Toonami |Feb14| We Kick Ass for the LORD!

Status
Not open for further replies.
What about Kickheart was likeable? The characters sucked, the story sucked, the art sucked, the animation sucked, the comedy sucked, the voice work sucks, the whole thing just sucks.

Does it have moe blobs or tentacle rape or incest? No, but I don't think any of those things have to be inherently bad its in the execution. I can also see how people could enjoy those things. I see nothing in Kickheart that was enjoyable at all, it's truly the perfect storm of bad bad bad bad bad

My response would be akin to:

I think you're looking too much into. The thing was so damn short that no one should have any strong opinions for or against it.

Like there wasn't even enough of it to really hate. It came and went in a blink of an eye. Even if it were objectively bad, it would be akin to "stubbing your toe" on the scale of shitty anime not the "worst thing Toonami has ever aired and I must exclaim my hatred for it frequently and loudly".

Also I still remain unconvinced that you've separated your subjective dislike for aspects of it versus its objective quality. As per Secret Fawful's post goes into, the animation DOESN'T suck, you just don't like the style. (Also his dislike of Brotherhood, a very controversial opinion I strongly disagree with, doesn't negate anything he has to say about Kick-Heart)

Even GXP and SAO held more entertainment value for me then Kickheart, it is truly the worst thing I've ever seen on Toonami old or new. KSK was also pretty bad, but that wasn't a crowd funded animation by a studio I respect. It seemed like a generic AS cartoon that I'd have given no fucks about otherwise.

I think preferring SAO or GXP because "they entertain me in how overwhelmingly stupid they are" isn't really a controversial opinion but that doesn't mean Kick-Heart deserves so much vitriol from you.

I want to be clear that I respect your opinion to dislike Kick-Heart. I'm not beefing you for that at all. I just fail to understand logically why you hate it SO MUCH and I'm not sure you've explained yourself well other than "it sucks".

I should annoy demarco to get little witch academia on toonami, that was also done by a small team with a limited budget and everybody loves it because of how much it delivers.

Needs a dub first but yes I'd love LWA on Toonami.

Been meaning to watch that, heard it's pretty good

It's only like a half hour long, get on that. I think its still on Youtube?

This speaks lengths on your fundamental misunderstanding of how an animation should feel or look like. It also reinforces the unfortunate reality that most fans of anime aren't fans of animation.

Sad but true (not a knock on you Bass, just a general statement/sentiment I agree with)
 

Such a classic...
despite happening like 7 months ago

KickHeart gets more hate than it deserves. I thought it was pretty interesting. King Star King on the other hand made me cringe far more than was healthy for my face.

Agreed full on. KickHeart did what it set out to do, and did it entertainingly enough. It wasn't designed to be a masterpiece of animation, it was designed to be a short story told through animation.

King Star King... I thought I had wiped that from my mind. Not well enough, I suppose.
 
This speaks lengths on your fundamental misunderstanding of how an animation should feel or look like. It also reinforces the unfortunate reality that most fans of anime aren't fans of animation.

Okay and what does that have to do with my comment that I'm not going to judge Kickheart based upon it's budget/team size? I agree that a lot of anime has bad animation and thanks to many of the series/ovas/movies that people on GAF have introduced me to I have a greater appreciation for animation then I did a few years ago. If me disliking the way KH looks and is animated means that I'm "not a fan of animation" then guilty as charged I guess.
 
Anime usually has fucking terrible animation (with the exceptions being fleeting and very very noticeable), so it's not like that's a surprise.
It's just like anything else. Good works are out there among the rabble, but it doesn't take long to find. I wouldn't push that as an excuse.
 
What you should know about japanese animation is that they get shit amount of money to animate things, which causes them to rely on a technique called sakuga which personally im a fan of, to give a example, remember the episodes of team 7 in the forest in naruto? and how when oroochimaru came the animation was really really shit to the point that even the character facial features were way off, and then the next episode had a really cinematic, fast paced, fluidly animated fight scene between sasuke and oroochimaru? that is basically sakuga, they try to save on money in order to use it in places they feel need it.

compared to American animation where they can be given millions of dollars to animate stuff.
 
What you should know about japanese animation is that they get shit amount of money to animate things, which causes them to rely on a technique called sakuga which personally im a fan of, to give a example, remember the episodes of team 7 in the forest in naruto? and how when oroochimaru came the animation was really really shit to the point that even the character facial features were way off, and then the next episode had a really cinematic, fast paced, fluidly animated fight scene between sasuke and oroochimaru? that is basically sakuga, they try to save on money in order to use it in places they feel need it.

compared to American animation where they can be given millions of dollars to animate stuff.

