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[Polygon] Final Fantasy 7 Remake director says porting to ‘lower-end’ Switch 2 is a challenge (Many publishers struggling to get games to run well)

LordOcidax said:
Some players have turned off RT in PC and the game looks like shit… The game relies on RT to work properly. Like i said before, it needs a ton of work to look good without RT. Also i am pretty sure that real devs knows more than some random guys in a gaming forum about game development… Saying that is kinda laughable the use of fast storage is not smart.
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their engine is probably following modern conventions. meaning they have an editor that shows their lighting in realtime.

if their engine editor doesn't allow them to bake the lighting that they set up, they need to fucking fix that... that would be laughable.

and of course the game looks bad if you turn off RT in its current state. that has nothing to do with the fact that they can probably bake the lighting with a few clicks.


and yes it is laughable that it needs fast storage to work.
the game's worlds (from what I have seen) are far from complex or hyper detailed.
we have seen higher complexity and detail in last gen games, that ran on fucking laptop grade HDDs and the slowest CPU cores known to man.
it also doesn't have super fast vehicles. the speeder bike you can cruise around on is slower than most cars in Forza Horizon 4.

fast storage and RT are currently mostly used as shortcuts for proper optimisation, not as actual improvements to visuals or mechanics.
only a handful of games actually use raytracing and the fast storage speeds for anything tangible that was impossible on PS4
 
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kevboard said:
their engine is probably following modern conventions. meaning they have an editor that shows their lighting in realtime.

if their engine editor doesn't allow them to bake the lighting that they set up, they need to fucking fix that... that would be laughable.

and of course the game looks bad if you turn of RT in its current state. that has nothing to do with the fact that they can probably bake the lighting with a few clicks.


and yes it is laughable that it needs fast storage to work.
the game's worlds (from what I have seen) are far from complex or hyper detailed.
we have seen higher complexity and detail in last gen games, that ran on fucking laptop grade HDDs.
it also doesn't have super fast vehicles. the speeder bike you can cruise around on is slower than most cars in Forza Horizon 4.

fast storage and RT are currently mostly used as shortcuts for proper optimisation, not as actual improvements to visuals or mechanics.
only a handful of games actually use raytracing and the fast storage speeds for anything tangible that was impossible on PS4
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I don't know if you have experience in game development but it looks like not, because is not that simple at all. The main reason on why devs prefer the use of RT while having worse results in some cases compared to old methods, especially in less powerful hardware like consoles, is because using all methods takes a lot resources, time and talent.
 
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LordOcidax said:
I don't know if you have experience in game development but it looks like not, because is not that simple at all. The main reason on why devs prefer the use of RT while having worse results in some cases compared to old methods especially in less powerful hardware like consoles, is because using all methods takes a lot resources, time and talent.
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I have no insights on internal proprietary engines of course, but I know how easy it is to bake lighting in UE5.

I simply assume (and hope) that the tools used by AAA devs that are backed by massive publishers have similar tools in place.


and by the way, you literally said the same thing there as I did, you just said it in a less judgemental way.
it's easier, therefore proper optimisation is skipped. that's also why Outlaws needs an SSD to work. it's entirely unremarkable in every single way, but needs fast storage to function. that's a shortcut that skips proper optimisation.
 
Oh you're struggling? Well too bad! Should've got behind the Switch immediately. But you didn't and now you have to do extra work because you need Nintendo after all.
 
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Switch 2 will be the most benefitted if PS6 is delayed.

It struggles now to do PS5 ports, but main problem was always going to be what happens when PS6/Magnus drops.
 
kevboard said:
the game's worlds (from what I have seen) are far from complex or hyper detailed.
we have seen higher complexity and detail in last gen games
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You must be joking. Have you played the thing? Game is huge in terms of details in towns. Kalm is very detailed while you walk in and out of buildings unrestricted

 
kevboard said:
I have no insights on internal proprietary engines of course, but I know how easy it is to bake lighting in UE5.

I simply assume (and hope) that the tools used by AAA devs that are backed by massive publishers have similar tools in place.


and by the way, you literally said the same thing there as I did, you just said it in a less judgemental way.
it's easier, therefore proper optimisation is skipped. that's also why Outlaws needs an SSD to work. it's entirely unremarkable in every single way, but needs fast storage to function. that's a shortcut that skips proper optimisation.
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Every lighting probe needs to be placed manually and tested… On every single room in an open world game. Is a rework and is not simple. And the reflections is another whole story.
 
