Fear of losing access to digital purchases (consoles, not PC related)

Yuripaw

Banned
Lately I've been thinking, maybe a little too much, but thinking nonetheless. For the past few years, I warmed up to the idea of going digital in a pretty big way. It helped alleviate the temptation I often had to sell or trade in games before I was ever finished with them, which often led to me rebuying games and ultimately spending more money than I probably should have on one title. Plus there was the ease of access; digital games are nice because you just boot up the system, and start the game, no disc swapping needed.

Slowly but surely, over the past 3 or 4 years, my purchases of retail games over their respected networks started to increase. PSN was always offering pretty good sales in additional to PS plus, and I was often able to find good deals on Microsoft Points which made buying games on demand titles easy and fairly cheap. On xbox 360, and PS3, I probably own more than 100 games digitally on each platform easily by now. Some smaller games, but at least a 1/3 being a full retail game. Even after I bought my Wii U, I started going heavily. Currently all my games on the Wii U are digital.

My choice to go digital initially wasn't instant; I too still find something appealing about the retail packaging of some games, even though they're more bare bones then ever. I still kinda want that line up of games on my shelf for each platform, and see it slowly grow over time. That's beside the point though.

What brings me to the reason why this thread is here. I still think I have nothing wrong with the idea of having a game digitally, but recently I've been thinking, and it's partially to blame because I linger here on GAF so much reading the threads of doom and gloom in the industry sometimes. What started me getting a little worried is...what's gonna happen when the service for these platforms are shut down? Maybe it won't happen today, or next year, or 3 years from now...but let's focus on PS3 and Xbox 360 first....how much longer do you guys think they're going to see the value in supporting platforms like these if the PS4 and Xbox One continue to be successful? Even if they maintain a modest level of support for years to come, I can't help but think there's gonna be that day where the switch is flipped, and you can't even log in anymore. I still am a little concerned that maybe these platforms WONT be supported for that long, because I look at both Sony and Microsoft, and I don't know if I like their track record for keeping services alive. Microsoft shut down the original Xbox I feel like at a real shitty time, because Halo 2 was still fairly popular. Whereas Sony hasn't really done anything like that yet, because they haven't had a whole platform prior to PS3, but I find it a little shocking still that they have shut down servers for games like Gran Turismo 5 which I feel aren't even that old yet! Yet we got GT6 which just came out, but I don't feel like everyone just up and got that on day one. There may have been plenty of low income fans who got GT5 in the past year.

Now some of you might say "that's so far off before anything like that happens, I wouldn't need to play those games at that point anymore", and that's perfectly fine for some of you, but I still like the idea that I own my games, and if I buy something, and I want to play it today, tomorrow, or 10 years from now...I'd like to be able to, and continue having access to it. I still got my original Nintendo, I still got the commodore 64, and even my parent's old Atari 2600 which is older than me...those games are so old, but because we bought them, we can play them, and pass them on as long as we want. This idea of going digitally and the fact that I can just lose access to my games one day, because some corporation decided to flip a switch is really discouraging, especially from continuing to go digital going forward.

Even if we're not talking about some system that is old and outdated, and past it's prime long in the future. My decision to go so heavily digital on Wii U is really feeling like a mistake because of the poor sales performance of the platform. I love the Wii U, and I love the games on it, but...let's assume doom and gloom for a minute: What if Nintendo can't turn the platform around? What then? What if this time next year, we're looking a situation where supporting the Wii U at all is no longer financially feasible for Nintendo, and they may have to shut that platform down.

Granted, a lot of the things I'm pointing out are extreme, and negative only. These companies might find a work around, or find some way of making it work....who knows. I just know right now, the uncertainty about the digital landscape on all platforms has me a little concerned. What do you guys think, and how do you feel about digital purchases of retail games on consoles?
 
Is it really a big deal if they shut down and you lose access to your games?

Yes, because at that point I feel like something of mine has essentially just been stolen from me. It's not the point whether or not I still play a game I own or not, it's the point that I bought it, and that it's mine. If I want to lose access to it, I like to have the choice that I either gave it to someone, or sold it. I can have that choice, even for games I bought 20 years ago. Going digital means some guy in a suit somewhere can say "I'm going to take this away from you" without me getting anything in return for it, and just losing something without any compensation.
 
Is it really a big deal if they shut down and you lose access to your games?

Yes, very much so.