I get this, it sucks and I wish Japanese anime could get bigger budgets because some of my favorite series look like complete poop a lot of the time. I'll admit I feel the story of a show is more important then it's animation, but I can still appreciate and prefer good animation over lazy animation.
 
What you should know about japanese animation is that they get shit amount of money to animate things, which causes them to rely on a technique called sakuga which personally im a fan of, to give a example, remember the episodes of team 7 in the forest in naruto? and how when oroochimaru came the animation was really really shit to the point that even the character facial features were way off, and then the next episode had a really cinematic, fast paced, fluidly animated fight scene between sasuke and oroochimaru? that is basically sakuga, they try to save on money in order to use it in places they feel need it.

compared to American animation where they can be given millions of dollars to animate stuff.

Kyoto Animation and (recently) SHAFT are exceptions to the rule. :P
 
Kyoto Animation and (recently) SHAFT are exceptions to the rule. :P

There is one episode of bakemonogatari(SHAFT) I think it was episode 6 where they literally straight just ran out of money and time and they had a (sorta) fight scene that was literally slideshows of it.
 
It's just like anything else. Good works are out there among the rabble, but it doesn't take long to find. I wouldn't push that as an excuse.

Eh, not really. The medium of television anime especially is actually BASED ON principles of limited animation. It's actually intrinsic to the medium itself, something more or less standardized by Tezuka back in the day. That you have artists that sometime elevate their game or mete our budgets in such a way that they can occasionally have flourishes of higher quality animation doesn't change the fact that the foundation of the industry is poor/mediocre animation.
 
I think Ufotable should definitely be a studio mentioned when talking about strong animation and high level production values
Fate/Zero gotdamn O_O
as should Studio BONES.
 
Should Kickheart receive less criticism because it had a budget of 200k? Because it was only made by 4 people? I don't care what the story behind the creation of the anime is, only what the final product is.
That's a limited way to view art. You're limiting yourself on that one. Japanese animation is literally an industry where artists use anime to SHOWCASE THEIR ANIMATION by getting to animate whole scenes and episodes. It's one thing to separate the artist from the art, but it's another to ignore the artist entirely. Anime wasn't made for that. That's not why entire videos exist with nothing but each animator's work on various shows. People want to see what the individual artist can do, and some stuff is made for that. And yes, there are animators who have done better stuff.

And your inability to see the brilliance that is Brotherhood was laughable, your entire argument comes down to "my nostalgia for FMA 03 is on so tight I can't view anything else with objectivity". As someone who experienced both FMA manga, 03 anime, and brotherhood in the past year for the first time the few things 03 does better then the manga/brotherhood I can count on one hand. FMA 03 is still good, but the ending is a complete train wreck and proves that Bones can't write with other people's material. The film CoS was also a massive middle finger to fans of FMA 03 I can't get how people defend it. Being dark just to be dark isn't good writing, it's cheap emotional appeal the same way SAO does.

Edit: Also I'm done derailing this thread with my hate of Kickheart, it's over and I will let my post speak for themselves along with that 0 score it got in the AotY thread. I'm also not in the mood to get into a round and round match about if FMA 03 or Brotherhood is better (it's brotherhood) because it isn't worth the effort.

Nu7.gif


The brilliance of Brotherhood is the brilliance of a rushed, chopped up adaption of a great manga. I'm not retreading my points since you already read them, and literally didn't bother to TRY to understand them beyond "this guy has the nostalgia goggles" or whatever easy, angry reasoning you could use to dismiss them. Maybe I made a bad case. I dunno. Sometimes I get tired of posting dozens of screenshots where I point out individual bits of the art and the quality and consistency of it every time I want to debate about it.

Your entire argument comes down to "my nostalgia for FMA 03 is on so tight I can't view anything else with objectivity".

Well, that's one way to put "I like 03 more". I'm not objective? I'M NOT OBJECTIVE? I always give strong examples of every individual thing I find good and bad about a thing. I point out things like style, line work, color, cinematography, facial consistency, etc. I ALWAYS PROVIDE STRONG, IN-DEPTH EXAMPLES. My post above proves that. I don't just talk out of my ass. I put effort into my arguments. I put effort into understanding why I like or dislike something. Yet, I am not objective. What do I need to do, provide some fucking graphs? Do you want a powerpoint presentation? I can whip one up. I can write and film a documentary for you. It might take me a few years, but I can get back to you with proof of my objectivity in coming to my views. It took me two views of the series to realize I had a problem with it!