Emmy Ator Best said:
Oh you're struggling? Well too bad! Should've got behind the Switch immediately. But you didn't and now you have to do extra work because you need Nintendo after all.
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The only way they would have probably not struggled with Switch is if it was exclusive to Switch. Which wasn't gonna happen. I'll be damned if we got FF7 looking like Vaseline smeared Xenoblade Chronicles. lol
 
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LordOcidax said:
Every lighting probe needs to be placed manually and tested… On every single room in an open world game. Is a rework and is not simple. And the reflections is another whole story.
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they already placed the lights... that's how their RT works. again, in UE5 for example, you could literally take what is set up for their current RT solution, and bake the results.
I am simply assuming (and hoping) that their engine has similar features.

the biggest issue would be the file size in that case.

reflections are a none issue because they already have SSR in there, and the Series S version is already so badly optimised that it uses only SSR for some pretty big reflective surfaces lol.
and while SSR is ugly and I hate it with with every fiber of my being, it's a very easy drop-in replacement for RT reflections... and evidently they can just do that through a simple materials setting (as seen on Series S)
 
The fun thing about these threads is that I knew exactly who would be outraged and who would be chuckling.

Never change, GAF.
 
kevboard said:
they already placed the lights... that's how their RT works. again, in UE5 for example, you could literally take what is set up for their current RT solution, and bake the results.
I am simply assuming (and hoping) that their engine has similar features.

the biggest issue would be the file size in that case.

reflections are a none issue because they already have SSR in there, and the Series S version is already so badly optimised that it uses only SSR for some pretty big reflective surfaces lol.
and while SSR is ugly and I hate it with with every fiber of my being, it's a very easy drop-in replacement for RT reflections... and evidently they can just do that through a simple materials setting (as seen on Series S)
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No, they don't… Is a mix, and there's plenty of places that 100% relies on RT.

 
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Do people buy a Switch to play these 10 year old games on it? I feel like most gamers have already purchased the game years ago when it was released on all the other systems and it looked an ran better back then as well. Are there that many who have not played it or like to double/triple dip?
 
LordOcidax said:
Some people just can't accept the fact that the Switch 2 can run games that the PS4 can't, when they predicted a console less powerful than the PS4. Sad that my crow serving thread was locked.
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Pretty sure it's somewhere between PS4 Pro and the Series S.
 
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LordOcidax said:
Some people just can't accept the fact that the Switch 2 can run games that the PS4 can't, when they predicted a console less powerful than the PS4. Sad that my crow serving thread was locked.
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You could say that for any console a game doesn't come out, it mean it can't run on the console. its pretty much BS with someone trying to hype up their consoles. ps4 and switch 2 are very similar power wise, no reason a game can run on switch 2 and not run on ps4, when we had switch 1 running ps4 games and switch 2 running ps5 games. everyone assumed the same thing for jedi survivor and hogwarts it can't run on ps4 and it ran just fine when the ports came out.
 
subzero83 said:
You could say that for any console a game doesn't come out, it mean it can't run on the console. its pretty much BS with someone trying to hype up their consoles. ps4 and switch 2 are very similar power wise, no reason a game can run on switch 2 and not run on ps4, when we had switch 1 running ps4 games and switch 2 running ps5 games. everyone assumed the same thing for jedi survivor and hogwarts it can't run on ps4 and it ran just fine when the ports came out.
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Read the whole conversation with kevboard kevboard please.

Fake edit: Games relying on fast storage and RT can't not run on PS4 without a proper rework… Is a technical fact. Raw power is not everything.
 
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LordOcidax said:
Read the whole conversation with kevboard kevboard please.
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I have read, a lot of assumptions. you assume that star wars would had a ps4 port if it had back up or it was simple but you ignore that other games have skipped ps4 like MK0, DQ remake, and sparkling 0 and came out on switch 1. so developers are not gonna do extra work for a 2013 console that hardly moves enough units these days. not to mention we have game that do RT much better and have a back up, so why would it be that difficult to add a back up solution like for example AC shadows which has much better RTGI on consoles, added a back just for 60fps its not that hard when every developer is basically doing it. even RE9 supposedly has RT off mode. now lets pretend SW out laws was a easy port it took a year and had most of the assets changed and lighting has many changes,
 
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subzero83 said:
I have read, a lot of assumptions. you assume that star wars would had a ps4 port if it had back up or it was simple but you ignore that other games have skipped ps4 like MK0, DQ remake, and sparkling 0 and came out on switch 1. so developers are not gonna do extra work for a 2013 console that hardly moves enough units these days. not to mention we have game that do RT much better and have a back up, so why would it be that difficult to add a back up solution like for example AC shadows which has much better RTGI on consoles, added a back just for 60fps its not that hard when every developer is basically doing it. even RE9 supposedly has RT off mode.
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AC: Shadows was made from the beginning with a Baked lighting in place, Star Wars Outlaws no. Same for the fast storage to stream assets… Without a complete rework is not going to work. Is far more easy to made a Switch 2 port from a Ps5 game than a PS4 Pro port, doesn't matter the raw power. But of course, devs can make DOOM run on an abacus, if that what you mean 🤷‍♂️.
 
