DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So that makes it okay in current year after that was left behind for quite some time now?
Is this some sort of emotional revenge porn type schadenfreude?
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord
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Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey - July 2026
- Thread starter EviLore
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Is this some sort of emotional revenge porn type schadenfreude?
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I said CURRENT.It has happened
as fairly remote examples. John Wayne, of course, was a massive star and probably the only way to get the movie made and Peter Sellars is playing in a comedy, so the 'yellowface' as it were, is part of the joke.
and it does still happen. Here, for example, is Gerard Depardieu in 2010ish playing Alexandre Dumas (on the right), who is pretty obviously a mixed race historical figure
but Gerard is a massive star in France, so probably a big reason why the movie happens AT ALL versus trying to find a fairly specific looking person that looks the part better. And Dumas isn't really known/celebrated based on his ethnicity, I don't think, so no one cares.
again current environment.
I would say we whitewash history another way in never talking about the controversy like MLK being a huge womanizer. Or Mandela being a terrorist.
And we have don't that with many figures throughout history.
SJRB
Gold Member
It has happened
as fairly remote examples. John Wayne, of course, was a massive star and probably the only way to get the movie made and Peter Sellars is playing in a comedy, so the 'yellowface' as it were, is part of the joke.
and it does still happen. Here, for example, is Gerard Depardieu in 2010ish playing Alexandre Dumas (on the right), who is pretty obviously a mixed race historical figure
but Gerard is a massive star in France, so probably a big reason why the movie happens AT ALL versus trying to find a fairly specific looking person that looks the part better. And Dumas isn't really known/celebrated based on his ethnicity, I don't think, so no one cares.
Sir please don't tell me the prime example to make your point is a French movie from 16 years ago where a white person portrays a character who is like 1/4th black.
nkarafo
Member
John Wayne was casted because he is John Wayne.
Peter Sellers was casted because he is Peter Sellers.
Gerard Depardieu was casted because he is Gerard Depardieu.
However:
Adele James was not casted as Cleopatra because she is Adele James, she was casted because she is black.
David Gyasi was not casted as Achilles because he is David Gyasi, he was casted because he is black.
Jodie Turner Smith was not casted as Anna Boleyn because she is Jodie Turner Smith, she was casted because she is black.
And if this Odyssey casting is real, again the actress is being casted for her skin color again.
In one instance they did it for maximum recognition and more butts on seats.
In the other instance they do it for propaganda and to push an agenda such as undermine the western and European culture.
Or they are completely dumb and they do it just for virtue points which i don't believe.
You decide what's worse.
Here's the thing though. I was told by the virtue signalling Hollywood and media that we can learn from past mistakes and "do better". I thought Hollywood is "doing better" now and it's not as racist as it used to be, which they can't stop pointing out 24/7. And yet now they are more racist that they ever were. Go figure.
Peter Sellers was casted because he is Peter Sellers.
Gerard Depardieu was casted because he is Gerard Depardieu.
However:
Adele James was not casted as Cleopatra because she is Adele James, she was casted because she is black.
David Gyasi was not casted as Achilles because he is David Gyasi, he was casted because he is black.
Jodie Turner Smith was not casted as Anna Boleyn because she is Jodie Turner Smith, she was casted because she is black.
And if this Odyssey casting is real, again the actress is being casted for her skin color again.
In one instance they did it for maximum recognition and more butts on seats.
In the other instance they do it for propaganda and to push an agenda such as undermine the western and European culture.
Or they are completely dumb and they do it just for virtue points which i don't believe.
You decide what's worse.
Here's the thing though. I was told by the virtue signalling Hollywood and media that we can learn from past mistakes and "do better". I thought Hollywood is "doing better" now and it's not as racist as it used to be, which they can't stop pointing out 24/7. And yet now they are more racist that they ever were. Go figure.
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The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
I dont care who is playing Helen, just be a fucking good epic movie. We really dont get these kind of stuff in cinemas that often anymore. Tired of indie shit.
It would be HILARIOUS if, after all this bellyaching, all we see of her (as Helen) is a distant wide shot of her waving goodbye to Troy as it burns.
But I suspect there will be a pretty significant scene with Menelaus, Helen, and Telemachus. Lupita would be close in age to Bernthal and would fit in that respect, some 15-20 years after fleeing Sparta. But then again, Agamemnon is cast and we know there is some Trojan Horse stuff, so maybe Helen is confined to that period.
Ah, who knows.
calico
Member
If race swapping isn't a problem now, then it wasn't a problem the other way back then either and we should bring it back. Getting the best actor available is all that matters, or so they say.
