MultiCore
Member
I have a hunch they would only show numbers like that to get a rise out of their base, and encourage them to campaign in the opposite direction.
Maybe that's just me though.
I like your idea. Let's start a campaign about not bringing guns to school and shooting your classmates. We could save 4.38 lives per year.
ldn'
But why are we just looking at mass school shootings? Or school shootings? What about shootings in general?
ldn'
Why wouldn't homicides of any kind count? People still lose friends or family members, whether they are students in school or otherwise. What about those injured, or seriously wounded?
Here's an article that I feel puts things in perspective.
...
In fact, between 2001 and 2011, far more people have died on average each year due to firearms than all terrorist attacks on US soil: in this period, over 113,850 have died from firearm-related incidents against 5,170 deaths due to terrorist attacks, including 9-11 (without taking 9-11 into account, the number of casualties would be 310).
...
These statistics do not include suicide rates or self-harm.
But gun-rights supporters zeroed on in a few statements to make their case. One related to the defensive use of guns. The New American Magazine article noted that "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008."
So it would appear the "good use" of guns outweighs the "bad use." That may be true, except the study says all of those statistics are in dispute -- creating, in the study authors' eyes, a research imperative.
The study (available as a PDF) calls the defensive use of guns by crime victims "a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed." While it might be as high as 3 million defensive uses of guns each year, some scholars point to the much lower estimate of 108,000 times a year. "The variation in these numbers remains a controversy in the field," the study notes.
Research I've read doesn't put legal guns and owners at fault.ldn'
But why are we just looking at mass school shootings? Or school shootings? What about shootings in general?
Why wouldn't homicides of any kind count? People still lose friends or family members, whether they are students in school or otherwise. What about those injured, or seriously wounded?
Here's an article that I feel puts things in perspective.
For example, according to Politifact, between 1968 and 2011 there were 1.4 million firearm-related deaths, which is 200,000 more casualties than every single American conflict from the War of Independence to the Iraq War.
11,385 people have died on average annually in firearm incidents in the US between 2001 and 2011, according to the US Department of Justice and the Council on Foreign Affairs.
In fact, between 2001 and 2011, far more people have died on average each year due to firearms than all terrorist attacks on US soil: in this period, over 113,850 have died from firearm-related incidents against 5,170 deaths due to terrorist attacks, including 9-11 (without taking 9-11 into account, the number of casualties would be 310).
According to an academic research paper available through the National Center for Biotechnology Information, among non-lethal firearm injuries, 48,534 were wounded through intentional assault, and 11,529 were unintentional.
These statistics do not include suicide rates or self-harm.
Now about your other premise, I feel we need to be clear that there is a difference between texting-while-driving and distracted driving. They are not one and the same.
Distracted driving could be due to more than just texting-while-driving; the CDC lists various reasons, including eating, using a GPS, or even just daydreaming as causes attributable to distracted driving.
According to the NHTSA, In 2015, there were a total of 32,166 fatal crashes in the United States involving 48,613 drivers. As a result of those fatal crashes, 35,092 people were killed. Roughly 10% of that number is due to distracted driving.
As for incidents directly attributed to cell-phone distraction, during this same period, there were 442 crashes which resulted in 476 fatalities.
Here's an idea, how about putting some money into mental health? Seems like Republicans love to blame these (white) shootings on it, but never actually fund it.
Because this thread and these marches are happening in response to a mass school shooting, and the growing concern is school shootings.
Okay, let's talk more numbers. Here's a fairly anti-gun article from an arguably anti-gun source.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pletely-misunderstand/?utm_term=.4889fe9776b9
The number you gave was 113,850 dead in ten years, not including suicide or self-harm. That's 11,385 per year.
The CDC, in a study the NRA apparently didn't even want done, found that between 500,000 to 3 million examples of defensive gun use happen every year. Or, we could even go with the number that "some scholars" point to--real professional journalism there, Washington Post*--108,000 times per year.
At least as many as 108,000 victims saved by guns (potentially 3 million) saved by guns per year, to 11,385 lives taken by guns per year.
