Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments

Am I crazy for still thinking that Bowser Jr. is a very likely hidden character? It seems support for him died off after Rosalina's reveal, but two newcomers isn't a stretch for Nintendo's best-selling and most popular franchise.

Consider that Sunshine was the only main Mario game released between the development of Melee and Brawl. Since then, there have been two completely distinct new series in New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy. Bowser Jr.'s a recurring boss in the Galaxy games, but more importantly, he's the main antagonist of New Super Mario Bros. His father pops up at the end as the final boss, but Bowser Jr. has a focal presence throughout the course of both NSMB and NSMB Wii; he kidnaps Peach, shows up multiple times as a boss, and appears at the end. It also happens that NSMB is the best-selling game on the DS, and NSMB Wii is the fifth best-selling Wii game. A lot of people are familiar with Bowser Jr.

I can just... feel it. He's precisely the type of character that Sakurai seems to like. He's cloney enough to be a relatively easy addition, but his smaller stature, speed, and "weakness" are enough to set him apart from Bowser -- and that's not even considering the possibility of using his paintbrush or utilizing his various machines.
 
I'm curious as to what particular statement got Vampirolol banned? Just don't want to tread the same ground.

I too want to see some badass characters revealed. Nothing wrong with who has been revealed so far, and I don't discrimate the wiminz (Villager and NES Mega Man are pretty much equally not-badass to me). The most badass new thing so far has been their perfect choice in a redesigned Marth costume.

But I too want to see Shulk or Ghirahim or a new Fire Emblem character or something . Been a bit cutesy overload so far, with some really fucking cool untapped potential still out there.

Oh and even if they don't change anything about him, Falcon is badass incarnate and I can't wait to see him again in what has basically become his new home game series.
 
Miyamoto is resentful of the Koopalings.
 
Bowser Jr. is a character I'm indifferent towards, but I feel like Sakurai has plenty of stuff to work with for his moveset to make him different from Bowser.

Bowser Jr. Moveset:
Neutral Special: Fire Balls - Shoots fire balls (not constantly breathing fire like Bowser)
Side Special: Paintbrush Flick - Whips out the brush and causes paint to come out, if it makes contact with an opponent, then it will cause continuous damage like the flower thing (not sure what it is called)
Down Special: Ground Pound
Up Special: Clown Car
 
Ryce said:
Bowser Jr. isn't technically a Koopaling, and Miyamoto isn't fond of Rosalina either, but she's in Smash Bros. anyway. Sakurai makes the roster decisions.
Click to expand...

I was half serious. And I wasn't talking about Lil'Bowser.
 
Ryce said:
Am I crazy for still thinking that Bowser Jr. is a very likely hidden character? It seems support for him died off after Rosalina's reveal, but two newcomers isn't a stretch for Nintendo's best-selling and most popular franchise.

Consider that Sunshine was the only main Mario game released between the development of Melee and Brawl. Since then, there have been two completely distinct new series in New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy. Bowser Jr.'s a recurring boss in the Galaxy games, but more importantly, he's the main antagonist of New Super Mario Bros. His father pops up at the end as the final boss, but Bowser Jr. has a focal presence throughout the course of both NSMB and NSMB Wii; he kidnaps Peach, shows up multiple times as a boss, and appears at the end. It also happens that NSMB is the best-selling game on the DS, and NSMB Wii is the fifth best-selling Wii game. A lot of people are familiar with Bowser Jr.

I can just... feel it. He's precisely the type of character that Sakurai seems to like. He's cloney enough to be a relatively easy addition, but his smaller stature, speed, and "weakness" are enough to set him apart from Bowser -- and that's not even considering the possibility of using his paintbrush or utilizing his various machines.
Click to expand...

I think you're right that baby Bowser will be showng up on the battlefield, but it still seems like it could go either way between playable character and AT. Stranger things have happened (READ: Pichu and Young Link) though =) No matter what happens, that paintbrush will be in his hands.
 
I'M FINISHED! said:
Miyamoto is resentful of the Koopalings.
Click to expand...

Interesting, why doesn't he like them? Granted, Miyamoto's tastes probably don't matter for Smash but I wonder what characters he doesn't like in particular. (aside from Rosalina who he thinks is a Peach variant and DKC characters in which case he is very wrong. :p)

Edit: Already spoke my mind on Bowser Jr. but it is odd that Sakurai (trophy aside) completely skipped over him in Brawl by having Waluigi, Hammer Bro, and 8-bit Lakitu all getting AT status over him.
 