It's probably not worth getting too hung up on Helen, because it seems like the whole movie will be full of this. Maybe there is some meta thing going on which justifies it, but more likely it is just the usual cowardice.
It's probably not worth getting too hung up on Helen, because it seems like the whole movie will be full of this. Maybe there is some meta thing going on which justifies it, but more likely it is just the usual cowardice.
nkarafo
Member
Why would screen time even matter? It doesn't make it better or worse depending on how many seconds the character is on screen.
hey now, I'm struggling to think of real life black, or black-adjacent (much less asian) people who are represented by white folks in the movies. Dumas was just an easy one to check, as are the other 2 I mentioned (and really people, if you haven't seen "Murder By Death", go fix that
Biopics are not my favorite films, generally, so I'm not always up on trends for them.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Not many actresses attached to the film who haven't been publicly assigned a part. So, if Helen of Troy is present she could, by process of elimination, be one of these four:
Maybe we should go with Lupita after all.
I want it to be him just for the hilarity
Henry....of Troy.I want it to be him just for the hilarity
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
Not many actresses attached to the film who haven't been publicly assigned a part. So, if Helen of Troy is present she could, by process of elimination, be one of these four:
Maybe we should go with Lupita after all.
Troy of Helen
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
John Wayne was not cast because he's John Wayne. He was cast because they didn't want to put an Asian in a lead role. You forget the history of this country.
Somehow you don't believe that a black person can be hired BECAUSE they're the best person for the job? I'm just going by the tone of your post.
nkarafo
Member
Not for these roles, no.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Lupita is Mexican, I'm mexican let's go with her. Shes better than those 2 men. My 2nd choice is the blondeNot many actresses attached to the film who haven't been publicly assigned a part. So, if Helen of Troy is present she could, by process of elimination, be one of these four:
Maybe we should go with Lupita after all.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Unknown Soldier
Member
For this film, I don't think that's true. I read Brando was the first pick and Wayne WANTED the role, pushed for it once Brando backed out. An asian was NEVER gonna get that role in america in the 1950's, even if they wanted one (which for a high dollar studio film, wasn't gonna happen).
And there was tragic karmic justice anyway since they filmed it on radioactive sites.
You could probably count the number of asian males of an appropriate age working in Hollywood in the 1950's on 1 hand. And is it any less racist to cast a Korean, Japanese, or Filipino actor to play a Mongolian? Sure, WE might see them as "all asian" but do THEY? And it's really only their opinion that matters on this. I suspect the actor picked because he looks "mongolian enough" would say it's ok, because work is work.
Obviously stuff like the Hays Code, which made "mixed race relationships" aka miscengenation, a taboo topic severely limited non-white leading actors (https://asianamericanmusic.org/asia...n-americans-in-the-studio-era-1930s-to-1950s/) as it made it hard to cultivate a fan base for leading roles. But marketing a film without any bankable stars is always a risk, which is why you see so many wedge in a big star to anchor the film (or the marketing of it, at least). But that alone wouldn't totally exclude an asian lead as Genghis. Just look at the cast for the Conqueror, it's ALL non-asian stand-ins except for Richard Loo. The asian talent simply didn't exist in Hollywood at the time and there was virtually no market for it either because the country was 90% white, 10% black, and an almost insignificant amount of anything else. Plus coming off WW2 and the Korean war where a bunch of folks would REFUSE to have any business with an asian product, regardless of origin, and it's pretty easy to understand why Wayne was the lead, even if the result was poor all around.
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Since we are talking about Homer's poem.
Here some British people on a game show confusing him with Homer from the Simpsons.
Here some British people on a game show confusing him with Homer from the Simpsons.
Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
Seen someone on YouTube call her Helen of Detroit and that shit had me dying.
kpopSuperstar
Member
After he did hamilton with blacks, the creator tried to do mlk with whites, but the black folks got angry and shut it down.
Kind of ironic ain't it.
Are you talking about this? LMM wasn't in any way involved though.
https://time.com/4107990/white-actor-martin-luther-king-jr-mountaintop-katori-hall/
The Mountaintop Playwright Criticizes Casting of White Actor as Martin Luther King Jr. in Play
In a Monday essay for The Root, dramatist Katori Hall writes about the anger and disappointment she felt after learning that a Kent State University production of The Mountaintop, a fictionalized account of King's last night before his assassination, double-cast the role of King with both a white and black actor when it ran earlier this year.
The production's director, Michael Oatman, who is black, said in an interview on his university's website, "I truly wanted to explore the issue of racial ownership and authenticity … I wanted to see how the words rang differently or indeed the same, coming from two different actors, with two different racial backgrounds."
Hall, who says she eventually spoke with Oatman, writes that casting a white actor in the role excluded the few opportunities for black experiences to be told in theater. "The casting of a white King is committing yet another erasure of the black body," she writes. "Sure, it might be in the world of pretend, but it is disrespectful nonetheless, especially to a community that has rare moments of witnessing itself, both creatively and literally, in the world."
She also pushed back against the idea that casting a white actor in the role of MLK or a black character was equivalent to casting non-white actors in traditionally white roles. "Having white actors take on roles written specifically for actors of color will never reset the historical record that 75% of roles cast in the American theater are for white men," she wrote.
Advertisement
Hall says she has now added a clause to the play's licensing agreement dictating that both roles be played by black actors unless she has given approval for other casting choices.
*********************************************************************************************************
So it is a little bit of "rules for thee, not for me" but in this case, it was a specific play presumably owned by Hall, so she might(?) have say in how it is put on. So the play director is essentially recasting racially to highlight the events, but the playwright claims ownership of the experience, plus she dredges up the usual "past sins" of white people in marginalizing her people and feels there needs to be 'reparations through casting'. I'm curious just how black the actors playing MLK gotta be, is she using the paper bag test as her criteria? MLK and his message is gonna persist through the ages, I think, and it's only a matter of time before we get something like this
where it's pretty unanimous that the right actor CRUSHED the role even if he needed a little movie magic to better resemble the man. Though he is half Indian though his father, from the same area as Gandhi no less, so is it another example of "close enough with a little help"?
Or is he ok for that but not for this?
Anyway, I'm a proponent of authenticity in story and casting plays a big part in that. Either stop making european derived historical films or start casting them appropriately, I say. Nolan could have just done "the Odyssey, in spaaaaaaaaace" if he wanted to tell the story but have a more diverse casting. Given the apparently minimal amount of actual historical accuracy in sets, props, and armor, I'm kinda surprised he didn't do this.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Netflix making Cleopatra black in a purported documentary and people aggressively defending it was one of the most retarded things I've ever seen
I'm saying a lot here
Moondoggy
Member
Oh thank god, for a second there was worried no one would get the reference.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Ill have to pass my better judgment because I fcking love Nolan movies... if theres one director that will make me endure SOME woke shit is him ... but even then I'll have to wait, if its Netlfix Troy levels of wokeness them Im out.
MaestroMike
Gold Member
Isn't Matt Damon from Boston why is he playing some Ancient Greek hero ??
This movie could've really let some Greek actors shine like in 300 or my big fat Greek wedding instead of some dude from Boston this is a movie based on a story set in Greece not Boston homer would be rolling in his grave if he heard this I'm out
The reality is that there are NO bankable 'greek' actors that could carry this film at the level of funding it is getting.Isn't Matt Damon from Boston why is he playing some Ancient Greek hero ??This movie could've really let some Greek actors shine like in 300 or my big fat Greek wedding instead of some dude from Boston this is a movie based on a story set in Greece not Boston homer would be rolling in his grave if he heard this I'm out
Famous People Of Greek Descent
This list of famous people of Greek descent is loosely ranked by fame and popularity. Many famous people are of Greek descent. Some of them have a mixed heritage while others are 100 percent Greek. Celebrities of Greek descent have had successful careers in film, television, and sports. Several...
www.ranker.com
Though I gotta say, if I had to draw from that list, Jennifer Aniston, Maria Menounos, Dave Bautista, Zack Galifianakis, John Stamos, Ralph Macchio, and Jaime Lynn Seigler ain't too bad a pool. Not for a 200 million dollar production though. Damon totally should have a perm though
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What's he gonna say, "my brother's shit sucks, fuck that guy"?
I'm sure it's visually outstanding, however. Most of his work is.
Yeah, unless Poseidon himself walks out of the sea and says "Saw it, its was great, that's exactly how it all went down." I'm gonna take more reviews with a colossal grain of salt.
MaestroMike
Gold Member
He needs some brown contacts too maybe. he'll probably still look like some dude from Boston they should've went with Oscar Isaac he looks more Greek than Damon and probably could carry this he was great in duneThe reality is that there are NO bankable 'greek' actors that could carry this film at the level of funding it is getting.
Famous People Of Greek Descent
This list of famous people of Greek descent is loosely ranked by fame and popularity. Many famous people are of Greek descent. Some of them have a mixed heritage while others are 100 percent Greek. Celebrities of Greek descent have had successful careers in film, television, and sports. Several...
Though I gotta say, if I had to draw from that list, Jennifer Aniston, Maria Menounos, Dave Bautista, Zack Galifianakis, John Stamos, Ralph Macchio, and Jaime Lynn Seigler ain't too bad a pool. Not for a 200 million dollar production though. Damon totally should have a perm though
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
This isn't confirmed? So it could be a ploy to drum up publicity? I dunno man, I know the saying all publicity is good publicity but so far I ain't seeing anything remotely good about this movie, from the superhero like cheap costumes and now this alleged casting of Helen of Troy with a black woman (did they forget the shit that netflix got for pulling the same stunt with Cleopatra) I would've imagined the studio or Nolan would've come out and said something cause the only boat her face is launching is a rubber dingy full of Africans towards England...
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Oh come now, he was great as a native australian playing an american playing an australian playing a black guy.
Narratively though, how does an African playing a Spartan Queen even make sense? The Spartans were OBSESSED about class enforcement so the likelihood of a spartan marrying a non-spartan, much less a non-greek, is almost zero. There were just a few thousand of them in what would be today just a small area of a peninsula. Now there were periods where Sparta had to relax the rules a bit to replenish themselves after losing a lot of men, so they admitted the Parthenians, children born to Spartan WOMEN from non-spartan men. But "non-spartan" means still greek, I just can't imagine a scenario where a spartan woman hooks up with an "aithiopian" and that kid being admitted into spartan society as they were notoriously xenophobic. So the casting, if true, really belies "modern agenda" over historical understanding, archeological evidence, cultural legacy, and narrative consistency.
Now if Lupita was in a ton of massively popular sword and sorcery films with a huge fanbase such that her being Helen was a nod to the audience for a project like this, I could see doing it. But unless she has a big international draw that I'm unaware of, I don't think that's the reason. There is just a deliberate choice to make this as "worldly" as possible.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
The casting decision is retarded, this not even arguable.
If you want to adapt a referent of European culture be faithful to it or fuck off. You can't have it both ways.
Matt Damon is also a terrible pick. The character of Ulysses is the opposite of what he portrays in his movies.
House Atreides is actually from greek descent so this was accurate.
If you want to adapt a referent of European culture be faithful to it or fuck off. You can't have it both ways.
Matt Damon is also a terrible pick. The character of Ulysses is the opposite of what he portrays in his movies.
He needs some brown contacts too maybe. he'll probably still look like some dude from Boston they should've went with Oscar Isaac he looks more Greek than Damon and probably could carry this he was great in dune
House Atreides is actually from greek descent so this was accurate.
David_Android
Banned
The face that launched a thousand Somali pirate boats.
Unknown Soldier
Member
No way that's real. NO WAY.
Even if they had Troy be in Africa instead of Turkey, or some sort of Carthaginian outpost or whatever (still not black but so it goes), HELEN wasn't Trojan, so did she bounce outta Sparta with her lady guards as well?
David_Android
Banned
seriously dont like it dont watch it, in the end its just a movie that has been in production since years. its the same with games.
ill just find it weird that if they would do it the other way they outrage would be immense. so just make her her asian to piss everyone off.
no seriously it can still be a good movie, i doubt it but it can. im must glad i pretty much grew up in the golden age of media. just meme it and laugh instead of beeing angry.
ill just find it weird that if they would do it the other way they outrage would be immense. so just make her her asian to piss everyone off.
no seriously it can still be a good movie, i doubt it but it can. im must glad i pretty much grew up in the golden age of media. just meme it and laugh instead of beeing angry.
delirium trigger
Member
Someone told me about this the other day. Usually, I'm excited to go see a new Nolan movie but I think Hollywood movies are basically dead to me at this point. It's a shit industry full of degenerate clowns. Not going to support your attempt at rewriting history.
Stitch
Member
It's fake. Edited picture from black panther.
www.allocine.fr
Black Panther : Photo Danai Gurira, Florence Kasumba, Lupita Nyong'o
Découvrez cette photo (numéro 33 - Black Panther : Photo Danai Gurira, Florence Kasumba, Lupita Nyong'o) de Lupita Nyong'o sur les 68 photos de Lupita Nyong'o disponibles sur AlloCiné
www.allocine.fr
Unknown Soldier
Member
There's enough sources saying she is Helen that I don't really believe it can be otherwise. They are trying their hardest to hide it because of the backlash they would generate but there's so much smoke that it's getting pretty unlikely there isn't fire too
The fact there are NO official images of Helen the way there are for the other known casted characters is really really sus...
falconhoof
Member
I take it anyone can upload stuff to imdb and this is another fake shot.