LordOcidax said:
AC: Shadows was made from the beginning with a Baked lighting in place, Star Wars Outlaws no. Same for the fast storage to stream assets… Without a complete rework is not going to work. Is far more easy to made a Switch 2 port from a Ps5 game than a PS4 Pro port, doesn't matter the raw power. But of course, devs can make DOOM run on an abacus, if that what you mean 🤷‍♂️.
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I really don't agree with that and it will depend on the game. hogwarts was a ps5 port and looks and runs better on pro. if you talking about RT it depends some games might just make a back up for switch 2 version if its succesful enough.
 
bender said:
Unlike the Switch 2, Polygon and Square Enix are not a beast.
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These threads always make me laugh, of course many will suggest it's simply discussing the differences with different ports to various consoles etc. But it's strange it never happens the other way, where PS5/Pro and Series X/S never get compared to the ultra high spec PC versions of these games. When in reality it's all the same thing, and basically different versions of the same games.

I think if you understand why that is it will tell you more than any of these very insincere agenda driven comparison threads lol.. ;)
 
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Baemono said:
I mean both games should've been delayed on their original platfoms as well. I recall the best way to play Elden Ring was to run the PS4 version on PS5.
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LordCBH said:
To be fair, Elden Ring runs like trash on almost everything.
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The Switch 2 version of Elden Ring performs worse than the base PS4 version, at least in handheld mode anyway.

IGN called it a "disaster" when played in handheld mode.

I'm not sure how much of this is down to the developer vs the hardware because that Cyberpunk port is impressive, but it's clear some devs are having issues.
 
IDKFA said:
The Switch 2 version of Elden Ring performs worse than the base PS4 version, at least in handheld mode anyway.

IGN called it a "disaster" when played in handheld mode.

I'm not sure how much of this is down to the developer vs the hardware because that Cyberpunk port is impressive, but it's clear some devs are having issues.
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That was during Gamescom, and then some played another build one month after which was said to run better. And then it got delayed
 
Hector Hall said:
Switch 2 will be the most benefitted if PS6 is delayed.

It struggles now to do PS5 ports, but main problem was always going to be what happens when PS6/Magnus drops.
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The same as when the PS5/Pro dropped during the original Switch's lifecycle. You got developers like panic button that could work miracles with the hardware. I would suggest that the Nvidia DLSS will make it easier this time. It's more down to a developers skill than anything else.
 
IDKFA said:
The Switch 2 version of Elden Ring performs worse than the base PS4 version, at least in handheld mode anyway.

IGN called it a "disaster" when played in handheld mode.

I'm not sure how much of this is down to the developer vs the hardware because that Cyberpunk port is impressive, but it's clear some devs are having issues.
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I also remember the same being said about Star Wars Outlaws lol..
 
Who plays 3rd party games on Nintendo systems anyway? The releases are too inconsistent and its usually the platform with the worst most downgraded version. I guess portability is the pull or having no other choice because switch is the only system owned.
 
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Mozza said:
These threads always make me laugh, of course many will suggest it's simply discussing the differences with different ports to various consoles etc. But it's strange it never happens the other way, where PS5/Pro and Series X/S never get compared to the ultra high spec PC versions of these games. When in reality it's all the same thing, and basically different versions of the same games.

I think if you understand why that is it will tell you more than any of these very insincere agenda driven comparison threads lol.. ;)
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It's a dumb comparison that's why. ps5 came out 5 years ago its 399$-449$. For the past 3 months comparing to the switch 2 is fair since its the same price a closed platform. we are also getting a handheld that's gonna better then ps5 or on par in 2 years. Really had nintendo went with a 5nm and a bigger battery this thing would have been future proof.
 
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TheGodfather07 said:
Who plays 3rd party games on Nintendo systems anyway? The releases are too inconsistent and its usually the platform with the worst most downgraded version. I guess portability is the pull or having no other choice because switch is the only system owned.
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Square's RPGs? (Except for Final Fantasy of course)
 
Not
subzero83 said:
It's a dumb comparison that's why. ps5 came out 5 years ago its 399$-449$ for the past 3 months comparing to the switch 2 is fair since its the same price a closed platform. we are also getting a handheld that's gonna better then ps5 or on par in 2 years. Really had nintendo went with a 5nm and a bigger battery this thing would have been future proof.
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It's dumb to compare a console the size of a small tablet with a very low power consumption to the PS5/Pro.... But yet we are still here again and again lol.
 
TheGodfather07 said:
Who plays 3rd party games on Nintendo systems anyway? The releases are too inconsistent and its usually the platform with the worst most downgraded version. I guess portability is the pull or having no other choice because switch is the only system owned.
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Holy shit. Guys, I think he's on to something.

It's been said and proven already with Switch 1. People are fine with the fidelity hit to have the game portably.
 
Mozza said:
Not

It's dumb to compare a console the size of a small tablet with a very low power consumption to the PS5/Pro.... But yet we are still here again and again lol.
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Not really cause the tech is there with AI upscaling to give you not so much of down graded experience. The ps6 handheld is gonna match ps5 cause of these advancements,and there will be comparisons to ps5 and even ps5 pro. This is best looking switch 2 game right now it looks just like ps4 version other then some textures, you don't think 2025 handheld should be running this atleast 45fps?

 
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