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[Dalek]

‘Y'all can't do nothing to me,' accused cop killer tells judge, using ‘sovereign citizens' defense

On social media, Markeith Loyd's persona — documented in dozens of Facebook Live videos — was as fluid as his latest mood. Sometimes, he was a down-to-earth, God-fearing boyfriend who was eagerly looking forward to fatherhood. Other times, he was a weightlifting, womanizing ”street legend" whose goal was to be on the television show ”America's Most Wanted."

More than a month after he was arrested and accused of killing his pregnant girlfriend and an Orlando police officer, Loyd made a court appearance this week in which he debuted another version of himself: Markeith Loyd, apparent sovereign citizen.

A far-right, antigovernment group whose adherents believe they're constitutionally exempt from U.S. laws, sovereign citizens have killed police officers, clogged courts with paperwork and refused to pay taxes.

In 2011, the FBI labeled it a ”domestic terrorist movement."

This week, Loyd — who has been charged with first-degree murder and attempted first-degree murder — appeared in an Orlando courtroom and refused to enter a guilty or innocent plea when asked to do so by Chief Judge Frederick J. Lauten of the 9th Judicial Circuit.

A heated exchange ensued, with Loyd interrupting Lauten and telling the judge that the government lacks jurisdiction to bring charges against him.

”For the record, I want to state that I am Markeith Loyd," Loyd told the judge. ”Flesh and blood. I'm a human being. I'm not a fictitious person. I'm not a corporation."

”And therefore, I am going to tell you the fact, I am in due court, I accept the charges' value," he added. ”And I want to use my UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) financial statement, my number, to write these charges off."

Loyd appeared to be under the impression that the court was responsible for leveling charges against him, but Lauten told him that the state of Florida — represented by the state attorneys office — had brought the charges against him.

”For the record, Mr. Loyd wants to talk about the UCC and corporate status, which is a position that certain citizens that are sometimes called sovereign citizens take in courts of law, oftentimes misguided," Lauten said. ”But it is not the first time the court has heard that position."

Loyd refused to enter a plea, telling the judge: ”Y'all can't do nothing to me."

Lauten entered a not-guilty plea on Loyd's behalf and tried to impress upon him the value of being represented by a lawyer during discovery, jury selection and ”the entire trial process." Though Loyd decided to represent himself, Lauten appointed the public defender's office as a standby lawyer for Loyd after determining that he was competent to represent himself, according to video footage recorded at the hearing.

Loyd is due back in court on March 20 for a status hearing.

His statements in the courtroom this week — as Lauten noted — included some of the hallmarks of typical sovereign citizen speech, such as attempting to distinguish himself from his ”corporate status" and trying to write the charges off using a financial statement.

Loyd's Facebook page makes no explicit mention of the sovereign belief system, but that doesn't mean he isn't immersed in the movement's ideas, according to Bob Paudert, a 35-year law enforcement veteran who trains police departments around the country on how to identify and avoid violent confrontations with sovereign citizens in their communities.

Judging the references in his statement, Paudert said, Loyd used the language of ”a hardcore sovereign" and speculated that he may have come into contact with the ideology in jail.

”There's plenty of sovereigns in jail," Paudert said. ”They're just like gangs. They're in prison as well, and once they get there, they try to recruit while they're incarcerated. It's not uncommon for people to become radicalized once they're behind bars."

So what did Loyd's statements mean?

Paudert said many sovereigns believe the U.S. government sells its citizens' future earnings to foreign investors when they are born. Adherents often believe the funds are secretly kept by the U.S. Treasury in a secret trust that is only accessible to those who opt out of their ”corporate" status, which splits them off from their flesh-and-blood self in the eyes of the government and keeps them subject to U.S. and international law, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. The amount of money sovereigns believe they're owed is based on their lifetime earning potential and can range from a few hundred thousand dollars to tens of millions, depending on the particular strain of sovereign precepts they follow, Paudert said.

”They believe that if you renounce your citizenship, then you can get into that account and draw out all the money that the government owes you," he added. ”It can all sound very unusual to people who are not familiar with their ideas."

Using information from government reports and the trials of tax protesters, the Southern Poverty Law Center estimated in 2011 that the number of people testing out sovereign techniques nationwide was about 300,000, with one-third of those being ”hardcore sovereign believers." Among the movement's best-known acolytes is Terry Nichols, who helped plan the Oklahoma City bombing, according to the FBI.

Almost two months ago, Loyd was working at a fast-food restaurant and expecting a child with his girlfriend Sade Dixon, whom he is accused of shooting Dec. 13, police said.

Loyd's co-workers at Texas Fried Chicken told the Orlando Sentinel in January that they never considered him violent and that there was ”nothing negative" to say about him.

”He was one of those guys you wanted to work with," a co-worker told the paper. ”He was always around to give a hand. We are heartbroken about all the families who lost loved ones."

