Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS Thread 3: Ridley's Believe It or Not!

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Here's the shiny armor I was talking about.
 
Maybe next SSB or the one after that when the rosters are pretty full and we have fairly good representation of Nintendo-verse they could work on different ideas for pre-existing characters through customizable movesets and/or different costumes/skins.

I was thinking instead of the hype and heavy discussion of what characters appear in future SSB titles they could turn the excitement towards unlockable moves or movesets. For example you could play and unlock different things such as the Tanooki suit as a special move for all Mario characters, or ice beam for Samus, Hammer for Link, whip for Toon Link, Trident of Power for Ganondorf, poltergeist for Luigi, different weapons for Starfox, Fire Emblem and Pit, different moves that the Pokemon can learn, maybe different Pokemon for Pokemon trainer to select from, etc. I think that'd be something really exciting for Smash and allow for people who complain that certain characters share similar movesets meanwhile the competitive scene can also still play the character with their original moveset if they desire. Only massive problem would be that it would require a ton of work balancing.
 
Toxi said:
The Brawl suit looks pretty great. It looks heavy and powerful. The only issues I have is that it's not the Prime suit and it has a huge crotch section. Samus doesn't need a jockstrap.
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The thing people dont take into consideration is that samus' varia suit is suppose to be super flexible and fast among other things, its suppose to look powerful and such, but also look like she can actually move around in it, like in every game where she runs and jumps and all kinds of things that isnt in prime.
 
I think there's a balance to be had in Samus's design, not too bulky but not too slim and sleek. Samus should look like a walking tank of sorts, and it should exhibit natural power in its design. Prime 1's design I think was too bulky (and too top heavy as well), but Other M's design doesn't look powerful enough. Prime 2/3's design I think hits the right notes for both.

Other M's design also gets negative points for having a poor Morph Ball design and no real non-Varia Power Suit and Gravity Suit designs. And the ridges on her shoulders are a necessity I feel, but that might be too nitpicky for some of you.

EDIT: I still can't believe the lack of a proper Gravity Suit was Sakamoto's decision because he apparently thought it looked silly in his super duper serious scenes. What the hell kind of drugs was he on when he made that game.
 
Green Mamba said:
I think there's a balance to be had in Samus's design, not too bulky but not too slim and sleek. Samus should look like a walking tank of sorts, and it should exhibit natural power in its design. Prime 1's design I think was too bulky (and too top heavy as well), but Other M's design doesn't look powerful enough. Prime 2/3's design I think hits the right notes for both.

Other M's design also gets negative points for having a poor Morph Ball design and no real non-Varia Power Suit and Gravity Suit designs. And the ridges on her shoulders are a necessity I feel, but that might be too nitpicky for some of you.
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Disagree. Other M's suit design was intentional due to the gameplay. One of the few things they got right in Other M was how Samus moved. She was flexible, acrobatic and a real hunter/fighter not the terminator. I dislike robot/terminator approach to her design. Granted I doubt that SSB will actually reflect her quicker, more flexible and acrobatic side as that would also diminish the point of ZSS. Although Prime did have some good suit design and it wouldn't have killed for Suit upgrades to Other M.
 
Anura said:
Correcting minor errors is adding nicely to the already quality discussions here at smash GAF
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I was doing it rather jokingly, but okay.

I got a decent amount of flack for saying this thread is where brains go to die and it seems like, since I made that comment, it's been a competition to prove me right. Which is fine, I like being right, but I did not expect everyone to engage in it quite so enthusiastically.
 
Lord_Byron28 said:
Disagree. Other M's suit design was intentional due to the gameplay. One of the few things they got right in Other M was how Samus moved. She was flexible, acrobatic and a real hunter/fighter not the terminator. I dislike robot/terminator approach to her design. Granted I doubt that SSB will actually reflect her quicker, more flexible and acrobatic side as that would also diminish the point of ZSS. Although Prime did have some good suit design and it wouldn't have killed for Suit upgrades to Other M.
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+1

While I like both the Super Metroid on steroids look and Other M's Samus look (the morph ball loses free and easily to Retro's morph balls though), I'll always take the latter on the basis that it compliments Samus' nimble and acrobatic nature.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I was doing it rather jokingly, but okay.

