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“Getting Good” and how developers can help us get there

MagusMajul

Member
The phrase "Get good" has become a common retort among gamers today. It's often directed at complaints from inexperienced or casual players who lack the skill or determination to persevere through challenging games, particularly those from FromSoftware. Personally, I never found FromSoftware games too challenging, but I can understand how someone new to gaming or those accustomed to MMOs and MOBAs—where luck and gear often outweigh skill—might struggle.

FromSoftware games are renowned for their intimidating yet compelling design. Unlike many titles that overwhelm players with mundane tutorials—like "Press A to jump over a log" or "Press Start and A to equip, B to unequip a weapon"—FromSoftware takes a different approach. A glaring example of an overly intrusive tutorial is Alan Wake, where a disembodied voice breaks the fourth wall to deliver a tedious tutorial. I found this not only boring but a complete waste of time, leading me to abandon the game. Considering Alan Wake is an M-rated title, the developers should expect players to be mature enough to navigate basic controls. If I encounter difficulties, I can consult the game manual.

In contrast, FromSoftware games steadily guide players through their tutorial sections. While the enemies are challenging and can kill you if you're not careful, there's enough leeway to funnel them into narrow corridors, isolate them in bushes, stealth kill them, or simply evade them. Ranged enemies are usually positioned on high ledges or stairwells in these early areas, teaching players to dodge and counter ranged attacks. Ambushes by enemies serve as a lesson to always stay vigilant. Early bosses, though seemingly insurmountable at first, offer a profound sense of catharsis once defeated. In these initial stages, players are gradually introduced to the game's mechanics, their abilities, and the threats posed by enemies. This methodical progression is a hallmark of FromSoftware's design, consistently elevating the challenge and hooking players as they press onward, despite the anxiety and perceived threats.

My ideal Dead Space game would take place on an open-world spaceship. Initially, the player would learn the “rules of the game” through predictable, scripted environments and events. Then, they’d be thrust into a spaceship where anything could happen. Imagine sixty different types of enemies, each operating through emergent behavior or controlled by an “AI Overlord” that manages the mutants like a player in an RTS game. The player would have access to fifty different weapon varieties—because the more options a player has in the sandbox, the greater the replayability. As the player ventures deeper into the ship, the AI would introduce increasingly complex obstacles, forcing them to evolve their strategies and adapt to ever-changing circumstances.

Human NPCs would also be present on the ship—some friendly, like fellow engineers and survivors, others hostile, like cultists and military personnel. These NPCs would operate through emergent, non-scripted behavior, allowing for dynamic interactions. Perhaps you could recruit them to fight alongside you against the monsters or even pit them against each other. The more compelling a game’s mechanics, AI, and options, the more players are encouraged to adapt, think creatively, and ultimately, get good.

In conclusion, I believe the real reason gamers get frustrated with challenging games and give up is that they feel they lack sufficient options. They perceive the tools provided by the developers as too limited. However, the more dynamics and choices presented to the player, the more they are encouraged to think critically and experiment. The “aha” moment arrives when the crazy plan they devised is just crazy enough to work. This is the proper motivation to not only get good but to get better.
 

RagnarokIV

Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Didnt Read Lol Storm Trooper GIF
 

Ultros

Banned
The phrase "Get good" has become a common retort among gamers today. It's often directed at complaints from inexperienced or casual players who lack the skill or determination to persevere through challenging games, particularly those from FromSoftware. Personally, I never found FromSoftware games too challenging, but I can understand how someone new to gaming or those accustomed to MMOs and MOBAs—where luck and gear often outweigh skill—might struggle.

FromSoftware games are renowned for their intimidating yet compelling design. Unlike many titles that overwhelm players with mundane tutorials—like "Press A to jump over a log" or "Press Start and A to equip, B to unequip a weapon"—FromSoftware takes a different approach. A glaring example of an overly intrusive tutorial is Alan Wake, where a disembodied voice breaks the fourth wall to deliver a tedious tutorial. I found this not only boring but a complete waste of time, leading me to abandon the game. Considering Alan Wake is an M-rated title, the developers should expect players to be mature enough to navigate basic controls. If I encounter difficulties, I can consult the game manual.

