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Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS Thread 3: Ridley's Believe It or Not!

Now now it's not weekend smash gaf. Make love not hate.
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Anyhoo wonder what we'll get for black friday tomorrow.
 
Perhaps you all should take a breather if you're going after eachothers throats because some people want characters you don't think will get in :U
 
JazzmanZ said:
Perhaps you all should take a breather if you're going after eachothers throats because some people want characters you don't think will get in :U
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We can drop it if you want. Aint no thing, we can talk about something.

Things that could be incorporated from regular fighting games into smash, is a topic that have not seen in quite a while, but could hold some merit.

Maybe we can start on that?
 
I am honestly at loss for words




for the record I don't really care so much whether rosalina gets in smash or not, but I do feel the argument about her being too much like peach in appearance has merits
 
Rosalina is just as visually distinct from Peach as Luigi is from Mario, and yet both of those characters are playable. Rosalina's problem isn't her appearance, it's her relative unimportance as a Nintendo character. Prior to her 3D World playability (which Sakurai might not have known about in early 2012), she was just a hub world NPC in Galaxy. Just looking at her role alone, she'd be somewhere near the bottom of the Smash Bros. pecking order -- nearly every other character is a main protagonist, rival, or main villain.

I'd like to see Rosalina (she was on the top ten list I posted a few days ago), but let's not kid ourselves. In the event that the Mario series gets a newcomer, it's going to be Bowser Jr. The New Super Mario Bros. series and the Galaxy games all came out after Brawl's roster was locked down, and Bowser Jr. has a significant role in most of those. He's technically the main villain of the DS' best-selling game.
 
Gonzo The Great said:
The Rosalina fanboys are a resilient bunch, that's for sure. There's a zero percent chance she'll take priority over characters like Bowser Jr. and Waluigi, but I don't expect any Mario newcomers.
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Gonzo The Great said:
Because stupidity bothers me. If they start adding insignificant characters like Rosalina over the likes of Little Mac, Ridley, and Mike Jones, then it's time to retire the series.
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How is Rosalina "insignificant"? Because she's new? She's the biggest new Mario character in a while. Bowser Jr. had his chance in that position, but now basically has lost it and has reduced importance in the games.

Meanwhile, Rosalina has just gotten the spotlight once again outside of her debut game (
with her playable appearance in 3d World
). EAD Tokyo and the Mario Kart team are clearly pushing her to be a new Mario recurring character.
 
Ryce said:
Rosalina is just as visually distinct from Peach as Luigi is from Mario, and yet both of those characters are playable. Rosalina's problem isn't her appearance, it's her relative unimportance as a Nintendo character. Prior to her 3D World playability (which Sakurai might not have known about in early 2012), she was just a hub world NPC in Galaxy. Just looking at her role alone, she'd be somewhere near the bottom of the Smash Bros. pecking order -- nearly every other character is a main protagonist, rival, or main villain.
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I would argue her orginal role does not matter much. She again to coin term, Shadow the hedgehog-ed her way into shit. She got special privileges, she got above peach privileges. Not saying her spot is guaranteed, however there is possibility someone in the Mario division, might be pushing for her in smash. Since they are the ones who gets to the end game decision.

Ryce said:
I'd like to see Rosalina (she was on the top ten list I posted a few days ago), but let's not kid ourselves. In the event that the Mario series gets a newcomer, it's going to be Bowser Jr. The New Super Mario Bros. series and the Galaxy games all came out after Brawl's roster was locked down, and Bowser Jr. has a significant role in most of those. He's technically the main villain of the DS' best-selling game.
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I would not say it would be 100% bowser Jr. While I love him to death, think he is adorable. There is one other character I feel is in the running, that is now the main villain of a "franchise", of a popular nintendo character. And had that game represented stage wise in the last smash bros.

Who is he? I'll give you a hint

King_Boo_in_Luigi%27s_Mansion_2.png
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Just saiyin.

Qurupeke said:
Well, at least everyone wants Lucina so I'll be fine.
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Adding Lucina to smash is a failure of the game design.

IT BEGINS.
 
The biggest thing hurting Lucina is there is a good chance she'd be a clone of Marth, and then she's have to be picked over fan favorite Roy who people were sad got cut from Brawl.
 
Well it's Thanksgiving and stuff so I'm not really in the mood for long debates, I'm just gonna say thanks Smash-GAF for the fun! Always entertaining to pop in here from time to time, makes the info droughts a lot more tolerable. Let's hope the game delivers on the online portion at least, I'd love if we could have a tourney here between all of us.
 