 

[Acorn]

An eyepatch and everything. Just need a parrot and hat now.

 

[Dalek]

An eyepatch and everything. Just need a parrot and hat now.

I remember JB Smoove was a writer on SNL and he once pitched a skit about a villain who was so evil he wore two eyepatches.

 

[sooperkool]

I never understand the SovCit stance. They just end up in jail for very long times.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Punished Sovereign Citizen

A Man with his rights crushed by Fascists

 

[Robot Carnival]

so if someone killed a "sovereign citizen" on US soil, do they get charge at all?

 

[Acorn]

so if someone killed a "sovereign citizen" on US soil, do they get charge at all?

They get a unicorn delivered by a leprechaun.

 

[elrechazado]

There is a fringe on that flag, which makes this an Admiralty court, with no jurisdiction over me!

I loved/hated prosecuting these dudes. The internet has only made it spread faster.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I never understand the SovCit stance. They just end up in jail for very long times.

He's clearly mentally unstable or plain delusional.

 

[Acorn]

There is a fringe on that flag, which makes this an Admiralty court, with no jurisdiction over me!

I loved/hated prosecuting these dudes. The internet has only made it spread faster.

Share more please!

 

[Bubba_Sparks]

From my perspective, believing in Sovereign Citizen nonsense is a sign of mental illness. If you think you can just say a couple of magical incantations and the court will throw it's hands and go, "Oh well!" you're completely out of touch with reality.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

A far-right, antigovernment group whose adherents believe they’re constitutionally exempt from U.S. laws, sovereign citizens have killed police officers, clogged courts with paperwork and refused to pay taxes.

In 2011, the FBI labeled it a “domestic terrorist movement.”

“There’s plenty of sovereigns in jail,” Paudert said. “They’re just like gangs. They’re in prison as well, and once they get there, they try to recruit while they’re incarcerated. It’s not uncommon for people to become radicalized once they’re behind bars.”

Using information from government reports and the trials of tax protesters, the Southern Poverty Law Center estimated in 2011 that the number of people testing out sovereign techniques nationwide was about 300,000, with one-third of those being “hardcore sovereign believers.” Among the movement’s best-known acolytes is Terry Nichols, who helped plan the Oklahoma City bombing, according to the FBI.

I'm sure this is nothing to worry about.

 

[adj_noun]

edit: beaten

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I think this entire movement plays off the ill and uneducated. Or those who are incredibly gullible. All the different markings and ink colors to differentiate your status as a citizen. Thinking that some specific string of words will get you out of traffic tickets or being prosecuted for anything. It's something that sounds smart to incredibly stupid people. Like they've learned a secret legal language.

 

[elrechazado]

Share more please!

Hmm, how about 30-40 page handwritten motions filled with long rambling completely incorrect history of the US and the Constitution. Usually involved a narrative about how the united States of America is actually a corporate entity that was legally sold to the united Nations (usually dating this at some time well before the UN actually existed). And because of all this, no US Court has jurisdiction over them.

Another favorite was they all filed handwritten motions about how as sovereigns, they had granted themselves copyright on their own names. They'd then threaten you that all of the court documents containing their names were in violation of the copyright on their name, so the proceedings were illegal.

I'll try to remember more.

 

[Savitar]

Sovereign citizens really deserve no mercy, scum of the earth types they are.

 

[Acorn]

From my perspective, believing in Sovereign Citizen nonsense is a sign of mental illness. If you think you can just say a couple of magical incantations and the court will throw it's hands and go, "Oh well!" you're completely out of touch with reality.

Some of them are probably just dumb as shit and/or easily influenced young shutin idiots.

 

[Frozenprince]

I'm sure this is nothing to worry about.

Vast majority of them aren't dark enough to be a threat, no doubt.

 

[Bubba_Sparks]

I'm sure this is nothing to worry about.

There is a YouTube video of a Sovereign Citizen man and his 16 year old son murdering two cops who pull them over. They just light them up and even execute them point blank with AK-47s. All recorded from a truck drivers dasch cam as he sits behind them and witnesses the whole episode.

 

[Acorn]

Hmm, how about 30-40 page handwritten motions filled with long rambling completely incorrect history of the US and the Constitution. Usually involved a narrative about how the united States of America is actually a corporate entity that was legally sold to the united Nations (usually dating this at some time well before the UN actually existed). And because of all this, no US Court has jurisdiction over them.

Another favorite was they all filed handwritten motions about how as sovereigns, they had granted themselves copyright on their own names. They'd then threaten you that all of the court documents containing their names were in violation of the copyright on their name, so the proceedings were illegal.

I'll try to remember more.

Lol WTF? Is part of their strategy swamping the court with paperwork to get a deal or something?