In contrast, FromSoftware games steadily guide players through their tutorial sections. While the enemies are challenging and can kill you if you're not careful, there's enough leeway to funnel them into narrow corridors, isolate them in bushes, stealth kill them, or simply evade them. Ranged enemies are usually positioned on high ledges or stairwells in these early areas, teaching players to dodge and counter ranged attacks. Ambushes by enemies serve as a lesson to always stay vigilant. Early bosses, though seemingly insurmountable at first, offer a profound sense of catharsis once defeated. In these initial stages, players are gradually introduced to the game's mechanics, their abilities, and the threats posed by enemies. This methodical progression is a hallmark of FromSoftware's design, consistently elevating the challenge and hooking players as they press onward, despite the anxiety and perceived threats.

My ideal Dead Space game would take place on an open-world spaceship. Initially, the player would learn the “rules of the game” through predictable, scripted environments and events. Then, they’d be thrust into a spaceship where anything could happen. Imagine sixty different types of enemies, each operating through emergent behavior or controlled by an “AI Overlord” that manages the mutants like a player in an RTS game. The player would have access to fifty different weapon varieties—because the more options a player has in the sandbox, the greater the replayability. As the player ventures deeper into the ship, the AI would introduce increasingly complex obstacles, forcing them to evolve their strategies and adapt to ever-changing circumstances.

Human NPCs would also be present on the ship—some friendly, like fellow engineers and survivors, others hostile, like cultists and military personnel. These NPCs would operate through emergent, non-scripted behavior, allowing for dynamic interactions. Perhaps you could recruit them to fight alongside you against the monsters or even pit them against each other. The more compelling a game’s mechanics, AI, and options, the more players are encouraged to adapt, think creatively, and ultimately, get good.

In conclusion, I believe the real reason gamers get frustrated with challenging games and give up is that they feel they lack sufficient options. They perceive the tools provided by the developers as too limited. However, the more dynamics and choices presented to the player, the more they are encouraged to think critically and experiment. The “aha” moment arrives when the crazy plan they devised is just crazy enough to work. This is the proper motivation to not only get good but to get better.
Seems like it's about time for you to "git gud"
 

ssringo

Member
In conclusion, I believe the real reason gamers get frustrated with challenging games and give up is that they feel they lack sufficient options.
I think this is certainly a big part of it, though not necessarily options in combat. Being able to go elsewhere and do other things instead of being locked into a particularly difficult area/fight helps when faced with something that seems overwhelming. Sometimes all a person needs is to sit back and relax and they can't do that if their only option is to keep throwing themselves at a wall. I'd imagine they're more likely to just give up and play something else and with the slew of game releases every day it's very possible they never return. Having the option to keep playing but progressing in a different area keeps them engaged and learning; even if it's just getting more comfortable with the gameplay.

Of course that doesn't really help with strictly linear games but in those instances the devs will need to spend more effort balancing encounters and progression. They could also just have the mindset of "this is the difficulty, #dealwithit" and while that mindset will resonate with certain games, it won't necessarily lead to a successful game.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
The player would have access to fifty different weapon varieties—because the more options a player has in the sandbox, the greater the replayability
More doesn't always mean better. I'd rather have less options but each one being meaningful and unique, instead of 50 different ones. That shit would make my head explode.

In conclusion, I believe the real reason gamers get frustrated with challenging games and give up is that they feel they lack sufficient options
Nah, I dunno man. I think gamers today get frustrated so fast because we live in a world of "I want this and I want it now by making the least possible ammount of effort". Many hard games don't really give you that many options yet they are still very fun to play once you master them.
 

March Climber

Gold Member
In conclusion, I believe the real reason gamers get frustrated with challenging games and give up is that they feel they lack sufficient options. They perceive the tools provided by the developers as too limited.
Newer big games have been better about this to a decent degree. Quite a few older games used to be brutal with 'do things our way or never win the game'. A lot of older gamers have carried this mentality into the newer generations of difficult games (even though they have changed how they are interacted with), which is why they still look at things in that rigid way, for example seeing anything but melee in a soulslike as the easy route, even though the games themselves and the director included are encouraging creativity.