I got a decent amount of flack for saying this thread is where brains go to die and it seems like, since I made that comment, it's been a competition to prove me right. Which is fine, I like being right, but I did not expect everyone to engage in it quite so enthusiastically.
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The more time I spend here the more I agree with you

Edit: and you can't blame me for not knowing such a statement was made "rather jokingly" as it lacks context more than even the worst internet sarcasm

But I apologize for jumping on you
 
How would you guys direct the introduction trailers for future newcomers? Here's an idea I just had:

Pac-Man
Luigi is slinking through a haunted mansion with Poltergust in tow. As he turns a corner, a group of Pac-Man ghosts appear in front of him (timed with an outside lightning strike for dramatic effect), he turns his flashlight on, it has no effect, and he cowers in fear. Suddenly, the ghosts turn blue, their expressions go from menacing to alarmed, and then Pac-Man runs in from behind and eats them. Luigi stops cowering, looks around confused, and then shows his appreciation to Pac-Man. The camera closes in on Pac-Man who winks and gives a thumbs up: “Pac-Man [witty phrase]!” Cue gameplay trailer. In a brief post-credits scene, Pac-Man and a newly-confident Luigi walk down a corridor together Ghostbusters style.
 
Lord_Byron28 said:
Disagree. Other M's suit design was intentional due to the gameplay. One of the few things they got right in Other M was how Samus moved. She was flexible, acrobatic and a real hunter/fighter not the terminator. I dislike robot/terminator approach to her design. Granted I doubt that SSB will actually reflect her quicker, more flexible and acrobatic side as that would also diminish the point of ZSS. Although Prime did have some good suit design and it wouldn't have killed for Suit upgrades to Other M.
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Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree here, because I don't see it. I mean, I understand why they designed her the way they did (for the most part, there are still aspects of the design that are just bad art period), but I think a larger, more imposing Samus would be a lot more threatening moving as she does in Other M than the skinny pea-shooter equipped Samus of Other M moving as she does.

Concerning my "bad art," I feel the Other M suit design is just ugly period--the round smooth sections combined with the really harsh angles of some sections make it feel less cohesive than it should be, coupled with the indented lines across her suit sitting at odd geometric angles in stark contrast to the round areas of the suit they occupy. The green lights adorning her suit are fewer in number but overstated and gaudy--the chest lights in particular stand out as being over the top. All this is coupled by its ugly plastic sheen, and I think it adds up to a subpar design, probably the worst she's had since the original Metroid art.
 
Ryce said:
How would you guys direct the introduction trailers for future newcomers? Here's an idea I just had:

Pac-Man
Luigi is slinking through a haunted mansion with Poltergust in tow. As he turns a corner, a group of Pac-Man ghosts appear in front of him (timed with an outside lightning strike for dramatic effect), he turns his flashlight on, it has no effect, and he cowers in fear. Suddenly, the ghosts turn blue, their expressions go from menacing to alarmed, and then Pac-Man runs in from behind and eats them. Luigi stops cowering, looks around confused, and then shows his appreciation to Pac-Man. The camera closes in on Pac-Man who winks and gives a thumbs up: “Pac-Man [witty phrase]!” Cue gameplay trailer. In a brief post-credits scene, Pac-Man and a newly-confident Luigi walk down a corridor together Ghostbusters style.
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The Smash characters are all walking into a building, but Ridley can't get in because he's too big to fit through the door. After 20 seconds of trying to squeeze through he just breaks the wall down "Ridley bursts into the battle!"
Lord_Byron28 said:
Idk I don't see a massive difference and I personally think SSB4 Link looks a bit better. Sort of a halfway between TP and SS Link. Sort of cleaned him up and made him a hit more vibrant instead of gritty and dark. TP Link for reference:

twilight_princess_link.jpg


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The nose man, the nose!
 
Can't say I have too many complaints about the character models.

The look being cohesive across the board is the most important thing.

And I have yet to see a character who is jarring or looks out of place.
 
The finals are done.

Break has begun


Lets see what smash gaf is talking about


Oh joan rivers link.