Yes, because at that point I feel like something of mine has essentially just been stolen from me. It's not the point whether or not I still play a game I own or not, it's the point that I bought it, and that it's mine. If I want to lose access to it, I like to have the choice that I either gave it to someone, or sold it. I can have that choice, even for games I bought 20 years ago. Going digital means some guy in a suit somewhere can say "I'm going to take this away from you" without me getting anything in return for it, and just losing something without any compensation.

Because you were purchasing a license to play the game and not the game itself and bla bla bla, I hate this crap. I hated it when I lost my ability to redownload the NG Hurricane Packs and I'll hate it when the same things happen to XBL or PSN on a more massive scale.
 
In my opinion , Digital is the future were all destined to live with. Sooner or later it would be the standard. Especially if ms brings back the family share plan and demo any game for 15 minutes, heck I forgot where I read this but I think there was a rumor where ms was gonna allow the resell of digital games via license transfers.
 
This is only tangentially related, but my 3ds top buttons suck ass but I'm hesitant to get them repaired because of all the digital crap I have on there (I'm an ambassador).
 
This is only tangentially related, but my 3ds top buttons suck ass but I'm hesitant to get them repaired because of all the digital crap I have on there (I'm an ambassador).

Well, at least in your current situation, if you did get another 3DS, you can still do the license transfer to another 3DS. However yeah, that is still a concern, because even license transfers require you to have internet access and perform a verification on Nintendo's side, so any 3DS owners who are attached to their digital collection better hope that service stays kicking for a long time.
 
It's definitely a risk, especially when you don't trust the platform makers. its hard to tell what Sony or Microsoft will do to the old consoles when the release a new one. i'd assume they would either keep it open until the console has a extremely small playerbase or shut it in order to get people to get the next one.

as for those wondering what happens if steam shuts down

4sa1Ln6.jpg
 
to be honest, I second that fear!
But I still think (regardless of how stupid companies might act atm) that they will somehow flip the switch at the end of their console's (or service's) lifecycle so that you can download all your stuff to your hard drive and never have to connect to their service again.
I cannot imagine that they would never plan ahead that far.
 
It's definitely a risk, especially when you don't trust the platform makers. its hard to tell what Sony or Microsoft will do to the old consoles when the release a new one. i'd assume they would either keep it open until the console has a extremely small playerbase or shut it in order to get people to get the next one.

as for those wondering what happens if steam shuts down

4sa1Ln6.jpg

Nice answer from Steam.
I wish it also the same for Sony and microsoft.

Who knows, maybe at the end of their service, they allow user to download and copy it to dvd/blue ray/external HDD?
 
I have Dreamcast games where content is missing because I can no longer access and download them. I don't like it there and that's barely anything that honestly matters content wise, I really don't care for it when it comes to full games.

Mind you there are some ZX Spectrum games that I used to type in from code off the last few pages of a magazine each month that I can no longer play due to type once/read once experiences and I would love to play some of them again. So what do I know, I like playing games and I dislike not being able to play games I want to simply because they are no longer around [legally].

That future of "always online cloud" and games existing purely at the discretion of a service being offered constantly is only truly good in my mind in the future of that communist society called Star Trek, but that's not where we are today or anytime soon. I would settle for the future of Fireball XL5 however, less games but better music
 
You know, I mostly agree with you but after a recent experience of being robbed a couple of weeks ago and having 45 of mostly PS3 games stolen, and re-examinging my game collection, the end result ends up the same with digital and physical. Over time physical games disappear too for a variety of reasons. I only have have very few games prior to PS2 era for example, they just sort of disappear over time as life goes on. Unless you intend to become a collector and store each generation's games fairly carefully and keep devoting more space to this goal, most of your physical games will disappear as well, though maybe slower than the digital games. With that said, I still feel much better if they disappear due to my own carelessness than companies deciding to pull the plug, even if the end result ends up being the same.
 
One of the many reasons I still buy physical copies. I know people say you can get robbed, lose, or break your games, but I'd rather at least have some control over the fate of my collection.

The only reason I game on PC and use Steam is because of the low ass prices I pay for the games. I'm fine with DRM (yes, Steam is a form of DRM) and the games one day being nuked because I pay pennies for them. I don't think I've ever paid more than $15 for a Steam game and with no physical copy, plus the chance of them being nuked, I likely never will.