It's sticky ground with Bowser Jr. I would like to see him being playable character but I think Rosalina would be final Mario character for Smash 4. I might be biased because I would like to see more characters from new franchises that haven't had any playable characters in Smash series, such as Punch Out, etc.


Mit- said:
I'm curious as to what particular statement got Vampirolol banned? Just don't want to tread the same ground.

I too want to see some badass characters revealed. Nothing wrong with who has been revealed so far, and I don't discrimate the wiminz (Villager and NES Mega Man are pretty much equally not-badass). The most badass new thing so far has been their perfect choice in a redesigned Marth costume.

But I too want to see Shulk or Ghirahim or a new Fire Emblem character or something . Been a bit cutesy overload so far, with some really fucking cool untapped potential still out there.

Oh and even if they don't change anything about him, Falcon is badass incarnate and I can't wait to see him again in what has basically become his new home game series.
Click to expand...

Badass characters, like Takamaru or Isaac?
 
oreomunsta said:
Don't let it bother you, you'll have portable Smashing and they won't in the end =) Seriously though, Sakurai has already shown what he can pull off on the 3ds with Uprising, and I'm pretty sure not many people who played through the game thought that the 3ds was capable of so much.

Also, a fighting game shouldn't be based on how technically impressive it is, but on how much fun it is! Bleach: Dark Souls is my favourite non-Smash fighting game simply because of how it feels when I'm playing it (notwithstanding that I really like Bleach, but then again my brother loves that game too and he's never seen or read Bleach) and easily trumps SFIV, SF2, MvC3, MvC2, BlazBlue, and MK in my mind simply because of how much fun it is. I have a feeling Smash will be the same case, not that it doesn't already look technically impressive for the handheld. I think Sakurai was talking about Bowser recently, and how he was simply focusing on making Bowser feel fun above all else when balancing him.

Wow there's been a lot of drama in Smashgaf over the last few pages =S I feel I'm one of the people getting mentioned as a "I don't like X, so X shouldn't be in the game" so I should defend my viewpoint and hopefully do it in a way that doesn't insult or anger anyone. I don't like Pacman, I really, really don't. Yes, my personal feelings are that he shouldn't be included in the game, and that's fair since they are my feelings, after all. If someone does want Pacs in, and is hyped for them, then all the power to them =) I think because this is a forum dedicated to Smash we should be allowed to discuss why he should or shouldn't be in the game and we did so before. I'm hailing Neiteio as Pacman's champion since he argues for the character so well and honestly, his arguements for Pacman's inclusion are better than mine for him not being in. Does that mean I'm terrible for not wanting him in? Not necessarily (I hope not) because my feelings toward the character are unchanged, but yeah, I have to concede that the arguement for him is a better one. I will not be disappointed if Pacs doesn't show. If he does show, then fine since it would make sense and it's not like he would ruin the whole game, but he's now my punching bag >=)

TLDR: 3ds version will be fine, just believe in Sakurai. Sakurai focuses on making games fun. I still don't like Pacman and am entitled to my opinion. If he shows up I shouldn't and won't be angry about it because there are good arguements for him being in.
Click to expand...
Really nice post (and I was going to say that by the time I was halfway through, before I read your compliment -- your post is very thoughtful and that's always appreciated).

I can understand someone not caring much for Pac-Man, but who knows -- you might end up really liking Sakurai's take on him, if he ends up being in the game. :)
 
Ryce said:
Am I crazy for still thinking that Bowser Jr. is a very likely hidden character? It seems support for him died off after Rosalina's reveal, but two newcomers isn't a stretch for Nintendo's best-selling and most popular franchise.

Consider that Sunshine was the only main Mario game released between the development of Melee and Brawl. Since then, there have been two completely distinct new series in New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy. Bowser Jr.'s a recurring boss in the Galaxy games, but more importantly, he's the main antagonist of New Super Mario Bros. His father pops up at the end as the final boss, but Bowser Jr. has a focal presence throughout the course of both NSMB and NSMB Wii; he kidnaps Peach, shows up multiple times as a boss, and appears at the end. It also happens that NSMB is the best-selling game on the DS, and NSMB Wii is the fifth best-selling Wii game. A lot of people are familiar with Bowser Jr.