* "Some scholars?" Who? When the Washington Post heard that good journalists protect their sources, I don't think they understood what that means. This feels like Fox News saying, "well some scientists don't even think global warming is real!" WHO?
Research I've read doesn't put legal guns and owners at fault.
1. That between 3 to 11% of criminals are using guns they legally purchased.
2. That legal guns are used in self defense 500,000 to 3 million times every year.
The effect of bans, background checks, mental health checks, or gun registrations will be non existent. Since those criminals aren't using legal guns. So new laws will not bother them.
It would most likely decrease suicide rates. I think 60% of all gun death in USA is suicide.
M13 gang coming from Mexico.
This is a poor use of information because people get their guns from outside the city limits, and from other states, and traffic them into Chicago.
If harsh gun regulation comes you don't think the same thing will happen except for the whole country?
If harsh gun regulation comes you don't think the same thing will happen except for the whole country?
You are a smart person and I know you can think your way through this. If I needed to get a handgun in Canada right now I don't know where to go. My guess is that I'd have to go talk to someone..(who?) down on the Downtown Eastside, which is the poorest more drug addled and grossest area of Canada. I'm guessing after I talk to enough people I'm either going to be thought of as being a cop, or maybe be pointed to a heroine seller who will probably point me towards some sketchy dude in some shithole apartment. From that point I'm guessing I'm going to get worked over or maybe pay someone for some kind of info that might lead me toward another sketchy Hell's Angel where there is a way higher chance they will think I'm a cop, get worked over, or possibly fucking killed. If I survive all of this I'm likely going to have to pull out a couple grand for the privilege to finally get a gun that if I'm found with it on my person I'm going to jail. Now, who not already a criminal is going to go through this? You've made buying guns so easy in the US that you don't have to go through this danger inducing episode.If harsh gun regulation comes you don't think the same thing will happen except for the whole country?
What shit hole part of the country are you living in where 3 million people are defending themselves with firearms?
If these numbers are even remotely true this makes the US look like some sort of Mad Max hell scape. My town of 100,000 has had two murders in 20 years.
In fact, between 2001 and 2011, far more people have died on average each year due to firearms than all terrorist attacks on US soil: in this period, over 113,850 have died from firearm-related incidents against 5,170 deaths due to terrorist attacks, including 9-11 (without taking 9-11 into account, the number of casualties would be 310).
They might not be able to remove all the guns but they could remove the bullets
Okay, two murders, but how many people in your town defended themselves from violent crime? Because that's what we're talking about.
We're also probably talking about a lot of situations where a gun wasn't actually fired, because you don't always need to shoot someone to defend yourself with a gun.
Consider for a second what it takes to go from outside a city to inside a city and then what it (generally) takes to get into a country. The entire Chicago meme is pretty tiring at this point.If harsh gun regulation comes you don't think the same thing will happen except for the whole country?
Depends on what it is. What's the regulation(s)? It's extremely easy to get an illegal gun in chicago, I used to find ditched ones in alleyways often enough when I grew up there. Imagine if I was in a gang, how easy it would have been because the supply is infinite.
All of that can change with harsh regulations.
Because of the perceived end goal of anti gun groups. It isn't looked as a meet in the middle thing.I never understood why they are so against the gun control, I mean...preventing psycos, people with criminal records, thieves, etc get a gun. Isn't it common sense to prevent bad people to have a gun?
On other hand...Common sense and USA in the same line....I mean...they voted TRUMP.
Cause kids are dying because of your 'right', which you've hijacked and warped beyond what the actual amendment is for.
People die from drunk driving, how about banning alcohol?
Reasonable to compare imo.Are you comparing accidents caused because a person decided to drive under the effects of alcohol (or a drug) with ASSASSINATION of KIDS using guns at schools?
Reasonable to compare imo.
Both are taking lives of innocent people. Both are done by very selfish and hateful people. Both are done by people not right in the head.
Lobbyist? Yes. They fight legalization of marijuana because it could effect their profits for example. I can't think of a big money industry that doesn't fight to change laws or fight to not change if it's for the benefit of their money.Does alcohol industry have an NRA equivilent do you know?