 

[Hydrophobic]

Hmm, how about 30-40 page handwritten motions filled with long rambling completely incorrect history of the US and the Constitution. Usually involved a narrative about how the united States of America is actually a corporate entity that was legally sold to the united Nations (usually dating this at some time well before the UN actually existed). And because of all this, no US Court has jurisdiction over them.

Another favorite was they all filed handwritten motions about how as sovereigns, they had granted themselves copyright on their own names. They'd then threaten you that all of the court documents containing their names were in violation of the copyright on their name, so the proceedings were illegal.

I'll try to remember more.

Have you mentioned gold fringes on flags, which makes it a maritime court (or something)? Or the fact that supposedly their name in all capitol letters is a corporate entity registered in their name at birth so any legal documents that refer to them in all caps are not legally referring to them?

 

[BlueTsunami]

 

[Ogodei]

Some of it seems like a very theoretical form of protest, the idea that the basis of government itself is illegitimate and that the systems we set up are in violation of our natural rights, and are therefore void because our natural rights are both natural and unalienable.

But the line about having your "future earnings" sold off to foreign investors is ludicrous and sounds religious in nature.

 

[HStallion]

Eh, sort of. This dude was a little shit but he lost an eye because a cop cold clocked him with his gun over nothing. Fucking Prezbo

 

[elrechazado]

Lol WTF? Is part of their strategy swamping the court with paperwork to get a deal or something?

Have you mentioned gold fringes on flags, which makes it a maritime court (or something)? Or the fact that supposedly their name in all capitol letters is a corporate entity registered in their name at birth so any legal documents that refer to them in all caps are not legally referring to them?

Maritime flags yeah see my first post.

People need to understand that sovereign citizen isn't an ideology like Islamic fundamentalism or white supremacy. It's a belief in legalism as a tactic to avoid consequences used by the crazy, anti authority, radical, and stupid. That's why you get Terry Nichols far right types, radical black power types, but mostly just lifetime criminals. This shit gets passed around in jail and on the internet and morons think they can use "this one simple trick to avoid prosecution! Judges hate him!".

Here's a fun article about judge Posner going at it with one of these guys:

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/02/judge-posner-lights-into-pro-se-sovereign-citizen/

 

[Machine]

I'm not driving, I'm "traveling"!

 

[Hazmat]

He's getting life without parole or the death penalty, he can impotently whine that shit as long as he wants.

 

[HTupolev]

I'm not driving, I'm "traveling"!

I'm not sure what blows my mind more about this classic. That the decision it references explicitly states the opposite of what sovereign citizens think, or the blatantly obvious false mutual exclusion in the way it's typically stated. Or that, even if the stuff they're referencing actually backed them up, there wouldn't be any need to exclude the "driving."

Literally everything about the argument is silly nonsense. At no step of the way is anything about it even remotely coherent.

 

[Acorn]

Maritime flags yeah see my first post.

People need to understand that sovereign citizen isn't an ideology like Islamic fundamentalism or white supremacy. It's a belief in legalism as a tactic to avoid consequences used by the crazy, anti authority, radical, and stupid. That's why you get Terry Nichols far right types, radical black power types, but mostly just lifetime criminals. This shit gets passed around in jail and on the internet and morons think they can use "this one simple trick to avoid prosecution! Judges hate him!".

Here's a fun article about judge Posner going at it with one of these guys:

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/02/judge-posner-lights-into-pro-se-sovereign-citizen/

Interesting, thanks.

 

[RodanCeros]

Got to be a strong correlation between those with the Sovereign Citizen ideology and those that post "Better safe than sorry! I hereby revoke all use of my likeness and image etc etc" on Facebook

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

If they think they are exempt from the law they should be exempt from a trial and go straight to a firing squad.

 

[elrechazado]

Got to be a strong correlation between those with the Sovereign Citizen ideology and those that post "Better safe than sorry! I hereby revoke all use of my likeness and image etc etc" on Facebook

Yeah it's a symptom of the same kind of dumb "legalism as math/magic" that people fall for all the time.

 

[allenpergallon]

Thought dude was Slick Rick for a second.

Good luck with having nothing done to you.

 

[zeemumu]

Sovereign Snake


The article says he's convicted of killing his pregnant girlfriend, not a cop. Did he do both?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Sovereign Snake


The article says he's convicted of killing his pregnant girlfriend, not a cop. Did he do both?

Second paragraph:

More than a month after he was arrested and accused of killing his pregnant girlfriend and an Orlando police officer, Loyd made a court appearance this week in which he debuted another version of himself: Markeith Loyd, apparent sovereign citizen.

 

[zeemumu]

Second paragraph:

Ah okay

 

[MalcomiteX]

In 2011, the FBI labeled it a “domestic terrorist movement.”

You mean like the police?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

"Y'all can't do nothing to me"

Wanna bet?

 

[TalonJH]

I never understood how a person could really believe in sovereign citizens.

 

[Harothewanderer]

"An army without a nation." "A hero denied by his homeland."