I can just... feel it. He's precisely the type of character that Sakurai seems to like. He's cloney enough to be a relatively easy addition, but his smaller stature, speed, and "weakness" are enough to set him apart from Bowser -- and that's not even considering the possibility of using his paintbrush or utilizing his various machines.
Click to expand...

I'd say abandon hope and if he ends up as a secret character you can celebrate. Maybe I'm pessimistic that rather than adding another Mario newcomer, Sakurai would bring Dr. Mario back. :/
 
I'M FINISHED! said:
Miyamoto is resentful of the Koopalings.
Click to expand...
He's right then. Those fuckers destroyed the NSMB series for me. NSMBDS started of with Bowser Jr. as mini boss and a varied amount of boss enemies. In NSMBWii the Koopalings were reintroduced and since then they (besides Kamek) were the ONLY bosses of the series. Couldn't finish Super Mario 3D Land because I'm burned out on Koopalings, 3D Worlds saving grace were the more varied bosses.
 
Ryce said:
Am I crazy for still thinking that Bowser Jr. is a very likely hidden character? It seems support for him died off after Rosalina's reveal, but two newcomers isn't a stretch for Nintendo's best-selling and most popular franchise.

Consider that Sunshine was the only main Mario game released between the development of Melee and Brawl. Since then, there have been two completely distinct new series in New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy. Bowser Jr.'s a recurring boss in the Galaxy games, but more importantly, he's the main antagonist of New Super Mario Bros. His father pops up at the end as the final boss, but Bowser Jr. has a focal presence throughout the course of both NSMB and NSMB Wii; he kidnaps Peach, shows up multiple times as a boss, and appears at the end. It also happens that NSMB is the best-selling game on the DS, and NSMB Wii is the fifth best-selling Wii game. A lot of people are familiar with Bowser Jr.

I can just... feel it. He's precisely the type of character that Sakurai seems to like. He's cloney enough to be a relatively easy addition, but his smaller stature, speed, and "weakness" are enough to set him apart from Bowser -- and that's not even considering the possibility of using his paintbrush or utilizing his various machines.
Click to expand...
I never really thought much about Bowser Jr. -- he gave a bad first impression in Sunshine, although that was mainly to do with his voice, and every character sounded terrible in that game. But you're right -- he's been a regular in the 2D and 3D Mario titles. And really, if he were made into a Smash Bros. character, he wouldn't even have to be a clone of Bowser. In fact, I'd be surprised if he was a clone.

I see him as a very compact "ball-like" character that scampers around the battlefield, sliding in and out of his shell, Squirtle-style. He could brandish the paintbrush, plastering foes with speed-inhibiting paint that they have to shake off. He could unleash Cosmic Mario clones that rush forward and attack. Nothing too strong -- more like a distraction tactic. Bowser Jr. could also spit fireballs, fire off slow but heat-seeking Bullet Bills, and of course hop in his miniature Koopa Clown Car (complete with extend-o-boxing gloves) as an Up B recovery and attack. He could even summon Mega Hammer from Super Mario Galaxy 2 as his Final Smash.

He has tons of potential, and as Bowser's recurring sidekick and the most notable "main character" not yet represented in Smash (with even more appearances between Brawl and now), he does seem possible. Changing Bowser back to his bright primary colors, in hindsight, might be to make him more consistent with Bowser Jr.!
 
Gartooth said:
Interesting, why doesn't he like them? Granted, Miyamoto's tastes probably don't matter for Smash but I wonder what characters he doesn't like in particular. (aside from Rosalina who he thinks is a Peach variant and DKC characters in which case he is very wrong. :p)

Edit: Already spoke my mind on Bowser Jr. but it is odd that Sakurai (trophy aside) completely skipped over him in Brawl by having Waluigi, Hammer Bro, and 8-bit Lakitu all getting AT status over him.
Click to expand...

I was just poking fun at the internet urban legend regarding Miyamoto and things added to his creations that he isn't directly responsible for. The Kremlins are the better example of this thought infecting discussion though.


Ryce said:
Oh, I guess I assumed you were since your post followed mine. Never mind!
Click to expand...