People die from drunk driving, how about banning alcohol?
I was watching one of the parkland students giving a speech and she went on about how her AP politics teacher says that whenever she hears about gun rights she just thinks 'me me me' or something like that. Totalitarians always attack people as 'selfish' when they want to take away their rights. I saw a picture again of her in the new protests and she was wearing a cuban flag on her jacket/top. Turns out her father was from cuba. Instead of honoring the flag of the country that gave her father a home when he escaped totalitarianism, she honors the marxist shithole he escaped from. This is America's future, it's pretty much done really.
Reasonable to compare imo.
Both are taking lives of innocent people. Both are done by very selfish and hateful people. Both are done by people not right in the head.
Disagree. While I understand that a drunk driver isn't intending to murder someone, they do know before had what can happen... and don't care before taking a drink. The selfish mindset is very comparable imo.One is done unwillingly and because of a person's negligence, the other person WANTED to kill people. Not reasonable to compare.
The selfish mindset is very comparable imo.
Fuck the world. I only think of me. The mindset of both people. IMOAnd in what reality a selfish mindset based on over confidence is comparable to someone that wants to kill people? Just now you are saying a 18 years old idiot that goes out with his friends, gets drunk and has a car accident is comparable to a guy that grabs an Assault Rifle and starts shooting at kids inside of a School. I just don't get your way of thinking.
Fuck the world. I only think of me. The mindset of both people. IMO
ok.That was the exact mindset I had when I left my previous job in the moment when they needed me the most for another that's best paid and has more to do with my degree (chemistry). So I have the mindset of a terrorist that would get an AR and make a School Shooting...cool.
I dunno....close to none? It would certainly be huge news if it happened and I can't remember the last time in 10 years where something like that happened.
Seriously... is it even possible to imagine that there are places in the US that have super super low gun ownership and super super low crime? We generally behave ourselves without being held at gunpoint. It's like we are a civilized first world country!
I know that's not a reality for everyone, but this is what this march is for. To get the US to a modern place with gun violence like 600 million other people in the world enjoy.
the March for Our Lives showcased impassioned teens calling on Congress to enact stricter gun-control laws to end the nation’s two-decade stretch of campus shootings.
Spoken like a guy who has no idea what context is and refuses to look up the definition of it.
This in particular would help a great deal IMO. It would not by any means make the gun problem go away, and might even cause an increase into crimes whose motive is getting money to spend on drugs. But it would reduce the profit behind many gun crimes, while freeing up massive financial and human resources to then focus on things like mental health and actually investigating report after report that someone is about to explode. It would also generate huge tax revenues for things like weed, which people would barely bat an eye at when paying. Shame no one has the political capital and intestinal fortitude to push this through.Or with neutering the gangs by ending the war on drugs.
Lobbyist? Yes. They fight legalization of marijuana because it could effect their profits for example. I can't think of a big money industry that doesn't fight to change laws or fight to not change if it's for the benefit of their money.
When a drunk driver kills someone we don't go dammit Miller Brewing Company. We rightfully blame the dumbs driver. The criminal. If we did blame alcohol or it's makers, we would see a NRA type group spring up.
Does alcohol industry have an NRA equivilent do you know?
someone came to counter protest the students protesting for gun change with an almost military-like vehicle. I have no idea what their intentions were, but I'm going to guess they were trying to invoke fear.
someone came to counter protest the students protesting for gun change with an almost military-like vehicle. I have no idea what their intentions were, but I'm going to guess they were trying to invoke fear.
Or, you know, it's the armored vehicle they use to safely transport the arms they sell considering the company named emblazoned on it.
Or, you know, it's the armored vehicle they use to safely transport the arms they sell considering the company named emblazoned on it.
I think Occam's Razor covers that.
You know what, let's play this "Anecdotal Photo Extrapolation" game you folks love to play. What about this?
Obviously this man plans to kill a bunch of gun owners and pry their gun from their cold, dead hands. He is even wearing a parka in spring. . .utterly nefarious! He must have a bulletproof vest underneath to aid in his scheme. And under his beanie is a tactical helmet! He obviously intends to incite fear in his opponents.