Masahiro Sakurai said:
If I have an image of a character in my mind that dances around and jibes with what I want, then that's the most important thing. On the other hand, even if you have a character suited for a fighting game, if you can't make him stick out from the pack and extract something unique from him, then what can you do?
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Masahiro Sakurai said:
From there, a list of candidates is refined by evaluating their contribution to the game's roster: "What is the uniqueness of this character? What does this character bring into the Smash Bros. universe? What do they have that other characters don't? How do they complement or contrast other characters?”
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Lucina brings absolutely nothing new to the table, and she’s not even the main character of the one game she appears in. I’m even having a hard time seeing why Chrom would be added, honestly.
 
In my experience (anecdotal) most people who play smash don't even know who most of the roster are. They couldn't tell you who Marth or Metakinght is let alone the games they come from.

These people won't care that Roalina is a space orphan or Daisey really loves egg salad. They are just going to pick a character they find visually appealing, so to them the princesses might as well be a selectable colour swaps.


Look how similar (and dull in my opinion) their silhouettes are.
AriPGNO.png


Compare this to the hundreds of visually interesting characters Nintendo has with strong silhouettes, shapes and colours.
csmotfw.png


Vote NO on Rosalina!

And besides, if you're really into visually dull characters they've got you covered with the Wii Fit trainers.
 
I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make. Characters shouldn't be included because they don't have distinct silhouettes? That's pretty absurd.
 
I really hate when character debates turn into who SHOULDN'T be in. It always seems to devolve into petty insults and similar bullshit (eg: saying supporting Rosalina is "stupidity"). Surely we're better than that.

Vyse24 said:
Gamestop has April 8th, 2014 as the release date. No way that's happening.
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I think Newegg has May 2014.

No idea how far along they REALLY are, though.
 
TwEE-N-Toast said:
In my experience (anecdotal) most people who play smash don't even know who most of the roster are. They couldn't tell you who Marth or Metakinght is let alone the games they come from.
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People learn about the roster, by playing smash. It supposedly helped FE, and I know people personally who played the earthbound games because their first experience with ness and lucas is smash bros. Smash bros, is also an advertising firm for its franchises, as many cross overs are.

These people won't care that Roalina is a space orphan or Daisey really loves egg salad. They are just going to pick a character they find visually appealing, so to them the princesses might as well be a selectable colour swaps.
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You give it to them , they learn about it and begin to care. And those who do care, will care.

Look how similar (and dull in my opinion) their silhouettes are.
AriPGNO.png
Click to expand...
But the one on the right looks way different that other two.

Compare this to the hundreds of visually interesting characters Nintendo has with strong silhouettes, shapes and colours.
csmotfw.png
Click to expand...
Silhouettes isn't the only thing that matters. Ask capcom.

Vote NO on Rosalina!

And besides, if you're really into visually dull characters they've got you covered with the Wii Fit trainers.
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Opinions.
 
Village said:
People learn about the roster, by playing smash. It supposedly helped FE, and I know people personally who played the earthbound games because their first experience with ness and lucas is smash bros. Smash bros, is also an advertising firm for its franchises, as many cross overs are.


You give it to them , they learn about it and begin to care. And those who do care, will care.


But the one on the right looks way different that other two.


Silhouettes isn't the only thing that matters. Ask capcom.


Opinions.
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...

Misty, really?
 
PK Gaming said:
...

Misty, really?
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Don't ask me its him.

Shadow Hog said:
I really hate when character debates turn into who SHOULDN'T be in. It always seems to devolve into petty insults and similar bullshit (eg: saying supporting Rosalina is "stupidity"). Surely we're better than that.

I think Newegg has May 2014.

No idea how far along they REALLY are, though.
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I am betting 2015. Or super later 2014.

Edit: scratch that, just 2015. I do not think they can keep a 2014 date.
 
Ryce said:
Rosalina is just as visually distinct from Peach as Luigi is from Mario, and yet both of those characters are playable. Rosalina's problem isn't her appearance, it's her relative unimportance as a Nintendo character. Prior to her 3D World playability (which Sakurai might not have known about in early 2012), she was just a hub world NPC in Galaxy. Just looking at her role alone, she'd be somewhere near the bottom of the Smash Bros. pecking order -- nearly every other character is a main protagonist, rival, or main villain.

I'd like to see Rosalina (she was on the top ten list I posted a few days ago), but let's not kid ourselves. In the event that the Mario series gets a newcomer, it's going to be Bowser Jr. The New Super Mario Bros. series and the Galaxy games all came out after Brawl's roster was locked down, and Bowser Jr. has a significant role in most of those. He's technically the main villain of the DS' best-selling game.
Click to expand...

The roster isn't 100% set in stone as the game development starts. People come and go, and we've seen evidence of this during Brawl's development thanks to the files and interviews we had. Sonic was added last minute, and Toon Link, Jigglypuff and Wolf were added to the roster somewhere in between the first roster draft and the addition of Sonic, while other characters were cut from the process.

