toddhunter
Member
I don't know enough to comment on the rest of it, but I love the burst/30% idea. A burst especially would add an extra layer of strategy but with the 30% you would still get a chance to do some damage back if you are good enough.
Fighting Games Weekly | Dec 9-15 | Funding Nemo? Not yet...
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I don't know enough to comment on the rest of it, but I love the burst/30% idea. A burst especially would add an extra layer of strategy but with the 30% you would still get a chance to do some damage back if you are good enough.
Better not call him salty. He'll ban you
UltraDavid
Member
personally i hate the idea of burst or combo breakers in general, it's a turn off for me in every game it's in. and if i had to pick my favorite between the different variations of combo breaker/burst mechanics, i'd go with injustice: once a game, only after losing a round, cannot be used against some moves, usually costs meter, etc. if only it always cost at least a bar of meter!
and why guard cancel? marvel already has alpha counters.
also roman canceling is dumb too
next thing you know you're gonna ask that combos become even more character specific
yep i don't like guilty gear
and why guard cancel? marvel already has alpha counters.
also roman canceling is dumb too
next thing you know you're gonna ask that combos become even more character specific
yep i don't like guilty gear
Deckard Cain
Banned
Bursts don't belong in Marvel.
I feel you David. I also hate burst mechanics!
Also, I think arc system works games have overly complicated mechanics, which don't necessarily add depth.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
If psn let me add amounts less than $5 to my wallet I'd probably get Origins.
I'm glad I sold back Borderlands 2 earlier this year for Injustice money, considering it's now free on ps+.
I'm glad I sold back Borderlands 2 earlier this year for Injustice money, considering it's now free on ps+.
I'm also not a big fan of burst mechanics.
haha yea the trolls are starting to get to him, it was visible in his play when he was playing angry, particularly against krone. To his credit viper is an infuriating character.
haha yea the trolls are starting to get to him, it was visible in his play when he was playing angry, particularly against krone. To his credit viper is an infuriating character.
You don't have alpha counters if you are down to your last man which is why the last character sort of needs a guard cancel type mechanic.
I don't like Burst mechanics either... but Keits' idea of the burst is actually pretty good. Getting only 30% time on your XF time is pretty huge and you have to make a big bet on it.
UltraDavid
Member
yeah, i'm totally with you. i'm glad they seem to be paring that down a bit in xrd
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
nah, dont think its needed
the general system gives you enough to make comebacks and survive
I'm with a bunch of people in here with saying that Bursts are the fucking worst. I absolutely hate the concept mechanically. Not only is it often a crutch for poor decisions for other combat mechanics (I can't think of a game where it isn't, actually), but it's also completely counterintuitive to the dynamics of a fight that underlies the genre.
If bursts or combo breakers made it into Marvel it would seriously damper my enjoyment of the game. It particularly against what makes Marvel what it is in all of it's various forms of excess. If this becomes a thing going forward I'll probably stick to training mode in Marvel games forever.
Fuck bursts.
If bursts or combo breakers made it into Marvel it would seriously damper my enjoyment of the game. It particularly against what makes Marvel what it is in all of it's various forms of excess. If this becomes a thing going forward I'll probably stick to training mode in Marvel games forever.
Fuck bursts.
How do you feel about the IPS bursts in Skullgirls?
Slamtastic
Member
games wouldn't need bursts if developers would just lower the damage and length of combos
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Same deal. Wouldn't be a problem if hitstun pretty much prevented exploitation of the sort or the combos weren't that long.
Either way, I have a really big problem with taking away what a player earns from gaining the hit. It deemphasizes that neutral aspect a bit because of the constant presence/possibility of a breaker which can throw you back into the mix. I'd rather long, drawn out combos/1 player game than bursts any day of the week, even if the person that breaks uses up resources.
Like I said, it's fundamentally a mechanic that's designed to compensate for the issues other mechanics cause and creates more issues in the process.
Yeah I don't think Bursts are needed but if you as a developer absolutely think that your game needs it then Bursts have to be a one time thing and they have to come at a huge cost. In UMVC3 if there was a Burst, anything less than it using up your X factor would be too good.
The Last Emperor
Member
Got all my bets down
100 on fanatiq
150 on Alioune/haitani/ gackt vs the field
100 on fanatiq
150 on Alioune/haitani/ gackt vs the field
BB:CP's "Burst or X-Factor" mechanic is pretty much perfect. I just wish it were "once per round" rather than on a timer.
Shouta
Member
He's saying that the burst exists to equalize in games where the damage is too strong or the combos too long that it becomes pretty much death if you get touched. If the game wasn't centered around that, then there wouldn't be a need for a burst.
That's why a Burst kind of makes sense for Marvel as it currently is. It's a 1-player game should you get hit for like most of the cast and people hella bemoan it. If they can burst in a pinch like on your last char with Xfactor, then at least you'll have the ability to stave off death once during a comeback. Then there wouldn't be a need the stupidly tuned XF that exists now.
A tightly tuned system would reduce the need for it but if it's not, then a Burst is basically a way of allowing that crazy shit to occur and not make it the soul-crushing game it is currently, lol.
A game that perfectly exemplifies a solid damage/combo game without being totally overbearing is ironically, SFxT.
I will take that Fanatiq bet for $100. PM me for confirmation.
Master Milk
Member
I imagine if the games that had bursts now didn't have them, the flow of the game wouldn't change.
It would be nice if damage were higher in BB
Professor Beef
Banned
I thought PSN let you add in the exact amount if you didn't have enough? Or am I thinking of Nintendo's store?
Both PSN/Nintendo let you "top off" to an exact amount.
UltraDavid
Member
Hey Chris.
commanderpepper
Member
So when are the Nemo money matches happening?