Honestly, it seems like you and I are coming from two opposite views in terms of what matters. I care about animation. You care about story. To you, Kick-Heart is offensively simple and lacking in any substance. To me, it's a neat showcase of some guys' art. To you, Brotherhood is a way more interesting, true to the source adaption. To me, Brotherhood is ugly backgrounds, weird, inconsistent facial animation, flat colors, and kind of typical direction. And Hulk Cornello. WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT. That's as bad as Scar making a magic alchemy globe out of printed words in the 03 version! See, I can find things to criticize about it too. It's kind of weird that the direction was so flat to me, because I've done my research, and a good chunk of the animation team on Brotherhood were ON THE 03 VERSION! It just....I don't even.
 
SHAFT is its own mini-meme for a reason. Those guys put out some subpar stuff.

They also put out some really great stuff aswell, in the same series I pointed out it has some great moments of animation thats only gotten better in the monogatari series.
 
SHAFT is also notorious for having multiple rushed TV episodes with missing or unfinished animation that's fixed for the DVD release.
 
Okay and what does that have to do with my comment that I'm not going to judge Kickheart based upon it's budget/team size? I agree that a lot of anime has bad animation and thanks to many of the series/ovas/movies that people on GAF have introduced me to I have a greater appreciation for animation then I did a few years ago. If me disliking the way KH looks and is animated means that I'm "not a fan of animation" then guilty as charged I guess.
It doesn't?

I think it's somewhat repugnant that someone would make it their thing to vehemently go after a unique, passion project brought together by a small group of talented animators, though. And on a basis that's so objectively backwards! Haha.

Have you seen Yuasa's other works, Bass? It seems like a love it or hate thing with a lot of people.

Eh, not really. The medium of television anime especially is actually BASED ON principles of limited animation. It's actually intrinsic to the medium itself, something more or less standardized by Tezuka back in the day. That you have artists that sometime elevate their game or mete our budgets in such a way that they can occasionally have flourishes of higher quality animation doesn't change the fact that the foundation of the industry is poor/mediocre animation.
You make a good point, but it's not as if there isn't a wealth of OVAs and movies (and the occasional TV series) that have pushed the envelope of the entire medium. I understand what you're saying, but to declare that fans of anime shouldn't be fans of animation because the status quo for a television series is below average is a bad excuse. In-fact, what's gotten me more interested in animation in recent years is wanting to know why, in the middle of a somewhat uninspired episode of a series, a certain scene suddenly looks incredible. I think the majority of what Hollywood puts out is shit, but it doesn't stop me from seeking out great films and learning about them, you know?
 
It doesn't?

I think it's somewhat repugnant that someone would make it their thing to vehemently go after a unique, passion project brought together by a small group of talented animators, though. And on a basis that's so objectively backwards! Haha.

Have you seen Yuasa's other works, Bass? It seems like a love it or hate thing with a lot of people.

What is a list of his other works? As I've said I don't usually follow stuff like that I pick it up from anime gaf and people here
 
What is a list of his other works? As I've said I don't usually follow stuff like that I pick it up from anime gaf and people here

The Tatami Galaxy
Kemonozume
Kaiba
Mind Game

Tatami Galaxy is a somewhat odd plot, but it comes together into a cohesive sci-fi story that makes sense in the end, and is his most accessible anime. It's only tough to follow because characters talk fast. REALLY FAST. Kemonozume has to do with martial arts, romance, and monsters. It's fucked up. Mind Game is patchy and wild and you're SO likely to hate it. Haven't yet seen Kaiba.
 
The Tatami Galaxy
Kemonozume
Kaiba
Mind Game

Tatami Galaxy is a somewhat odd plot, but it comes together into a cohesive sci-fi story that makes sense in the end, and is his most accessible anime. It's only tough to follow because characters talk fast. REALLY FAST. Kemonozume has to do with martial arts, romance, and monsters. It's fucked up. Mind Game is patchy and wild and you're SO likely to hate it. Haven't yet seen Kaiba.


Yeah i've never seen any of those lol
 
The Tatami Galaxy
Kemonozume
Kaiba
Mind Game

Tatami Galaxy is a somewhat odd plot, but it comes together into a cohesive sci-fi story that makes sense in the end, and is his most accessible anime. It's only tough to follow because characters talk fast. REALLY FAST. Kemonozume has to do with martial arts, romance, and monsters. It's fucked up. Mind Game is patchy and wild and you're SO likely to hate it. Haven't yet seen Kaiba.

