking for everybody and realize were all individual people, where one rule doesn't fit everybody. If 'x' amount of women are hurt and disgusted about a character design, than there are going to be an equal amount of women who see no issue at all. Let these people speak on their own behalf. We don't need phony men aiming to win some brownie points by pretending to be some all encompassing voice for women. Dude's probably just trying to get laid anyway, or has an overpowering girlfriend.
Everybody just needs to stop speaking for everybody and realize were all individual people, where one rule doesn't fit everybody. If 'x' amount of women are hurt and disgusted about a character design, than there are going to be an equal amount of women who see no issue at all. Let these people speak on their own behalf. We don't need phony men aiming to win some brownie points by pretending to be some all encompassing voice for women. Dude's probably just trying to get laid anyway, or has an overpowering girlfriend.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's not really too complicated he wants the player to want to play that character and the more attached to that character the player is can mean the more involved they are in the game. Plus likely market research etc has shown that sexy characters are a lot more popular than more normal looking ones. As a business, they say lets go with that. Again as a business they're main purpose is to make money not push any sort of social agenda.
I think what people are forgetting is that these companies don't make sexy or slightly sexy outfits for their characters because they're sexist (most of the time) or morally dodgy. They do it because a heck of a lot of players tend to buy up that shit, it's the safe norm. When you invest large amounts of money like the modern video game industry you don't want to take unnecessary risks.
Generally the amount of players you interest by having slightly sexy designs , greatly outweighs the amount you lose by having it, so as the director of the game will you take that risk, when the success of your game can be affected by it. Of course some studio's have the clout and quality to buck that trend but frankly the majority don't hence this issue.
It's not even unique to videogames but the reasons it's to this degree it's simply the fact that most of the consumers are young males, and well most of the developers are male also but it's mostly the consumer skew.
If two games were exactly the same but one had a more appealing "sexy" character and the other a far more normal plain design, If the majority of people picked the later over the former, this issue wouldn't be so bad, of course they don't, so the games industry has morphed into what it is.
Now journalists are putting the spot light on this problem, to force companies to change there designs. Most companies really don't want to, whether it's successful or not we'll see, but it will ultimately just be a band aid as the core issues will still be there until females make up a higher percentage of the consumer base.
Obviously you can see as a chicken and the egg conundrum as that percentage won't increase unless games cater to them more, and no company really wants to take that risk. The don't mind with casual more family orientated but with AAA nope.