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
I don't mind burst mechanics. Marvel might as well go full Anime.
irfaanator
Banned
welcome djhoushen. You're the best white man since you main the best waifu yukiko
Nemo vs Fanatiq one hour after Capcom Cup closing. But we still don't know if it's being streamed. Probably not.
UltraDavid
Member
what does this mean, it's just a fighting game, it's just a subjective taste. who cares why you like having to continue mixing the opponent up even when you've already won the neutral game war, not me
as for nemo v fanatiq, it's a first to 20 right? i'd bet $100 that fanatiq win fewer than 10 matches. the last emperor, i'm looking at you!
Karsticles
Member
I definitely want your Felicia feedback, but I would like it in the Marvel OT so it does not get passed over.
For me on bursts, depends on the game. Honestly the one thing that bugs me the most with games that have bursts that it makes players play completely dumb at times when they're trying to bait one. Seeing players try to make that read and jump canceling their combo just makes me shake my head at times when it fails.
I think GG is the only game where I tolerate bursts since they're pretty difficult to get away with at high level.
BB, I've hated how it was implemented. BBCP's a bit better on it though. But now that the startup has been reduced, I see those same players doing dumb reads to try and bait bursts. :/
I think GG is the only game where I tolerate bursts since they're pretty difficult to get away with at high level.
BB, I've hated how it was implemented. BBCP's a bit better on it though. But now that the startup has been reduced, I see those same players doing dumb reads to try and bait bursts. :/
Saying you don't like something isn't the same as expressing why that something is bad but thanks anyway for clearing that up.
Stabby McSter
Member
i say more
SloaneRisette
Member
UltraDavid confirmed for superior Team Nemo.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
team stickbug http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby
The Last Emperor
Member
Misunderstanding. I have already completed all my bets. What I listed was the bets I have in place.
I'm probably too late on this, but I'd take that action
edit: knew I was too late
Ragingnight
Member
i find the burst mechanic in persona fine. If you hit them and they burst (and lets say you don't bait it) then if you win that round you can TOD them the 2nd round with an offensive burst.
Burst/combo breaker in MK9 is the worst though. Shit is garbage tier.
Burst/combo breaker in MK9 is the worst though. Shit is garbage tier.
Deckard Cain
Banned
Deal
SloaneRisette
Member
This is gonna get good.
Slamtastic
Member
sounds like a shitty mechanic/game
The Last Emperor
Member
I would take this in a heartbeat, if we were both physically at the location. Sorry homie, I don't know you like that yet to do online bets with ya
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
ALL HAIL ED BOON RULER OF THE FIGHT GAME REALM
SloaneRisette
Member
Just asked Viscant on Twitter, he thinks that Nemo will take it and that Fanatiq won't be ready for his team.
i think i would want to strangle whoever would put bursts in marvel because the archetype of 'pixie' exists in that game and bursts should never, ever, EVER exist alongside that archetype
i really dont want to hit magneto/zero/whatever pixie char and then let them have a free escape because they don't need the resources burned in the first place to win when hitting them is already such a pain because they control the pace of the match extremely well
pixie chars already ride the line because you end up with retarded design decisions like "oh, as long as we give them less health it'll be balanced" in games where the health decrease is insignificant
can you imagine dark phoenix with a burst jesus christ she's already enough of a problem as it is
if the game isn't explicitly designed around the burst mechanic i have a pretty strong feeling it'll end up being terrible though i don't think there's any example of a game just randomly getting a burst mechanic in some iteration so i might be totally wrong
i really dont want to hit magneto/zero/whatever pixie char and then let them have a free escape because they don't need the resources burned in the first place to win when hitting them is already such a pain because they control the pace of the match extremely well
pixie chars already ride the line because you end up with retarded design decisions like "oh, as long as we give them less health it'll be balanced" in games where the health decrease is insignificant
can you imagine dark phoenix with a burst jesus christ she's already enough of a problem as it is
if the game isn't explicitly designed around the burst mechanic i have a pretty strong feeling it'll end up being terrible though i don't think there's any example of a game just randomly getting a burst mechanic in some iteration so i might be totally wrong
burst costs a separate meter that regains very very slowly (usually about 1 per round unless it's an absolute steamrolling).
on top of that bursts can be used offensively or defensively. offensively it can be used to to gain full meter in guilty gear. in persona it can be used to extend combos or gain full meter. in blazblue it can be used to go into overdrive to increase offensive capabilities (character specific).
and on top of that, some attacks lock out bursts completely! see throws, supers, overdrive in blazblue.
it's an interesting and expensive resource that players use to shift momentum or escape damage, not a mindless "get out of jail free" card.
i will say the one burst mechanic i disliked was the one in Tatsunoko vs Capcom because:
1. they cost 3 bars, not a separate meter
2. players can baroque cancel defensive bursts to combo and do good damage off them. defensive bursts in gg/bb/p4 do not have this problem, they scale damage TERRIBLY.
on top of that bursts can be used offensively or defensively. offensively it can be used to to gain full meter in guilty gear. in persona it can be used to extend combos or gain full meter. in blazblue it can be used to go into overdrive to increase offensive capabilities (character specific).
and on top of that, some attacks lock out bursts completely! see throws, supers, overdrive in blazblue.
it's an interesting and expensive resource that players use to shift momentum or escape damage, not a mindless "get out of jail free" card.
i will say the one burst mechanic i disliked was the one in Tatsunoko vs Capcom because:
1. they cost 3 bars, not a separate meter
2. players can baroque cancel defensive bursts to combo and do good damage off them. defensive bursts in gg/bb/p4 do not have this problem, they scale damage TERRIBLY.