I wish I could get BDs for all of Yuasa's stuff. Especially Kaiba. It's so fucking good.
 
"A Town of Outlaws, the Shadow of the Fuma Clan"



Show opens with Jiraiya going over the plan on what is clearly a map of whore houses and drinking holes. Sakura and Naruto complain that he's doing another kind of research but Jiraiya insists that such places are the best places to find info on a lowlife like Orochimaru. He starts skipping away while the two genin hang their heads.

UYnFJM0l.jpg


Cut to the trio making their way to what is clearly Ninja New Orleans circa 1820. Drunk dudes getting jacked in the jaw, thrown through windows, a general hive of scum and villainy. Toad Hermit staring at a sign for a hostess bar. In the swerve of all swerves he gives them money to get food and to lie low on the edge of town. He's going to sacrifice himself...to debauchery! He walks away with a dumb grin on his face.

wNRv8Yvl.jpg


Naruto and Sakura head to the edge of town. Sakura worries that The Sauce has moved on from the Sound territory but Naruto wants to investigate. Naruto pledges to find him no matter what.

Oh shit its the character of the day! She looks in trouble (it's obviously a girl Naruto, no amount of saying he will fool me) and she's being ambushed by thugs! Naruto picks her up while Sakura heads for the trees!

Naruto is CUT IN HALF!

NklfzkGl.jpg


Sakura and character of the day are dead too! Show over! Nope, triple substitution jutsu as a pile of logs hits the road. One of the random thugs is voiced by Gaara, that turn coat! He's the normal one while another guy is doing a low rent spiderman and the other guy is half submerged in the dirt. General bad guy talk hinting at Lord Orochimaru.

Cut to Jiraiya with two beautiful young Hostesses!

aw81PgVl.jpg


Supple skin of a young lady indeed.

He does ask about the Sound Village though, these two know nothing. This good looking blonde does as she leads him into an obvious trap! Bandits straight out of Fire Emblem! (One with Kakashi's voice, another one has Spike's voice. It...does not go well for the bandits.

They used to be Shinobi! Talk no Jutsu! Leader cuts his own heel promo while J-man powers up a Rasengan with predictable results. The boss gives up and asks for his name. Jiraiya does his Kabuki thing! Boss is LEGIT SHOOK. Everyone bows!

They are the Fuma. They hate the Sound because Orochimaru drove them out.

IQ51RWKl.jpg


Cut to the kids with the character of the day in the temple on the outskirts. Sakura pretending to be a medical ninja. She's wounded on the shoulder! Sakura throws Naruto out! He's gonna peek until Sakura punches him through the door! Sakrua clearly knows she's a girl/sort of hits on her. Disrobing, oinment smeared, etc, etc. Naruto gets invited back in, but sees some spider webs.

C3MdU7W.gif


Naurto clearly did not know she was a girl even though he accidentally copped a feel saving her.

3V1BAXEl.jpg


She's Sasame Fuma! Cut to more spider webs. Sasame is clearly voiced by Rukia! She gives the rundown. Rice Paddies is a small country devastated by infighting, Orochimaru came in offering a real Shinobi village to unite the people. Kimmimaru cameo looking for volunteers! Her cousin joined up never to return!

Naruto thinks he's dead. Sakura doesn't want to shock the poor young lady so she bowbeats Naruto into being more optimistic. Girl starts crying, cutting the classic Sakura promo about being weak but wanting to do something. Now they are going to save the cousin no matter what!

Oh look EIGHT BILLION SPIDERS. Webs everywhere.

3GYN8eYl.jpg


Not just any spiders, WIND SPIDERS. OOOH SCARY. Where is he coming from? Naruto makes some clones to investagate! Gaara ninja KNOWS they are Shadow Clones. Underground guy who is apparently an antlion cuts...a creepy poem before sucking up Naruto!


NEXT EPISODE: "Pure Betrayal, and a Fleeting Plea!"
 
Next day I'm feeling better and have time (so probably Thursday or Friday) I'll do Kakashi mask episode as part of a double feature since I promised it as a test run. Couldn't find the set when I was looking but I happened to figure out where I put that one today after waking up from my Toonami ordeal.

Surprisingly no crazy toonami related fever dreams.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom