LegendOfKage
Member
Are either of them also refusing to go along with the Brazil government censorship of speech?
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[TNYT] Brazil Blocks X After Musk Ignores Court Orders
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Are either of them also refusing to go along with the Brazil government censorship of speech?
Guilty_AI
Member
No clue, they're too small so we don't really hear about them. There's also the bubble effect since most going to them will be the ones that supports the current way of affairs and government, meaning no censorship to them.
Another thing that's popping off here is VPNs.
TheDreadLord
Member
It wasn’t about posts. Removing a post is in accordance with Brazilian law. However, the judge, as far as I can tell, ordered the removal of entire accounts, which violates the Brazilian Constitution and current legislation. He also threatened to arrest employees of X in Brazil, which created a situation that forced the company to close its Brazilian subsidiary, ultimately leading to the ban.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Other networks will increase the amount of users but - just like it happened time and time again - it won't reach the same level of engagement anymore. A lot of people will stop following others, won't bother to create accounts or just form some smaller communities and so on. Plus people will split among other networks, or form their groups in networks like Telegram and so on.
The problem is that nothing of it is relevant - Brazilian's government with Lula won't give a shit, judge is playing a king and international governments and institutions won't care either as Lula is left leaning guy. The decision has been made.
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Guilty_AI
Member
Understand that Musk's intention here is use Brazil as a case example in the US. He isn't trying to save Brazil, he's warning the US of what could happen to them if they continue as they are now.
The case with Moraes is perfect for this, he looks like a comic book villain and all his irregularities are plain as day, not to mention cases of clear authority abuse out of pure ego like what happened in Rome's airport.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
With USA situation is a bit different because for example California would be happy to block Twitter and it is has a lot of influence in states. Plus a lot of folks in USA don't support free speech anymore either.
The problem is that it does not matter if international institutions won't pick it up plus the media is happy to crack down on Twitter as they are losing people to Twitter. Plus most of the american media does not like Musk and democrats are especially against him. Just like a lot of laws strange laws are enacted to "protect the children", the same shit is happening "to protect women / minorities etc." but everything is gradually eroding the freedom of the society.
Granted historic processes are indicating that we are going back to middle ages in the current societal formation. Which is a shame but oh well. In the middle ages we had churches. This time we will have censorship under the guise of children protection and minority protection. I wonder if we will get a name for that. Shame people have replaced their freedom with security.
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Guilty_AI
Member
You're forgetting the crucial detail that regimes like ours or Venezuela completely wreck the economy. Just show any businessman in the US what Moraes pulled with Starlink (and the effects its already having) and you'll make him very scared of what could happen if such a person is allowed to gain any power.
i'd say the current era is a lot more similar to early 17th century. Many similar socio-economical parallels, as well as technological ones. Even the conflicts are very similar. Feudal systems wouldn't work today even if attempted, what we're facing is more of a warring period with decades worth of dragged-on conflicts, nations breaking apart and lots of small scale wars with a few medium-scale ones.
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Draugoth
Gold Member
It literally doesnt matter. If Musk wants X back, he needs to give in to the court demands
Kraz
Member
I read X users are at risk of a ban for typing "cis" among other harmless things. So any complaints from X or its supporters about freespeech are taken with skepticism. Although, I doubt such behavior on their part will lead to anything more than the abandonment of the platform if it persists or becomes more onerous, not the fall of civilization. X doesn't have that much influence except in the imagination of those that want it to in their fictions.
Rational, balanced minds realize they still have the freedom to talk about stuff elsewhere, understand that, scoff at X and don't lose think society is crumbling because of that. Maybe some flaws that could be adjusted.
To play coy for Socratic method, it's surprising to read that the political element you mentioned turned on him since Tesla received and benefited so much from their policies, and since they're suggested to be more environmentally orientated. Open to new ideas and electric cars.
Such a turn wouldn't happen for no reason, would it? Did he say anything against them? Or do you really think it just happened and there was nothing to provoke them into turning?
A lot of ideas about freedom did come from the Magna Carta. Certainly did help nations educate how to run a rules based order and safe currency. Something most nations that don't have a history with it have trouble adapting to.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
The Democrats are not doing anything different from what Maduro and other left-leaning governments have done. They print money, distribute checks, and provide funds to the poor—not enough to lift them out of poverty but sufficient to buy their loyalty. They bring in even more poor people (illegals) who work in low-paying jobs, ensuring they remain in poverty. They introduce regulations that make it difficult for anyone to afford anything, stir up public anger, and then push for laws that threaten property ownership. They bring more poor people into wealthy neighborhoods. In the end, everyone is poor but has unconditional loyalty to the government. Mix in some religion, and they hold onto power.
The USA has an advantage that other countries do not: they can spread their inflation across the world due to the dollar's importance in international trade. Otherwise, all those expenses on wars and paychecks would have wrecked the economy a long time ago
We have entered a historic phase characterized by the disintegration and dismantling of democratic institutions.