I was. The bad semi-joke I made was suggesting that Miyamoto's distaste for the Koopalings makes Bowser Jr. more likely.
 
Gartooth said:
Interesting, why doesn't he like them? Granted, Miyamoto's tastes probably don't matter for Smash but I wonder what characters he doesn't like in particular. (aside from Rosalina who he thinks is a Peach variant and DKC characters in which case he is very wrong. :p)

Edit: Already spoke my mind on Bowser Jr. but it is odd that Sakurai (trophy aside) completely skipped over him in Brawl by having Waluigi, Hammer Bro, and 8-bit Lakitu all getting AT status over him.
Click to expand...

It kinda seems like Miyamoto really has a spot in his heart only for very unique things. What I mean is that he likes franchises and ideas that bring something new for gaming. Pikmin, the first Mario and Zeldas, Pacman Vs. for assymetrical gameplay, etc. are things he very much loved. Rosalina, Koopalings, and ALBW weren't different and unique enough to him. When ALBW first got proposed, Miyamoto hated it and rejected the proposal, calling the idea 20 years old.

Neiteio said:
Really nice post (and I was going to say that by the time I was halfway through, before I read your compliment -- your post is very thoughtful and that's always appreciated).

I can understand someone not caring much for Pac-Man, but who knows -- you might end up really liking Sakurai's take on him, if he ends up being in the game. :)
Click to expand...

Why thank you! ^^ I don't know if I'll be changed on Pacman; it's possible though. I really like Snake as character, and when he was announced years ago my mind was blown. But when I finally got my hands on him and saw how OP he was, I swore to never play as him unless it was for completion haha
 
I'M FINISHED! said:
I was just poking fun at the internet urban legend regarding Miyamoto and things added to his creations that he isn't directly responsible for. The Kremlins are the better example of this thought infecting discussion though.
Click to expand...
What's Miyamoto's opinion on the Russians again?

Really no clue why DKCR not having this or that was always attributed to Miyamoto; the impression I got from interviews was the main reason why there were even animal buddies and Cranky Kong in the end was because when Retro asked which characters he felt were 'vital' to DKC outside of the main two Kongs, those were who he mentioned.
 
KHlover said:
He's right then. Those fuckers destroyed the NSMB series for me. NSMBDS started of with Bowser Jr. as mini boss and a varied amount of boss enemies. In NSMBWii the Koopalings were reintroduced and since then they (besides Kamek) were the ONLY bosses of the series. Couldn't finish Super Mario 3D Land because I'm burned out on Koopalings, 3D Worlds saving grace were the more varied bosses.
Click to expand...

The Koopalings can do whatever the developers want them to, putting them in the game doesn't necessarily imply boss battle uniformity, and I would argue the Koopaling battles in NSMB Wii were much better than the boss battles in NSMB DS. Jumping on the heads of giant henchmen isn't that exciting or creative.
 
IntelliHeath said:
Wait what? Are they going to wait and see who made to newcomer roster before adding a new character to the roster on Project Melee?
Click to expand...
Well, they haven't started on any new characters, and they've said they wouldn't put any Smash 4 newcomers in it to avoid C&D's, I imagine they'd try to avoid yet to be unveiled newcomers as well.
 
Fiktion said:
I heard they wanted to avoid stepping on Nintendo's toes so they're not putting any SSB4 characters in.
Click to expand...

Mit- said:
Well, they haven't started on any new characters, and they've said they wouldn't put any Smash 4 newcomers in it to avoid C&D's, I imagine they'd try to avoid yet to be unveiled newcomers as well.
Click to expand...

Alright, that sound good. Look like we will have to wait for awhile, but they deserved a break after delivering it with Project M 3.0.

No offense, but I would like to see Palutena, Takamaru, Little Mac and Isaac to get in SSB4.
 
Astrosanity said:
What's Miyamoto's opinion on the Russians again?

Really no clue why DKCR not having this or that was always attributed to Miyamoto; the impression I got from interviews was the main reason why there were even animal buddies and Cranky Kong in the end was because when Retro asked which characters he felt were 'vital' to DKC outside of the main two Kongs, those were who he mentioned.
Click to expand...

The Soviets edited my post.

There was an internet rumor around the time that DKC: R was announced at e3 that Miyamoto actually told Retro that he didn't want the Kremlings in the game, it was never proven, and most likely made up.
 