That being said, I rarely pay full price for my retail games either. I paid full price for Tales of Graces F and Dragon's Dogma and I regretted the fuck out of that. Fire Emblem: Awakening and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate on the other hand were worth every cent.The only way I'll buy anything digital on a console/portable is if that's the only way it was released (Senran Kagura) and for niche stuff like that I'm more than happy to.

tl;dr Who the hell knows, that's why I buy physical copies and pay next to nothing for digital PC games.
 
not much you can do about it, sadly, out of your control.

except maybe going back to physical copies.

Which is something I started considering recently...I was going over my list of games I've gotten digitally, and man it's such a long list...but I'm really thinking about it.

Just to give you guys an idea, these are some of the games I put on my list for each system that I knew I didn't want to lose, and was thinking of buying physically:

PS3:
battlefield 3
tales of xillia
puppeteer
the last of us
playstation all stars
dragon's crown
ratchet collection
ratchet all 4 one
god of war ascension
god of war saga
dead or alive ultimate
final fantasy xiii-2
infamous
infamous 2
dmc collection
sf x tekken
remember me
red dead redemption
gta5
jak collection
little big planet karting
little big planet 2
resident evil 5 gold
ratchet full frontal
dragon's dogma dark arisen
ico collection
demon's souls
king of fighters 13

Xb360:
Mass Effect
Civilization Revolution
Banjo Kazooie N&B
Tales of Vesperia
Halo Reach
Gears of War 3
Syndicate

Wii U:
pikmin 3
wonderful 101
super mario 3d world
new super mario bros u
new super luigi u
tekken tag
sonic lost world
NG3 razors edge

This isn't everything I own on each of those platforms, but like I said, I was going over my games and making a list of just the ones I was considering rebuying =/
 
Is it really a big deal if they shut down and you lose access to your games?

This is like the anti-first post!

I know steam has something in place so you still get your games.

Not sure about consoles. I would hope Sony and Microsoft have something in place to ensure there's no way you lose your purchased downloads. >_<
 
Yes, because at that point I feel like something of mine has essentially just been stolen from me. It's not the point whether or not I still play a game I own or not, it's the point that I bought it, and that it's mine. If I want to lose access to it, I like to have the choice that I either gave it to someone, or sold it. I can have that choice, even for games I bought 20 years ago. Going digital means some guy in a suit somewhere can say "I'm going to take this away from you" without me getting anything in return for it, and just losing something without any compensation.


WTF? of course it is. I suppose PC gamers wouldn't care if steam shut down and didnt let the games go drm free before then huh?

I know I wouldn't.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who treats games as consumables. Would you really be upset if the food from your fridge disappeared?

Personally, for me, once a gen is over, I'm done with those games. I never feel the need to replay a game because there's always a great game which I haven't played. Sure, there are games which I've bought multiple times like the PS1/PS2 FF games or some of the PS2 HD games but it's not the end of the world if I don't get to replay them.
 
I know I wouldn't.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who treats games as consumables. Would you really be upset if the food from your fridge disappeared?

Personally, for me, once a gen is over, I'm done with those games. I never feel the need to replay a game because there's always a great game which I haven't played. Sure, there are games which I've bought multiple times like the PS1/PS2 FF games or some of the PS2 HD games but it's not the end of the world if I don't get to replay them.

Of course I would! I freaking love food.
 
It's definitely a risk, especially when you don't trust the platform makers. its hard to tell what Sony or Microsoft will do to the old consoles when the release a new one. i'd assume they would either keep it open until the console has a extremely small playerbase or shut it in order to get people to get the next one.

as for those wondering what happens if steam shuts down

4sa1Ln6.jpg

I'm inclined to think this is fake, but out of curiosity I myself have submitted a ticket to Support. I do vaguely recall Gabe's post on SPUF many years ago but it was before Steam began selling third-party games so naturally it was easy for Valve to assuage such concerns regarding its own titles.
 
It's a big problem, the best thing to do is have everything downloaded to your system I guess.

30 years from now some games will be hard to find outside of surviving systems with the games downloaded to them.
 
Back up your console hard drives. I'm looking into backing up my 360/PS3 HDDs at the moment.

Think of it this way. If you snap your discs, the same thing happens. Join us in the future and never buy a game on physical media again.
 
I know I wouldn't.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who treats games as consumables. Would you really be upset if the food from your fridge disappeared?

Personally, for me, once a gen is over, I'm done with those games. I never feel the need to replay a game because there's always a great game which I haven't played. Sure, there are games which I've bought multiple times like the PS1/PS2 FF games or some of the PS2 HD games but it's not the end of the world if I don't get to replay them.

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling right now. I bought the freaking game! It's mine, forever!
I didn't rent it until the service shuts down (even though I am pretty sure there's something in the EULA about me not owning the games blabla)

And I will ALWAYS go back to my old games. You can't just quit Destruction Derby on PS1 or Donkey Kong Country on Snes...you just can't!
 
Back up your console hard drives. I'm looking into backing up my 360/PS3 HDDs at the moment.

Think of it this way. If you snap your discs, the same thing happens. Join us in the future and never buy a game on physical media again.

Physical games will be forever available. Digital games are gone once the server shuts down. It's not the same thing.
 
It's definitely a risk, especially when you don't trust the platform makers. its hard to tell what Sony or Microsoft will do to the old consoles when the release a new one. i'd assume they would either keep it open until the console has a extremely small playerbase or shut it in order to get people to get the next one.

as for those wondering what happens if steam shuts down

4sa1Ln6.jpg

Why would you trust Microsoft and digital purchases? When XBox 360 came out they never let you get the old DLC for BC games on the 360. You had to pay for it again if you wanted it (eg PGR2).

And to boot, they shut the servers off in the end anyway, so if you want them again then you're shit outta luck.
 
Even though there is that possibility of "download all your games before the service shuts down", so you wouldn't lose access to any games immediately, the problem persists when you don't know your hardware will stay reliable for long. Everything gets linked to a single console, so it's like once that system kicks the bucket, or the hard drive fails, then you're screwed.
 
I dunno, man. It is something that I think about, but I'm not happy with the conclusion I've arrived at. I don't think I care, and I don't know why I don't care. The platforms that I'm actively using are generally healthy and I'd be shocked and annoyed if I lost access to my games tomorrow, but beyond that, I'm not so sure. I have around 80 XBLA games and yet I haven't played my 360 in months and I'm not sure I'll bother playing it again. What happens to those XBLA titles? I still have access to them, but in a format that isn't all that convenient to me so I don't bother with 'em. If MS cut off my access tomorrow would I give a shit? I'm not sure I would. Even games I love like Ikaruga, Trials HD and Rez HD. I know I own them, I know they're sitting on my 360 HDD, but I've moved on to other stuff.

The first time that a digital game got pulled from a service, I was pissed off. Nowadays I don't have a clue how much of my digital content is inaccessible to me (games, modes, DLC etc..) and I'm not entirely sure I even care. They've made games disposable and so I'm treating them as such (including buying far, far fewer games at full price). Not even my Steam library is sacred thanks to GFWL.

I've thought about this a lot and I'm not happy with how laissez-faire my attitude is on the subject. I'm not about to maintain a register and write a strong letter every time a piece of my content is pulled however.

I think my 'line' might have something to do with whether or not games are locked to a specific piece of hardware. I care about my PC / PS1 / PSP / iOS games because they can be played on a multitude of devices. I don't care so much about my XBLA stuff because I don't want to have a 360 hooked up until the end of time. If the XBone had let me access all my XBLA stuff, I'd probably own one. The PS4 occupies some weird halfway house where I can't access a ton of PSN games, but I'm also given some free games that I purchased on the PS3.

I really don't know how I ultimately feel about all this.

Edit: I guess another thing at the back of my mind is the fact that if this stuff becomes inaccessible, people will find ways of restoring it. I'd have no moral qualms about reclaiming items I had legitimately paid for.
 
Good points there. From 2011 to 2013 I've gone digital also, but in the past months I only bought physical games, mainly because those same fears you are having.

And the recent delisting of the Marvel games from the stores made me even more paranoid of the digital stores...

, I can't help but think there's gonna be that day where the switch is flipped, and you can't even log in anymore.

Well, at least on PS3, you will always be able to play the games even if logged off, as long as they exist in your hard drive. If the games are deleted, there will be no way to redownload them, though.
 
Back up data. Problem solved. Sure beats an eternity of maintenance and storage.

How exactly do you backup console games? Whenever you swap a hard drive on ps3 or ps4, it basically has to reformat the system. As far as I know, you can't store games on an external hard drive for PS3, or Xbox 360 (doesnt 360 have a 16gb flash drive limit?)
 
Back up data. Problem solved. Sure beats an eternity of maintenance and storage.

You can't back up everything and you're still tied to the authorized console. Back up data is not portable so it's got limited use. Physical games will always beat out digital when it comes to having access in the long term.
 
well fucking duh.

I've been thinking of this alot too, and although part of the same potential problem, I trust steam more so I've got almost all my digital purchases of late through there.

Yeah, steam for some reason is a non-issue for me in my mind. Maybe because I feel like Valve has done wonders to help alleviate those doubts. They are a business making money like any other, but unlike others (especially console manufacturers), you can tell they legitimately appreciate their consumers, and know that making them happy keeps them coming back.

I am sometimes surprised so many of us gamers have been willing to trust microsoft with anything after a lot of the bull shit they have pulled over the years.
 
This worries me and my 60+ games (including Ambassador Program titles) on my 3DS. I've had a repair done on my old 3DS and I lost all my data, I can't afford to lose my games!
 
Which is something I started considering recently...I was going over my list of games I've gotten digitally, and man it's such a long list...but I'm really thinking about it.

Just to give you guys an idea, these are some of the games I put on my list for each system that I knew I didn't want to lose, and was thinking of buying physically:



This isn't everything I own on each of those platforms, but like I said, I was going over my games and making a list of just the ones I was considering rebuying =/

Don't do that. Just play what you have and don't stress about it. Nothing lasts forever. As far as the Publishers see it we have NEVER owned our games. Just the rights to play them.
 
Yeah, steam for some reason is a non-issue for me in my mind. Maybe because I feel like Valve has done wonders to help alleviate those doubts. They are a business making money like any other, but unlike others (especially console manufacturers), you can tell they legitimately appreciate their consumers, and know that making them happy keeps them coming back.

I am sometimes surprised so many of us gamers have been willing to trust microsoft with anything after a lot of the bull shit they have pulled over the years.

Steam to me is a bit less of an issue due to the open nature of PCs. It's easy to make back ups that are portable to any PC and in the worst case scenario, I feel safe knowing that if things were to shut down, it'll be easy to find a crack to access my content. The only catch is that my Steam library has grown so big now, it's getting harder to store the entire library.
 
WTF? of course it is. I suppose PC gamers wouldn't care if steam shut down and didnt let the games go drm free before then huh?

this really doesn't bother me, because I can easily morally justify downloading a cracked copy at that point. I give exactly 0 fucks about the 'actual legality' when I purchased a copy and someone took it away.

Also games are almost always something you don't continually go back to and if they are some of the ones that remain that popular they're probably subscription model these days anyway. I generally think in terms of 'x dollars for x hours of fun' regards to games. If I 'lost' access to something I'd played for 40 hours and it cost me 10 bucks originally, I'd have a hard time crying about it. I'd still complain cause it's technically mine but I'd probably just officially request whatever it was then download it immediately via other means if my best effort wasn't responded to.
 
I think that, going forwards, servers getting shut down etc will become less and less of a thing. Although right now I know some people have bandwidth caps, in the medium term future you have to assume that the world will just be connected - with so many devices all connecting and syncing and downloading, the idea of "turning off" servers will, I think, become a quaint bit of internet history. The power and value of instance-based services like Azure and EC2 and the like mean that companies (Sony, MS etc) can effectively just have servers running when they need them, they can ramp them up when demand goes up and have them automatically fall off when demand goes down; Until recently, "turning off" a games servers was a big deal because it seems like it's all or nothing - they either go off, or they have lots of expensive servers sitting there doing naught. But it really doesn't have to be like that. Obviously this'll still cost them, but I think that there's a virtue (that'll manifest itself in increased sales) in giving people the peace of mind that the scenario outlined in this thread won't happen, and thus people will be far more inclined towards digital purchases.

The future is beautiful, people!
 
I know I wouldn't.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who treats games as consumables. Would you really be upset if the food from your fridge disappeared?

Personally, for me, once a gen is over, I'm done with those games. I never feel the need to replay a game because there's always a great game which I haven't played. Sure, there are games which I've bought multiple times like the PS1/PS2 FF games or some of the PS2 HD games but it's not the end of the world if I don't get to replay them.

I feel exactly the same way. It's different for STEAM, because it's a continuous platform but on consoles, I just move on to the next.

I had several game purchases and DLC purchases on my 360. Gladly sold off the console and accepted the fact that I'll never touch that stuff again. I'm sure I will never have the urge to. Got my moneys worth out of it and on to the next.
 
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