You make good points otherwise OP.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
In conclusion, I believe the real reason gamers get frustrated with challenging games and give up is that they feel they lack sufficient options. They perceive the tools provided by the developers as too limited.
God bless mods and trainers.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The phrase "Get good" has become a common retort among gamers today. It's often directed at complaints from inexperienced or casual players who lack the skill or determination to persevere through challenging games, particularly those from FromSoftware. Personally, I never found FromSoftware games too challenging, but I can understand how someone new to gaming or those accustomed to MMOs and MOBAs—where luck and gear often outweigh skill—might struggle.
MOBAs take infinitely more skills than Souls games. The truth is, the real skills in games is generally displayed in multiplayer games. Fighters, fps, strategy, mobas, racers, etc. From scrubs may think they're skilled owning trash mobs and predictable bosses, but a lot of games' skills ceiling go comically higher than whatever Ongbal or LetMeSolo her can do owning computer-controlled bosses.
 
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MagusMajul

Member
Newer big games have been better about this to a decent degree. Quite a few older games used to be brutal with 'do things our way or never win the game'. A lot of older gamers have carried this mentality into the newer generations of difficult games (even though they have changed how they are interacted with), which is why they still look at things in that rigid way, for example seeing anything but melee in a soulslike as the easy route, even though the games themselves and the director included are encouraging creativity.

You make good points otherwise OP.
I always disliked all the scripted scenes in half life 2. Particularly the parts in Episode 1 where you had to get alex to reprogram the roller mines so that you could throw them back at the combine. It's like "play the game like a good boy the way we wanted you to". For this reason I always though Far Cry was a much better games for it's open world dynamics. I was quit disappointed in half life 2 I was expecting it to be open world city shooter.
 

MagusMajul

Member
MOBAs take infinitely more skills than Souls games. The truth is, the real skills in games is generally displayed in multiplayer games. Fighters, fps, strategy, mobas, racers, etc. From scrubs may think they're skilled owning trash mobs and predictable bosses, but a lot of games' skills ceiling go comically higher than whatever Ongbal or LetMeSolo her can do owning computer-controlled bosses.
That's a fair point for RTS games, they are the most egregious examples. Their single player campaigns don't prepare them for multiplayer as they rely on scripted events and game mechanics that are not apart of the online experience. I also think that each faction in an rts game should have about 200 unique units as opposed to the 20 or so in star-craft. This encourages experimentation and replay ability. The more options a player has the better. Look at warhammer games as an example
 
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Sekiro is the pinnacle of this. There is no enemy scaling, no amount of grinding to level up your character to one shot a boss that can help you… It’s a game where you get better with time, you pick up the mechanics, recognize the patterns, and adapt to the environment. Sure you get new tools and abilities, but that’s just to add variety to the game.

By the time you beat the game, you feel like you’ve grown as a player, like you’re truly honed your skills as a Shinobi. Amazing game.
 
MOBAs take infinitely more skills than Souls games. The truth is, the real skills in games is generally displayed in multiplayer games. Fighters, fps, strategy, mobas, racers, etc. From scrubs may think they're skilled owning trash mobs and predictable bosses, but a lot of games' skills ceiling go comically higher than whatever Ongbal or LetMeSolo her can do owning computer-controlled bosses.

Different skills and I don’t believe one is necessarily better than the other.

RTS games take more skill than MOBA, but you also usually have to have lots of APM… then they’re turn based strategy, which don’t need high APM…

Games like Counterstrike require strategy and fine motor skills. But so does Sekiro. If you’re good at Sekiro you’re probably going to be good at a lot of games. Sure, it’s scripted but beating the bosses perfectly is no easy feat.

The problem is few games are designed for pure competitiveness now. With advents such as SBMM, games are developed for “the experience” as opposed to being a pure skills based competition. The goal is for everyone to have fun (meaning you win half the games and lose half the games). Look at COD4 vs MW3 of present.
 
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