I want Krystal if only to ensure we get some Star Fox Adventures music.

(Why on earth did Brawl not have Star Fox Adventures music? FUCK.)
 
I'M FINISHED! said:
The Koopalings can do whatever the developers want them to, putting them in the game doesn't necessarily imply boss battle uniformity, and I would argue the Koopaling battles in NSMB Wii were much better than the boss battles in NSMB DS. Jumping on the heads of giant henchmen isn't that exciting or creative.
Click to expand...
I don't argue against them in NSMBW, I argue against them in every game after NSMBW.
 
I wonder how everyone here would react if Magnus was added before Palutena. Magnus seems like a very underrated character, but I think he has one of the best chances at being playable moreso than any other KI character Palutena aside. He's not exactly a main character, but being in a playable role in Uprising makes it hard to ignore him.
 
Gartooth said:
I wonder how everyone here would react if Magnus was added before Palutena. Magnus seems like a very underrated character, but I think he has one of the best chances at being playable moreso than any other KI character Palutena aside. He's not exactly a main character, but being in a playable role in Uprising makes it hard to ignore him.
Click to expand...

I like Magnus, but Palutena could easily be playable too and she's way more important than Magnus.
 
Gartooth said:
I wonder how everyone here would react if Magnus was added before Palutena. Magnus seems like a very underrated character, but I think he has one of the best chances at being playable moreso than any other KI character Palutena aside. He's not exactly a main character, but being in a playable role in Uprising makes it hard to ignore him.
Click to expand...


I don't see Magnus having a very interesting moveset honestly.
 
Gartooth said:
I wonder how everyone here would react if Magnus was added before Palutena. Magnus seems like a very underrated character, but I think he has one of the best chances at being playable moreso than any other KI character Palutena aside. He's not exactly a main character, but being in a playable role in Uprising makes it hard to ignore him.
Click to expand...

By that same logic,
the dog
should be playable too X^) Jokes aside, Magnus wouldn't offer many new playstyles that we haven't already seen in Smash, I'd bet he'd be similar to Ike if anything. Palutena would have the higher potential for bringing something new to Smash. That said, Magnus must show up! I hope he gets made into an AT, at least.
 
Mauricio_Magus said:
I like Magnus, but Palutena could easily be playable too and she's way more important than Magnus.
Click to expand...

I like Palutena better as a character and think she would be very interesting to play as, but I just thought I should bring it up because it seems like she is assumed to be in when we can't really "assume" anything in Smash Bros.
 
oreomunsta said:
By that same logic,
the dog
should be playable too X^) Jokes aside, Magnus wouldn't offer many new playstyles that we haven't already seen in Smash, I'd bet he'd be similar to Ike if anything. Palutena would have the higher potential for bringing something new to Smash. That said, Magnus must show up! I hope he gets made into an AT, at least.
Click to expand...

little girl
for smash
 
KHlover said:
I don't argue against them in NSMBW, I argue against them in every game after NSMBW.
Click to expand...

I want them in a 3D Mario game. Boom Boom and Pom Pom aren't Koopalings, so they don't count. There is no reason why they can't be included in addition to other boss fights. There needs to be a game where Mario has to face them all at once.
 
Gartooth said:
I wonder how everyone here would react if Magnus was added before Palutena. Magnus seems like a very underrated character, but I think he has one of the best chances at being playable moreso than any other KI character Palutena aside. He's not exactly a main character, but being in a playable role in Uprising makes it hard to ignore him.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with Magnus but knowing its probable implication I would likely start flipping tables
 
I'M FINISHED! said:
I want them in a 3D Mario game. Boom Boom and Pom Pom aren't Koopalings, so they don't count. There is no reason why they can't be included in addition to other boss fights. There needs to be a game where Mario has to face them all at once.
Click to expand...

NSMB2 teases you with a potential massive showdown and then it never happens. Such a waste...
 
Oh fuck, I just realized there's part of the original character select screen music in the new game's main theme (or at least trailer theme.)
 
BY2K said:
Oh fuck, I just realized there's part of the original character select screen music in the new game's main theme (or at least trailer theme.)
Click to expand...

Yeah, took me a while but I finally got that it was the original select screen music around a couple months ago. Took everyone a while to get it though, it seems.
 
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