This is a significant issue because the contradictions between democracies and autocracies have been a driving force in the development of human civilization since the Renaissance. Now, as one becomes indistinguishable from the other, these contradictions disappear, leading civilization into a period of severe stagnation. It's akin to the Dark Ages of the Middle Ages, which followed the Roman Empire's failure to overcome the phase barrier between traditional economy and the emerging manufacturing system. The inability to combine collective labor with individual freedom, which was understandable given the ancient psyche, made this transition impossible.
Today, we face a similar situation. The vast ocean of individual freedom of development opened up by information technologies clashes sharply with the collective psyche of consumer society. People are incapable of self-limiting their consumption, which is essentially a measure of their personal responsibility in a world of unlimited choice.
It is no surprise that all proposed projects, such as the 'new normality,' suggest forcing people to limit their needs through various mechanisms (it doesn't matter which ones—whether it's the Chinese social credit system or Schwab's idea of using property and other benefits 'by subscription'). However, limiting consumption contradicts the core slogan of credit capitalism: 'Consume as much as possible,' and effectively buries it.
The elimination of democracy and democratic institutions also means the elimination of existing property rights and mechanisms to guarantee them. In effect, this period is becoming a reincarnation of serfdom. It will be very different from its previous version, but in essence, people will still be attached to something that will serve as the source of their vital resources. Instead of being tied to land, people will be tied to a certain social status/rank, marked either by a QR code, as seen during the pandemic, or by some other record in a general register. If someone does not enter this register and does not receive such a marker, it will mean their declassification.
It is possible that, just like in the Middle Ages, there will be locations where serfdom does not exist, and in one form or another, current institutions, though significantly transformed, will operate. But these locations will be limited, although, in the end, they, like medieval cities, will become the seeds of a new formation.
However, for now, everything is leading to current democracies rapidly erasing distinctions with autocratic regimes and quickly becoming fascist. And we are observing this in real time.
And as a bonus: the severe degradation of public education doesn't help either.
We are already reaching a point where the government is unhappy with the amount of influence Musk has over SpaceX, and there are some people eager to strip him of control over both SpaceX and Tesla.
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natjjohn
Member
He’s censored stuff on Twitter for the worst of the worst.
A Quick Look at this thread reads like a bunch of Musk fan fiction.
Kraz
Member
Fascism seems to be being fought against by Ukraine. With democracies stabilizing in response to the threat. Convictions for using the platform to incite with misinformation, like in England recently, contributing to fighting fascism and reducing it in Western democracies.
These are conspiracy theories barely suitable for junior fiction, not conclusions founded on any complex reality.
Tabloid Mark of the Beast repackaged. Faulty color revolution type thinking. The sort of thinking that leads fascists to believe X controls the way society goes.
People already have citizenship status and records this isn't something new. Limiting access for health concerns at enormous cost is different than doing it for reasons that would make financial sense in a dystopia that couldn't possible sustain it realistically.
More evidence needs to be seen and presented, but his behavior has seemed anti-Western, if that is the case and it goes through proper prosecution then he shouldn't be immune for some reason.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
It has already happened. People are losing jobs, money, and property, or getting jailed based on their social identity and posts. During COVID, we already faced restrictions on who could go where. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because freedoms are being lost. You just believe that you are the 'right one' and won't be affected.
Even in the UK, many government actions fail to solve anything. For example, people are praising Labour's resolution of protests regarding worker pay, but it will likely lead to the same outcome as in the Netherlands with public transportation (NS) after protests—salaries were raised, prices increased across the board, quality did not improve, and people bought 19% more cars in 2023 than the year before. But hey, at least we can pat ourselves on the back.
There are fundamental problems in Western society that won't be resolved without a period of dark ages. It will get worse before it gets better, whether you believe it or not.
But as you don't believe in that, there is no point in discussing that. Since 2000s, the society hasn't gained new freedoms, world has not become more peaceful, society hasn't become smarter.
Kraz
Member
Greed is terrible here right now. If there was any one factor causing problems, it's greed. Prices may have needed to go up for added burdens and supply issues, but never went down. It might've been helpful to have the foresight to know that legislation was needed to not be taken advantage of during the crisis, but it is free market capitalism and sometimes bad comes with good in the lessons. It's not communism or fascism.
To fail economically in my country a person had to try. Really try. Even still it's difficult, definitely more difficult than most other parts of the world. But that's another subject and gripe I have about those that complain about how hard they have it here from their position of immense privilege to launch themselves from.
If greed doesn't blind to let the corrupt take control from stabilizing growing economic legislators than things could settle with less hardships. However, this is getting far from the subject of X and Brazil.
Guilty_AI
Member
If you wanna make Roman history comparisons, a much more similar period to today would be Rome's transition from republic to empire, not its fall. More specifically, the earlier stages with the two major political parties in Rome refusing to recognize the other's legitimacy, leading to struggles, death of compromise and the eventual rise of military dictators over the next decades.
Also, the idea that the dark ages are this somber and stagnated period is a myth.
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thefool
Member
Mate, don't know what to tell you.
This is the same lunatic lefties pushing for their authoritarians world views.
As it stands, there's very little we can do, institutions and mainstream media have been completely taken over by similar views, the only path moving forward is vote and reform.
ManaByte
Gold Member
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