Yes Yes he does look like joan rivers.
 
Lord_Byron28 said:
Idk I don't see a massive difference and I personally think SSB4 Link looks a bit better. Sort of a halfway between TP and SS Link. Sort of cleaned him up and made him a hit more vibrant instead of gritty and dark. TP Link for reference:

twilight_princess_link.jpg


gc_the_legend_of_zelda_twilight_princess_link.jpg
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Agreed! I immediately warmed up to this look because it's 95% Twilight Princess and 5% Skyward Sword. It's a nice middle ground that meshes into Smash 4's overall art design.
 
Ryce said:
How would you guys direct the introduction trailers for future newcomers? Here's an idea I just had:

Pac-Man
Luigi is slinking through a haunted mansion with Poltergust in tow. As he turns a corner, a group of Pac-Man ghosts appear in front of him (timed with an outside lightning strike for dramatic effect), he turns his flashlight on, it has no effect, and he cowers in fear. Suddenly, the ghosts turn blue, their expressions go from menacing to alarmed, and then Pac-Man runs in from behind and eats them. Luigi stops cowering, looks around confused, and then shows his appreciation to Pac-Man. The camera closes in on Pac-Man who winks and gives a thumbs up: “Pac-Man [witty phrase]!” Cue gameplay trailer. In a brief post-credits scene, Pac-Man and a newly-confident Luigi walk down a corridor together Ghostbusters style.
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That's pretty brilliant actually. Now I'm gonna be dissapointed when that doesn't happen.

ArchedThunder said:
The Smash characters are all walking into a building, but Ridley can't get in because he's too big to fit through the door. After 20 seconds of trying to squeeze through he just breaks the wall down "Ridley "
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To expand on your idea a bit:

Ridley is in pursuit of Samus in space. Samus lands at a space station and enters through a small door as ZSS and enters a teleporter. Ridley flies after her but gets stuck in the door. Meanwhile a comical scene ensues with Fox landing at the space station and runs in the door past Ridley who is stuck. Same thing happens with Captain Olimar with Pikmin and Meta Knight. Ridley screams angrily as the others run into the teleporter ignoring him. Then it shows the characters get teleported to Battlefield and the "Ready! Go!" SSB anouncer comes in and they begin battle. Then it flips to Ridley freeing himself, blasting through the door, teleporting to the stage and wrecking shit.

Another one:

Pit is flying around and Palutena begins her banter with Pit telling him how there's a very important matter he must address. Pit flies down and faces Link. Link touches the Triforce which summons Zelda to help him fight Pit. Meanwhile Pit smashes the Smashball and does his Final Smash from Brawl calling out for Lady Palutena to help him. However Palutena doesn't appear or respond. Then Palutena appears behind Link and hits him sending him flying.

As for Samus & Link design lets just agree to disagree.
 
Ryce said:
How would you guys direct the introduction trailers for future newcomers? Here's an idea I just had:

Pac-Man
Luigi is slinking through a haunted mansion with Poltergust in tow. As he turns a corner, a group of Pac-Man ghosts appear in front of him (timed with an outside lightning strike for dramatic effect), he turns his flashlight on, it has no effect, and he cowers in fear. Suddenly, the ghosts turn blue, their expressions go from menacing to alarmed, and then Pac-Man runs in from behind and eats them. Luigi stops cowering, looks around confused, and then shows his appreciation to Pac-Man. The camera closes in on Pac-Man who winks and gives a thumbs up: “Pac-Man [witty phrase]!” Cue gameplay trailer. In a brief post-credits scene, Pac-Man and a newly-confident Luigi walk down a corridor together Ghostbusters style.
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Damn... This needs to happen now.
 
An apology to those browsing this thread with a mobile device: This post is gonna suck.
Caladrious said:
Metroid Power Metal.

Why does it feel so good?
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Because it is good. It's just the narration that's hilarious, and hilarious narration fits a cheesy and awesome song.

"Samus is under fire! She sent an emergency directive: Join the fight!"