Additionally, you're underplaying Rosalina's significance to the Mario series as a whole. Since the Galaxy games, she's been playable or cameos in just about every Mario spin-off that has been there, most importantly Mario Kart of course, where she has been on the roster since Mario Kart Wii, but also the 3DS Mario Party (where she is going to get her own board, even though she might not be playable). She also was planned in the 3DS Mario Tennis, but was cut due to time restraints, and instead a Luma was added as playable. This heavily suggests that Nintendo seems to like Rosalina and has been pushing her to be a part of wherever it seems possible.
Even if Sakurai were to decide the roster all by himself (which I don't think he does), I'm sure Nintendo is at least suggesting characters to put into the game, so her inclusion into Smash is not entirely unlikely, especially if it ties into 3D World and such.

Finally, the absence of the Comet Observatory in the background of the Mario Galaxy stage is really weird.

With that said, I think Bowser Jr.'s chances of being a new Mario character are about as high as Rosalina's, and I wouldn't be opposed to either one's inclusion as playable characters. Heck, I would enjoy it if both made it in. I'd put Toad's and Waluigi's chances just below those two, and Toad's solely because Peach still has her Toad special, otherwise he'd be up there with Bowser Jr. and Rosalina.

Oh, and @ the guy who posted those silhouettes:
I really doubt that Sakurai chooses characters based on how distinctive their silhouette is, because that would be really dumb, and also make no sense with characters like Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario, Marth/Roy, Peach/Zelda and probably a few others I'm not thinking of. And then you bring up boring ass characters that have no relevance to Nintendo beyond a game or two like Skullkid, Midna, Wendy Koopa or some random dude in a robe from Fire Emblem? Also, Misty? Yeah, right.
 
ffdgh said:
Sakurai can likely get both games out in 2014. No subspace to work on.
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Well, hopefully there'll be something else to replace it, even if it's not a "story mode". No Subspace shouldn't mean a crippled game as far as solo/co-op content goes.
 
Rosalina should absolutely be one of the newcomers in Smash 4. If you disagree, that's great and totally valid, but the fact that you guys are fighting about this so rudely and putting each other down about it is fucking ridiculous. Perspective, people. Jesus.
 
We've reached another dark place in these boards. Can we please detour away from Mario characters now? I long for the Ridley days at this point.
 
Red Arremer said:
The roster isn't 100% set in stone as the game development starts. People come and go, and we've seen evidence of this during Brawl's development thanks to the files and interviews we had. Sonic was added last minute, and Toon Link, Jigglypuff and Wolf were added to the roster somewhere in between the first roster draft and the addition of Sonic, while other characters were cut from the process.
Click to expand...
It is, actually. Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf were all planned from the very beginning, but there wasn't time to actually implement them until late in development.

The first interesting tidbit he dropped during his talk was that the final character roster was essentially completed when the design document was finalized on July 7, 2005. That was, the character list was done 2½ years before the game was completed. Sakurai said the reasoning behind this was that he knew making additions later during development would be very difficult.

To prevent this master plan from becoming a problem in the long run, Sakurai's design was constructed with the goal of trying to include as much of it as possible within the allotted time. In that way, late cuts could be made without sacrificing the production schedule. The only exception to this plan was the late addition of Sonic.
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The point I was trying to make is that since Brawl's roster was planned out in 2005, it's not surprising that Bowser Jr. didn't make the cut. It wasn't until 2006 that Nintendo started going crazy with him.

Also:

Red Arremer said:
Even if Sakurai were to decide the roster all by himself (which I don't think he does)
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After talking to Sakurai for over an hour, one thing is very clear: he uses the word 'I' a lot. In an age where games are made by hundreds of people though, as opposed to the old days of lone programmers in their bedrooms, surely he doesn't make all the decisions by himself? "I decide what goes in the game; nobody else."
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Ryce said:
It is, actually. Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf were all planned from the very beginning, but there wasn't time to actually implement them until late in development.

The point I was trying to make is that since Brawl's roster was planned out in 2005, it's not surprising that Bowser Jr. didn't make the cut. It wasn't until 2006 that Nintendo started going crazy with him.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I stand corrected. But still - it's not like Nintendo's decision to push Rosalina just suddenly happened. The games with her on the roster were in some stage of development or already completed by the time Sakurai began working on Smash 4's roster.

EulaCapra said:
We've reached another dark place in these boards. Can we please detour away from Mario characters now? I long for the Ridley days at this point.
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master_ridley_and_sir_kraid_by_azakachi_rd_17-d4j8vsu.jpg
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Characters from franchises already repped in Smash are boring anyway, let's talk about how Rhythm Monkey is awesome and should get a playable spot for being adorable and a good rep.
 
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