*Bitchin' guitar riff*

Also, suggesting some tracks to be remixed and covered in the next Smash.
The Tunnel
Dark Samus
Serris/Yakuza
Space Pirate Battle
Hive Mecha/Incinerator Drone
Metroid Queen
Rundas
Mutated Emperor Ing
Desbrachian
B.O.X. (Wow, Fusion's soundtrack was strange.)
Bryyo Cliffside
Metroid Prime 2 Title Screen
Metroid Prime 2 MENU Screen
Metroid Prime 2 Escape Theme

So basically, I threw in the kitchen sink. Some of these could use some work (Like B.O.X.'s theme is too short, Bryyo Cliffside needs to be more aggressive, and the Desbrachian theme needs more direction), but they have good energy for a Smash game and cover a wide-range of Metroid music. I was thinking you could combine a lot of them too, like the Emperor Ing theme and the Metroid Prime 2 title screen fit together very well, and the Tunnel could lead into the Metroid Queen music into the victory theme as a sort of Metroid 2 medley.

Also, we need the Other M rendition of Ridley's theme. It's too fucking good.

Just don't use the Other M Space Pirate theme.

Lord_Byron28 said:
Yeah its a shame how badly Sakurai does Metroid. He gives us lackluster stages, mediocre music selection, no Ridley and almost entirely ignores the Prime series. In an alternate universe there is a SSB with Samus & Ridley as playable characters, Phendrana Drifts, Sanctuary & Phaaze as stages and some good Prime music remixes.
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I'm bitter. I'll give a huge wall of text explanation on what I think he did wrong.

There are the characters. Samus is obvious, but Zero-Suit Samus is a head-scratcher. The Zero Suit has only been more than eye-candy twice, and that second time was in Other M years after Brawl. It's bizarre that Zero-Suit Samus would have priority over Ridley or Dark Samus (Or even Mother Brain... I still think she could work). Even ignoring the argument of "who should get in", Zero-Suit Samus is still a bizarre choice. In Zero Mission, you were weak and fragile without the Power Suit and had to rely on stealth. When I think of Metroid, the thing I least want to play as is "suitless Samus" because all the fun abilities in Metroid like the Morph Ball, the Speed Boost, the Grapple Beam, etc. come from the suit. Zero-Suit Samus still turned out to be a really fun character in Brawl (Certainly more fun than Brawl's other Samus), so I don't begrudge her inclusion too much, but can we at least now have Ridley?

Also, Samus in the Smash series is somewhat limited compared to her usual arsenal. I think the Grapple Beam, Missiles, and Bombs transitioned well, and I especially like how the Bomb jump aids with recovery just like the infinite bomb jump in Zero Mission and Super Metroid. I would have liked the Prime-style grapple beam on the other arm because it looks better, but still good. The Charge Shot in Smash is awful and works nothing like it does in the Metroid series. There's no beam switching or stacking, so you're stuck with the vanilla Charge Shot, and it's only good when charged up. You can't even charge it in the air like Lucario's Aura Sphere, even though Samus has always been able to charge while jumping. The Morph Ball also wasn't done well; it's supposed to be a strength, not a weakness, but it only makes her roll worse. Why can't Metroid crawl? The Screw Attack's angle and effect also act nothing like the games, but I guess an accurate Screw Attack would be the most broken thing in Smash, because it's already the most broken thing in Metroid.

The stage selection has been pitiful. The Metroid series has so many interesting places: Abandoned ghost ships haunted by actual ghosts, glowing caverns with radioactive mushrooms, organic tunnels overgrown by ravenous plant life, icy chasms filled with freezing water, technologically-advanced cities guarded by robots, ancient ruins covered in the writings of civilizations long past... Yet there has only been one Metroid stage in the Smash series that was not a lava-filled room. One. And that stage reuses Brinstar Depth's gimmick! I still appreciated Frigate Orpheon as a breath of fresh air, but then in Smash 4 we got another lava room. This is probably one of the biggest issues with Metroid in Smash: It's a series about exploring interesting alien places, so why are the stages so boring?

The soundtrack has some great tunes, but it's infuriatingly small and some of the choices are bad. There are four tracks from the Prime games: The menu theme, the Meta Ridley theme, the Parasite Queen theme, and the Prime 2 multiplayer theme. They're good, but there's so much more that Kenji Yamamoto composed. Where is Dark Samus? Space Pirate Battle? Hive Mecha/Incinerator Drone (My personal favorite Metroid track ever)? And as much as we complain about Sakamoto ignoring the Prime games, at least they have music. What about Metroid 2? Nothing. Zilch. Nada. I know people make fun of Metroid 2's minimal soundtrack, but I'd love to see a remix of The Tunnel or the Metroid Queen's boss theme. I used to think there were no Fusion tracks, but it turns out there is one; it's just one of the slower themes that doesn't work at all in a fighting game.

It's telling that almost every single piece of content from Metroid Prime (Menu theme, Meta Ridley, Meta Ridley's theme, Orpheon, the Parasite Queen theme) is from the very start of the game. The only exception I can think of is the Gravity Suit's blue visor. Even if Sakurai didn't like Metroid Prime enough to play past the tutorial, you'd expect at least one intern to go, "Oh, I love <insert Metroid Prime thing>, it's really cool, look at it, you should totally put it in." Because seriously, who wouldn't want the Phazon Suit?

But Smash 4 has Sakurai adding stuff from a new Metroid game, so I have hope. I don't care if it's Other M, I still have hope because he's finally embracing more Metroid. Samus once again has the suit from her newest game, and we have a stage that, while it's a bit typical, at least comes from the newest Metroid title.

(Now spam Sakurai's twitter with the Hive Mecha theme. So good.)

foxuzamaki said:
The thing people dont take into consideration is that samus' varia suit is suppose to be super flexible and fast among other things, its suppose to look powerful and such, but also look like she can actually move around in it, like in every game where she runs and jumps and all kinds of things that isnt in prime.
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Prime's movement and jumping are far more quick and flexible than people give the game credit for. There's a reason you can speedrun the game in an hour (Well, a reason besides the hilarious glitches).

But I think the bulky look fits Samus well in Smash because she's a bulky character; she's heavy, she's slow, and she is supposed to excel with firepower. If she were faster and more agile, then I would want a more lithe design, but the tank suit from Zero Mission works fine with her Brawl speed.
 
The Brinstar remix from Brawl is actually taken, for the most part, directly from Metroid Prime Pinball.

I don't begrudge the Metroid representation choices in Smash for the most part--to me the complaints sound more of "that's not what I would have done" and less of actual objective reasons. For instance, I personally think Frigate Orpheon is actually a pretty damn good choice for a Metroid Prime stage considering it was everyone's introduction to 3D Metroid period. It's like begrudging the choice of Green Hill Zone as Sonic's stage. Sure, maybe you would have preferred Sky Sanctuary or something, but there's a definite reason why Green Hill Zone was chosen. I feel the same for Frigate Orpheon. I absolutely consider it an iconic location of the Metroid Prime series. It's where it all began.

Music choice is pretty subjective, but it's probably better than the music choices from Pikmin, for instance. I think Other M has injected more bitterness in the fanbase in the form of malaise for all things not Metroid Prime than it really warranted.
 
Any chance that this game will get DLC? So much controversy over who gets to join the roster, that it seems like a possible move.

They could add in characters that wouldn't have made it in otherwise. I don't want them to hold back characters in order to use them as DLC, but I wouldn't mind getting extra stages/characters/etc. than we got in Brawl as DLC.
 
Megidolaon said:
Any chance that this game will get DLC? So much controversy over who gets to join the roster, that it seems like a possible move.

They could add in characters that wouldn't have made it in otherwise. I don't want them to hold back characters in order to use them as DLC, but I wouldn't mind getting extra stages/characters/etc. than we got in Brawl as DLC.
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that wouldn't really stop the controversy, it'd just move the discussion to the fringe characters
 
Megidolaon said:
Any chance that this game will get DLC? So much controversy over who gets to join the roster, that it seems like a possible move.

They could add in characters that wouldn't have made it in otherwise. I don't want them to hold back characters in order to use them as DLC, but I wouldn't mind getting extra stages/characters/etc. than we got in Brawl as DLC.
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That was one of the first things ruled out IIRC.
 
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